Not having Level Grind with each expansion is one of the best things about GW2

[TamX.1870]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> oh i dunno. The lazy of us of course wouldn't want a level cap, but to be honest, at least it would be some to something to do.

 

As I have played game with rising level cap, I can say that it is not players who are lazy, but the company releasing the game. Level cap raise is cheap way to force players again to gear treadmill to "give them something to do". You will grind all the same stuff you already got. You grind back your obsoleted level 80 exotic/ascended pieces, this time at level 85, then you go for level 85 legendary gears and trinkets, you need level 85 food etc. The you do the same when cap raises to 90 - new level 90 exotic/ascended, new level 90 legendaries, new level 90 sigils and runes, level 90 weapons, you name it.

 

EDIT: Effectively level cap raise works similar to drop all levels - players, their gears, content, everything - back to 70.

 

What new it really gives you? The games using level cap raising usually give very little to nothing in terms of new content. There may be new chapters in the story. There may be new landscape region to explore, but it has all the similar daily quests you have done thousand times (collect 10 these, kill 10 these, rinse and repeat).

 

How it hurts player base? All the action happens only in little landscape region, the newest one with level cap content. Sometimes there is new instance, which is the only one that players grind, because older instance rewards have been obsoleted. Everything else is usually deserted, because the rewards you get are obsoleted. Usually you can't really level up without getting the newest region, and even if you can, you can't gear up your toon.

 

What it really does, it will obsolete old content, that is, it will throw hundreds and thousands of hours it took to develop those down to toilet. If you think it more closely, it is bad business. Level cap raise is very cheap trick, it is a bunch below belt from game company side. It is a short-sighted maneuver for companies without any imagination, it usually leads to short-sighted decisions in the game mechanics and content, which needs to be constantly reset by level cap raise, and in the end it leads to situation where everything is FUBAR. You just need to try to go to play one of those games and you will see what I mean.

 

Level cap raise is effectively equal to clear player's inventories (bags & vault) when releasing an expansion. You might like such move, I don't.

[coso.9173]

horizontal progression is still progression. it's not like we have nothing to do when we get a new map/expansion. there's new skills to learn, new things to craft, new armor to unlock, new weapons, new mounts, it's just done in a way that allows you to still be able to play the content without having your gear forcefully made obsolete.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> horizontal progression is still progression. it's not like we have nothing to do when we get a new map/expansion. there's new skills to learn, new things to craft, new armor to unlock, new weapons, new mounts, it's just done in a way that allows you to still be able to play the content without having your gear forcefully made obsolete.

 

Only thing I can personally agree with is that it's nice to have new abilities/especs to play new builds but for how infrequently that happens yeah yay lol new maps take a week at most to see everything than it's back to farming for irrelevant cosmetic crap or a mount that serves same purpose one I already have does just fine. I have little game time so I cant imagine how people can stay entertained for hrs and hrs seeing the same thing for somthing that literally doesnt change any aspect of actual gameplay. A vid like warframe has way swallower content compared to a large mmo and is the definition of doing something over again but even it kept me wanting to play longer cuz I was grinding for thing to make my toons stronger, and of course a little for the cosmetics as well lol but mostly for character improvement.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> I'm of the minority I guess lol. I can't bring myself to grind for just cosmetic stuff. I like the look of my toons and my weapons after the 4 yrs playing and find the pve utterly mind numbingly boring in the last year, new looking gear etc isn't enough to look forward to anymore. I dont wanna constant gear grind to stay relevant but getting my toons to max powa after a year and playing for yrs for only fashion wars isn't much incentive. I'd prefer new harder zones in expansions and a small lv increase and stronger gear to work towards even if it only happened once a yr, at least you would have multiple gear and weapon sets to farm with increased stats etc. Be a lot more incentive to keep farming yrs later but like I said I'm in the minority here lol nothing like playing for last 3 yrs looking at all ur max toons thinking that's all there is to their progression, except maybe I'll change the shoulders or the boots lol build deversity has been snuffed by devs as well so after yrs of playing the same off meta and meta builds over and over gets very stale as well. New players though should without a doubt be into this game as it offers them a lot.

 

I don't think you're in a minority at all; character progression is a real component of RPGs. You want to see your character become more powerful, more dominant, kick more kitten all over the place. Everyone hates being LV 1 in any RPG game, but when you get to a higher level, get good gear, and start putting out the DPS, it's a great feeling.

 

We do lose that in GW2. I haven't been playing as long as you, so I haven't hit that threshold yet, but I am finding less and less to do these days than I did a year ago.

 

For now I'm complacent with exploring different professions and builds.

 

All that said though, there is something to be said about having static gear. Just recently I installed Borderlands 2 again, preparing for BL3 in September, and there was a free DLC to go with it. I hadn't played BL2 in a long time, but my main had an inventory full of legendary weapons, that I spent a considerable time grinding for. With the new DLC, they upped the level cap, meaning as I gained levels, those legendaries would become less and less powerful. That realization actually caused me to just log off the game, and haven't started it up again since. Might seem silly, but all the time and work I put in to get my character "just right", was now going to disappear.

 

That's what happened at the end of each WoW expansion, and while it is thrilling to gain more levels and get new gear, you rapidly hit a feeling of "time to make the donuts".

 

I don't think there is a perfect system anywhere. At least in GW2 you can safely take a break for a few months without falling behind in gear progression :+1:

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

 

> ... you rapidly hit a feeling of "time to make the donuts".

How beautifully succinct!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I'm of the minority I guess lol. I can't bring myself to grind for just cosmetic stuff. I like the look of my toons and my weapons after the 4 yrs playing and find the pve utterly mind numbingly boring in the last year, new looking gear etc isn't enough to look forward to anymore. I dont wanna constant gear grind to stay relevant but getting my toons to max powa after a year and playing for yrs for only fashion wars isn't much incentive. I'd prefer new harder zones in expansions and a small lv increase and stronger gear to work towards even if it only happened once a yr, at least you would have multiple gear and weapon sets to farm with increased stats etc. Be a lot more incentive to keep farming yrs later but like I said I'm in the minority here lol nothing like playing for last 3 yrs looking at all ur max toons thinking that's all there is to their progression, except maybe I'll change the shoulders or the boots lol build deversity has been snuffed by devs as well so after yrs of playing the same off meta and meta builds over and over gets very stale as well. New players though should without a doubt be into this game as it offers them a lot.

>

> I don't think you're in a minority at all; character progression is a real component of RPGs. You want to see your character become more powerful, more dominant, kick more kitten all over the place. Everyone hates being LV 1 in any RPG game, but when you get to a higher level, get good gear, and start putting out the DPS, it's a great feeling.

>

> We do lose that in GW2. I haven't been playing as long as you, so I haven't hit that threshold yet, but I am finding less and less to do these days than I did a year ago.

>

> For now I'm complacent with exploring different professions and builds.

>

> All that said though, there is something to be said about having static gear. Just recently I installed Borderlands 2 again, preparing for BL3 in September, and there was a free DLC to go with it. I hadn't played BL2 in a long time, but my main had an inventory full of legendary weapons, that I spent a considerable time grinding for. With the new DLC, they upped the level cap, meaning as I gained levels, those legendaries would become less and less powerful. That realization actually caused me to just log off the game, and haven't started it up again since. Might seem silly, but all the time and work I put in to get my character "just right", was now going to disappear.

>

> That's what happened at the end of each WoW expansion, and while it is thrilling to gain more levels and get new gear, you rapidly hit a feeling of "time to make the donuts".

>

> I don't think there is a perfect system anywhere. At least in GW2 you can safely take a break for a few months without falling behind in gear progression :+1:

 

See I totally understand ur point but for me personally reinstalling BL and seeing that there's new more powerful weapons etc along with other new content would drive me to play the game and new content to feel like I'm progressing my charecter further. If I logged into BL to notice it has a new map I'd mess around in it for a little to see the sites,maybe new enemy types than shelf the game again cuz why bother. I gues charecter progression is what keeps me interested than story than game mechanics lol. In gw2 the story has gotten very boring(personal opinion only) so story progression is of little consequence and all 11 of my toons have been maxed for yrs and yrs so not much left in character progression left. I will say though the combat mechanics in this game are still ahead of it's time, the devs did good really great on that front.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> Not having Level Grind with each expansion is one of the best things about Guild Wars 2. As a level 80 I have full access to so many zones balanced around my level in terms of difficulty. Each expansion just adds to that rather then more level zones that get plowed through once players reach max level and gear up.

 

Agreed. Although the traditional level increase with expansions has one major benefit: story and difficulty progression. You must play through the various expansion levels until you reach the next level cap and in the process you see the story unfold. In Guild Wars 2 you take your fresh level 80 character to Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire and then complain that the first instance is too hard when you get killed all the time. It also doesn't help that in order to play the expansion you just bought, you must either pay extra money to unlock the previous story in order, or play the new story first until you get enough gold to unlock the prequel. This is my heavy gripe with Guild Wars 2 at the moment, the story and the difficulty progression is disjointed mess for new players. And this isn't an issue in other games due to level grind.

 

Arenanet needs to find something else to provide the same "functionality" as level grind. Note, I'm not asking for the level grind itself, as I hate it as a concept, just something else to add some much needed progression to the game.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> This is my heavy gripe with Guild Wars 2 at the moment, the story and the difficulty progression is disjointed mess for new players. And this isn't an issue in other games due to level grind.

Do other games allow new players to insta-level to the max and then expose them to top level content, or is it pretty much required that new players level-grind their way there? I agree, GW2 can be a mess for insta-80 new players diving into expansion content.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > This is my heavy gripe with Guild Wars 2 at the moment, the story and the difficulty progression is disjointed mess for new players. And this isn't an issue in other games due to level grind.

> Do other games allow new players to insta-level to the max and then expose them to top level content, or is it pretty much required that new players level-grind their way there? I agree, GW2 can be a mess for insta-80 new players diving into expansion content.

 

It's not about going to 80 instantly. Playing in the pre level 80 zones that are required for the story alone, even including the tiny few moments you'll spend in Orr, is absolutely nothing compared to the expansions. A fresh level 80 player that just finished the personal story can go and start either expansion, and get demolished. There is no progression between reaching your fresh 80 and the expansions for new players. For veteran players we had 2 full Living World Seasons to play, and get prepared for, Heart of Thorns, and then another full season between Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire. All that is either lost forever, requires an extra purchase, or it's not really worth it, reward-wise, compared to the expansion itself.

[TamX.1870]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> It's not about going to 80 instantly. Playing in the pre level 80 zones that are required for the story alone, even including the tiny few moments you'll spend in Orr, is absolutely nothing compared to the expansions. A fresh level 80 player that just finished the personal story can go and start either expansion, and get demolished. There is no progression between reaching your fresh 80 and the expansions for new players. For veteran players we had 2 full Living World Seasons to play, and get prepared for, Heart of Thorns, and then another full season between Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire. All that is either lost forever, requires an extra purchase, or it's not really worth it, reward-wise, compared to the expansion itself.

 

I agree with these points with you. There really could now be time to revise Orr and other higher level core maps, to bring them closer to current state of the game. There also could time now to rethink how new players can get LW episodes when purchasing expansion. I wouldn't mind if purchasing HoT would also unlock LW3.

 

But level cap raise is definitely not an answer to this problem. At least in the game I played, difficulty didn't raise when progressing forward, but mainly the opposite. When those lower level areas were once level capped areas, they were more difficult. You can generally autoattack the old areas through, because you can get overleveled for the content and thus you can one-shot the mobs. Furthermore, those years ago obsoleted areas are generally not free, you need to purchase them.

 

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> I don't think you're in a minority at all; character progression is a real component of RPGs. You want to see your character become more powerful, more dominant, kick more kitten all over the place. Everyone hates being LV 1 in any RPG game, but when you get to a higher level, get good gear, and start putting out the DPS, it's a great feeling.

 

Well, first, raising level cap is hardly what I consider character progression. It is more like character reset, it nullifies the progression you made. You generally get the same old poop few levels higher, which forces you to trash everything you got to get new bit higher level things.

 

Second, I don't personally look for more powerful characters. It just leads to an inflation. Stats and DPS and such are just numbers. What I look for, is new challenges to beat. What I look for a game is something similar to those old video games, you know, level raise was raise in difficulty, not a raise in your spaceship's or similar power, and definitely it was not like raising together both the level of mobs and your spaceship, keeping the next level exactly the same as previous.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"TamX.1870" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > It's not about going to 80 instantly. Playing in the pre level 80 zones that are required for the story alone, even including the tiny few moments you'll spend in Orr, is absolutely nothing compared to the expansions. A fresh level 80 player that just finished the personal story can go and start either expansion, and get demolished. There is no progression between reaching your fresh 80 and the expansions for new players. For veteran players we had 2 full Living World Seasons to play, and get prepared for, Heart of Thorns, and then another full season between Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire. All that is either lost forever, requires an extra purchase, or it's not really worth it, reward-wise, compared to the expansion itself.

>

> I agree with these points with you. There really could now be time to revise Orr and other higher level core maps, to bring them closer to current state of the game. There also could time now to rethink how new players can get LW episodes when purchasing expansion. I wouldn't mind if purchasing HoT would also unlock LW3.

>

> But level cap raise is definitely not an answer to this problem. At least in the game I played, difficulty didn't raise when progressing forward, but mainly the opposite. When those lower level areas were once level capped areas, they were more difficult. You can generally autoattack the old areas through, because you can get overleveled for the content and thus you can one-shot the mobs. Furthermore, those years ago obsoleted areas are generally not free, you need to purchase them.

>

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > I don't think you're in a minority at all; character progression is a real component of RPGs. You want to see your character become more powerful, more dominant, kick more kitten all over the place. Everyone hates being LV 1 in any RPG game, but when you get to a higher level, get good gear, and start putting out the DPS, it's a great feeling.

>

> Well, first, raising level cap is hardly what I consider character progression. It is more like character reset, it nullifies the progression you made. You generally get the same old poop few levels higher, which forces you to trash everything you got to get new bit higher level things.

>

> Second, I don't personally look for more powerful characters. It just leads to an inflation. Stats and DPS and such are just numbers. What I look for, is new challenges to beat. What I look for a game is something similar to those old video games, you know, level raise was raise in difficulty, not a raise in your spaceship's or similar power, and definitely it was not like raising together both the level of mobs and your spaceship, keeping the next level exactly the same as previous.

 

So u consider getting a different shirt that is of no value other than cosmetic more progress than a shirt that increases the stats of ur toon? U consider having more powerfull gear to strive for is charecter resetting? Then why get to lv 80? U just reset ur toons gear etc ad far as ur sub 80 weapons. Doing a story to progress ur place as far as where u are in the story line is a pretty small incentive to play for yrs post lv 80. Yrs after ur toons are 80 nothing u do makes ur toons better other than subjectively looking better aside from new skills/especs ofcourse but that's of little value given the how often this occurs. Of course a game doesn't have to rely on just making ur toon more powerful to make progression seem worthwhile. Things like different stats available to players at a higher level that arnt OP compared to the normal stats but offer something different than the norm. Different damage types,condition types etc they dont have to be stronger than the stats or damage types that were given earlier in the game but different at least. It would add build deversity and atleast give a differences in gameplay as u progress throughout the games life. Just depending on expansions for these things in a horizontal progressive mmo isn't enough if the expansions release so scarcely. Eventually ur like why do hrs of this so my headpiece looks different? If it was different and had rare stats that are different than early acquired headpiece but not more powerful I'd still be somewhat of a reason to progress. Of course eventually they'd run out a new things and that's when a power increase would come in. Again very few share my views lol

[Opopanax.1803]

I love how gw2 does not have a gear or level treadmill. They way they have done gear with different stat combinations has been great so far!

[TamX.1870]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> So u consider getting a different shirt that is of no value other than cosmetic more progress than a shirt that increases the stats of ur toon?

 

No.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> U consider having more powerfull gear to strive for is charecter resetting?

 

We have more powerful gears, like rare compared to exotic compared to ascended. But if all of our items would be wiped out when expansion comes, that I would call resetting - and that is what happens at level cap raise. Also, if all the game, including characters and gears, would be down-graded to level 70 when expansion comes, that I would call resetting - and that is what happens at level cap raise. Raising cap to 90 would mean that all of our items would be obsoleted. It really does not matter if the DPS would raise from 30k to 40k, when the mobs would be scaled up to negate that effect, effectively giving us just the same level of difficulty and challenge than before. It would not change anything but just wipe our current progression.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Then why get to lv 80?

 

Because all the content is for level 80. And because you can't help leveling up if you play. Because you can't really get geared until the level stop raising, because when you are sub-cap, all the gears you get will get obsolete quickly when gaining levels.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> U just reset ur toons gear etc ad far as ur sub 80 weapons.

 

Yes, but while leveling, how much effort I can put to on-level gears? It is bit different to trash gears that cost 50 silver and took 1 minute to get, than trashing gears which took you hundreds or thousands of gold to get, and hundreds of hours of your time.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Yrs after ur toons are 80 nothing u do makes ur toons better other than subjectively looking better aside from new skills/especs ofcourse but that's of little value given the how often this occurs.

 

Yes, but I already said that I am not looking such progression. I am looking new challenges. I am not wanting the game company to give me power to water down the existing content, I am looking for my own personal skills to play and knowledge to make the content easier for me.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> ... It would add build deversity and atleast give a differences in gameplay as u progress throughout the games life.

 

Yes, I'd certainly vote for adding diversity to builds and game playing.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Eventually ur like why do hrs of this so my headpiece looks different? If it was different and had rare stats that are different than early acquired headpiece but not more powerful I'd still be somewhat of a reason to progress. Of course eventually they'd run out a new things and that's when a power increase would come in.

 

Yes, and if you solve this subject by increasing power, you take the first step to a path that leads obsoleting existing content, and resetting characters. There are few very good examples how this path ends.

 

Think that in next expansion, we would get gears higher quality (that is, higher stats) than ascended. What would it mean? It would mean obsoleting all the ascended and legendary gears people have put much effort to get. Would this really change anything else but water down the existing content (because mobs are designed to lower stats)? All maps, all fractals, all raids would be obsoleted, if not lifted up for these new gears. All dungeon, map, PvP, WvW and fractal currencies would be obsoleted, because you could only use them for max ascended quality pieces. Would it create anything new and fascinating for the new content, except locking them behind new gears? What you would get, you would desert all the existing maps and concentrate the entire player base to new map where you would get those higher quality pieces (just what happens when raising the level cap), and in this progress you would probably loose a big bunch of existing player base.

 

I would say, that if they'd introduce a new higher tier gear quality than ascended, they should have really, really good reasons to do that, and that should offer something extraordinary in exchange.

 

Level cap raise and/or introducing new higher tier gears, they equal to (1) trashing all the existing items and currencies, (2) downgrading characters, (3) force people to start over, and (4) mostly resell things that players already had. It is mostly used by companies to force the players to buy new "update". But it could be used as a tool, if you have made too many mistakes in the current cap itemization and faced a dead end, to reset it and start over.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"TamX.1870" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > It's not about going to 80 instantly. Playing in the pre level 80 zones that are required for the story alone, even including the tiny few moments you'll spend in Orr, is absolutely nothing compared to the expansions. A fresh level 80 player that just finished the personal story can go and start either expansion, and get demolished. There is no progression between reaching your fresh 80 and the expansions for new players. For veteran players we had 2 full Living World Seasons to play, and get prepared for, Heart of Thorns, and then another full season between Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire. All that is either lost forever, requires an extra purchase, or it's not really worth it, reward-wise, compared to the expansion itself.

> >

> > I agree with these points with you. There really could now be time to revise Orr and other higher level core maps, to bring them closer to current state of the game. There also could time now to rethink how new players can get LW episodes when purchasing expansion. I wouldn't mind if purchasing HoT would also unlock LW3.

> >

> > But level cap raise is definitely not an answer to this problem. At least in the game I played, difficulty didn't raise when progressing forward, but mainly the opposite. When those lower level areas were once level capped areas, they were more difficult. You can generally autoattack the old areas through, because you can get overleveled for the content and thus you can one-shot the mobs. Furthermore, those years ago obsoleted areas are generally not free, you need to purchase them.

> >

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > I don't think you're in a minority at all; character progression is a real component of RPGs. You want to see your character become more powerful, more dominant, kick more kitten all over the place. Everyone hates being LV 1 in any RPG game, but when you get to a higher level, get good gear, and start putting out the DPS, it's a great feeling.

> >

> > Well, first, raising level cap is hardly what I consider character progression. It is more like character reset, it nullifies the progression you made. You generally get the same old poop few levels higher, which forces you to trash everything you got to get new bit higher level things.

> >

> > Second, I don't personally look for more powerful characters. It just leads to an inflation. Stats and DPS and such are just numbers. What I look for, is new challenges to beat. What I look for a game is something similar to those old video games, you know, level raise was raise in difficulty, not a raise in your spaceship's or similar power, and definitely it was not like raising together both the level of mobs and your spaceship, keeping the next level exactly the same as previous.

>

> So u consider getting a different shirt that is of no value other than cosmetic more progress than a shirt that increases the stats of ur toon? U consider having more powerfull gear to strive for is charecter resetting? Then why get to lv 80? U just reset ur toons gear etc ad far as ur sub 80 weapons. Doing a story to progress ur place as far as where u are in the story line is a pretty small incentive to play for yrs post lv 80. Yrs after ur toons are 80 nothing u do makes ur toons better other than subjectively looking better aside from new skills/especs ofcourse but that's of little value given the how often this occurs. Of course a game doesn't have to rely on just making ur toon more powerful to make progression seem worthwhile. Things like different stats available to players at a higher level that arnt OP compared to the normal stats but offer something different than the norm. Different damage types,condition types etc they dont have to be stronger than the stats or damage types that were given earlier in the game but different at least. It would add build deversity and atleast give a differences in gameplay as u progress throughout the games life. Just depending on expansions for these things in a horizontal progressive mmo isn't enough if the expansions release so scarcely. Eventually ur like why do hrs of this so my headpiece looks different? If it was different and had rare stats that are different than early acquired headpiece but not more powerful I'd still be somewhat of a reason to progress. Of course eventually they'd run out a new things and that's when a power increase would come in. Again very few share my views lol

 

A shirt that increases stats is just a matter of cosmetics in a gear progression game. It gives the appearance of progress just as unlocking a new skin does in GW2. The difference is only in your mind.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > > @"MrRuin.9740" said:

> > > Level wise, yes this is true, but GW2 just puts it under a different guise. With each expansion we got masteries that needed to be leveled, which is not that different from having to gain more levels; it's just different in name and not actually being tied to your characters 'level'. Not grinding out these masteries via exp limited your character in both expacs as areas weren't accessible and you lacked certain abilities.

> > >

> > > GW2 went about it in a better way, that I do agree, but it still very much had exp grinds introduced in each expac.

> >

> > It's still nice to feel some sense of improvement to our characters though, but without making our gear obsolete. The constant raising level gear grind is what I hated most about other MMOs. And the masteries are account wide, so you only need to do them once.

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > To some extend yes and i personally prefer it over the weird 10 lvls increase tho i see the value in it.

> > >

> > > On the ither hand it just splits the playerbase way too thin over alot of maps.

> >

> > And spreading players too thin? Not with GW2's map shards instead of server split. I still see plenty of players, even in Central Tyria, and in HoT zones (4 year old content), I often can't get into a map for a meta because it's full. Even Central Tyria during Boss trains.

> >

> >

>

> I only see ppl in core tyria when a world boss happens, i see ppl in solverwastes that are farming the map and i see ppl in meta maps when metas happen, i also see alot of maps veing relatively lower pop or dead.

>

> What im saying is that keep adding maps and metas like that without shaving the existing pool will only server to split the community or kill maps in the process.

 

In theory ... but Anet has taken some steps to change that like daily rewards dependent on certain zones and warning devices for events in various zones. I honestly don't feel that zones are that sparsely populated though try and find a group doing meta in Bloodstone Fen anymore ...

 

So basically, it's like a new map, but it's not dire. I think the unfortunate thing is that Anet can't develop new events and content in LS or expansion maps; there is lots of work gone into those and it's a shame they 'dry up' after a while.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > > > @"MrRuin.9740" said:

> > > > Level wise, yes this is true, but GW2 just puts it under a different guise. With each expansion we got masteries that needed to be leveled, which is not that different from having to gain more levels; it's just different in name and not actually being tied to your characters 'level'. Not grinding out these masteries via exp limited your character in both expacs as areas weren't accessible and you lacked certain abilities.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 went about it in a better way, that I do agree, but it still very much had exp grinds introduced in each expac.

> > >

> > > It's still nice to feel some sense of improvement to our characters though, but without making our gear obsolete. The constant raising level gear grind is what I hated most about other MMOs. And the masteries are account wide, so you only need to do them once.

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > To some extend yes and i personally prefer it over the weird 10 lvls increase tho i see the value in it.

> > > >

> > > > On the ither hand it just splits the playerbase way too thin over alot of maps.

> > >

> > > And spreading players too thin? Not with GW2's map shards instead of server split. I still see plenty of players, even in Central Tyria, and in HoT zones (4 year old content), I often can't get into a map for a meta because it's full. Even Central Tyria during Boss trains.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I only see ppl in core tyria when a world boss happens, i see ppl in solverwastes that are farming the map and i see ppl in meta maps when metas happen, i also see alot of maps veing relatively lower pop or dead.

> >

> > What im saying is that keep adding maps and metas like that without shaving the existing pool will only server to split the community or kill maps in the process.

>

> In theory ... but Anet has taken some steps to change that like daily rewards dependent on certain zones and warning devices for events in various zones. I honestly don't feel that zones are that sparsely populated though try and find a group doing meta in Bloodstone Fen anymore ...

>

> So basically, it's like a new map, but it's not dire. I think the unfortunate thing is that Anet can't develop new events and content in LS or expansion maps; there is lots of work gone into those and it's a shame they 'dry up' after a while.

 

daily rewards? U mean the thing ppl hoarded pact agent thingies and then went to a specific map and spammed them to get that map's material for that week?

[Hashberry.4510]

Given how easily end game gear is obtained, I just do not get the agony if it is reset every few years. This is as odd to me as the idea that the game does not begin until end game. The leveling game is entertaining imo. I agree gear and level reset gets old too, was definitely there with WoW, but I would not mind at all if we got some of that after 7 years.

[Mortifera.6138]

Aye, but FFXIV has all classes on one character, so imagine how they would feel trying out GW2/any other MMO.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

They gear grind is merely replaced with having to stat change your gear if a new stat combo comes out. This is a great thing.

 

Mastery grind is tough in the beginning if you don't have access to all content in the game, but otherwise fine because of dailies and adventures.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > > > > @"MrRuin.9740" said:

> > > > > Level wise, yes this is true, but GW2 just puts it under a different guise. With each expansion we got masteries that needed to be leveled, which is not that different from having to gain more levels; it's just different in name and not actually being tied to your characters 'level'. Not grinding out these masteries via exp limited your character in both expacs as areas weren't accessible and you lacked certain abilities.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW2 went about it in a better way, that I do agree, but it still very much had exp grinds introduced in each expac.

> > > >

> > > > It's still nice to feel some sense of improvement to our characters though, but without making our gear obsolete. The constant raising level gear grind is what I hated most about other MMOs. And the masteries are account wide, so you only need to do them once.

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > To some extend yes and i personally prefer it over the weird 10 lvls increase tho i see the value in it.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the ither hand it just splits the playerbase way too thin over alot of maps.

> > > >

> > > > And spreading players too thin? Not with GW2's map shards instead of server split. I still see plenty of players, even in Central Tyria, and in HoT zones (4 year old content), I often can't get into a map for a meta because it's full. Even Central Tyria during Boss trains.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I only see ppl in core tyria when a world boss happens, i see ppl in solverwastes that are farming the map and i see ppl in meta maps when metas happen, i also see alot of maps veing relatively lower pop or dead.

> > >

> > > What im saying is that keep adding maps and metas like that without shaving the existing pool will only server to split the community or kill maps in the process.

> >

> > In theory ... but Anet has taken some steps to change that like daily rewards dependent on certain zones and warning devices for events in various zones. I honestly don't feel that zones are that sparsely populated though try and find a group doing meta in Bloodstone Fen anymore ...

> >

> > So basically, it's like a new map, but it's not dire. I think the unfortunate thing is that Anet can't develop new events and content in LS or expansion maps; there is lots of work gone into those and it's a shame they 'dry up' after a while.

>

> daily rewards? U mean the thing ppl hoarded pact agent thingies and then went to a specific map and spammed them to get that map's material for that week?

 

 

I don't think so ... the daily that sends you to different maps ... it's a mitigation for those maps being empty.

[whoeverxwins.1279]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > > @"MrRuin.9740" said:

> > > Level wise, yes this is true, but GW2 just puts it under a different guise. With each expansion we got masteries that needed to be leveled, which is not that different from having to gain more levels; it's just different in name and not actually being tied to your characters 'level'. Not grinding out these masteries via exp limited your character in both expacs as areas weren't accessible and you lacked certain abilities.

> > >

> > > GW2 went about it in a better way, that I do agree, but it still very much had exp grinds introduced in each expac.

> >

> > It's still nice to feel some sense of improvement to our characters though, but without making our gear obsolete. The constant raising level gear grind is what I hated most about other MMOs. And the masteries are account wide, so you only need to do them once.

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > To some extend yes and i personally prefer it over the weird 10 lvls increase tho i see the value in it.

> > >

> > > On the ither hand it just splits the playerbase way too thin over alot of maps.

> >

> > And spreading players too thin? Not with GW2's map shards instead of server split. I still see plenty of players, even in Central Tyria, and in HoT zones (4 year old content), I often can't get into a map for a meta because it's full. Even Central Tyria during Boss trains.

> >

> >

>

> I only see ppl in core tyria when a world boss happens, i see ppl in solverwastes that are farming the map and i see ppl in meta maps when metas happen, i also see alot of maps veing relatively lower pop or dead.

>

> What im saying is that keep adding maps and metas like that without shaving the existing pool will only server to split the community or kill maps in the process.

 

So you'd rather play the same content over and over and... I'd rather have new maps and content, thanks.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I donno but one of the main reasons I'm playing eso and will continue to do so instead of gw2 for the majority of my game time is that I can look forward to the possibility of getting a better more powerful staff or a more powerful gear piece with a better enchantment off the next person I kill or next thing I loot. At this point I know 100% that looting anything in gw2 is just garbage to sell for money,even the reward boxes 9 out a 10 times are full of things of no use for me. If ur not into fashion wards or fulfilling some trivial reward track for the completionist in u that really doesn't change anything gameplay wise than really what's the point? Feels pointless lol just so little in terms of meaningful content or reward with little feeling of progress or accomplishment to keep players playing. Pvp for the challenge of fighting other players is all there is left.

[zealex.9410]

> @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"whoeverxwins.1279" said:

> > > > @"MrRuin.9740" said:

> > > > Level wise, yes this is true, but GW2 just puts it under a different guise. With each expansion we got masteries that needed to be leveled, which is not that different from having to gain more levels; it's just different in name and not actually being tied to your characters 'level'. Not grinding out these masteries via exp limited your character in both expacs as areas weren't accessible and you lacked certain abilities.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 went about it in a better way, that I do agree, but it still very much had exp grinds introduced in each expac.

> > >

> > > It's still nice to feel some sense of improvement to our characters though, but without making our gear obsolete. The constant raising level gear grind is what I hated most about other MMOs. And the masteries are account wide, so you only need to do them once.

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > To some extend yes and i personally prefer it over the weird 10 lvls increase tho i see the value in it.

> > > >

> > > > On the ither hand it just splits the playerbase way too thin over alot of maps.

> > >

> > > And spreading players too thin? Not with GW2's map shards instead of server split. I still see plenty of players, even in Central Tyria, and in HoT zones (4 year old content), I often can't get into a map for a meta because it's full. Even Central Tyria during Boss trains.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I only see ppl in core tyria when a world boss happens, i see ppl in solverwastes that are farming the map and i see ppl in meta maps when metas happen, i also see alot of maps veing relatively lower pop or dead.

> >

> > What im saying is that keep adding maps and metas like that without shaving the existing pool will only server to split the community or kill maps in the process.

>

> So you'd rather play the same content over and over and... I'd rather have new maps and content, thanks.

 

no im not saying that, im saying the population gets spread thinner when you introduce all these options that all are supposed to have rewards and such.

[calb.3128]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> **Feels pointless lol just so little in terms of meaningful content or reward **with little feeling of progress or accomplishment to keep players playing. Pvp for the challenge of fighting other players is all there is left.

A "more powerful staff or a more powerful gear piece" is not what I consider "meaningful content or reward". Each to their own, but I am very happy with the way GW2 handles it. There are many other games out there for those who enjoy gear grind, but let's please leave this USP of GW2 alone...

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"calb.3128" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > **Feels pointless lol just so little in terms of meaningful content or reward **with little feeling of progress or accomplishment to keep players playing. Pvp for the challenge of fighting other players is all there is left.

> A "more powerful staff or a more powerful gear piece" is not what I consider "meaningful content or reward". Each to their own, but I am very happy with the way GW2 handles it. There are many other games out there for those who enjoy gear grind, but let's please leave this USP of GW2 alone...

 

More powerful gear, weapons and or a lv increase are more game changing to me than if my shirt looks different, also if harder new enemies were added with said stuff where ur farming for said stuff be great to as well lol but yeah its definitely person preference thing for sure and I've admitted most don't share my views lol just like to work towards something other than fashion as at this point after yrs what do u get that progresses ur toon in any way? Even if it came in form of new traitlines or weapons/skills I'd be great to work for somthing that effects gameplay and/or combat