Nerf Necro Mobility

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"idontnoso.9850" said:

> PLEASE PPL NOTICE! LOOK WITH YOUR SPECIAL EYES!

 

im blind please help

[Filip.7463]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > Go pve, necro has lowest mobility in game

>

> You're missing the point, lmao

>

> Edit: apparently a lot of people missed the point :lol:

 

The point that necro has bad internet?

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Filip.7463" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > Go pve, necro has lowest mobility in game

> >

> > You're missing the point, lmao

> >

> > Edit: apparently a lot of people missed the point :lol:

>

> The point that necro has bad internet?

This is a teleport hack. Bad internet looks different.

 

When someone has bad internet, then he slows down or moves in a straight line and then teleports the distance he could have travelled in this time with normal movement:

position sync with server > connection lost (server has to guess what the player does) > next position sync with server > player is teleported to the actual position.

 

The moment you see someone speed up, it's a hack. And that necro does speed up.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > The point that necro has bad internet?

> This is a teleport hack. Bad internet looks different.

>

> When someone has bad internet, then he slows down or moves in a straight line and then teleports the distance he could have travelled in this time with normal movement:

> position sync with server > connection lost (server has to guess what the player does) > next position sync with server > player is teleported to the actual position.

>

> The moment you see someone speed up, it's a hack. And that necro does speed up.

 

I don't know... @"Filip.7463" seemed really sure of himself and good at PvP in his first post. I trust him.

[Shao.7236]

@"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

 

I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

[Touchme.1097]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> I'm learning so much about the average forum user's IQ in this thread, thanks everyone.

>

 

How funny, I do the same but I don't limit myself to this thread :)

[felix.2386]

remove 25% speed rune.

 

tbh, wurm + spec walk isnt low mobility at all.

unless you have spammable mobility like thief/rev, you can basically never catch a necro who saves the wurm or walk.

[RedAvenged.5217]

I think I’ve seen scourges running this trait in 75% of my few matches this week.

I think it’s the torch trait but w.e it is it’s insanely annoying

[Shao.7236]

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

>

> I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

 

Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

 

Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

[knite.1542]

Goodness. People too lazy to watch a 10 second video and just talk shit instead lol

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

> >

> > I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

>

> Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

>

> Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

I want to see the rune removed too, even though I am using it excessively, because necro isn't balanced without it currently. And this has to be adressed the same patch the rune is annihilated. The mobility and chill/cripple removal capability of other classes is way to high for the damage left after feb25/2020 a necro can apply when it is at range.

 

If you play reaper and you need 5 seconds to kill your target at melee range facetanking your damage, then you won't cut it anymore if everyone has the capability to kite you. Wurm and walk are 100% defensive tools. You can not re-engage a kiting target with both. Their mechanic does prevent exactly this.

 

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

> > >

> > > I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

> >

> > Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

> >

> > Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

> I want to see the rune removed too, even though I am using it excessively, because necro isn't balanced without it currently. And this has to be adressed the same patch the rune is annihilated. The mobility and chill/cripple removal capability of other classes is way to high for the damage left after feb25/2020 a necro can apply when it is at range.

>

> If you play reaper and you need 5 seconds to kill your target at melee range facetanking your damage, then you won't cut it anymore if everyone has the capability to kite you. Wurm and walk are 100% defensive tools. You can not re-engage a kiting target with both. Their mechanic does prevent exactly this.

 

I'd say the rune can be tweaked ( I lean to 40% movement speed. ) before being removed if it really shows to be a problem outside of just numbers, all I know is that as of "right now" the speed buff is too good and typically counters any builds that rely on melee damage by just moving away too fast from the range of any attacks before they start or complete.

 

To think that even if classes that possess movement speed buffs greater than swiftness outside of Superspeed can't even catch up to the rune itself, /forcing/ them to use it is an issue. Before anyone mentions because I know I tend to represent the Revenant class more than not. I'm aware that Herald with Rising Momentum can stack up to 90% movement speed on Impossible Odds, but that costs energy first off which already cuts so many options by the consumption and secondly Impossible Odds used to have Superspeed available on demand and that's now only reserved to Chaotic Release, which is fine I agree to those changes but have the right perspective here; It's a rune that allows you to avoid nearly all form of melee damage, not just buff movement speed and all it takes is one of the most common boon in the game for it. It's not right when specs that do have the ability to barely reach this fast have to invest as much to attempt at countering. You can keep a reasonable movement speed buff without getting free dodges because that's the issue here.

[Teratus.2859]

Necro's have the worst mobility in the game.. it is their biggest weakness as a class.

 

If you're fighting Necros with "crazy mobility" then chances are you're probably fighting a hacker with speed mods because Necros suck when it comes to mobility as they should.

 

Watching that video btw, 100% a speed hacker which is clearly evident by the way their character moves, what looks like a series of quickstep teleports instead of fluid movement.

Nerfing Necros mobility would do nothing but screw over legit players.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

> >

> > I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

>

> Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

>

> Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

 

Necro has some of the worst mobility in the game and you wanna kneecap them further because you can't just face-tank them without using the rune. Got it.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"knite.1542" said:

> Goodness. People too lazy to watch a 10 second video and just talk kitten instead lol

 

Isn't it amazing?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> Necro's have the worst mobility in the game.. it is their biggest weakness as a class.

 

That's arguable. The necromancer have access to 2 way to have 25% move speed (dagger trait/locust signet), relatively good sources of swiftness, wurm and spectral walk and a movement skill per e-spec. Not to forget that there exist runesets that grant 25% move speed.

 

It's not over the top, but I wouldn't say mesmer, guardian or revenant are better off in the mobility departement. I'd say that the necromancer lag behind when it come to gaps closer, not in pure mobility. It make it frustrating for a necromancer to chase after a foe, it make him vulnerable to kitting, but that's all. Devs tried to cover this "flaw" with skills that pull the foe and conditions that keep the foe close to the necromancer but the dynamic of the final result just can't hold a candle to a simple yet very effective leap or teleport.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

> > >

> > > I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

> >

> > Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

> >

> > Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

>

> Necro has some of the worst mobility in the game and you wanna kneecap them further because you can't just face-tank them without using the rune. Got it.

 

More wild assumptions, I know the topic is about Necro but me wanting to have speed runes balanced is definitely not just about Necro, more specifically my own profession for most part being meta because of them.

 

Face-Tanking necro? I've done that and they didn't need speed runes to keep up. They know what they have, besides, poor mobility is a broad statement. They can't easily travel around the map but they're definitely not bad at harrasing people.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > > @"bethekey.8314" Those are subtle hacks though. He doesn't have swiftness that would allow Speed Runes to benefit, though I would agree Speed Runes needs to go from PvP, they're a pretty toxic mechanic to deal with.

> > > >

> > > > I mean, EVERYONE has access to them, so there's no unfair advantage. I think what you meant is that YOU don't want to deal with anyone who can outrun you when you chose not to use those runes.

> > >

> > > Nah, you're forcing down your assumption to me. Speed Runes grants free damage avoidance to almost every single melee attacks in the game by merely holding W away from someone for an undefined amount of time. I'm able to accept that they're toxic and not properly tuned to exist as they are right now, I know this because I "USED" them many times before. 50 or even 40 percent increase is way more reasonable than it's current state outpacing every single utility in the game but Superspeed itself.

> > >

> > > Having something accessible by everyone doesn't mean that it's balanced, in fact that's like saying that everyone should just play the strongest build in the game and never look anywhere else. It's feature being this strong AND exclusive is actually the problem.

> >

> > Necro has some of the worst mobility in the game and you wanna kneecap them further because you can't just face-tank them without using the rune. Got it.

>

> More wild assumptions, I know the topic is about Necro but me wanting to have speed runes balanced is definitely not just about Necro, more specifically my own profession for most part being meta because of them.

>

> Face-Tanking necro? I've done that and they didn't need speed runes to keep up. They know what they have, besides, poor mobility is a broad statement. They can't easily travel around the map but they're definitely not bad at harrasing people.

 

Its not because necros have good mobility but because necromancer's mediocre mobility combined with good cc such as chills and cripples that help pull you back that make them effective. You have to admit, reaper has some useful tools for pulling in people who try to escape and right back into the death trap.

 

eles used to have better mobility, but personally after the nerfs, core ele is lookin rather flimsy.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > Necro's have the worst mobility in the game.. it is their biggest weakness as a class.

>

> That's arguable. The necromancer have access to 2 way to have 25% move speed (dagger trait/locust signet), relatively good sources of swiftness, wurm and spectral walk and a movement skill per e-spec. Not to forget that there exist runesets that grant 25% move speed.

>

> It's not over the top, but I wouldn't say mesmer, guardian or revenant are better off in the mobility departement. I'd say that the necromancer lag behind when it come to gaps closer, not in pure mobility. It make it frustrating for a necromancer to chase after a foe, it make him vulnerable to kitting, but that's all. Devs tried to cover this "flaw" with skills that pull the foe and conditions that keep the foe close to the necromancer but the dynamic of the final result just can't hold a candle to a simple yet very effective leap or teleport.

 

The so called "gap closers" are the most important mobility tools and Necro has very very little access to those.

The 25% move speed buffs and Swiftness are not all that useful in competitive play compared to the leaps and teleports most others have access to, that's the main difference that hurts the Necromancer and leaves it lacking in the mobility department.

Also the 25% move speed buff is dependant on your HP so that is already kinda useless in competitive since you're not going to sustain it long at all unless there is a lot of healing being thrown on you constantly.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@"Teratus.2859" But what about Signet of the Locust! It's a whopping 25% movement speed increase. Surely, this deserves to be nerfed, right? :o

Edit: And I forgot that it can be buffed to 33% if traited! :o

[Senteliks.2360]

Necro has mobility as a cripple compared to many other professions, I am trying to understand exact problem here? @"ollbirtan.2915" I can't tell whatever you are sarcastic or try to be, in your replies

[Teratus.2859]

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> @"Teratus.2859" But what about Signet of the Locust! It's a whopping 25% movement speed increase. Surely, this deserves to be nerfed, right? :o

> Edit: And I forgot that it can be buffed to 33% if traited! :o

 

Almost every class has access to a trait or signet (some have both) that grant's 25% movespeed increase, plus as other have mentioned the same effect can also be gained with runes and also consumables.

Swiftness grants an increased 33% making it superior to the permanent 25% increase gained by traits, runes and signets and Necro has far less access to this boon than most classes do, combined with a lack of gap closer's.

 

All in all having a permanent 25% increase on a trait or sigil really isn't that much of a benefit for a Necromancer since pretty much every class can gain this same benefit really easily and surpass it with swiftness, superspeed and gap closer skills, all of which Necromancer lack access to.

This puts the Necromancer at a major disadvantage in mobility compared to most other classes which is one reason why it's bulk is justified and it's access to hard CC like daze/stun and fear as well as soft movement CC's like cripple and chill.

Also it's access to pulls to which is unfortunately not that useful at times since for experienced players it's pretty obvious to see coming most of the time.

Necros are more designed to lock down opponents rather than chase them but with cleanse spam and some classes having too much access to stunbreaks and teleports/leap skills etc this locking down tactic is nowhere near as useful imo as both the offensive and defensive effectiveness of gap closer skills are.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Senteliks.2360" said:

> Necro has mobility as a cripple compared to many other professions, I am trying to understand exact problem here? @"ollbirtan.2915" I can't tell whatever you are sarcastic or try to be, in your replies

 

Well, the point is that it's arguable. If mobility is a matter of sustaining relatively high movement speed, the necromancer isn't lacking in any way. If mobility is a matter of having sudden short burst of movement bringing him from point A to point B in an instant he also does have reasonable amount of tools but with terrible QoL compared to other professions.

 

Thus, you can easily say that other professions have worse mobility (sustained movement speed) than the necromancer and you can hardly say that the necromancer lack the tools to move "instantly" from point A to B or reduce quickly the distance from the necromancer to it's foe. However, it's not wrong either to say that the necromancer's mobility (gap closer) is terrible due to how it's tools work and which skill slots they use. It's a matter of perception and players priorities.

 

The necromancer objectively don't "need" more mobility, an e-spec with a gap closer on it's e-spec weapon instead of it's shroud, maybe, but that's all.

[maddoctor.2738]

Excluding a possible hack, which is unlikely, you just experienced the amazing necromancer skill called lag. The player in your video clearly skips frames, now that's either on your end, their end, or the server end. There is special skill used there.