Do you wanna hear a joke?

[Telgum.6071]

This one from the wiki


 

[Blocki.4931]

What exactly are unviable weapons for the warrior? Off-hand Sword and... that's it. Everything else is viable and used.

[Fueki.4753]

That warrior has the most weapons and thus the most play-style choices is not wrong.

However, having many choices doesn't equal having many **good** choices.

[felix.2386]

it is kinda funny considering, warrior with the most access of weapon sets, actually has the least playstyle, literally everything play the same or just inviable.

warrior has been stuck as side noder in PvP for 8 years untill now

and banner slave since 2012 in PvE.

Also power warrior has always been destroyed in condi meta.

and gs is the power weapon that's been using since 2012..nothing really changed, with a tiny mix hambow/shoutbow.

 

reason why i main rev now, there's literally a build for everything

like thief had more variation of PvP meta build in one year compare to warrior's entire life span.

 

thief since last year september,

S/D condi daredevil > S/P daredevil > Core power thief > P/D condi core > D/P Daredevil

 

warrior since 2013

hambow>shoutbow> Greatsword axe shield > greatsword dagger shield> healbreaker.

 

warrior since last year september

greatsword/dagger shield>healbreak

 

rev since last year september,

S/S shiro> Mace/axe sword/shield condi>Mace/shield staff condi> Shortbow renegade

 

ele since last year september

sw/f burn weaver, sw/f water bunker, d/f lightning rod, d/f tempest

 

etc

 

literally every single class has more viable weapon variation then warrior could ever dreamed off..

[Arolandis.8360]

Oh oh! I know! Warriors!

 

Joking aside, I want to have a viable POWER Longbow option for my Spellbreaker, please. Anet. (although even as condi it's terrible) Bows are cool and I want to be able to use one on my Warrior please.

 

Anyway. Most of our weapons are melee and need to compensate for that. For something like Maces and Hammers you have a little CC to help with that, but they removed the damage from them and their auto attacks are slow so what good are they? They have more tradeoffs than what other classes have to deal with. And then they go and nerf MMR like 4 times over, from the traits themselves to the cooldown on Sigil of Strength. Less Might from Magebane Tether. Being melee, they needed this trait. I mained other classes for a long time and it never bothered me that a Warrior had good self healing, because it was only while they were attacking. All you had to do was stunbreak and kite. If they can't hit you they can't heal, that was the tradeoff. And a very fun mechanic.

 

And totally off-topic, because this class makes me want to rant more than any other - Spellbreaker Meditations are mostly useless. A few look good on paper but they are awful.

 

Sight Beyond Sight's guaranteed crit is mostly wasted on a class that tends to stay crit capped since going power to begin with is ineffective without crit. The blind removal it has usually goes wasted since most of the time you've already swung and missed before you notice the Blind and get the chance to hit the button. The reveal is the only decent thing on it but a utility slot just for a reveal? Passive Magebane tether works better.

 

Break Enchantments should still deal damage, or something else. The Revenge Counter trait is only half a trait now, as are other traits because of all the nerfs.

 

Featherfoot Grace isn't too bad but the cooldown is too long.

 

Imminent Threat. ...Meh.

 

And Winds of Disenchantment needs to pulse stability. Having to take Defiant Stance and Balanced Stance just to get it off and survive during the channel is just god awful. Mesmers strip far more boons than this bubble does now, it's far from overpowered. The least we could get for it is some stability or extra survival during the channel.

 

And lastly, Natural Healing. I feel that with it's long cast time and removal of all your boons it should actually provide you with more healing or something. If you have up to 7 conditions on you you're likely not going to be in a situation where slowly casting this is going to save you.

 

I just want to enjoy this game as my favorite class. Spellbreaker's theme was one of my favorites, but it's so lackluster. Oh and Sun and Moon trait needs buffs. Off-hand dagger trait healing on crit for 7% is so much lower than you'd think. If you manage to deal 10k damage while wielding a dagger in your offhand you've healed yourself for 700 health. Wut.

 

Okay I'm done now.

 

 

[sneakytails.5629]

Dagger was awesome upon release, then it was constantly pecked at until our current destination where daggers feel like using pool noodles against enemies.

 

I still remember playing Spellbreaker that first night upon release, we were wrecking balls!

 

 

[sneakytails.5629]

" Oh and Sun and Moon trait needs buffs. Off-hand dagger trait healing on crit for 7% is so much lower than you'd think. If you manage to deal 10k damage while wielding a dagger in your offhand you've healed yourself for 700 health. Wut."

 

Yeah, it should be based on healing power so we can mix some of that into our gear. Or just up the percentage of healing on crit. 15% or so.

 

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Arolandis.8360" said:

 

> And lastly, Natural Healing. I feel that with it's long cast time and removal of all your boons it should actually provide you with more healing or something. If you have up to 7 conditions on you you're likely not going to be in a situation where slowly casting this is going to save you.

 

 

One quick easy fix to this one could honestly be, Heal 1,500 health every second for 7 seconds and remove 1 condition and boon on each pulse. For each boon removed gain 2s of regeneration per boon at the end of the duration.

 

Or even, gain protection after removing 3 or more boons. Something like this would make sense to give the skill some 'oomph'.

 

As for your comments on the meditation skills, I agree. They feel like they want to do something but a necro main dev said no.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Telgum.6071" said:

> This one from the wiki

> 

 

I mean... It's true?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Arolandis.8360" said:

>

> > And lastly, Natural Healing. I feel that with it's long cast time and removal of all your boons it should actually provide you with more healing or something. If you have up to 7 conditions on you you're likely not going to be in a situation where slowly casting this is going to save you.

>

>

> One quick easy fix to this one could honestly be, Heal 1,500 health every second for 7 seconds and remove 1 condition and boon on each pulse. For each boon removed gain 2s of regeneration per boon at the end of the duration.

>

> Or even, gain protection after removing 3 or more boons. Something like this would make sense to give the skill some 'oomph'.

>

> As for your comments on the meditation skills, I agree. They feel like they want to do something but a necro main dev said no.

 

You guys are forgetting that the boon removal fuels Attacker's Insight. The skill heals you for a large chunk, removes a large number of condi, and then potentially gives you 225 power and ferocity. If anything it just needs a faster cast time, but most heal skills have cast times like it, so not going to happen.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> warrior has been stuck as side noder in PvP for 8 years untill now

It's a support now

 

> and banner slave since 2012 in PvE.

Unique effects are OP in pve, but you can play non-bannerslave warrior and be viable.

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> You guys are forgetting that the boon removal fuels Attacker's Insight. The skill heals you for a large chunk, removes a large number of condi, and then potentially gives you 225 power and ferocity. If anything it just needs a faster cast time, but most heal skills have cast times like it, so not going to happen.

 

I dont know really... since you end up capped on that before you even need to use the heal in the first place, its a little wasted, say you're in a fight with all 5 players, 1 full counter and you're instantly at 5 stacks. If you have 5 boons on you, you can bet you already have the 5 stacks as well, if you were fighting.

 

Other things that could be changed to make some of the meditation skills somewhat useful is change some of their functions.

 

Like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat as the prime example, a totally wasted skill, Why not make this skill do as it says. 'Imminent Threat' prepare for an attack and reflect the damage back to the attacker, capped at 5,000 damage in pvp. (10,000 in pve). Heck even the character could shout 'ENOUGH!' as they blast the attack back... the question then comes, would it also hit ranged attackers or just melee?

The window of function would have to be small, so its used as a careful/skillful counter to wreckless play. See someone coming in with a maul thats going to hit you for up to 10,000 damage? Imminent Threat and reflect 5,000 damage back to the attacker if it lands.

 

I'd honestly love to see changes like this made, so we at least have a fun skill to use in some skillful way.

[felix.2386]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > You guys are forgetting that the boon removal fuels Attacker's Insight. The skill heals you for a large chunk, removes a large number of condi, and then potentially gives you 225 power and ferocity. If anything it just needs a faster cast time, but most heal skills have cast times like it, so not going to happen.

>

> I dont know really... since you end up capped on that before you even need to use the heal in the first place, its a little wasted, say you're in a fight with all 5 players, 1 full counter and you're instantly at 5 stacks. If you have 5 boons on you, you can bet you already have the 5 stacks as well, if you were fighting.

>

> Other things that could be changed to make some of the meditation skills somewhat useful is change some of their functions.

>

> Like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat as the prime example, a totally wasted skill, Why not make this skill do as it says. 'Imminent Threat' prepare for an attack and reflect the damage back to the attacker, capped at 5,000 damage in pvp. (10,000 in pve). Heck even the character could shout 'ENOUGH!' as they blast the attack back... the question then comes, would it also hit ranged attackers or just melee?

> The window of function would have to be small, so its used as a careful/skillful counter to wreckless play. See someone coming in with a maul thats going to hit you for up to 10,000 damage? Imminent Threat and reflect 5,000 damage back to the attacker if it lands.

>

> I'd honestly love to see changes like this made, so we at least have a fun skill to use in some skillful way.

 

imminent threat could literally be a f3 skill, or a trait that proc on other skills, like proc whenever casting meditation.

 

warrior barely get any trait that proc skill on cast. king of fire and last blaze are simply damage increase.

only thing that's good is magebane tether and shoutheal, warrior needs more utility focused proc on cast.

 

like mesmer literally has a trait that gives signets give invulnerability , rev procs all kinds of boon/effect on legend swap..

funny how warrior with the least numbers also has the least number of skills available from trait proc..

the skill number warrior has available per build is 2013 level..gs/dagger shield is best dps war build, mainly thank to secondary skill procing like magebane and rampage being another set of skills on top of dagger being insanely versatile. But it's still not enough..

 

like, dagger has CC, double leap, slow, boon rip, unblockable attack and decent damage, there's no weapon for warrior as good as dagger for pvp, even greatsword comes to second. even for how packed dagger is, still not enough to make a viable dps war build

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > You guys are forgetting that the boon removal fuels Attacker's Insight. The skill heals you for a large chunk, removes a large number of condi, and then potentially gives you 225 power and ferocity. If anything it just needs a faster cast time, but most heal skills have cast times like it, so not going to happen.

> >

> > I dont know really... since you end up capped on that before you even need to use the heal in the first place, its a little wasted, say you're in a fight with all 5 players, 1 full counter and you're instantly at 5 stacks. If you have 5 boons on you, you can bet you already have the 5 stacks as well, if you were fighting.

> >

> > Other things that could be changed to make some of the meditation skills somewhat useful is change some of their functions.

> >

> > Like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat as the prime example, a totally wasted skill, Why not make this skill do as it says. 'Imminent Threat' prepare for an attack and reflect the damage back to the attacker, capped at 5,000 damage in pvp. (10,000 in pve). Heck even the character could shout 'ENOUGH!' as they blast the attack back... the question then comes, would it also hit ranged attackers or just melee?

> > The window of function would have to be small, so its used as a careful/skillful counter to wreckless play. See someone coming in with a maul thats going to hit you for up to 10,000 damage? Imminent Threat and reflect 5,000 damage back to the attacker if it lands.

> >

> > I'd honestly love to see changes like this made, so we at least have a fun skill to use in some skillful way.

>

> imminent threat could literally be a f3 skill, or a trait that proc on other skills, like proc whenever casting meditation.

>

> warrior barely get any trait that proc skill on cast. king of fire and last blaze are simply damage increase.

> only thing that's good is magebane tether and shoutheal, warrior needs more utility focused proc on cast.

>

> like mesmer literally has a trait that gives signets give invulnerability , rev procs all kinds of boon/effect on legend swap..

> funny how warrior with the least numbers also has the least number of skills available from trait proc..

> the skill number warrior has available per build is 2013 level..gs/dagger shield is best dps war build, mainly thank to secondary skill procing like magebane and rampage being another set of skills on top of dagger being insanely versatile. But it's still not enough..

>

> like, dagger has CC, double leap, slow, boon rip, unblockable attack and decent damage, there's no weapon for warrior as good as dagger for pvp, even greatsword comes to second. even for how packed dagger is, still not enough to make a viable dps war build

 

This all really just speaks to Spellbreaker needing a rework, but preferably not by the same dev who cooked up the Berserker rework. Can we get the dev who did the Explosives rework to come look at some Warrior traitlines plz?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> That warrior has the most weapons and thus the most play-style choices is not wrong.

> However, having many choices doesn't equal having many **good** choices.

 

Well gw2 players only play gimmick rotations (most) , if its something that needs to put effort even if its strong... it isnt viable :\

 

Reason only the most efective with lesser efort schemes end being played.... lack of design and obgitivity in class design leads to that, lots of stuff one or very few option to choose from.

 

GW2 is the poor man mechanics mmo :P but dammn look at thoose shinnies!!!! it shiiiiines!

 

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> GW2 is the poor man mechanics mmo :P but dammn look at thoose shinnies!!!! it shiiiiines!

>

 

You say that... but I actually dissagree on this point. Since gw2 has more mechanics than most MMO's out there. Most MMO's don't even let you dodge, weapon swap or pick and choose traits/skills to use, most MMO's rely on an RNG dodge block system. Try and play an oldschool MMO after playing gw2 for years, its dull, since they really do lack mechanics that gw2 has. Gw2 makes you feel like you're in control of your character's life, rather than an RNG system that picks if you die from the attack or live.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The only other MMO that isn't an action MMO that has anything resembling mechanics is FF14, and it puts GW2 to shame in that regard.

[felix.2386]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > That warrior has the most weapons and thus the most play-style choices is not wrong.

> > However, having many choices doesn't equal having many **good** choices.

>

> Well gw2 players only play gimmick rotations (most) , if its something that needs to put effort even if its strong... it isnt viable :\

>

> Reason only the most efective with lesser efort schemes end being played.... lack of design and obgitivity in class design leads to that, lots of stuff one or very few option to choose from.

>

> GW2 is the poor man mechanics mmo :P but dammn look at thoose shinnies!!!! it shiiiiines!

>

 

Wrong, top players will play whatever is best even it takes effort, actually any good pvp player will prefer skill demanding builds over braindead build.

currently all meta builds are skill demanding, you barely see any holo/rev/tempest meta builds down there, even tho those are meta builds, because noobs can't play them.

 

warrior's options are simply unviable, not because they are good but takes effort, they are simply bad.

[Telgum.6071]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > GW2 is the poor man mechanics mmo :P but dammn look at thoose shinnies!!!! it shiiiiines!

> >

>

> You say that... but I actually dissagree on this point. Since gw2 has more mechanics than most MMO's out there. Most MMO's don't even let you dodge, weapon swap or pick and choose traits/skills to use, most MMO's rely on an RNG dodge block system. Try and play an oldschool MMO after playing gw2 for years, its dull, since they really do lack mechanics that gw2 has. Gw2 makes you feel like you're in control of your character's life, rather than an RNG system that picks if you die from the attack or live.

 

That's so right, I cannot imagine myself playing another MMO and not being able to dodge

[jpsssss.7530]

Can i has a ranged weapon on warrior that doesn't require a cheese build to be good?

[Yasai.3549]

#I'm not a Warrior main, I'm a Greatsword main.

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> The only other MMO that isn't an action MMO that has anything resembling mechanics is FF14, and it puts GW2 to shame in that regard.

 

As someone who has also played that game, I really believe people overhype it. The combat makes me feel sleepy and also has the worst pvp ive ever seen for an MMO. The story is great however, but the game play... iffy at best. Still though, MMO's (new ones) need to all provide the player with an active dodge system rather than the old school RNG evade/block/parry system, as this is a relic of the past no longer suited for MMO's moving forwards.

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > The only other MMO that isn't an action MMO that has anything resembling mechanics is FF14, and it puts GW2 to shame in that regard.

>

> As someone who has also played that game, I really believe people overhype it. The combat makes me feel sleepy and also has the worst pvp ive ever seen for an MMO. The story is great however, but the game play... iffy at best. Still though, MMO's (new ones) need to all provide the player with an active dodge system rather than the old school RNG evade/block/parry system, as this is a relic of the past no longer suited for MMO's moving forwards.

>

>

>

 

I don't play it myself. The global cool downs make the beginning too slow. But my friend SWEARS it rapidly accelerates post lvl 50 and basic rotations are like our ele rotations on steroids. That and boss mechanics there make ours seem trivial.

 

GW2 is _supposed_ to have the best PvP out of the traditional MMOs.

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I don't play it myself. The global cool downs make the beginning too slow. But my friend SWEARS it rapidly accelerates post lvl 50 and basic rotations are like our ele rotations on steroids. That and boss mechanics there make ours seem trivial.

>

> GW2 is _supposed_ to have the best PvP out of the traditional MMOs.

 

The GCD gets smaller at 80, but its still there, you end up pressing the same 4-6 skills over and over again, and always do the same 123 attacks while the other skills are on cooldown. The only reason why people probably dont notice this is due to the massive blinding effects on the screen. I honestly thought I was going to get arthritis playing that game.

 

The big simularity between the two games, is that both run the rule of stay out of the AOE fields that could insta-gib you rule. Where GW2 could use improvement is by adding in more mechanics of, picking up a buff, or pulling a lever to create a shield, or destroy a rock/pillar to create cover. Other than that, mechanic wise, the two games are quite close together (but GW2 has far more mechanics for character control/combat. You're not locked to one role, you can be anything, but FFXIV, you want to tank? you must be 1 of 3 classes, want to heal? Once again 1 of 3 classes. I would't go as far to say our bosses seem trivial (some of the old dungeon bosses, sure.) the newer stuff has a much heavier mechanic based combat system.

 

 

What I would like to see in GW2, is a change to the Taunt system in PvE, so it can be used as a tanking maneuver.

 

 

Just realised this is a massive digression from the topic : <

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

 

> I don't play it myself. The global cool downs make the beginning too slow. But my friend SWEARS it rapidly accelerates post lvl 50 and basic rotations are like our ele rotations on steroids. That and boss mechanics there make ours seem trivial.

 

Correct. The endgame mechanics and rotations are pretty wild considering the toughest content likes to challenge yur awareness and has no such thing as Boon spamming to cushion yur run.

 

Messing up a rotation could lead to a dps loss and even cost the entire wipe due to boss enrage threshholds being very strict.

 

> GW2 is _supposed_ to have the best PvP out of the traditional MMOs.

 

Very true.

No other MMOs from current gen, previous gen or 2 gens ago can even match GW2 when it comes to PvP Combat, which is a huge shame because even now with the wanton domination of unfairly oppressive builds, the game's combat is still pretty fun.

 

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

 

> The big simularity between the two games, is that both run the rule of stay out of the AOE fields that could insta-gib you rule. Where GW2 could use improvement is by adding in more mechanics of, picking up a buff, or pulling a lever to create a shield, or destroy a rock/pillar to create cover. Other than that, mechanic wise, the two games are quite close together

 

Again, taking from my point above, FF14 doesn't have something so failsafe and cushy as Boon spamming to carry yur runs.

 

The most FF14 has for team support is Regens, Shields and shortlived damage buffs.

 

Gw2 has Regen, Aegis which straight up blocks an instance of damage, Barrier which are like Shields, Perma 25 might stacks which increases everyone's DPS by a ridiculous amount, Fury which makes everyone crit capped, Quickness which speeds up AAs and skills, Alacrity which makes cooldowns come back online faster, Stability which straight up ignores CC (which FF14 only has as a long cooldown, single CC immunity skill) and Resistance which straight up ignores Condition DoTs.

 

If FF14 had the amount of busted boons and boon uptime from GW2, it would be a vastly different game than it is right now.

 

This again leads me to actually want a serious discussion about Boons in this game, because Boons are a cancer which is destroying balance but Anet seems content to let Boons go unbalanced for so long.