Anyone else see how broken mirage is?

[necromaniac.7629]

l.m.a.o ...

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Can we get 2nd dodge back?

[felix.2386]

mirage is mechanically broken that it should never be viable in pvp ever unless mechanically fixed.

just like how berserker is mechanically unplayable against anything that's moving

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> hurr durr they burst from stealth and dodge all the time

 

Out of all the classes that could rightfully complain about it, this thread from a thief is actually precious

[Armen.1483]

I don't understand how mirage is still a problem. 1 dodge, enough said. And compared to many other classes mirage doesn't have too much damage either. Squishy, vulnerable and no good damage. When I see a mirage in enemy team I am always: "ow free food"

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> mirage is mechanically broken that it should never be viable in pvp ever unless mechanically fixed.

> just like how berserker is mechanically unplayable against anything that's moving

 

thief and necro are mechanically broken too, not as a spec but as a entire class, saying that mirage should be bad cuz its mechanically unfun should equal to thief and necro never being viable since they mechanically are stupid too, maybe even worse.

 

edit

toss a ranger in there too due to how dumb pets are, and how buggy they are

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > hurr durr they burst from stealth and dodge all the time

>

> Out of all the classes that could rightfully complain about it, this thread from a thief is actually precious

 

Yes and especially if they play DD and have 3rd dodge training wheels on.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > > hurr durr they burst from stealth and dodge all the time

> >

> > Out of all the classes that could rightfully complain about it, this thread from a thief is actually precious

>

> Yes and especially if they play DD and have 3rd dodge training wheels on.

 

thief counters mesmer... because Steal>mesmer (Especially Mirage since their dodges have a UI tell.). Do even pvp?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > > > hurr durr they burst from stealth and dodge all the time

> > >

> > > Out of all the classes that could rightfully complain about it, this thread from a thief is actually precious

> >

> > Yes and especially if they play DD and have 3rd dodge training wheels on.

>

> thief counters mesmer... because Steal>mesmer (Especially Mirage since their dodges have a UI tell.). Do even pvp?

 

I play Mes and i know thief counters it.

Not sure if you were meant to reply to someone elses comment or the US elections got to you or smoked something funny.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> I don't understand how mirage is still a problem. 1 dodge, enough said. And compared to many other classes mirage doesn't have too much damage either. Squishy, vulnerable and no good damage. When I see a mirage in enemy team I am always: "ow free food"

 

i have Mesmer Profession builds that could +1 shot up to 5 players with the right coordination. They are old builds with few adjustments and No! i will Never post them until Anet address Thief Profession first.

 

As long as Anet doesn't take serious action against Thief Profession, Mesmer Profession will always remain in a Toxic state.

 

Thief Profession ranked #1 spot being the most Dangerous Broken Profession, while Mesmer Procession rank #2 spot

 

(the one dodge Punishment against Mesmer Profession was only to keep Mesmer Profession from not overtaking the #1 spot because they were becoming too much of a threat to Thief Profession. Like keeping them in line to not take Thief Profession #1 spot of Toxicity)

 

**So this is why, Thief Profession must be dealt with the most Inevitable, Utmost, Severity Punishment for being the root cause source of Toxicity**

 

In other word, instead of blaming Mesmer Profession for being Toxic, Blame

[Armen.1483]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Armen.1483" said:

> > I don't understand how mirage is still a problem. 1 dodge, enough said. And compared to many other classes mirage doesn't have too much damage either. Squishy, vulnerable and no good damage. When I see a mirage in enemy team I am always: "ow free food"

>

> i have Mesmer Profession builds that could +1 shot up to 5 players with the right coordination. They are old builds with few adjustments and No! i will Never post them until Anet address Thief Profession first.

lol, every mesmer build is a oneshot build now, it is not a secret, internet is full of that. However with berserker and scholar stats any profession can do those oneshots. Problem is some professions (I look at engi and thief) can do it and survive easily, while mesmer can't. As it is easy to pull off a oneshot combo with a mesmer it is twice easier to punish them with any mediocre damage class. If you play mesmer you know how punishing it is.

> As long as Anet doesn't take serious action against Thief Profession, Mesmer Profession will always remain in a Toxic state.

But I agree with you that thief is out of hands for some time already.

> Thief Profession ranked #1 spot being the most Dangerous Broken Profession, while Mesmer Procession rank #2 spot

Who ranked that ? Forbes ?

> (the one dodge Punishment against Mesmer Profession was only to keep Mesmer Profession from not overtaking the #1 spot because they were becoming too much of a threat to Thief Profession. Like keeping them in line to not take Thief Profession #1 spot of Toxicity)

> You have no idea what you're talking about. Thief counters mesmer HARD. Give mesmer 3 dodges thief will win vs any mesmer as long as plasma is not nerfed.

> **So this is why, Thief Profession must be dealt with the most Inevitable, Utmost, Severity Punishment for being the root cause source of Toxicity**

I agree that thief is hard to deal with nowdays, but only toxic thing I see is your rant. No arguments whatsoever.

[Armen.1483]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"felix.2386" said:

> > mirage is mechanically broken that it should never be viable in pvp ever unless mechanically fixed.

> > just like how berserker is mechanically unplayable against anything that's moving

>

> thief and necro are mechanically broken too, not as a spec but as a entire class, saying that mirage should be bad cuz its mechanically unfun should equal to thief and necro never being viable since they mechanically are stupid too, maybe even worse.

>

> edit

> toss a ranger in there too due to how dumb pets are, and how buggy they are

 

Meanwhile flamethorower only scrapper is healthy ? -_o_- Is PVP in gw2 still a thing ? Why are we torturing ourselves ?

[Shao.7236]

Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

 

It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

 

It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > mirage is mechanically broken that it should never be viable in pvp ever unless mechanically fixed.

> > > just like how berserker is mechanically unplayable against anything that's moving

> >

> > thief and necro are mechanically broken too, not as a spec but as a entire class, saying that mirage should be bad cuz its mechanically unfun should equal to thief and necro never being viable since they mechanically are stupid too, maybe even worse.

> >

> > edit

> > toss a ranger in there too due to how dumb pets are, and how buggy they are

>

> Meanwhile flamethorower only scrapper is healthy ? -_o_- Is PVP in gw2 still a thing ? Why are we torturing ourselves ?

 

this is what I mean, most classes and builds are 100% degen yet everyone is hung up on mirage, since it can dodge while attacking/controlled.

meanwhile thief can perma stealth and use the same ability several times, necros mechanic is another hp bar, this shit promotes stupid bunker facetank gameplay.

what we had after feb patch with ranger... oh boy the pet AI peak gameplay of getting hit for 6k-7k each swing, joy to behold.

never said there are no others, just the 3 off the top of my head

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

>

> It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

>

> It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

 

"It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable"

 

Where was it all this **integrity** when Anet was asked by this same community to nerf far weaker builds than mirage? There are people in this thread who **were crying about freaking Tornado....that Tornado elite** , people were crying about **FA ele** which had 1/5 of the sustain of mirage and still got removed from the game as people were crying on the forum.

 

-"LR ele are generally good if you have no stability because the ele will easily CC you, fighting a LR ele without stability is almost an auto loss"...I should use "was good" though

-"Fire weaver is generally good if you have no condi clear because the burning will easily overwhelm you, without condi clear is almost an auto loss"..again I should use "was"

-"Beastmaster rangers are generally good if you have no where to LoS because the pets will easily reach you, not dodging pets is almost an auto loss"..again "was good"

 

Hey..I can make an argument for every single spec nerfed up to this point and **how you could have won if you'd knew how to LoS**

 

I am loving this **new** LoS strategy proposal after everything **but your own profession** got nerfed

 

[Marxx.5021]

What is broken is the way anet doesn't do balancing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

>

> It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

>

> It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

 

that was pref feb, back when mirage builds could deal dmg with clones.

right now people play gs, sword, axe as weapons and none of those clones deal any damage, you CAN los but you dont have to.

the thing with mirage is they use defensive cooldowns to exact offensive pressure, be it dodge for damage or mobility ( gs/sword ) blink as mobility same as jaunt, and stealth to have better odds of landing skills. fighting mirage is a game of appearing more vulnerable then you are and punishing them for overextending, slow fights they always lose due to lack of ways to recover health so they are pressured into engaging, expecially axe/sword condi builds since they not only cant heal but are also 100% melee

[Shao.7236]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

> >

> > It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

> >

> > It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

>

> "It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable"

>

> Where was it all this **integrity** when Anet was asked by this same community to nerf far weaker builds than mirage? There are people in this thread who **were crying about freaking Tornado....that Tornado elite** , people were crying about **FA ele** which had 1/5 of the sustain of mirage and still got removed from the game as people were crying on the forum.

>

> -"LR ele are generally good if you have no stability because the ele will easily CC you, fighting a LR ele without stability is almost an auto loss"...I should use "was good" though

> -"Fire weaver is generally good if you have no condi clear because the burning will easily overwhelm you, without condi clear is almost an auto loss"..again I should use "was"

> -"Beastmaster rangers are generally good if you have no where to LoS because the pets will easily reach you, not dodging pets is almost an auto loss"..again "was good"

>

> Hey..I can make an argument for every single spec nerfed up to this point and **how you could have won if you'd knew how to LoS**

>

> I am loving this **new** LoS strategy proposal after everything **but your own profession** got nerfed

>

 

It's not the devs fault if everyone decides to play things that exceed at long ranges while anyone else that complains actually be playing stuff that exceeds at close range.

 

Being on open terrain is just as relative and part of the gameplay like using terrain to obstruct skills.

 

If I can beat all sorts of mesmers/mirages/chrono being Core Warrior, Core Revenant and Core Elementalist. I beg to differ that they are too OP when one of the best counters to say the conditions they use is to sit still and mitigate the most in the least skills as possible, which is definitely possible given Torment and Confusion efficiency can be nullified by afking.

 

I don't play Mesmer by the way. My mesmer is a second bank for my shards of glory/tomes of knowledge.

 

Mind you Core Rev took a big nerf when they changed all the resistance traits into a null 1 second each instead of fixing the Fiendtish Tenacity problem.

 

Core Warrior has always been an extremely potent yet ignored asset because Full Counter makes it extremely easy to sustain with all the faceroll.

 

Core Elementalist is definitely just hard to play but the big brain plays are extremely satisfying. Considering the skills, range denial and single target pressure one can have, a condi mirage will /definitely/ lose to a good one.

[viquing.8254]

Remember when mesmers were everywhere on LB...

Ho wait, it only appear during chronotank hypes (on EU at last.).

Hopefully people play less efficients classes for all remaining seasons.

By the way, see you next patch if it ever come.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

> >

> > It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

> >

> > It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

>

> "It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable"

>

> Where was it all this **integrity** when Anet was asked by this same community to nerf far weaker builds than mirage? There are people in this thread who **were crying about freaking Tornado....that Tornado elite** , people were crying about **FA ele** which had 1/5 of the sustain of mirage and still got removed from the game as people were crying on the forum.

>

> -"LR ele are generally good if you have no stability because the ele will easily CC you, fighting a LR ele without stability is almost an auto loss"...I should use "was good" though

> -"Fire weaver is generally good if you have no condi clear because the burning will easily overwhelm you, without condi clear is almost an auto loss"..again I should use "was"

> -"Beastmaster rangers are generally good if you have no where to LoS because the pets will easily reach you, not dodging pets is almost an auto loss"..again "was good"

>

> Hey..I can make an argument for every single spec nerfed up to this point and **how you could have won if you'd knew how to LoS**

>

> I am loving this **new** LoS strategy proposal after everything **but your own profession** got nerfed

>

 

HOW TO KILL MIRAGE 100% WORKING

 

Just walk away and put some distance; you shouldn't have any significant problem doing that since mirage is as slow as a rock; we are not talking about revenant-tier chasing abilities, guys.

- Thieves of all shapes and kinds: not even gonna take the bait that you can't outrun\outstealth a mirage. Don't bullshit me.

- Holosmiths\Warriors of all shapes and kinds\Rangers of all shapes and kinds: You have leaps. Tons of leaps. Use them.

- Scrappers\Guardians of all shapes and kinds\Necromancers: They may not be able to outrun this one but it's not like they gaf about mirage anyway, they can quite ignore a mirage

- Scourge\Reaper: Death charge for the scourge, spectral walk\wurm for both. AND the reveal

- Revenants of all shapes and kinds: that's one build that gets countered by condi mirage, those guys have some right to complain

 

You got out of range; now get to a no port spot, to block that axe3. Once you do that, all you have to do is auto attacking a slow moving rock with literally one dodge and 5s of stealth at most.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> Fighting shorts yesterday was the impetus for this post since the only way I could even touch him was by 1 shotting him from stealth. Otherwise I was perma-disabled while he dealt obscene damage while invulnerable. Idk why anet has allowed blurred frenzy to ramin as it is.

Okay let's assume this thread is meant seriously, then that's a different argument than in your first posting, where you spoke about invulnerability and not being disabled. The daze spam is extremely annoying and takes the targeted player out of the game in a team fight (basically like mesmer has been in GW1 - the player he focused (blackout, empathy etc.), couldn't do anything). Now the question is, whether this kind of impact fits into the mechanic of GW2 or is desired as a strategy.

 

The damage denial uptime (blur, mirage cloak) uptime is okay. If one player focuses the mirage while the mirage focuses someone else, that mirage dies fast or has to disengage. I am usually the one doing this in a pug, since most players don't get the message that this mirage build can totally turn a teamfight if it disables a key player.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Ovark.2514" said:

> > Fighting shorts yesterday was the impetus for this post since the only way I could even touch him was by 1 shotting him from stealth. Otherwise I was perma-disabled while he dealt obscene damage while invulnerable. Idk why anet has allowed blurred frenzy to ramin as it is.

> Okay let's assume this thread is meant seriously, then that's a different argument than in your first posting, where you spoke about invulnerability and not being disabled. The daze spam is extremely annoying and takes the targeted player out of the game in a team fight (basically like mesmer has been in GW1 - the player he focused (blackout, empathy etc.), couldn't do anything). Now the question is, whether this kind of impact fits into the mechanic of GW2 or is desired as a strategy.

>

> The damage denial uptime (blur, mirage cloak) uptime is okay. If one player focuses the mirage while the mirage focuses someone else, that mirage dies fast or has to disengage. I am usually the one doing this in a pug, since most players don't get the message that this mirage build can totally turn a teamfight if it disables a key player.

 

In GW1 there was a very large difference between classes and the roles they played. In GW1, a control Mesmer didn't have much actual damage and it didn't have much self sustain at all. So the level of control on the Mesmer was balanced, as he needed classes with damage spike to deal killing blows and dedicated supports to keep him alive. Same went for other archetypes. You deal a lot of damage, generally you had low sustain and little to no control. You have a lot of sustain & support, generally you had bad damage and little to no control.

 

GW2 is an entirely different ballgame. In GW2 we often see patchings were one class is just bloated in terms of damage dealt, sustain, mobility, crowd control, and utilities like stealth.

 

I'm not saying Mirage is OP, but there has been a reemergence of strong 1v1 Mirage play lately, so I can see why it is in question. In my opinion though, I don't think people should be so concerned with Mirage right now but rather Holosmith & Renegade. <- These 2 classes are just largely overperforming in this current patching, and boy is it getting old fast.

[KrHome.1920]

In GW1 you did not have mobility. You could not disengage from a control mesmer in GW1, you could just try to get rid of the hexes. In GW2 mobility is a form of damage avoidance, so it's fair that a control mesmer can also apply some damage.

 

I don't say the build is fine. I actually hate it, since I (as the necro in the group) am often the target of it and more often than not no one in my team pressures it, because no one is aware of it. But nevertheless it has counters.

 

In a 1v1 it can be kited, if necessary. The active defense (dazes) uptime is huge so it's hard to kill 1v1, but most builds don't have to die to it 1v1 due to sufficient mobility.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > Mirages are generally good if you have no where to LoS because all the clones will easily freecast you, fighting a mirage in the open is almost an auto loss.

> > >

> > > It's important to cleanse at the peak of condition bursts if you want to win, which is the "design" of conditions. They wouldn't do any damage otherwise, it's a matter of knowing how much health you're willing to lose before clearing, doing it too early is not effective and will make you fail.

> > >

> > > It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable.

> >

> > "It's strong but definitely not broken where it's unbeatable"

> >

> > Where was it all this **integrity** when Anet was asked by this same community to nerf far weaker builds than mirage? There are people in this thread who **were crying about freaking Tornado....that Tornado elite** , people were crying about **FA ele** which had 1/5 of the sustain of mirage and still got removed from the game as people were crying on the forum.

> >

> > -"LR ele are generally good if you have no stability because the ele will easily CC you, fighting a LR ele without stability is almost an auto loss"...I should use "was good" though

> > -"Fire weaver is generally good if you have no condi clear because the burning will easily overwhelm you, without condi clear is almost an auto loss"..again I should use "was"

> > -"Beastmaster rangers are generally good if you have no where to LoS because the pets will easily reach you, not dodging pets is almost an auto loss"..again "was good"

> >

> > Hey..I can make an argument for every single spec nerfed up to this point and **how you could have won if you'd knew how to LoS**

> >

> > I am loving this **new** LoS strategy proposal after everything **but your own profession** got nerfed

> >

>

> It's not the devs fault if everyone decides to play things that exceed at long ranges while anyone else that complains actually be playing stuff that exceeds at close range.

>

> Being on open terrain is just as relative and part of the gameplay like using terrain to obstruct skills.

>

> If I can beat all sorts of mesmers/mirages/chrono being Core Warrior, Core Revenant and Core Elementalist. I beg to differ that they are too OP when one of the best counters to say the conditions they use is to sit still and mitigate the most in the least skills as possible, which is definitely possible given Torment and Confusion efficiency can be nullified by afking.

>

> I don't play Mesmer by the way. My mesmer is a second bank for my shards of glory/tomes of knowledge.

>

> Mind you Core Rev took a big nerf when they changed all the resistance traits into a null 1 second each instead of fixing the Fiendtish Tenacity problem.

>

> Core Warrior has always been an extremely potent yet ignored asset because Full Counter makes it extremely easy to sustain with all the faceroll.

>

> Core Elementalist is definitely just hard to play but the big brain plays are extremely satisfying. Considering the skills, range denial and single target pressure one can have, a condi mirage will /definitely/ lose to a good one.

 

"one of the best counters to say the conditions they use is to sit still and mitigate the most in the least skills as possible, which is definitely possible given Torment and Confusion efficiency can be nullified by afking"

 

Are you actually serious ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion

 

I think you are confused....**this is not GW1 confusion**...it ticks **per second on top of extra dmg for casting**, now calculate the formula while using 1200 condition dmg from sage amulet:

 

Torment (scepter ) = [(0.045* 1200) + 15.9] * average of 8 stacks easily achievable with scepter with AA and n2 = **560 torment dmg per second**

Confusion (scepter+staff) = [(0.0975*1200) +49.5] * average of 7 stacks = **1165.5 confusion dmg per second**

 

So far the amount of dmg you suffer while afking is in total :**1725.5 dmg per second**...without even counting the burning dmg coming from staff bounce and clones all of this while following your "strategy" of standing still

 

I don't know what kind of mirages you've fought....but they were definitely not above bronze if they've lost to a core ele and again **here nobody is asking for further nerfs** the OP asked an opinion and I gave it, about the overall design of the elite spec which is bad and unhealthy **BUT** that doesn't mean it should be deleted from the game because people **paid for the expansion and to play mirage**.

 

My point is that **it's the dev's job to make sure the game is balanced and enjoyable for all** and players **have no right to decide what should be playable and what not**, nobody here is playing the game to make sure that @"Shao.7236" **(or anybody else)** is having fun! Nobody! What this means is as long as Mirage is counterable it shouldn't matter if it's fun to fight against or not and that goes for all professions

 

I am not contesting mesmer players , who have all the rights to demand a working class , the thing is Mesmer players should realize that players on other professions have the same rights........just how many times though these same mesmer mains have asked to **delete** other professions main points of strength? Everything goes full circles......

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> In GW1 you did not have mobility. You could not disengage from a control mesmer in GW1, you could just try to get rid of the hexes. In GW2 mobility is a form of damage avoidance, so it's fair that a control mesmer can also apply some damage.

>

> I don't say the build is fine. I actually hate it, since I (as the necro in the group) am often the target of it and more often than not no one in my team pressures it, because no one is aware of it. But nevertheless it has counters.

>

> In a 1v1 it can be kited, if necessary. The active defense (dazes) uptime is huge so it's hard to kill 1v1, but most builds don't have to die to it 1v1 due to sufficient mobility.

 

In GW1 mesmers had no dmg burst outside **Wastrel's Demise build** whose dmg could easily be negated with regeneration or as you 've said Hex removal, also GW1 mesmers had no stealth, teleport...or long chain of defensive Iframes like in GW2.....