Scourge is dumb

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Blood magic passive healing is stupid. Locust signet can heal for over 20k. You output 1k barrier/s on average. You can facetank any condi burst and cleanse through nearly anything. Most matchups you dont really need to dodge, you can just spam aoe and corrupts on point. The only real counter seems to be a good nade holo, or cc chain and burst through 25k health and 10k barrier. I dont even play necro but scourge solo que was an easy carry into top 100. But what am I saying, this is what gameplay is intended to be like now.

[Dantheman.3589]

Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

 

whenever i faced a guard i could just corrupt them until they die or go off point.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

>

> whenever i faced a guard i could just corrupt them until they die or go off point.

 

Might be a different type of guard. There’s not any spammable Stab on core guard, which is the 1v1 build

[Tazer.2157]

This whole game mode has been one big troll from the February patch. Tanky condi spam builds everywhere. But don’t worry the pvp team is hard at work and we will get the next balance patch in 6 months

[rng.1024]

For those who wonder how to fight these builds:

- Don't. Whenever they come to your node leave and help elsewhere instead.

- If they bunker one node forget it and play 5v4 on rest of map.

- They are slow, you can quickly decap their point once they leave it with a hint of swiftness.

- If you are not sure you will kill it 1v2 quick, leave it to more experienced players on your team.

- Thieves are a hard rotational counter to bunkers

- Focus other players first, then the tank last because they lack good damage and can be healed up again on point

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> For those who wonder how to fight these builds:

> - Don't. Whenever they come to your node leave and help elsewhere instead.

> - If they bunker one node forget it and play 5v4 on rest of map.

> - They are slow, you can quickly decap their point once they leave it with a hint of swiftness.

> - If you are not sure you will kill it 1v2 quick, leave it to more experienced players on your team.

> - Thieves are a hard rotational counter to bunkers

> - Focus other players first, then the tank last because they lack good damage and can be healed up again on point

 

better counter is playing different game

For example im playing hots,league, killing floor 2 and to my surprise there is 0 scourges there, made my gaming life much better

[DonNee.5128]

i agree, to my experience so far, you can just spam barrier and hold any node 1v1, even most 1v2s you can handle

i would say vs holo+power rev or reaper and you're very dead otherwise you are unkillable

not even sure if mathematically some classes can out dps the barrier scourge puts out, d/p thief for example can't even remove barrier from u

[pah.4931]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> For those who wonder how to fight these builds:

> - Don't. Whenever they come to your node leave and help elsewhere instead.

> - If they bunker one node forget it and play 5v4 on rest of map.

> - They are slow, you can quickly decap their point once they leave it with a hint of swiftness.

> - If you are not sure you will kill it 1v2 quick, leave it to more experienced players on your team.

> - Thieves are a hard rotational counter to bunkers

> - Focus other players first, then the tank last because they lack good damage and can be healed up again on point

 

Problem is ... in a game as casual as GW2 ... people just want to PvP. They don't want to run around decapping circles (it's not Player versus Map, after all). It's a concept that has eluded Anet since they launched. In MMOs, people fight in roads. They like big numbers and lots of kills. They are trained to engage and to fight.

 

I agree with everything you are saying. But I would guess 98% of GW2 players don't care about conquest tactics. They care about having fun and fighting. And this is why Anet should have had a completely different PvP philosophy from the get-go... Alas, they thought players of the most casual MMO to launch since vanilla wow would want a hardcore complex PvP mode and ONLY that one mode.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> For those who wonder how to fight these builds:

> - Don't. Whenever they come to your node leave and help elsewhere instead.

> - If they bunker one node forget it and play 5v4 on rest of map.

> - They are slow, you can quickly decap their point once they leave it with a hint of swiftness.

> - If you are not sure you will kill it 1v2 quick, leave it to more experienced players on your team.

> - Thieves are a hard rotational counter to bunkers

> - Focus other players first, then the tank last because they lack good damage and can be healed up again on point

 

This is just ignoring it though. The real counter to specs like these are staying out of their circles. Their dps with out these aoe spells is negligible. While it’s true that some classes in the meta will have trouble with them anyways becuz they are weak to aoe spam doesn’t mean they are unbeatable, in fact just the fact that the map may end up on foefire means they are useless becuz anyone can stand out of their aoe and still keep nodes neutral.

[rng.1024]

@"Leonidrex.5649"

Definitely the best counter, I just can't seem to get the gw2 combat system skritt off my back :#

 

@"pah.4931"

Very good points, I also think alot of the problems could have been solved by acknowledging the e-sports era ended in order to restructure the mode while they had the HoT revenue and playerbase.

 

@"Dantheman.3589"

Indeed it is. It's kind of the same as back in the beginnings of the symbolbrand/burnweaver (different concept same effect) meta, where I realised they were far from unbeatable I just had to play it smart. But I also have to cover my bases assuming the loudest complaints come from those who can't fight these, and for them (and their team) it's best to just avoid that scenario altogether and let someone else take care of it instead.

[Shiyo.3578]

I only beat scourges by outsmarting them with rotations and decaps. Any node they're on is perma-capped as long as they afk on it and spam AOE on it. When the best way to beat a class is to simply avoid it and never fight it, you know something is horribly wrong.

I have ZERO idea why you would buff this back to being playable, people do not want to fight this garbage can design of a class.

Scourge is the best possible example of everything wrong with GW2's current PvP.

 

> @"pah.4931" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > For those who wonder how to fight these builds:

> > - Don't. Whenever they come to your node leave and help elsewhere instead.

> > - If they bunker one node forget it and play 5v4 on rest of map.

> > - They are slow, you can quickly decap their point once they leave it with a hint of swiftness.

> > - If you are not sure you will kill it 1v2 quick, leave it to more experienced players on your team.

> > - Thieves are a hard rotational counter to bunkers

> > - Focus other players first, then the tank last because they lack good damage and can be healed up again on point

>

> Problem is ... in a game as casual as GW2 ... people just want to PvP. They don't want to run around decapping circles (it's not Player versus Map, after all). It's a concept that has eluded Anet since they launched. In MMOs, people fight in roads. They like big numbers and lots of kills. They are trained to engage and to fight.

 

 

Those people just play ranger since it auto-wins any 1v1 regardless of your skill as a player. That's why 95% of wvw roamers are rangers.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> I only beat scourges by outsmarting them with rotations and decaps. Any node they're on is perma-capped as long as they afk on it and spam AOE on it. When the best way to beat a class is to simply avoid it and never fight it, you know something is horribly wrong.

 

You've essentially said "I only beat them when I take the advantage that's clearly presented by exploiting their clear weakness instead of forcing into their hand." Isn't that how you're supposed to play? You're not supposed to take every fight , every engagement or be able to best every enemy on a single build.

 

You see it as "I can't beat this class" and "horribly wrong"but part of me feels that's fairly tunneled on "I have to take this fight, I have to beat this class and win the node to win the game". You're actively choosing to fight into your enemies advantages. You may see it as never taking a fight but often in reality it's forcing your own teams advantage else where and actively winning the game by exploiting an enemies weaknesses? You can play the essential 5v4 and render the enemy team down a player.

 

If scourges had more mobility I would understand. They are also far from unbeatable.

 

 

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> This whole game mode has been one big troll from the February patch. Tanky condi spam builds everywhere. But don’t worry the pvp team is hard at work and we will get the next balance patch in 6 months

 

Condi overall has just been dominant bollocks for months now. Builds like core burn guard at LEAST are able to die, but then we have trapper rune DH and druid that can literally be played by apes and would still be efficient and nigh' unkillable due to how they work.

 

 

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > This whole game mode has been one big troll from the February patch. Tanky condi spam builds everywhere. But don’t worry the pvp team is hard at work and we will get the next balance patch in 6 months

>

> Condi overall has just been dominant kitten for months now. Builds like core burn guard at LEAST are able to die, but then we have trapper rune DH and druid that can literally be played by apes and would still be efficient and nigh' unkillable due to how they work.

>

>

 

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > This whole game mode has been one big troll from the February patch. Tanky condi spam builds everywhere. But don’t worry the pvp team is hard at work and we will get the next balance patch in 6 months

>

> Condi overall has just been dominant kitten for months now. Builds like core burn guard at LEAST are able to die, but then we have trapper rune DH and druid that can literally be played by apes and would still be efficient and nigh' unkillable due to how they work.

>

>

 

Yet people constantly cry for druid buffs, ugh.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > I only beat scourges by outsmarting them with rotations and decaps. Any node they're on is perma-capped as long as they afk on it and spam AOE on it. When the best way to beat a class is to simply avoid it and never fight it, you know something is horribly wrong.

>

> You've essentially said "I only beat them when I take the advantage that's clearly presented by exploiting their clear weakness instead of forcing into their hand." Isn't that how you're supposed to play? You're not supposed to take every fight , every engagement or be able to best every enemy on a single build.

>

> You see it as "I can't beat this class" and "horribly wrong"but part of me feels that's fairly tunneled on "I have to take this fight, I have to beat this class and win the node to win the game". You're actively choosing to fight into your enemies advantages. You may see it as never taking a fight but often in reality it's forcing your own teams advantage else where and actively winning the game by exploiting an enemies weaknesses? You can play the essential 5v4 and render the enemy team down a player.

>

> If scourges had more mobility I would understand. They are also far from unbeatable.

>

>

 

Except I'm not beating them. I'm literally avoiding them in PvP combat because they are not killable without a complete over commitment of at least 3 people, which btw means the class is completely broken when it takes 3 people to take 1 down. Sounds like chrono bunker tier defense "just out rotate them and they still die to 3 people!"

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

 

Scourge is OP as a teamfight/support hybrid right now, but I don't understand why there isn't more focus on Core Guard atm. Core Guard is currently a fuggin beast in this current patching.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

>

> Scourge is OP as a teamfight/support hybrid right now, but I don't understand why there isn't more focus on Core Guard atm. Core Guard is currently a fuggin beast in this current patching.

 

Spamming AOE on the node while you sit inside your AOE is the biggest issue with this game right now.

Guardian does this.

Trap builds do this.

Necro does this.

Scourge does this.

Renegade does this.

Condi rev does this.

Holosmith spams grenades/mortars on itself.

Tempest does this.

 

Mesmer and warrior both cannot do this. Hmmm, interesting, the two worst classes cannot sit inside their own AOE while afking on a node. Don't you worry though, I see people attempt to play staff condi mirage and afk on the node while spamming AOE on themselves(and fail).

 

It's just amazing how brainless spamming AOE on yourself is and how it has no decent counter. The more I play this game the less interested I am in it due to skills and class design.

 

The only counter is having competent teammates who can 2vs1 and insta kill the person for you, but imagine if nodes didn't exist? Imagine death match? Oh, wait, we did, and 3v3 was >>LITERALLY<< just aoe spam classes.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

>

> Scourge is OP as a teamfight/support hybrid right now, but I don't understand why there isn't more focus on Core Guard atm. Core Guard is currently a fuggin beast in this current patching.

 

Yeah, the guard 1v1 builds(core and dh actually) are amazing rn- they are lthe only build that can beat the scourge build and nades holo/ condi rev + ranger all at once. Possibly the best 1v1 spec atm, but has more trouble in plusses than say tanky ranger+ condi rev on average.

Edit: I hear about a weaver stance build that might be able to rival some of this, but too early to confirm.

[otto.5684]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > Symbol guard can out aoe scourge and hence win the match up in 1v1s pretty ezily.

> >

> > Scourge is OP as a teamfight/support hybrid right now, but I don't understand why there isn't more focus on Core Guard atm. Core Guard is currently a fuggin beast in this current patching.

>

> Spamming AOE on the node while you sit inside your AOE is the biggest issue with this game right now.

> Guardian does this.

> Trap builds do this.

> Necro does this.

> Scourge does this.

> Renegade does this.

> Condi rev does this.

> Holosmith spams grenades/mortars on itself.

> Tempest does this.

>

> Mesmer and warrior both cannot do this. Hmmm, interesting, the two worst classes cannot sit inside their own AOE while afking on a node. Don't you worry though, I see people attempt to play staff condi mirage and afk on the node while spamming AOE on themselves(and fail).

>

> It's just amazing how brainless spamming AOE on yourself is and how it has no decent counter. The more I play this game the less interested I am in it due to skills and class design.

>

> The only counter is having competent teammates who can 2vs1 and insta kill the person for you, but imagine if nodes didn't exist? Imagine death match? Oh, wait, we did, and 3v3 was >>LITERALLY<< just aoe spam classes.

 

Many of these things existed before the Feb and were not viable. The issue is the current abysmal damage levels, forces this type of game play.

[Shao.7236]

Complains seen;

 

AoE spam = Don't stand in it, can't contest but can't chase.

Condition spam = Bring clears AND properly use them, losing health is part of good plays too.

Tanky builds = Have the patience to actually disarm your opponent.

 

Game prior to Feb had so much cheese that players forgot how to play, only mashing for the instant gratification, but there was whining about the power creep though, so same ordeal, same annoying vicious circle.

[rng.1024]

If you struggle against scourge or necro in general, please post your profession/build (traitlines, weaps) and I can try to give a few 1v1 pointers :3

[Aihao.5824]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> If you struggle against scourge or necro in general, please post your profession/build (traitlines, weaps) and I can try to give a few 1v1 pointers :3

 

im d/p thief. what i can do vs healscg?

[Koen.1327]

> @"Aihao.5824" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > If you struggle against scourge or necro in general, please post your profession/build (traitlines, weaps) and I can try to give a few 1v1 pointers :3

>

> im d/p thief. what i can do vs healscg?

 

give basilik venom for cc chain

nothing u can do in 1v1 though

[rng.1024]

> @"Aihao.5824" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > If you struggle against scourge or necro in general, please post your profession/build (traitlines, weaps) and I can try to give a few 1v1 pointers :3

>

> im d/p thief. what i can do vs healscg?

 

 

The last part of this vid feature Sindrener on d/p vs Drazeh on necro among others in a 2v2 scenario.

 

Of course in conquest, as a d/p thief you should never 1v1 a healscourge as it's a waste of time and a matchup you are not supposed to win. But if your team can't deal you might aswell try.

 

**Basics:**

Assuming you play Daredevil, then your heal, steal and signet are your main ways of getting endurance back - this is important. Dagger 3 is your bread and butter in this matchup, and conserving initiative will be crucial.

 

**Weapon 1:**

 

Dagger 1: This is your main damage, try to land as many full chains as you can because the poison on the last attack denies alot of healing

 

Dagger 2: Never use until the necro is at 10% health and it's a sure kill.

 

Dagger 3: The combo here is dagger 3 + autoattacks + dodge away. This way you can almost always stay at a distance while whittling the necro down.

 

Pistol 4: Only use to interrupt heal or elite

 

Pistol 5: If you want to get in a few more autoattack chains after your dagger 3, drop this - beware however that the necro don't have many cooldowns because this chunks alot of initiative. Don't use stealth in this matchup as you will run out of initiative way too fast.

 

**Shortbow:**

 

Swap to this when you need to kite defensively or the necro tries to kite away from you.

 

Skill 1: Use it whenever you can.

Skill 2: Use it to counterpressure the necro

Skill 3: Use to avoid clear attacks like lich

Skill 4: Use to disrupt the nec and keep poision ticking. An undetonated skill 2 in this field will deny the nec some endurance regen.

Skill 5: Only use this if you need to resustain out of 900 range

 

**Final notes:**

In this matchup you cannot afford to waste your skills.

- Your heal is only safe after the necro has used his fear mark or you can line of sight

- Do not use Shadowstep on anything but when you eat a fear+condibomb, I cannot stress this point enough.

- Use signet for endurance and removing poison before heal, the low cooldown means it can also be okay using it to remove conditions in general.

 

This is pretty much the best bet you will have. The in and out style with dagger 3 and condi cleanse on dodges plus blinds means you can avoid most counterpressure.

 

Heal scourge doesn't really have that much dmg though, so equipping Sigil of Purging on dagger, signet, shadowstep and f.ex Infiltrator signet will allow you to constantly keep on it, negate it's 3 fears and autoattack/heartseeker it into downstate (unless it's a good necro who kites, then chances are it simply can't be killed by you). Also don't forget the stolen skill, it's unblockable and has a huge range - perfect for landing a dagger 3 and interrupt skills. Don't forget, their heal is by far the biggest factor in their resustain.