No Downstate

[diomache.9246]

So, after you applied "no Downstate" in WvW again and it basically makes my class no fun at all (Elementalist here) can we at least apply that to PvE, sPvP and Raids too that everyone has to experience this great addition to the game equally?

Or if the majority dislikes it just not do it again and neither combine it with double WxP?

[Randulf.7614]

I always got the impression it was a highly desired change in wvw that many campaign to be permanent.

 

I wouldn’t want it in pve though. There’s even a mastery tied to it which would be useless and the downed state at least encourages cooperation as players rush to rez each other.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

It is so fun being able to down someone outside their gate or on the edge of a wall and have them mistform to safety. You dislike it only because it removes your imba for wvw safety net.

[Solanum.6983]

It's only for the week. I'm actually enjoying it, It's nice to be able to pick off at least some of a blob one by one while trying to defend instead of them getting instantly ressed and steamrolling their way into a keep/tower.

[diomache.9246]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> It is so fun being able to down someone outside their gate or on the edge of a wall and have them mistform to safety. You dislike it only because it removes your imba for wvw safety net.

 

And it doesn't take the safety net from other classes. That makes it stupid. And I think everyone should suffer even from that.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I always got the impression it was a highly desired change in wvw that many campaign to be permanent.

>

> I wouldn’t want it in pve though. There’s even a mastery tied to it which would be useless and the downed state at least encourages cooperation as players rush to rez each other.

 

Yes they made campaign or better there where 2 polls with 2 different results but both barely over 50% basically the community is split in this . What I said about it in the other thread was also the down mechanic become standard in the game industry.

 

The main reason why people which I think is because they can grief on soft classes . Well you can think about how you want the result is people tend to stay away from wvw which play such classes during such events because they are more then often balanced with the downstate in mind without (and the long way back to the fight) They become unplayable /frustrating to play.

 

What also plays in I noticed yesterday on headstart is that it makes the work of healers not easier actually I would say -30% usefulness . We also had lags on the map and the heatwave affected the PC of some players all together. lt let quit half of all healers after an hours on Elona yesterday during headstart ( not on our linking partner but they are all progressive guilds who recently transfert).

 

Basically this event is similar to what social awkwardness is for fractals an anti teamwork mechanic.

[diomache.9246]

An event that is disliked by more than 50% of the community (a poll on forums isn't even useful) is just stupid. The whole game mode is dumbed down to pure dps and professions with invulnerabilities and options to evade getting killed (thieves, rangers) highly profit from it, while any organized groups disappear and circling around each other because who pushes first mostly dies.

It's like a punishment for liking the game mode right now because it's tied to double world xp. Imagine punishing the PvE community with stuff like that.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I was in WvW for dailies the other day and had forgotten about this. I got reminded real quick. I was also able to take some enemy players out. For me this is big because I ALWAYS lose because of the downstate mechanic. I'm a relatively low skilled player in this mode though so my experience should have no bearing on this change becoming permanent. I do find it more fun this way.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Two classes suffer out of this (and ‘suffer’ is used with extreme literary license) Necro and Ele.

 

Necro being the ‘downstate King’ while, as pointed out before, Ele has mist form to get to safety.

 

Either work well as part of a party designed to assist.

 

It’s.., ONE week. And has happened a total of three times in the past 7 + years (iirc). Play a different class if you can’t function on your Ele.

 

Asking for it to be in the other game modes makes zero sense.

 

Those that want to experience it, can do so in WvW.

 

If you dislike it so much, maybe this week isn’t for you.

 

I dislike most of the festivals... Kinda glad they don’t force them on me in WvW.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> An event that is disliked by more than 50% of the community (a poll on forums isn't even useful) is just stupid.

 

And your data comes from where?

 

Polls in the forums ARE dumb. But lol, I am sure you have a much more scientific sampling.

 

 

[Ashen.2907]

I love no downstate. I completely understand that it is not for everyone so I am not arguing for making it permanent, even if that would improve the game for me. Complaining that others get their preference for a week seems a bit off to me.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I've always been for downstate to be removed from the game entirely. It won't happen though as it'd alienate Anet's core demographic of players.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > It is so fun being able to down someone outside their gate or on the edge of a wall and have them mistform to safety. You dislike it only because it removes your imba for wvw safety net.

>

> And it doesn't take the safety net from other classes. That makes it stupid. And I think everyone should suffer even from that.

 

No ranger pet res.

No Necro life leech which does damage and helps revive.

No thief teleport..

No warrior Vengeance with trait to not die if you make a kill.

No invisibility, clones, or CC which buys time for allies to revive.

 

All classes had some safety net removed. "Suffer evenly," I assume. That's a bit much to hope for since the downed states are nowhere near equal in the first place.

[diomache.9246]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> I dislike most of the festivals... Kinda glad they don’t force them on me in WvW.

Which of the festivals has an impact on a game mode like this one?

Right, not a single one.

Yeah, sorry, I'm an Ele player and I want to be able to play my preferred game mode without having a huge disadvantage especially with a huge bonus for WxP and reward tracks.

 

[diomache.9246]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"diomache.9246" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > It is so fun being able to down someone outside their gate or on the edge of a wall and have them mistform to safety. You dislike it only because it removes your imba for wvw safety net.

> >

> > And it doesn't take the safety net from other classes. That makes it stupid. And I think everyone should suffer even from that.

>

> No ranger pet res.

> No Necro life leech which does damage and helps revive.

> No thief teleport..

> No warrior Vengeance with trait to not die if you make a kill.

> No invisibility, clones, or CC which buys time for allies to revive.

>

> All classes had some safety net removed. "Suffer evenly," I assume. That's a bit much to hope for since the downed states are nowhere near equal in the first place.

 

They have? You know that a thieves safety nets are stealth, teleports and mobility not a downstate skill. Why do you think the majority of roamers in this event are thieves and rangers - generally the biggest cheese this game has to offer.

Why do you think zergs mostly avoid dodging each other in this week?

But ok, let's make a "No stealth week" or a "No Boon week" or something like that.

[diomache.9246]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"diomache.9246" said:

> > An event that is disliked by more than 50% of the community (a poll on forums isn't even useful) is just stupid.

>

> And your data comes from where?

>

> Polls in the forums ARE dumb. But lol, I am sure you have a much more scientific sampling.

>

>

 

From the last poll we had.

The majority voted for "pro downstate" and no queues on full servers from monday to friday on EU made it pretty obvious.

[Seera.5916]

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > I dislike most of the festivals... Kinda glad they don’t force them on me in WvW.

> Which of the festivals has an impact on a game mode like this one?

> Right, not a single one.

> Yeah, sorry, I'm an Ele player and I want to be able to play my preferred game mode without having a huge disadvantage especially with a huge bonus for WxP and reward tracks.

>

 

As an Ele main myself, it's one week. Think of this week as a week to improve your play to avoid getting downed in the first place.

 

Or to try out another class that you don't feel is impacted by this event.

[Naxos.2503]

It's a controversial event, that's something that cant really be denied. One week where you're either "gud" or you're "ded". And there are no middle ground, quite literally. Glass cannon builds are invalidated unless they have a cheap damage mitigation skill (read = stealth). I cant use my elementalist in large battles where it would normally shine because I would die to retal (quite literally, not taking any hits, just killing myself through meteor cast). My revenant normally good for single damage is still good, I just die to dragon hunters and deadeyes.

 

It more or less exacerbate balance issues. Makes them glaringly obvious.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"diomache.9246" said:

> > > An event that is disliked by more than 50% of the community (a poll on forums isn't even useful) is just stupid.

> >

> > And your data comes from where?

> >

> > Polls in the forums ARE dumb. But lol, I am sure you have a much more scientific sampling.

> >

> >

>

> From the last poll we had.

> The majority voted for "pro downstate" and no queues on full servers from monday to friday on EU made it pretty obvious.

 

So wait.... you say forum polls are dumb yet you use one to ‘prove a point’?

 

Iooooll

[Caedmon.6798]

WvW needs to have this permenant so its so heavily numbers based.> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> It's a controversial event, that's something that cant really be denied. One week where you're either "gud" or you're "ded". And there are no middle ground, quite literally. Glass cannon builds are invalidated unless they have a cheap damage mitigation skill (read = stealth). I cant use my elementalist in large battles where it would normally shine because I would die to retal (quite literally, not taking any hits, just killing myself through meteor cast). My revenant normally good for single damage is still good, I just die to dragon hunters and deadeyes.

>

> It more or less exacerbate balance issues. Makes them glaringly obvious.

 

Righto because 300 retal damage equals 4 - 6k hits from meteor,just lmao.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"diomache.9246" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > It is so fun being able to down someone outside their gate or on the edge of a wall and have them mistform to safety. You dislike it only because it removes your imba for wvw safety net.

> >

> > And it doesn't take the safety net from other classes. That makes it stupid. And I think everyone should suffer even from that.

>

> No ranger pet res.

> No Necro life leech which does damage and helps revive.

> No thief teleport..

> No warrior Vengeance with trait to not die if you make a kill.

> No invisibility, clones, or CC which buys time for allies to revive.

>

> All classes had some safety net removed. "Suffer evenly," I assume. That's a bit much to hope for since the downed states are nowhere near equal in the first place.

 

You forgot that a lot of healer build have revive mechanic which are also useless. What I also must add is that ELe is a special case here in pve fractals when you do a full cm+t4+rec run it even then rare to see a weaver to get not once into the down state during the run . Only top tier guild runs have it different . without down state the whole class would have a need to be rebalanced i don't know if there other classes with similar problems.

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> WvW needs to have this permenant so its so heavily numbers based.> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > It's a controversial event, that's something that cant really be denied. One week where you're either "gud" or you're "ded". And there are no middle ground, quite literally. Glass cannon builds are invalidated unless they have a cheap damage mitigation skill (read = stealth). I cant use my elementalist in large battles where it would normally shine because I would die to retal (quite literally, not taking any hits, just killing myself through meteor cast). My revenant normally good for single damage is still good, I just die to dragon hunters and deadeyes.

> >

> > It more or less exacerbate balance issues. Makes them glaringly obvious.

>

> Righto because 300 retal damage equals 4 - 6k hits from meteor,just lmao.

 

You've never cast meteor on a blob have you.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > WvW needs to have this permenant so its so heavily numbers based.> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > > It's a controversial event, that's something that cant really be denied. One week where you're either "gud" or you're "ded". And there are no middle ground, quite literally. Glass cannon builds are invalidated unless they have a cheap damage mitigation skill (read = stealth). I cant use my elementalist in large battles where it would normally shine because I would die to retal (quite literally, not taking any hits, just killing myself through meteor cast). My revenant normally good for single damage is still good, I just die to dragon hunters and deadeyes.

> > >

> > > It more or less exacerbate balance issues. Makes them glaringly obvious.

> >

> > Righto because 300 retal damage equals 4 - 6k hits from meteor,just lmao.

>

> You've never cast meteor on a blob have you.

 

If thief or warri had meteor,i def would ! Also theres a thing like evade etc.

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > WvW needs to have this permenant so its so heavily numbers based.> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > > > It's a controversial event, that's something that cant really be denied. One week where you're either "gud" or you're "ded". And there are no middle ground, quite literally. Glass cannon builds are invalidated unless they have a cheap damage mitigation skill (read = stealth). I cant use my elementalist in large battles where it would normally shine because I would die to retal (quite literally, not taking any hits, just killing myself through meteor cast). My revenant normally good for single damage is still good, I just die to dragon hunters and deadeyes.

> > > >

> > > > It more or less exacerbate balance issues. Makes them glaringly obvious.

> > >

> > > Righto because 300 retal damage equals 4 - 6k hits from meteor,just lmao.

> >

> > You've never cast meteor on a blob have you.

>

> If thief or warri had meteor,i def would ! Also theres a thing like evade etc.

 

To the best of my knowledge, you cannot evade Retal. So casting a meteor on a blob equals to over 300x16 damage worth of retal in 5 seconds if you aim well, and more if the blob is bunkering (luckily more often than not, they do not bunker and change position instead).

 

Arguably, even I die, I find it is often worth it, the stacks of burning ontop of the damage can give the opposing zerg to get a solid leg up on a superior number. I frequently die in it after retreating with Burning Retreat and mist form to the further backline to be picked up by the other backliners. With no downstate there's no such thing, making the move much more punishing. You can still get a good mileage out of it if you expunge your entire fire arsenal before retal kills you off

[Sobx.1758]

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> So, after you applied "no Downstate" in WvW again and it basically makes my class no fun at all (Elementalist here) can we at least apply that to PvE, sPvP and Raids too that everyone has to experience this great addition to the game equally?

> Or if the majority dislikes it just not do it again and neither combine it with double WxP?

 

So your main (possibly only) argument against the "no downstate" is that you can't abuse it on a single class that can stick near the friendly settlements and in case they lose a fight, they can safely zoom inside the walls to heal back up? oof, that's pretty heavy.