Regarding Adding New Races

[Super Hayes.6890]

Yeah, so I get that adding a new race will take work. That is the most obvious thing everyone seems to enjoy pointing out over and over again. Fact is they should figure out how to accomplish adding a new race because it would sell an expansion to the game. Good for business! I will be happy to repeat what a lot of players have already said. I want a new race to be added and am willing to pay for it. I hope they are considering it.

[Healix.5819]

If they wanted to add a new race just for the sake of having it as a selling point, there are ways they could easily do it, but I doubt they would. ArenaNet wants something that would be unique, which means expensive and unlikely to happen. If they went the cheap route, they could just do undead for example, which would essentially be a slightly modified human with a morphed voice.

[lokh.2695]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Race doesn't matter for many things in GW2. You get a different look on your char and I know and apreciate FashionWars a lot. You get a new city(I don't see them that often, I'm either not there doing something else or I'm in a hub like the elon lilly). You get a new set of cultural armor/weapons (again ok for FashionWars but obtainable through other means if it's just amount X of new skins). You get a new story maybe, a personal story that starts some time after HoT/PoF and ties in to Exp ANet would sell with the new race (fine by me, but we would get new story anyway with Xpac3 and LS5). Maybe a New starter Zone, that could be neat, on the other hand new maps could be introduced w/o a new race attached to it.

>

> Now. **What would adding a new race achieve, besides a new character model, that can only be achieved by implementing a new race into the game?** What do you hope for in this addition to the game? I'm asking a serious question because I've been thinking about this. adding a new race means lots of busy work and stuff we as players can't even think of that adds to the visible/audible stuff. I'm curious if players would be willing to sacrifice content for a new playable race, rather than having ANet spend all ressources into creating maps, stories, skins, items without having to implement a new race along with it?

>

> I think about HoT, where they added all the things players expected from an expansion: maps, story, elites, systems like masteries, gliding, crafting plus they added the revenant, a new class and they were apperantly working on it for a while. How did it turn out? The story felt rushed and we know parts have been scrapped close to release because there just wasn't enough time to do it justice. Rev still needs fixes to be just on par with other classes. I'm not talking about dps or viability here, I'm talking about basic things like not having acces to racial skills or not being able to use more legends under water(HoT was released w/o UW content in mind so they didn't think about it during designing the rev). I can imagine how adding a new race, and let's assume a new race would come with a city and a starter map, would draw many resources off of other worthwhile projects.

~Me in: ["A NEW RACE." July 17, 2018](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/606853/#Comment_606853 ""A NEW RACE." July 17, 2018"), highlited the question I would like to ask.

 

To add something new as we are talking about story: The Tengu, being the xenophobic race they are, kept to themself when Zhaitan attacked. They stayed in the Dominion of winds when the rest of the known world fought Scarlet at their doorstep. We fought Mordremoth without them. Yes they were there. But were they of any help? If the Tengu would come to the game(It won't happen and even if it did it wouldn't change anything), their story could just as well start at the same time as the expansion does take place. There is no need to shoehorn them into events they stayed away from. I imagine, if they ever did Tengu(they won't), players would get a short personal story, set before the events of the expac, dealing with the racial and local flavor of things, just as we did with every other race, then jumping right into the story of the expac.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > > Even so, ANet and especially NCSoft are not tiny indie devs, NCSoft is one of the biggest gaming companies there is, so they can easily do this.

> >

> > They certainly _can_ do this. The question is _should_ they? What planned features & content are you willing to give up — not just for you, but for the entire community — so that they can spend more of the budget on script and acting than they already do? No matter how big a company is, there's a limit to what it can produce (and still turn a profit). Successful companies have to trade off among all the cool stuff they could offer and select just a few.

> >

> > ANet has said, more than once, that adding a new race uses much the same resources as needed for Living World, including writing, acting, and design. And they've chosen to stick with LW, because they believe that it will provide the best experience for the greatest number of their customers (and potential future customers).

> >

> > There's nothing wrong with imagining what a future race might be, what it would do, how it would integrate with stories told and stories yet untold. Just as long as we remember that ANet has, themselves, told us that their current plans, for as far out as they can see, don't include a new race.

>

> I would like to know just what amazing feature and content the community is expecting by now that would be hampered because one of the biggest and most successful gaming companies decided to add a new race to GW2. Clearly this AAA developer would have to sacrifice much for this, so i really want to know what anyone is expecting. The only true feature we've gotten that affects gameplay are the Specializations and it's been done extremely badly in an attempt to emulate the subclass system of GW1.

 

I would like to know what amazing features and content that adding a new race would bring which couldn’t be brought on by simply introducing them into the living story?

 

The only benefit that I see with a new race is purely cosmetic and for those that want to RP. Everything else can be added without the need for them to be a playable race.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> I would like to know just what amazing feature and content the community is expecting by now that would be hampered because one of the biggest and most successful gaming companies decided to add a new race to GW2.

If you would re-read the quotes by the developers, then you'd see that they can deliver a new LW story on the current cadence of 3-5 releases per year _or_ they can skip some of those stories for a new race. That includes the artwork and writing and acting. And retooling. (It's not a 1:1 relationship.) It does not take into account the future costs of additional scripting needs, additional actor time, additional artwork needs (to fit skins with the new race), etc.

 

Now, I can see why some people would prefer a new race, but ANet thinks it's too small a group compared to those who enjoy what is already being delivered.

 

 

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> Yeah, so I get that adding a new race will take work. That is the most obvious thing everyone seems to enjoy pointing out over and over again. Fact is they should figure out how to accomplish adding a new race because it would sell an expansion to the game. Good for business!

 

ANet doesn't believe it would be good for business. If they did, they would have changed gears and made room for a new race or would be making room for a new race.

 

Instead, they have doubled- and trebled down on previous remarks: there are no current plans and they are not revisiting the idea for their current long range planning.

 

Part of the reason ANet has been successful is that they are very careful to offer enough content that appeals to enough people who are willing to spend on the game (whether expacs or gem shop). It's easy to _say_ that they should do new races and new profs and new stories and new maps (or extend the content in the old ones); it's another thing to implement that and still turn a profit.

 

 

 

[Aridon.8362]

Rolling beetle should've been a race not a mount just saying.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I still think new races are better for the health of the game long term but I do agree that in the short term their living story releases have revitalized the game.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> Yeah, so I get that adding a new race will take work. That is the most obvious thing everyone seems to enjoy pointing out over and over again. Fact is they should figure out how to accomplish adding a new race because it would sell an expansion to the game. Good for business! I will be happy to repeat what a lot of players have already said. I want a new race to be added and am willing to pay for it. I hope they are considering it.

 

Basically, yes. You can tell a lot of people posting on threads like these aren't very good at outside-the-box thinking, and Anet gets away with the "it's difficult" excuse way too often IMO.

[lokh.2695]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > Yeah, so I get that adding a new race will take work. That is the most obvious thing everyone seems to enjoy pointing out over and over again. Fact is they should figure out how to accomplish adding a new race because it would sell an expansion to the game. Good for business! I will be happy to repeat what a lot of players have already said. I want a new race to be added and am willing to pay for it. I hope they are considering it.

>

> Basically, yes. You can tell a lot of people posting on threads like these aren't very good at outside-the-box thinking, and Anet gets away with the "it's difficult" excuse way too often IMO.

 

What would you get from a new playable race, that couldn't be done without? Beside the new character model of course.

 

I think most ppl would just see the limited ressources put to better use elsewhere.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > Yeah, so I get that adding a new race will take work. That is the most obvious thing everyone seems to enjoy pointing out over and over again. Fact is they should figure out how to accomplish adding a new race because it would sell an expansion to the game. Good for business! I will be happy to repeat what a lot of players have already said. I want a new race to be added and am willing to pay for it. I hope they are considering it.

>

> Basically, yes. You can tell a lot of people posting on threads like these aren't very good at outside-the-box thinking, and Anet gets away with the "it's difficult" excuse way too often IMO.

 

Or we know that it requires more than just copy pasting a couple files to add a new race to the game and that a new race would bring absolutely nothing new that other, already grossly underdeveloped, race can't.

 

 

 

[Kelly.7019]

As Lonely Island has said "Anything is Possible"... we can sit now, that was never gunna happen. we have mounts, also was never going to happen. And underwater skills got addressed. I'm sure devs are working on stuff we think won't ever happen, but they are. When it gets released, that's really the question. Most likely with new Xpacs i'd say. HoT had the Revenant. PoF had Mounts. Xpac 3... who knows! Tengu is a highly discussed race that's wanted and can be based in part based off the charr model. I'd say its a real possibility if they decide to go that route. Story could be totally new for them. I'm sure devs can integrate it. Think of it as more... we've seen parts of the story but not the full book.

[Magek.4718]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Just no. Either fully integrated new races or none.

>

> You don't get the difficulty behind new races: armor sets, new body types,... This isn't just about story content. If it was, we'd probably already have gotten new playable races.

>

> I still hope there will some added in the near future, but that might just remain but a dream. :/

 

Other games aren't held back by that, why should this one be?

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Magek.4718" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > Just no. Either fully integrated new races or none.

> >

> > You don't get the difficulty behind new races: armor sets, new body types,... This isn't just about story content. If it was, we'd probably already have gotten new playable races.

> >

> > I still hope there will some added in the near future, but that might just remain but a dream. :/

>

> Other games aren't held back by that, why should this one be?

 

Because, for some reasons i truly do not understand, people seem to think ANet and NCSoft are a tiny indie company with very little resources and not one of the biggest gaming companies on the market.

[Sparwa.6830]

They could allow us to play as awakened. This would be a much smaller use of resources as they could use the human model with slight alterations. The story could be retrofit to have Joko casting an illusion spell on the player character and having them spy on the Krytans. The player character could then turn on Joko in PoF with just a little more dialog. Most of the voice work could be human with a filter or something. Add in a few weak racial skills, and you have a cheap new undead race.

 

Not extremely exciting, but a bit more practical maybe.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Magek.4718" said:

> Other games aren't held back by that, why should this one be?

 

Other games with fully voiced expansions add new races often? Like which one?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Kelly.7019" said:

> we have mounts, also was never going to happen.

The big difference is that ANet never said mounts weren't going to happen. In fact, they were working on them from the start.

In contrast, they have said that they aren't working on a new race now and they have no plans to do so.

 

> And underwater skills got addressed.

Which they said they would do, eventually.

 

ANet never comments on things that are in progress but aren't near ready yet. They only give us an update when implementation is near, when they want to hype, or, in the case of new races, to tell us: no, it's not going to happen soon and no, it's not in their current set of priorities.

 

Of course things can (and will change), so what's true today might not be important in 6 months. But for now, and unlike the usual situation, we already know what they have decided.

 

****

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> Because, for some reasons i truly do not understand, people seem to think ANet and NCSoft are a tiny indie company with very little resources and not one of the biggest gaming companies on the market.

Who seems to think that they are tiny? or with few resources? No one is saying that a new race would be bad for the game or that ANet couldn't make it happen if they chose to. Why is it hard to accept that they have said that they have chosen to work on other things instead?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> Problem with attempting to bypass the story is . . you can't. ANet would *still* have to re-voice *all* of Season 2, HoT, Season 3, PoF, *and* Season 4, even if the Personal Story were simplified. ...Even dungeons would need new voice work. >.>

> The "Commander" is just too important to the story. And saying "Oh, this character can't do instances" is pretty much a coffin nail on the whole idea.

>

> At this point, the most viable way to get new "races" is probably through Outfits. We'd get the look, at least.

 

Which brings up another point.... the only reason this idea of exporting characters in GW1 worked, is because the player was NEVER the main character. We were literally an interchangeable henchman that just happened to be there the whole time. And while we were more centered in Eye of the North, we were STILL part of a Duo in each story ark, where the others normally fell completely into the background.

 

The Commander is at the Forefront of EVERYTHING in GW2. That demands a level of continuity that you can't just ignore, without having to write every story as episodic. Ever story arc is building on the last, and building towards the next. Its too late to change this without ending the current story, and the Commander with it. Theres been too much handwaving thus far that its already impacted how the story can be enacted. Hand waving it further only makes that problem worse. They could decide to just lamp shade the whole thing, and ignore continuity...... but unlike most game stories, people are actually invested in this one. And given how awesome GW1's story was overall, I'd like to see this one at least finish with a decent ending, rather then end up with a Disney-Marvel/Starwars or Lost-esque "dropped most of the story threads for convenience reasons" ending.

 

I hope its not too late for Utopia.

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Kelly.7019" said:

> > we have mounts, also was never going to happen.

> The big difference is that ANet never said mounts weren't going to happen. In fact, they were working on them from the start.

> In contrast, they have said that they aren't working on a new race now and they have no plans to do so.

>

> > And underwater skills got addressed.

> Which they said they would do, eventually.

>

> ANet never comments on things that are in progress but aren't near ready yet. They only give us an update when implementation is near, when they want to hype, or, in the case of new races, to tell us: no, it's not going to happen soon and no, it's not in their current set of priorities.

>

> Of course things can (and will change), so what's true today might not be important in 6 months. But for now, and unlike the usual situation, we already know what they have decided.

>

> ****

> > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > Because, for some reasons i truly do not understand, people seem to think ANet and NCSoft are a tiny indie company with very little resources and not one of the biggest gaming companies on the market.

> Who seems to think that they are tiny? or with few resources? No one is saying that a new race would be bad for the game or that ANet couldn't make it happen if they chose to. Why is it hard to accept that they have said that they have chosen to work on other things instead?

 

Because that's not what people are saying. Read around, every time this comes up, they mention that they have little resources, that they [a AAA company btw] would have to remove vital resources from one thing to move them to new classes or races, etc.

[Biff.5312]

Why not just have an 'outfit' that gives the appearance of a race change? Or, a tonic that persists in combat?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> Because that's not what people are saying. Read around, every time this comes up, they mention that they have little resources, that they [a AAA company btw] would have to remove vital resources from one thing to move them to new classes or races, etc.

 

No, people aren't saying that. People are saying that ANet has _limited_ resources, which means they have to pick & choose which projects to work on. The types of resources that go into a new race use the same people that work on the Living World, that work on organizing the actors, that work on armor & other types of artwork. And, long term, it increases the burden on all the teams (since it means more armor to design, more actors, for each & every patch that needs them). They aren't going to double the work on those people, so they choose between comparable long-term goals.

 

I really do understand that you'd love to see a new race, as would I. For me, it would be a lot of fun and, in some ways, more interesting than "yet another" LW season. But tons of people never play additional races, so it's nothing for them. And, even for folks such as myself, it might just be a "one and done" sort of situation. Like, I wouldn't play another Norn unless they took all the other races away. The voice acting bugs me, the slow-gait bugs me, and it might be nice to see the armor and weapons such detail, it makes the rest of the game harder to see.

 

ANet recognizes these various points of view. And their calculus leads them to conclude, if they have to choose (and they do), that continuing with the current cadence of new stories every 2-3 months is the better choice for more people. They also choose not to interrupt the cadence with a special project that digresses their attention.

 

I don't ask you to agree with their decision. I support people posting & reposting the suggestion to add new races, to speculate which ones might work best. Because Anet will revisit the idea, even if it's only for GW3 in 25 years. And, at the same time, I think it's important to know what ANet has said about new races, and why. They are not working on them now, their future plans don't include new races, because they don't think it's the best use of their _limited_ resources, not because they think it's a bad idea.

[Klipso.8653]

Adding a new race would require every single armor piece and outfit to be redesigned to include each race. And also an animation created for every class skill and elite spec in the game.

 

The only way around that is by using an existing race frame, at which point we would just be playing re-skinned humans instead of an actual new race.

 

Also an entire set of voice acting for default, previous, and future content.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> Why not just have an 'outfit' that gives the appearance of a race change? Or, a tonic that persists in combat?

 

Outfit. Can't mount with a tonic, and mounts are now waaay integrated into the game.

[kharmin.7683]

Would the game survive a year (or maybe more?) with no new content while the team worked on implementing a new race? Even if it were announced that this was their direction, how many would leave because of content drought? Heck, we have enough complaints about the amount of content and the release timing as it is now.

[perilisk.1874]

Maybe that could be the new expansion's mastery. The commander learns he could see anomalies for a while because he is actually a anomaly himself, an unstable fractal entity that latched onto a dead hero's persona in the Mists to take shape in Tyria, much like Razah, with some fair bit of plotting and influence by Lyssa.

 

Having had his mind blown, he then learns to take on completely new racial forms (Tengu, Largos, Quaggan, Kodan, etc.) that grant innate bonuses or movement abilities and optionally new utilities, while still having access to existing skills. He can even learn forms of the main 5 races and get access to their racial skills.

 

The new forms wouldn't have armor sets of their own (saving some effort), but they could sell different skins for those forms in the gem store. And since it's just the shape of a new race, rather than the real thing, there would be no story considerations.

[Cynder.2509]

I know it would be quite difficult to program but my suggestion would be seperate log in/character selection screens where it is split between characters existing in two different versions of the game.