The obstacle preventing me from returning to GW2 - Living Story

[Swagger.1459]

> @"juhna.4980" said:

> I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

 

“Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't”... Exactly.

 

This is a “you” issue, not an Anet issue. You enabled your own “roadblock” to happen.

 

Support the game you love, and the company that doesn’t charge a monthly fee to play, and buy the story stuff. Stop trying to place blame on the company that handed the story out for free to you before.

 

 

[Lilith Hellflower.4015]

I do not know where this kind of notion comes from (the I bought x-pac y so give me all followup content for free and the I did not start playing the game back then so this seems punishing to me kind of thought). Guild Wars 2 **is, has been and most likely allways will be** a **_BUY TO PLAY_** game. The _only_ part of the game, that is free to play is a version of the core game with some restrictions imposed on it. Every Expansion and every Episode of Living World content is it's own product of sorts. Those products you are expected to buy if you want to play them as per the buy to play model. The fact they are **offering** a 100% discount + instant unlock on login deal for the most recently released LW Episode is simply a PR messure to encourage active play (or at the very least one short login every few months). It has nothing to do with "punishing newer players" or unjust money grabbing - those that buy the LW episodes simply are those that missed a onetime special sale on that episode. In economics, if you want a product that can be bought somewhere and you miss such a onetime special sale you cannot expect to get the benefits of such a sale when it suits you, you have to buy the product at full price or wait for it to go on some sort of sale (which it might never do) to get it at a reduced price. That fact does not change whether we are talking about a car, a game or anything else.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > I still think changing the terminology could help a lot. Living Story is unique to GW2 and therefore unfamiliar to most people. All they can tell is it's 'the story' which sounds like it should be part of the expansion. If they said something like "Our latest DLC - A Star To Guide Us - is now available. As always it will be free for players who log in during the promotional period and then available in the gem store for 200 gems" I think a lot more people would understand what it actually is and therefore understand why they're being asked to pay for it.

> > >

> > > The way I see it I play 2 MMOs. One releases an update every 4 months which I have to pay between £8 and £20 for (depending on the size of the update and if they choose to call it a DLC or an expansion pack which will later become a DLC), or I can pay £108 a year to get them "free". The other releases an update every 3 months which I can get for free if I log in within 3 months, or pay £2 to buy later (and a bigger update every 2-3 years I have to pay £25 for). I don't even have to add it up to work out which of those is a better deal for me. But I guess that perception is very dependant on which other games you play.

> >

> > Its not unique it has a diff name but in essence its a paid dlc with an extremly generous "free aquisition" period

>

> That's exactly what I said. They're doing the same thing other games do but have a unique name for it, which makes it sound like something weird and different so new players don't immediately understand what it is and why they have to pay for it. If they used the same name everyone else does it would be immediately clear.

>

> Imagine going to a restaurant, choosing a meal and being asked if you want to pay extra for 1 item to be brought to the table earlier. Your first reaction would probably be to wonder why on earth that should cost extra. But if they ask if you want a starter you immediately understand the system. Same here. Ask players to pay extra for the "Living Story" and they're wondering why they story isn't part of the expansion they're already paying for. Ask them to buy additional DLC and they get it.

 

Eso calls ots expansions chapters and its dlc dlc. A new player will just have to ask in game and ppl will explain.

 

Although i agree considering that lw is a relic of a past it now just serves mostly to confuse ppl. Nothing that asking in game cant solve tho.

[Offair.2563]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> For me, $2.50 for a map, story, Legendary, Raid/Fractal/Mount/Mastery and more seems quite reasonable. Especially when the studio also offers the content at no charge for very little effort (logging in once per multi-month period).

>

> Each to their own, I suppose.

 

This. Also add gold>gems to it so it won't even cost you 2.5$ but a couple of hours purely grinding gold which is fairly easy nowadays.

[Hesacon.8735]

LW episodes go on sale for a discount several times a year.

[CaboSoul.1204]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> > > > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > > > Do not misunderstand. I have spent many times the base cost of this game over the years. I want to spend that money on what I want. Not on the story.

> > >

> > > Well, you can save up a little money and choose to not buy stuff in the gemstore for a while, and use that money instead on the LW episode you need. Or you could save up some in-game gold and convert it. You can also never pay for them when they come out again if you log in once every couple months. The point is that it's either this, or we're all forced to have a monthly subscription fee, *which I don't think anybody wants*.

> >

> > Actually it's more like "either way you'll have to pay" but the current way also allows you to pay with gold.

> >

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > > > The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

> > >

> > > Active players get a 100% discount on a DLC episode if they log in once between when it’s released and when the next DLC or expansion is released. I don’t know many games where DLC’s are just given away for free. It’s not a punishment.

> >

> > With F2P games perhaps but GW2 is not a F2P game.

>

> Do you see any non-F2P game that gives DLC away for free?

 

Monster Hunter

[ugrakarma.9416]

I find the LW model a creative way of sustaining the business and very fair.

 

[Squirrel.6318]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> > For people saying that you could buy it with gold, that's fair, I can't complain about that, but I think a lot of us don't have the time to consistently grind. I have about 1500 hours and i've only had 100 gold once.

>

> 200 gems is currently 66g. Just selling the mystic coins and laurels from the login rewards is currently worth 60g every 28 days.

>

 

please delete post

[nottsgman.8206]

> @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> > @"Healix.5819" said:

> > > @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> > > For people saying that you could buy it with gold, that's fair, I can't complain about that, but I think a lot of us don't have the time to consistently grind. I have about 1500 hours and i've only had 100 gold once.

> >

> > 200 gems is currently 66g. Just selling the mystic coins and laurels from the login rewards is currently worth 60g every 28 days.

> >

>

> They don't let you buy 200 gems, you can only buy 400 gems with gold at minimum. So that's 120g.

 

you can buy any amount of gems with gold by clicking the 'custom exchange' button and putting in the amount of gems you want, so yes, you can buy 200 gems

 

 

[Squirrel.6318]

> @"nottsgman.8206" said:

> > @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> > > @"Healix.5819" said:

> > > > @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> > > > For people saying that you could buy it with gold, that's fair, I can't complain about that, but I think a lot of us don't have the time to consistently grind. I have about 1500 hours and i've only had 100 gold once.

> > >

> > > 200 gems is currently 66g. Just selling the mystic coins and laurels from the login rewards is currently worth 60g every 28 days.

> > >

> >

> > They don't let you buy 200 gems, you can only buy 400 gems with gold at minimum. So that's 120g.

>

> you can buy any amount of gems with gold by clicking the 'custom exchange' button and putting in the amount of gems you want, so yes, you can buy 200 gems

>

>

 

yeah thanks I just figured that out just now. was trying to figure out how to delete my post, but then realize I couldn't

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

 

> I would think that the rest they sell in the cash shop plus the sales of the box games/expansions is enough.

 

On what basis are you able to claim it's "enough" ? The game started out without charging for Living World and without expansions, with ANet saying they hoped to continue that model. They added expansions. And they started charging for LS3, giving it away for free to anyone logging on while it was "live."

 

We can quibble about what's "enough" for a gaming studio to make in order to support its ambitions, its fans, and its stockholders. But clearly, if cash shop plus 'box' copies of the game were getting the job done, we wouldn't be seeing 2k MountFits, doubling down on loot boxes, and yes, charges for Living World.

 

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"CaboSoul.1204" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> > > > > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > > > > Do not misunderstand. I have spent many times the base cost of this game over the years. I want to spend that money on what I want. Not on the story.

> > > >

> > > > Well, you can save up a little money and choose to not buy stuff in the gemstore for a while, and use that money instead on the LW episode you need. Or you could save up some in-game gold and convert it. You can also never pay for them when they come out again if you log in once every couple months. The point is that it's either this, or we're all forced to have a monthly subscription fee, *which I don't think anybody wants*.

> > >

> > > Actually it's more like "either way you'll have to pay" but the current way also allows you to pay with gold.

> > >

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > > > > The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

> > > >

> > > > Active players get a 100% discount on a DLC episode if they log in once between when it’s released and when the next DLC or expansion is released. I don’t know many games where DLC’s are just given away for free. It’s not a punishment.

> > >

> > > With F2P games perhaps but GW2 is not a F2P game.

> >

> > Do you see any non-F2P game that gives DLC away for free?

>

> Monster Hunter

 

I probably should have been more specific and mentioned large scale MMO’s. Even I can list some games that do free releases as I played some on my phone many years ago.

[ImTasty.2163]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> I'm sure that if EA did something like this with a game, people would be screaming all over social media that EA were nickle and diming players again by charging them full price for an expansion but not giving them the full expansion and charging players extra for parts of it they cut out or released separately.

>

> The point for me is not the cost, but the fact that they charge for it at all. Especially new players who never played this game are in a way punished for not hearing or being interested in the game sooner. It's just the principle of the thing. I generally feel that ArenaNet have been relatively fair in their monetization of the game, but there are a few things that I find unfortunate and this is one of them.

>

> Again, I did buy them as the cost overall for buying them wasn't too bad but to be honest, you can get either of the expansions for less than a full LS season. The typical issue that I find unfortunate in games with cash shops is where they make the game tedious to create a need or wish for alleviation which they then sell at their cash shop. Locking story content with daily zones behind an added cost when you have bought a core game and the expansions already is just not right to me.

>

> Most sub games do free DLC, so it's right to say that they have to make their money somewhere, but they already do. There is the option of not charging extra for the LS chapters and make slightly less profit. I don't think it's one of the biggest money makers in the cash shop and there currently is enough on sale there I would've thought.

>

> If they can sell unbreakable lockpicks for the price of an expansion etc. well, you get my point. I think it's an odd thing to do but I accepted it because well I have little choice really. In retrospect I could've skipped season 2 because it doesn't bring you new zones and there's a lot of blah blah in that story but season 3 and 4 do bring new zones so you kinda have to buy them if you missed them for whatever reason. Yes GW2, at least compared to other games, has a relatively reasonable cash shop, but that doesn't mean they're saints and it doesn't mean that they never ride the borders of what's reasonable.

>

> Some of you staunch defenders may not want to hear it but I think charging for expansions and then for LS on top of that for people who missed it is just a bit of a weird thing.

 

Honestly if EA did something like this I would say good job EA unironically.

 

The current system is very fair honestly. If you log in once you get it for free. If not you have a small price to pay. Even for new people it is not an issue. The gold is easy to come by and the cost is very cheap at 250 gems. A single 10 dollar purchase can net you 3 episodes. If you want to compare it to EA what would actually happen is you would spend 12 dollars just to get one episode.

 

I say this as someone who purchased almost the entirety of Season 2, the current practice is not a punishment. You weren't there to play it. The current system is more than fair and is very easy to earn the gold to buy it. I also say this as someone who only plays for an hour or two so I consider myself to fall into a pretty casual group.

[Etria.3642]

I forgot to add...I am DELIGHTED you can pay a small fee to get things you missed.

 

Some games just have it be gone forever. This one at least learned after season 1. That is still something I would pay for like I did season two.

 

Instead of thinking punishment think of it as opportunity. Wouldn't it be awful not to be able to get past chapters at all?

[Teratus.2859]

> @"juhna.4980" said:

> I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

 

I wouldn't call it a roadblock.. You could easily farm the gold to buy the living world you missed rather than outright pay for it.

I can understand your stance though, as someone who's played for 6 years without missing living world the fact that newer players will have to either buy or farm to unlock the past living world episodes is something that is always in the back of my head when I want to reccomend the game to people.

 

The only real solution I can think of that I would think is somewhat fair and encouraging would be to include past living world episodes as a bonus for purchasing the more expensive special editions of the expansions.

Some might think that's unfair to them who paid up for those episodes and it would probably start another argument like with the free account upgrade on HoT purchase but I think people would be far more inclined to buy a special edition over the standard if they got the living world they missed with it.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> > So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> > Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

>

> I wouldn't call it a roadblock.. You could easily farm the gold to buy the living world you missed rather than outright pay for it.

> I can understand your stance though, as someone who's played for 6 years without missing living world the fact that newer players will have to either buy or farm to unlock the past living world episodes is something that is always in the back of my head when I want to reccomend the game to people.

>

> The only real solution I can think of that I would think is somewhat fair and encouraging would be to include past living world episodes as a bonus for purchasing the more expensive special editions of the expansions.

> Some might think that's unfair to them who paid up for those episodes and it would probably start another argument like with the free account upgrade on HoT purchase but I think people would be far more inclined to buy a special edition over the standard if they got the living world they missed with it.

 

Well they can use some of the 4k gems to buy the living world cant they?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

 

> Well they can use some of the 4k gems to buy the living world cant they?

 

Good idea.

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > > I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> > > So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> > > Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

> >

> > I wouldn't call it a roadblock.. You could easily farm the gold to buy the living world you missed rather than outright pay for it.

> > I can understand your stance though, as someone who's played for 6 years without missing living world the fact that newer players will have to either buy or farm to unlock the past living world episodes is something that is always in the back of my head when I want to reccomend the game to people.

> >

> > The only real solution I can think of that I would think is somewhat fair and encouraging would be to include past living world episodes as a bonus for purchasing the more expensive special editions of the expansions.

> > Some might think that's unfair to them who paid up for those episodes and it would probably start another argument like with the free account upgrade on HoT purchase but I think people would be far more inclined to buy a special edition over the standard if they got the living world they missed with it.

>

> Well they can use some of the 4k gems to buy the living world cant they?

 

Providing they buy the ultimate.

That's not the point though.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > > > I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> > > > So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> > > > Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

> > >

> > > I wouldn't call it a roadblock.. You could easily farm the gold to buy the living world you missed rather than outright pay for it.

> > > I can understand your stance though, as someone who's played for 6 years without missing living world the fact that newer players will have to either buy or farm to unlock the past living world episodes is something that is always in the back of my head when I want to reccomend the game to people.

> > >

> > > The only real solution I can think of that I would think is somewhat fair and encouraging would be to include past living world episodes as a bonus for purchasing the more expensive special editions of the expansions.

> > > Some might think that's unfair to them who paid up for those episodes and it would probably start another argument like with the free account upgrade on HoT purchase but I think people would be far more inclined to buy a special edition over the standard if they got the living world they missed with it.

> >

> > Well they can use some of the 4k gems to buy the living world cant they?

>

> Providing they buy the ultimate.

> That's not the point though.

 

Well you did say encurage to buy the expensive version its already encuraged you get discount on the 4k gems that you can then use to unlock the story.

Why should it be further encuraged?

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > > > > I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> > > > > So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> > > > > Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

> > > >

> > > > I wouldn't call it a roadblock.. You could easily farm the gold to buy the living world you missed rather than outright pay for it.

> > > > I can understand your stance though, as someone who's played for 6 years without missing living world the fact that newer players will have to either buy or farm to unlock the past living world episodes is something that is always in the back of my head when I want to reccomend the game to people.

> > > >

> > > > The only real solution I can think of that I would think is somewhat fair and encouraging would be to include past living world episodes as a bonus for purchasing the more expensive special editions of the expansions.

> > > > Some might think that's unfair to them who paid up for those episodes and it would probably start another argument like with the free account upgrade on HoT purchase but I think people would be far more inclined to buy a special edition over the standard if they got the living world they missed with it.

> > >

> > > Well they can use some of the 4k gems to buy the living world cant they?

> >

> > Providing they buy the ultimate.

> > That's not the point though.

>

> Well you did say encurage to buy the expensive version its already encuraged you get discount on the 4k gems that you can then use to unlock the story.

> Why should it be further encuraged?

 

I said special edition not the ultimate :P

I was referring specifically to the more expensive middle options which imo really don't feel like they give enough for the price they charge.

At least with the ultimate the gems make the price more justifyable.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Although i agree considering that lw is a relic of a past it now just serves mostly to confuse ppl. Nothing that asking in game cant solve tho.

 

I love how you are pretending that the DLC content delivery model confuses people.

It doesn't.

 

This "confusion" is always a strawman.

 

Always.

 

 

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

To the OP directly you know that if you do not log in at the time the story is active you have to pay for it. If you do its free you don't even have to play just log in

Do not use the idea they are roadblocking you, because you caused it not them.

[zealex.9410]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Although i agree considering that lw is a relic of a past it now just serves mostly to confuse ppl. Nothing that asking in game cant solve tho.

>

> I love how you are pretending that the DLC content delivery model confuses people.

> It doesn't.

>

> This "confusion" is always a strawman.

>

> Always.

>

>

 

Iv personally always treated it as dlc but ppl can get confused by simple concepts so idk. Im not really strawmanning for something.