Pyromancer's Puissance change

[Euclid.2517]

> Pyromancer's Puissance is getting a few changes focused toward group support and burst damage.

> Pyromancer's Puissance: In addition to granting might for each ability used while in fire attunement, this trait will now trigger Flame Expulsion when leaving fire attunement or finishing a fire overload.

> Flame Expulsion: After a brief delay, the elementalist releases a fiery explosion at their location that removes up to 10 stacks of might from them. Allies are granted might for 15 seconds based on the amount of might that was removed, while the damage of the explosion is increased by 10% per stack removed.

 

So I just tested.. The Flame Expulsion won't apply might to elementalist itself.

 

But now I am confused. Do "group support" tempest lacks might output? I don't think so. It easily gives 25 stack of might.

 

Overload fire gives 20 stack might, with various blast and trait. Also **heat sync** is one of the best group might skill in game. (Surprised, since elementalist usually get worst thing in game)

 

If you truly want to make support elementalist better, give more **group stability** access, instead of the stability from earth trait, which is super short and only one stack. And I am not asking for **quickness** or **alacrity** here.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

Weird, isn't it? It's like somebody who doesn't know anything about elementalist and only plays raids came up with this nonsense.

[Euclid.2517]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Weird, isn't it? It's like somebody who doesn't know anything about elementalist and only plays raids came up with this nonsense.

 

It also don't make sense for raid situation :'( Since tempest already give **10-man** 25 stacks of might easily without this change.

[Pocky.3159]

Cool; awesome, just as bad as we though then!

 

It always feels *so great* to be right about this kind of thing. . .

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Its a buff for support tempest in WvW.

 

You dont have use for the might you get yourself and from other players.

 

This lets you throw it back at them.

 

Also nice to have a more usefull GM in Fire.

 

Blind on burn is good but this is better.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Its a buff for support tempest in WvW.

>

> You dont have use for the might you get yourself and from other players.

>

> This lets you throw it back at them.

>

> Also nice to have a more usefull GM in Fire.

>

> Blind on burn is nice but this is better.

 

It's nice for one build. It's pretty pointless for most others, in particular condi builds and solo players. It's just a bad design all around and they took away a better design to make it happen. This is what we waited for. Not good.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Weird, isn't it? It's like somebody who doesn't know anything about elementalist and only plays raids came up with this nonsense.

 

Raiders know usually more about pve than open world players. that trait is just useless. too low dmg for pvp gimmick builds and removing 300power is just not worth it.

[Shiyo.3578]

Why was dev time and resources wasted on this? Tempest isn't played in PvE and has zero issues stacking might in PvE. PvP tempest never stacks might as the duration is too low , does this actually have a use in WvW?

 

PvE Tempest needs alacrity or quickness to become relevant as a support.

WvW no idea.

PvP tempest is good already.

 

[Blocki.4931]

It's an interesting gameplay mechanic, that's all. There is no issue stacking Might, but that doesn't detract from having a new mechanic you could or could not use if you want to.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Idk I sorta like it for condi weaver in pvp. Going in and out of fire constantly just keeps triggering it. But I just don't get why fire is the only traitline they ever touch, and it's always some wonky shit like this where there wasn't a need for a change but they decided they wanted newer stuff. I dig it because I like new stuff, but how about you go and use that creativity on stuff like arcane and earth ya turkeys.

[kurosy.1384]

It deos have a good use in wvw for Tempest support. Tempest supp is always on the verge of dropping out of what's considered convenient, in wvw zerg and guilds. It's always like "yeah it's good but X class can do it better", so i always wait for that little thing that could assure a solid spot in those groups. I'm not good at judging on these things but the new trait really seems to work great for now. But i do agree, it's a useless trait outside of organized (wvw) reality. I also play raid content and tempest can already give 25 stacks up to 10 ppl easily. Maybe it could be useful as an extra utility for those rare cases where warhorn is not used, it needs to be explored a bit further imho. The mech is interesting indeed. I really apreciated that stack reduction to 8 on the Power Overwhelming trait as a giveback.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Why was dev time and resources wasted on this? Tempest isn't played in PvE and has zero issues stacking might in PvE. PvP tempest never stacks might as the duration is too low , does this actually have a use in WvW?

>

> PvE Tempest needs alacrity or quickness to become relevant as a support.

> WvW no idea.

> PvP tempest is good already.

>

 

In WvW yes. But thats because, before that change, you used the fire traitline just for the condi clear on aura.

 

The rest was just filler.

 

Now you have a (more) usefull GM trait.

 

Tempest can now give other people the might you dont need.

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Good job then. Buff unnecessarily Tempest with a CORE TRAIT and cripple every other builds / specs. :flushed:

 

Next patch : Fresh-air Tempest so strong in pvp, we will nerf the fresh air trait in CORE AIR to be sure every specs won't play it anywhere.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Why was dev time and resources wasted on this? Tempest isn't played in PvE and has zero issues stacking might in PvE. PvP tempest never stacks might as the duration is too low , does this actually have a use in WvW?

>

> PvE Tempest needs alacrity or quickness to become relevant as a support.

> WvW no idea.

> PvP tempest is good already.

>

 

Doubt it would be used in WvW other classes can give might much easier, and blinding on burn is better I feel

[Zeesh.7286]

I don't know how this helps Tempests in WvW either. We're not going to replace scrappers and firebrands because the stability, stealth, cleanses, blocks +everything else that these two bring far far outweighs whatever benefits a tempest gives. Someone in the forums once posted detailed numbers to prove that tempests cleanse and heal more than FB and Scrappers but again, the problem is that Stability is just far more important and stealth gyros give scrappers an edge for zergs and with the predicted necro heavy zergs coming back in play I don't think Tempest supports will be valued as much as they were. I've seen a lot of the times team comps for Tags even go for 2 Firebrands because Stability is just that much more important. Like I guess its better than nothing to give out might and since the other trait wasn't doing much before all but is it worth the Nerf for solo play?

[solemn.9670]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> Idk I sorta like it for condi weaver in pvp. Going in and out of fire constantly just keeps triggering it. But I just don't get why fire is the only traitline they ever touch, and it's always some wonky kitten like this where there wasn't a need for a change but they decided they wanted newer stuff. I dig it because I like new stuff, but how about you go and use that creativity on stuff like arcane and earth ya turkeys.

 

Word

[Face Eater.6179]

so they see fit to nerf Fire but do nothing to improve arcane.

[Helicity.3416]

What really annoys me is that this is literally the only skill in the game that says "allies" and _excludes you_ AFAIK.

[steki.1478]

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> What really annoys me is that this is literally the only skill in the game that says "allies" and _excludes you_ AFAIK.

 

Let's report it as a bug and hope for the best lol

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> What really annoys me is that this is literally the only skill in the game that says "allies" and _excludes you_ AFAIK.

 

No, there is at least Communal Defenses.

If we would got might back, then it would be a straight buff on an already strong trait.

 

I have that feeling that balance in this game is one of the worst I have seen. No discussion between devs and players and even when they do, they don't change their mind. See Removal of falling damage trait. They acknowledged it was important for us, yet they removed them.

7 months after, we are still stuck with a very underwhelming trait... Maybe they will start buffing those traits in 2 years!

[Antipode.7830]

So wait, this is a no icd fire trait, yeah? This feels more like a small scale weaver trait than a tempest trait. I haven’t played with it yet, but this looks like an ele take on Phalanx Strength, and I could see a weird feedback loop with a warrior running PS in small scale WvW or something, where they keep feeding you might to use to burn and re-feed them might for the healing and endurance regen. They make you burst more/harder, and you heal them more, and you don’t have to actually run anything other than what weaver tends to run in WvW for this to actually work out half-way decently.

 

Just a weird thought.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Antipode.7830" said:

> So wait, this is a no icd fire trait, yeah? This feels more like a small scale weaver trait than a tempest trait. I haven’t played with it yet, but this looks like an ele take on Phalanx Strength, and I could see a weird feedback loop with a warrior running PS in small scale WvW or something, where they keep feeding you might to use to burn and re-feed them might for the healing and endurance regen. They make you burst more/harder, and you heal them more, and you don’t have to actually run anything other than what weaver tends to run in WvW for this to actually work out half-way decently.

>

> Just a weird thought.

 

I don't think generating the 10 stack might is a problem for fire weavers. It's very easy to stack that much between the might from PP, combo blasts and fire shield transmutes. You're limited by how quickly you can rotate in and out of fire.

 

The bigger problem is that the damage output of this skill isn't remarkable at all. It's just a nerf that adds questionable group utility at the expense of solo play.

[Antipode.7830]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Antipode.7830" said:

> > So wait, this is a no icd fire trait, yeah? This feels more like a small scale weaver trait than a tempest trait. I haven’t played with it yet, but this looks like an ele take on Phalanx Strength, and I could see a weird feedback loop with a warrior running PS in small scale WvW or something, where they keep feeding you might to use to burn and re-feed them might for the healing and endurance regen. They make you burst more/harder, and you heal them more, and you don’t have to actually run anything other than what weaver tends to run in WvW for this to actually work out half-way decently.

> >

> > Just a weird thought.

>

> I don't think generating the 10 stack might is a problem for fire weavers. It's very easy to stack that much between the might from PP, combo blasts and fire shield transmutes. You're limited by how quickly you can rotate in and out of fire.

>

> The bigger problem is that the damage output of this skill isn't remarkable at all. It's just a nerf that adds questionable group utility at the expense of solo play.

 

Aaahhh, I see. Well that sucks then. Feels like ele combo ability has been a target for a while. Sad to see it just getting worse and worse.

[Stallic.2397]

This skill would be much cooler if it consumed less might rather than 10. Maybe 5. Something more fair. Also, if flame expulsion did more damage. Here's to being optimistic that Anet Tweaks these things.

As of right now, there's too much liability to use this trait. Weak trait to support allies by ruining your own damage. I thought Ele was supposed to be a damage class.

 

EDIT: also, after watching mightyteapots video, increasing the radius would be good too.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Antipode.7830" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Antipode.7830" said:

> > > So wait, this is a no icd fire trait, yeah? This feels more like a small scale weaver trait than a tempest trait. I haven’t played with it yet, but this looks like an ele take on Phalanx Strength, and I could see a weird feedback loop with a warrior running PS in small scale WvW or something, where they keep feeding you might to use to burn and re-feed them might for the healing and endurance regen. They make you burst more/harder, and you heal them more, and you don’t have to actually run anything other than what weaver tends to run in WvW for this to actually work out half-way decently.

> > >

> > > Just a weird thought.

> >

> > I don't think generating the 10 stack might is a problem for fire weavers. It's very easy to stack that much between the might from PP, combo blasts and fire shield transmutes. You're limited by how quickly you can rotate in and out of fire.

> >

> > The bigger problem is that the damage output of this skill isn't remarkable at all. It's just a nerf that adds questionable group utility at the expense of solo play.

>

> Aaahhh, I see. Well that sucks then. Feels like ele combo ability has been a target for a while. Sad to see it just getting worse and worse.

 

Here's a video where you can see it in action pretty well. I am alternating between fire and other elements so that I'm only out of fire for a few seconds at a time. So, it's about what you expect. When I rotate into fire I quickly stack up to 20-25 might. When I rotate out, I lose 10 stacks and bounce around between 10-15 stacks. You're still maintaining might stacks while outside of fire, so the incentive is still there to combo for might.

 

 

The problem is that this doesn't feel interesting or impactful. I always have the might to maximize the effect and I can't really afford to camp fire as a weaver. Basically, I'm going to swap attunements and I'm going to lose 10 might stacks. It's passive and the benefit I'm really supposed to gain out of this only applies to groups. If there were some sort of additional interaction and effect to justify losing 10 might and make this feel less passive, I might feel differently.