WindBlade.8749 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I tough about it, isn't because we are not the commander in raids but a group of average elite aventurers and the hp are way big enough to simulate a relative view of the adventurers skills ? Which explain why a being like a legendary djin is way harder than god or elder dragons to kill simply because even 10 elite adventurer are way weaker than our player ? Which mean that even if a group of raider do way more damage and are more effiency in game stats than a random commander in his living story episode, it's the reverse in lore wise, where the adventure struggle harder because they do nothing compared to us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I don't think you should look for narrative explanations for differences that are there for gameplay reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia.9130 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Also, I think you'd get more luck in lore section, to theory craft about these things ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfb.7025 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Your point of view is interesting, but in my wn opinion i'd suggest not to try seeking gameplay justifications within lore as there are many, many things in the gameplay that contradicts the lore, its usually that way in order to enhance player experience. Charr should be more powerful than how they're depicted as playable races, they should be able to climb high cliffs and run on all fours as fast as someone with a mount. Open world enemies are highly dangerous lorewise, a devourer sting can kill an ogre in seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaniaxs.4519 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Most raid bosses are not even close to affecting the main story of the lore and the raid bosses should(?) Be harder than story instance bosses, right? The actual gods and EDs are in the main story and everyone are playing the story so they should be ez enough for everyone to kill but in the actual lore they are waaaaay stronger. And in raids bosses are too strong but in actual lore they arent that strong ( other than dhuum,qadim,deimos and some others ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 You are probably right mate, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitarskee.5738 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 It's quite simple. Personal story and LW is meant for single player so there bosses fight have to be optimally easy. Raids etc are meant to be challenging group content. Lore is not too important in case of instanced group content since you don't play it for story (although there are people who like to play it once to see what's the story behind this content). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation. My personal view on this matter has been: - when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in _One Path Ends_ not allowing other players to interfere in the fight) - when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander. This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world. I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco.2419 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation. > > My personal view on this matter has been: > - when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in _One Path Ends_ not allowing other players to interfere in the fight) > - when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander. > > This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world. > > I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise. This is how i think of it and it fits nicely in most situations. In drizlewood coast story we are covertly raiding the heart of the frost citadel while the forces are engaging a front line assault. Outside of the story we are part of that front line assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Conservation of Ninjutsu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation. > > My personal view on this matter has been: > - when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in _One Path Ends_ not allowing other players to interfere in the fight) > - when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander. > > This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world. > > I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise. This isn't quite right. There are multiple points throughout raids where one character is referred to as 'commander'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation. > > > > My personal view on this matter has been: > > - when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in _One Path Ends_ not allowing other players to interfere in the fight) > > - when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander. > > > > This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world. > > > > I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise. > > This isn't quite right. There are multiple points throughout raids where one character is referred to as 'commander'. Hence why I said: > I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise. In a raid squad 1 person is the commander, the other 9 are not. Given this shifts constantly, every one is and every is not the commander at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 There was a good discussion about the subject here. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1003042#Comment_1003042 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start) And scroll that event all year. nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 > @"lare.5129" said: > by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start) > And scroll that event all year. > nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 .. and scale squad size down to 5=50% and 7=75% then to compensate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusanyu.4057 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 game mechanics are separate from game narrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenella.2634 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 In the story we normally take on gods and dragons with armies on our side. The Commander may be rather talented, but is not THAT strong as an individual. Remember, when they have to duel Balthazar or Joko without support, they lose. So if we put this character in a 10 men squad and set them up against Raid encounters, it still fits the difficulty level presented in the game. Whether or not the canon Commander actually can be part of a raid team is up for interpretation, there are arguments for both sides and it is kept vague on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 > @"Linken.6345" said: > and scale squad size down to 5=50% and 7=75% then to compensate? no, there is no any point scale size. Same 10 persons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 > @"lare.5129" said: > by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start) > And scroll that event all year. > nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 .. What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions? Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. it has absolutely NOTHING to do with difficulty or change thereof. Please don't go off topic and keep difficulty suggestions and easy mode suggestions to their respective topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions? it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction. > Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" > > Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. > author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players. > > No he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions? > it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction. > > > Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. > author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players. > > Please reread what the topic creator wrote. You clearly misunderstood. This topic is NOT about difficulty of raids as in completion but rather as how it relates to lore. No one in this thread at any point discussed a change in difficulty. That would in fact make any explanation or tie in with lore inconsistent. Not every topic needs someone reminding us that some players are unable to complete raids, especially when it is unrelated to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 may it translation issues, half word not have easy translation for me in topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmoon.7986 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 How many god entities has the PC killed solo? Mordimoth was killed while an army was battling his mouth. Balthazar only lost because another god entity intervened. Kraitatorik took two battles and another dragon to kill. Sounds like dhuum must have been a pansy to only go down to 10 mortals. Abaddon was even weaker, only taking 8 heroes and blind cheerleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindBlade.8749 Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions? > it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction. > > > Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. > author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players. > > I just say my point of view on how Aenet explained that raids were way harder in gameplay even if the entities that we fight are less dangerous and powerful than the god like entities of the main quests. Which is because we are not the commanders in raids but random veterans adventurers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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