the truth about underwater content.

[ugrakarma.9416]

- underwater is a hype thats exists only in foruns. In game, the underwater areas are the most empty ones,

- even in zones full of underwater events like Orr no one come back here to swiming around.

- The underwater infusions prices only drops because demand is lower and lower, is probably a Anet test to see if underwater stuff is really a hype.

- Ironically the best "water" related stuff is the Skimmer mount, **because its help you skip the water content**.

- Pvp and WvW? i dont even need explain what these communities thinks about underwater.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> - underwater is a hype thats exists only in foruns. In game, the underwater areas are the most empty ones,

 

Because there is _nothing to do_ there! Not because they weren't pretty and it wasn't fun to dive into the ocean and explore.

 

> - Pvp and WvW? i dont even need explain what these communities thinks about underwater.

 

Oh, really? We've had fun underwater fights in WvW on occasion. :)

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I don't know why people dislike it. Honestly, I really don't know.

[Mortifera.6138]

Everyone detested the underwater content — the underwater PvP map, for example, was removed — but people are so desperate for something new in the game that they want underwater combat.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> Everyone detested the underwater content — the underwater PvP map, for example, was removed — but people are so desperate for something new in the game that they want underwater combat.

 

Just like everyone detested mounts. EVERYONE!

 

But really, the only truth about underwater content is: good UW content is hard to create.

 

With free movement throughout the water, players find it harder to orient themselves, devs need to fill 10 times the space, has a second set of unoptimized imbalanced skills, that can easily require double the effort to develop and balance.

 

Which simply makes it require more effort and resources than they have available and get less in return making it less cost effective.

 

[SuwanHime.7685]

I guess underwater movement is difficult to master, a lot of people dont like the underwater fractal at least in my guild. If they want to introduce underwater content I guess it should be slowly, like a tutorial until everyone is familiar with it I guess? Idk, just thinking out loud.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> I don't know why people dislike it. Honestly, I really don't know.

 

The combat in 3 dimensions is off-putting for many.

In PvP, I already hate those ledges that I can't jump on, yet Thieves etc can just Shadowstep onto.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > - underwater is a hype thats exists only in foruns. In game, the underwater areas are the most empty ones,

>

> Because there is _nothing to do_ there! Not because they weren't pretty and it wasn't fun to dive into the ocean and explore.

>

> > - Pvp and WvW? i dont even need explain what these communities thinks about underwater.

>

> Oh, really? We've had fun underwater fights in WvW on occasion. :)

 

I loved the old Quaggan area from WVW. Still have a stack of pearl from it in my inventory. The underwater Zerg vs Zerg fights that would break out were epic.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > I don't know why people dislike it. Honestly, I really don't know.

>

> The combat in 3 dimensions is off-putting for many.

> In PvP, I already hate those ledges that I can't jump on, yet Thieves etc can just Shadowstep onto.

 

But while true, not impossible to solve.

[Blocki.4931]

Underwater simply feels too slow. You can't really gain distance properly, it's always straight lines and slow swimming. Infusions help with that, but it should have been a baseline swim speed increase

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Underwater parts of the map are dead cuz theres literally nothing to do. I would like them to add a full spvp underwater map for a start along with separate traitlines assuming they wont delete traits in future - like they should cuz its outdated system causing many balance issues

[Fueki.4753]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > I don't know why people dislike it. Honestly, I really don't know.

> >

> > The combat in 3 dimensions is off-putting for many.

> > In PvP, I already hate those ledges that I can't jump on, yet Thieves etc can just Shadowstep onto.

>

> But while true, not impossible to solve.

 

How do you solve people not wanting to even bother with three-dimensional combat?

Monster Hunter Tri/3U had Underwater combat and the majority hated it.

WoW BfA Warmode players (on the forums) want to disable flying permanently because they don't want to bother looking upwards.

 

Out of all the three-dimensional combat (that doesn't use gravity to drag the players down to the ground all the time) I played, GW2 executed it best.

Yet people still hate it.

You can't simply "solve" people hating to think in three-dimensions.

Even when playing Hide-and-seek, people have the tendency to only look at or below eye-level.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> - underwater is a hype thats exists only in foruns. In game, the underwater areas are the most empty ones,

> - even in zones full of underwater events like Orr no one come back here to swiming around.

> - The underwater infusions prices only drops because demand is lower and lower, is probably a Anet test to see if underwater stuff is really a hype.

> - Ironically the best "water" related stuff is the Skimmer mount, **because its help you skip the water content**.

> - Pvp and WvW? i dont even need explain what these communities thinks about underwater.

 

They are empty because after 7 yrs nothing has been done to expand upon it.

For me GW2 UW environment is one of the best out there. It is not just visually pleasing it opened up a whole new area of exploration and potential conflict. But is was never capitalised upon and so as time went on it became more and more underused.. just like most of the core land maps.

The krait daily and bubbles brought some new vigor for a short time, but even that seems to have little relevance to the game anymore, might as well craft an ascended breather instead.. swim speed is irrelevant when we have mounts that can do it for us.

I would love an UW update, maybe the new LS saga will have some and perhaps some new weapons/gear in relation to it, but I would not hold my breath (pun intended).

 

Perhaps at the very least they could incorporate some UW content into dailies or perhaps an UW event rush. If not then yep it truly has become another piece of wasted content creation.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Underwater simply feels too slow. [...]

 

Not if you use a +20 speed infusion, as you already mentioned. :) Besides, who says there won't be an underwater mount? ;)

 

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> How do you solve people not wanting to even bother with three-dimensional combat?

 

There are a few things in GW2 that _I_ did not want to "bother with" but had to. They'll live.

[Syrus.2174]

I don't think underwater weapons are very balanced, which would especially be a problem in PvP/WvW content.

Look at Rev's trident skills for example. The damage output of that thing is insane.

 

I'd not be oposed to more underwater content though, but it does need to be optimized first and somehow work better. Yet I could not put my finger on what the actual problem is, why it just doesn't feel quite right. Mostly the movement, I guess.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

The way to fix Underwater combat would simply be to adjust all current non-weapon skills to work underwater. I'm surprised a few of them don't already work like that, since you could just replace ground traps with "mines" that explode on enemy proximity. We already know underwater combat is one of the big reasons why people don't like going underwater, since it messes up builds and skill slot setups.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

So I guess I'm mostly curious because it seems like a combination of these questions:

 

1. What is there to do on land that *isn't there for underwater combat*? - Main idea/argument comes from perceived lack of content underwater. Probably the most important thing here, but really, what is there to do on land that is so much more exciting? Beyond combat: mounts, frankly. How you go about moving.

 

2. Why does 3d combat make people leery? Is it because they're more able to accidentally aggro something since your threat bubble extends upwards or downwards? Is it the skills themselves? (Personally, the skills got quite a bit better after the update so I don't really consider that to be a bigger reason imo).

2a. Speed of combat. I'll chalk this up to not having max level equipment most of the time, though some classes have straight up better underwater kits. Looking at you Trident Revenant (my favorite so far).

 

3. Build interruption. People need to remember to not use their non level 80 green or yellow weapons in those forgotten slots. Additionally, runes on water breathing apparatuses (apparati?). Just make sure to keep them congruent with your other tunes. (same goes for sigils, keep an extra bloodlust or stacking sigil of your choice underwater otherwise you lose your stacks).

 

4. Hydrophobia. Jk, I don't really have another point here, but I'm not sure what the big deal is. I've been around since launch and the most frustrating thing about UW content was just that I could accidentally aggro things and I was new to the game :/

[SexyMofo.8923]

I love underwater. I wish we had more.

[Kelly.7019]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> Everyone detested the underwater content — the underwater PvP map, for example, was removed — but people are so desperate for something new in the game that they want underwater combat.

 

with the small amount of people that pvp "everyone" is not a lot. and back when they had that map **I LOVED UNDERWATER PVP!!!**

 

I can only assume players don't like to fight on the x-y-z axis and some of their skills can't be used underwater are the main culprits as to why its hated. but Underwater skills could get a revamp if anet so chooses. Like completely new underwater skills. or just allow marks, wells, symbols to be spherical underwater- seems like an easy fix.

[Kelly.7019]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Mortifera.6138" said:

 

> With free movement throughout the water, players find it harder to orient themselves,

that's why it's easy & fun to kill players that are bad at x-y-z axis fighting!!! loved that pvp map!

 

 

>devs need to fill 10 times the space,

they have already made some pretty beautiful places UW that could be revamped with new hidden treasures & sea cave areas!

I can see a new Xpac map having secret sea caves that lead to entirely new levels of that map that are hidden until discovered and these levels would not have to be filled with water.

or

BIG SCARY SEA MONSTER bosses (the krakken) to scare the shit out of you as they swim up from behind :D UW maps could be mostly empty like they are with semi-rare spawns of these special loot creatures.

 

>has a second set of unoptimized imbalanced skills, that can easily require double the effort to develop and balance.

well they started it, they should finish it :D

 

> Which simply makes it require more effort and resources than they have available and get less in return making it less cost effective.

they have all those people now NCSoft made them pull off other projects and focus on GW2 like they should have been doing! With the multiple teams working on GW2 they should have plenty of resources.

 

 

 

[Kelly.7019]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Underwater simply feels too slow. You can't really gain distance properly, it's always straight lines and slow swimming. Infusions help with that, but it should have been a baseline swim speed increase

 

 

 

It's not straight lines at all! you can go any direction. think sorta like that karka brawl activity to evade move in one direction flip a 180 and zoom off with yer speed skills in another direction.

 

I always felt the swimspeed infusion was a temporary gap closer/ gold sink. I agree they should have done the baseline swim increase but i think they are testing things for a **future expansion** and a new mount would eventual gain the underwater dive/ swim faster ability. Which makes most sense to either wait for a new xpac or if mounts were previous xpac introduce it at end of LS before UW xpac :D

 

I mean think about the oceans that could be under Frozen Ice lands! (a Europa type Far Shiverpeaks map for instance! **ooh** imagine if the paths under the ice are

1) hidden/secret and 2) ever changing- due to ice shifts!

that would be a wonderful discovery when exploring. The entire sub terranean layer would be hidden from view even if you were walking on lands above it, you wouldn't see the layers level icon on yer world map. until discovered then waypoint would open for you , but the way you entered might change after 1 day due to ice shifts not allowing people to post on forums how they got in. making exploring a new game mode - heh.

I mean yea unless they designed a billion different ways to enter(unlikely) eventually they'd all be found out. but still fun for those that like immersion and not how to do it outside of game manuals.

[Ashen.2907]

I honestly do not think that ANet has the experience or talent or inspiration necessary for good three dimensional combat design. I am not sure which of the three shortcomings it might be, but I feel as if it must be one of them.

[Adul.1520]

I do want them to add a lot of underwater content (ideally a whole expansion featuring the largos race and underwater mounts), but for it to work I also want an underwater combat overhaul. And by underwater combat overhaul, I mean the enabling of all terrestrial weapons for all professions while underwater. As in all weapon skills, utility, healing and elite skills working underwater.

[Iozeph.5617]

Forgetting how much underwater combat sucks? Not understanding the mixed/negative reception for LW5? Remember dungeons? Go back and play Honour of the Waves. It's still accessible in Frostgorge Sound. Play through the story and all three exploration paths and see what the only new content you're liable to get for a while is going to made up of.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Iozeph.5617" said:

> Forgetting how much underwater combat sucks? Not understanding the mixed/negative reception for LW5? Remember dungeons? Go back and play Honour of the Waves. It's still accessible in Frostgorge Sound. Play through the story and all three exploration paths and see what the only new content you're liable to get for a while is going to made up of.

 

Believe it or not, I am enjoying the underwater challenge of Honor of the Waves. :) Others do, too.

 

They just need to balance some professions' underwater damage output (e.g., engineer is pretty weak compared to others). Then again, balancing isn't ANet's strong suit.