QoL Buff and Nerf Wishlist/Request for Revenant Skills/Traits (31 December 2020)

[Shao.7236]

# Weapons

 

## _Main-Hand Sword_

Tweaks have made it so the weapon is actually as good on it's own without having to rely so much on an off-hand, increased diversity for Revenants.

 

## _Off-Hand Sword_

* **Duelist Preparation** needs to be brought back into the mix ahead of **Shackling Waves** and work like **Counterattack** from Ranger Greatsword, putting the simple gameplay and damage down significantly, providing some sustain without losing any of that damage. Taking out the "Must rush and jump only on everyone at once." type of mentality, we have **Deathstrike** for that.

* **Deathstrike** needs to be slowed down slightly and have it's effects rolled back. This drastically nerfed Jalis stance because the conditions were used to cover **Weakness**, now Power Shiro/Dwarf is almost useless to play compared Condition Mallyx/Jalis. **Chill** and **Slow** were also there to make the final hit possible and less risky, now it's clunky and still missing sometime but the fast skill also often desync which makes evading it stupidly clunky as the old one usually had the player moving to update with the first hit. Also it's common that **Deathstrike** is used with **Phase Traversal**, **Quickness** compensates for how usually slow the skill was compared to the past, which now is really stupid fast.

 

## _Mace_

* **Quickness** needs to affect **Echoing Eruption**, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever. Note: Only affect the animation, the actually hits should be the same speed as they spread out.

 

## _Axe_

It's perfect, it hits that sweet spot where you can make it work with pretty much anything but also exceeds at what it's meant to do. In PvP/WvW it's not really much of a condition weapon, but it works.

 

## _Staff_

It's in a great spot with the changes it's got, I know a lot of people got upset at the changes to the 2nd skill, I did too but this makes the whole weapon less trivial as well as adding value to the 5th skill, balancing it for already how strong it is and Revenant has a whole having so many accessible CC's. The 3rd skill was also no exception, extremely strong before, now there's some actual input to it.

 

## _Hammer_

* 5th Skill to do the same amount of damage as 2 and 3 in PvE.

* RESTORE THE OLD TARGETING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. The PvP/WvW damage nerfs were /fine/ but making it dysfunctional is not, registry has a LOT of issues. Fix the sound too and lower it's cooldown to 8 seconds, no reason to be so high when everything else besides it just as strong and easier to land.

 

# Traits

 

## _Invocation_

* **Spirit Boon** resistance was nerfed wrongly, 1 second is not enough to play without **Demonic Defiance**. Make it 2 seconds again.

* **Incensed Response** needed to be nerfed, I agree with Anet's reasoning, but not like this. Roll back the nerf and either reduce the **Might Duration** or the amount of **Might gained**. Do it for WvW as well, not just PvP, the synergy is broken on Herald, that's it. Otherwise it's useless.

* **Charged Mists** requirements are too high and makes it purely a PvE trait until the required energy is increased to 20-25, it's already hard enough to keep the energy low while being effective and stunbreaking at the same time, traits should work together not against each other. If you really want to make it casual, have no requirement at all and just grant 25 energy on legend swap in combat, players are giving up on instant invoking effects/critical chance for this, it wouldn't break balance at all.

* **Roiling Mists** was nerfed along many things, including **Incensed Response** which was too much, it hit Core Revenant greatly and not so much for Herald nor Renegade. It needs to be brought back the way it was.

 

## _Devastation_

Good changes were made, there's not much to talk about.

 

## _Corruption_

* **Demonic Defiance** is weak and better off reworked as something else such as gaining health off every different conditions applied to like the older **Replenishing Despair** however without an ICD, given **Empowered Misery** gets the changes it deserves.

* **Permeating Pestilence** added delay is a good idea for counter play, but lowering it to 2 is a bit excessive. Rarely are proper conditions transferred now, this needs to be 3.

* **Fiendish Tenacity** was broken and yet not nerfed properly, it shouldn't give **Resistance** at all, only improve it with the healing factor, that's why you need to restore the old durations on the other skills so Revenant doesn't have to invest so much in what is so little. Game was fine before those traits were introduced, clearly it became a problem after this one appeared.

 

 

## _Retribution_

* **Close Quarters** is a very low bonus to trade off **Planar Protection**, considering it destroy projectiles at range, it applies Weakness at close. Make the trait damage reduction distance based and up to 20% from the furthest which would be more reasonable given that there's nothing to gain from being "Close Quarters" with it.

* **Spiritual Reckoning** ICD is high for how short the boon is. Either increase the boon duration to 5 seconds or Reduce the ICD to 5 seconds. Preferably the ICD would be better for the uniformity of most traits Revenant have.

* **Eye for an Eye** Might is not great, asking for Revenants to be stunbreaking is a big loss of damage that Might won't compensate for and so should be 5 seconds of **Retaliation** instead because most Revenant stunbreaks take time and leave great exposure of the player by the exception of Riposting Shadows, the trait really has to be godly to justify not taking **Dwarven Battle Training**, this would make it compete with it. In fact, even **Retaliatory Evasion** is considerably better because evading the CC is more rewarding. If players really care about Might, **Vicious Reprisal** is a thing and will grant the same amount of Might overtime with said boon.

* **Versed in Stone** the toughness benefit in PvP is too low, should be at least as high as **Armored Attack** like on Warrior.

* **Steadfast Rejuvenation** is being nerfed way too much, it's first state was already weaker than **Versed in Stone** in skillful practice, making the trait irrelevant won't change people's mentality over healing.

 

## _Salvation_

This traitline is actually good and fairly varied, the only problem is orbs. Please Anet, either rework the traits based on orbs altogether or make the orbs track players. There's too much visual clutter or RNG to make it viable. Fragments are already random enough, strange to also not have self increased healing but that's probably fair given how that goes with bunkers.

 

# Skills / Stances

 

## _Ancient Echo_

Very good addition that contributes in keeping Revenant relevant in the game, it wouldn't be the same without it since it was extremely hard to play otherwise. ~~There's just this one bug with **Versed in Stone** not counting towards **Rite of the Great Dwarf** from **Ancient Echo** which really needs to be fixed, considering how often it's used. For both Shiro and Ventari it would be very useful to work accordingly.~~

 

## _Legendary Assassin_

* **Impossible Odds** https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83603/if-impossible-odds-has-to-be-nerfed-that-badly#latest Honestly think it needs to be investigated because that upkeep is really high with how little it can do. Being able to pair with Facet of Nature could be a good buff given you only lower the upkeep enough so that they can be combined.

 

## _Legendary Centaur_

* **Project Tranquility** should "tether" the Tablet and "follow" the player until **Ventari's Will** is used where manual control is took until **Energy Expulsion** is used to reset it back to tether. This is an important change that needs to be looked into with how clunky it is to handle, have the players will lose the benefits of using anything that relates to a healing skill such as **Blindness** from **Blinding Truths** or runes that provide extra benefits from using it often, it balances the playstyle out.

* **Purifying Essence** absolutely needs to be a stunbreak, make it happen so that the legend can finally step out of the Glint/Jalis combo's, it sucks to be so limited. There is too much CC in the game to say that one legend should not have one. Even if the Tablet can be handled while stunned among other things, the pressure is too great, Ventari bonuses are all outgoing, there's nothing to recover from a stunlock the moment a whole entire zerg decides to focus the user entering the stance. While at it, an additional condition for a total of 4 and 30 energy to unify around the other stunbreak skills.

 

## _Legendary Demon_

* **Empowering Misery** needs to have **Resistance** as baseline without trait, it's such a ridiculous idea to ask players having many conditions on them to quickly lose everything again. Runes don't replace the trait for the skill as poison is still effective with 'em. The trait is mandatory which is bad, it's only picked up because without it the healing becomes extremely expensive with **Pain Absorption** that is a /team/ oriented skill, not solo. Even with 1 second, it'll be greatly buffed after all the nerfs **Resistance** has got. As a notice, if you're not going to change this, at least bring back **Spirit Boon** to it's original duration, this one was actually good enough to allow Mallyx players playing differently.

 

## _Legendary Dwarf_

* **Soothing Stone** should grant 586 (0.15) Barrier per condition removed. Rewarding well timed uses of it rather than barely surviving under pressure. Post about it here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89103/soothing-stone-is-out-of-date#latest

* **Inspiring Reinforcement** was overnerfed, sure you can nerf the duration per pulse, however it's cooldown should have remained untouched and it's initial Stability always had 2 seconds because of the delay in between pulses, currently there's a gaping hole in between the initial and pulses which is really bad for Revenant. If anything bring back 2 seconds and make pulses occur every 2 seconds, that'll nerf it right to be counterable with 2 CC's over all professions rather than those which can inflict them quickly at also the benefit of not losing Stability right away for not standing in the road like before however at a lesser degree.

* **Rite of the Great Dwarf** already went over that on https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87579/rite-of-the-great-dwarf-its-time-to-put-it-in-line-with-the-other-skills#latest as td;lr, the casting takes too long and ruins the flow. A buff to 1 second or even ¾ cast time would fine tune the legend to perfection with it's abilities because in a whole second a lot can happen already, Revenant doesn't need to be so telegraphed.

 

# Elite Specializations

 

# **Herald**

 

## _Shield_

* ~~**Envoy of Exuberance** is.. Alright, but please make the hitbox bigger, move faster as well as fixing **Aegis** blocking the skill.. Also the sending/returning energy to grant Protection consistently from to teammates/users, it has potent uses but those needs to be polished.~~

* **Crystal Hybernation** with such a big root might as well maybe make blocking 4 seconds, just like the same amount of pulses (Not sure on that one). Those pulses should also affect allies in a radius of 360, make Herald be more support oriented so that most can finally stop complaining at how selfish of a skill it is even though there's many like it in the game.

 

## _Traits_

 

* **Core Value** needs to also improve passives by around 50%. It's a weaker choice otherwise.

1. **Facet of Nature—Assassin** Life Steal Damage: 80 (0.0666) and Life Steal Healing: 128 (0.0333), given this would make it also more effective for teammates since it uses the affected player's power/healing power and not the Herald's.

2. **Facet of Nature—Centaur** heals for 707 every 3 seconds.

3. **Facet of Nature—Demon** transfers 2 conditions every 3 seconds.

4. **Facet of Nature—Dwarf** gives 15% damage reduction.

5. **Facet of Nature—Dragon** gives +30% boon duration.

 

* **Elevated Compassion** should heal up to 5 (Capped) times the amount based on the number of boons granted just like **Resilient Spirit** except to teammates only.

* **Draconic Echo** needs it's pulses reduced to one, restore Facet of Chaos protection and leave it alone.

 

## _Legendary Dragon_

* **True Nature** is the best change Herald has seen in it's entire existence, I'm very glad Anet has done it ~~but that nerf on Assassin for the radius is terrible, just remove the damage and restore the radius on it. Keep things uniform please.~~ Edit: Reduce the upkeep to 2 across all game modes, 3 is too much to make the player want to keep it's passive for a while in PvP/WvW.

* **True Nature—Demon** is extremely low risk high reward in it's current state, the radius is too big and should be comparable to **True Nature—Assassin**, finally conditions are removed even if no targets are around which is extremely unfair compared the high risk medium reward of **Permeating Pestilence**. This would easily tone down the complains about Herald Condition being too strong. There is a very small tell by itself already for this skill too.

* **Infuse Light** ~~is a strange one, given that it can be instant casted if prepared. It seems like it would be better off as a similar anti-burst like Warrior's **Endure Pain** at 2 seconds of effective time, but have it's base healing increased to compensate. 3 seconds really favors conditions and AoE damage sucking and that can be very unhealthy.~~ I do believe this facet should have a comparable cast time to **Empowering Misery**, being currently low makes the skill too versatile, lack of commitment and easy to fall back on, players should be rewarded for the preparation and plays over the upkeep, not use the Legend like it's half a Warrior. Even if it can be read on the status bar, it's the trade off for having it at instant disposal for instant healing. That said, it'll be justified to keep it's toxic ability to free heal in big team fights.

* **Gaze of Darkness** changes are great, even though it was bugged for a while. The radius increase is quite welcomed but if the Revealed cannot be applied unless the foe is in stealth, I and most people would agree that they'd prefer the old one because prevention does a lot more than just hoping to time it right as Stealth is used, people can evade it. Also please, decrease it's cooldown to 20 seconds, 25 is too much and it makes the legend unable to keep up compared core legends. It'll make more sense if **Infuse Light** gets nerfed properly too.

* **Chaotic Release** is an odd one, but it does deserve a lower cooldown at 30 to 25 seconds. Most core legends have more, reliable CC's that are not as costly. Again revert the protection nerf, it's unwarranted and ruins uniformity with the skills. Tackle Draconic Echo instead and reduce it's pulse to only only one in PvP/WvW, the nerf on protection is also terrible and non sensical, revert that. It'll also make more sense if **Infuse Light** gets nerfed properly.

 

# **Renegade**

 

## _Shortbow_

 

* ~~**Bloodbane Path** increase the hitbox and velocity of the projectiles so that they consistently hit on targets that are idling on different slops. I can understand the meaning of having to hit a target that isn't moving, but missing even when standing still sometimes? That is not really nice.~~

* ~~**Sevenshot** needs to be a beautiful circle of arrow that projects in a concentrated dot in front of the player rather than forcing the player to have the perfect distance, timing and accuracy to land full damage while it's cool looking but a worthless design at any range that doesn't respect it.~~ ~~The new changes work great too, but the skill is definitely too good now, should the cooldown be 10 seconds.~~ Nerfed co-efficient to be similar over Deathstrike is good, honestly it's still a tiny bit too high.

* **Spiritcrush** directional requirement is terrible, there shouldn't be a need for line of sight when arrows are shot strategically in a portal regardless. ~~**Bloodbane Path** doesn't so why this one? A small cooldown increase to 10 seconds might also balance the shortbow better since it's really good with the new **Sevenshot**.~~

* **Scorchrazor** increase in CD does well for balancing it, but still clunky with it's influence on movement, should be fixed.

 

## _Traits_

The traits are balanced and have trade offs, shouldn't have to change them.

 

## _Legendary Renegade_

* **Soulcleave's Summit** needs to STOP being nerfed in numbers for PvP and should be fixed properly by adding 0.25 intervals per hit while making sure the original values are restored.

 

* ~~**Citadel Bombardment** cooldown is the only one that stands out as why is it even so high in PvP/WvW? Should be the same that PvE has, the ordnance is pretty RNG and players have a rather small hitbox.~~

 

# **Closure**

 

Hitting the nerfs in the right place with the wrong values, better can be done. The attempts at toning down Resistance were very bad, forcing players to take every traits to achieve not even half of what was possible shows it, it was fine until the new trait was introduced, it's clear what the problem was. Hammer has been useless for an awful long time and it's not because of the stats or cooldowns, the skill FAILS to hit more than not. Just bring back the old one with uniform damage and 8 seconds CD then be done with it.

 

Edit: Typo's.

Edit: Added Facet of Nature 22 Nov. 2019

Edit: Added Ancient Echo 7 Dec. 2019

Edit: Added Elevated Compassion 12 Dec. 2019

Edit: Reflected on the new changes 27 Jul. 2020

Edit: Reflected on the new changes 22 Dec. 2020

Edit: Some changes on Infuse Light and Mace 31 Dec. 2020

[Catchyfx.5768]

100% agree where can I sign?

[DonArkanio.6419]

Oh man. This is so well-put.

 

This post sums up some of the best changes people have been suggesting for the lasy year.

They don't require much, they're mostly numbers.

 

I like them all. Lastly, I'd love to see ANet's response to Renegade.

[Aeolus.3615]

I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

 

You can actually do that with Sanctuary Runes per each hit you get because of the small healing even without Steadfast Rejuvenation, also it procs Unyielding Devotion every hit as well.

 

Unless you think that it should happen without it I'm not sure if it's a good idea, Resilient Spirit has always been Herald more oriented IMO although Revenants do have the option to trait for Swiftness, Fury, Might and naturally follow with Alacrity and Stability from.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

>

> You can actually do that with Sanctuary Runes per each hit you get because of the small healing even without Steadfast Rejuvenation, also it procs Unyielding Devotion every hit as well.

>

> Unless you think that it should happen without it I'm not sure if it's a good idea, Resilient Spirit has always been Herald more oriented IMO although Revenants do have the option to trait for Swiftness, Fury, Might and naturally follow with Alacrity and Stability from.

 

I don’t think it would be OP, but it would depend the value Anet defines for that gain, maybe with runes and zerker/zealot gear could gain for some warriorish sturdiness feeling.

20% of 60-80hp heals isn’t much.

If the scaling quoficient value is low being zerker or with healing power value would not gain much, so that could avoid it reach broken values.

[Arkantos.7460]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

 

> * Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

 

ehm NO ffs do you even know how much projectile blocks is there in pvp .....

[Justine.6351]

Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> > * Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

>

> ehm NO kitten do you even know how much projectile blocks is there in pvp .....

 

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

 

People said the same thing about Death's Judgement losing it's unblockable factor, yet it's fine.

 

The cooldown is 4 seconds, it would actually hit people more consistently no matter the terrain instead of having to be close up or play on non-existent flat lands. Can be made Unblockable with Shiro Ancient Echo, Phase Traversal and Malicious Reprisal strategically, Field of the Mists can take care of reflected projectiles.

 

I don't want this skill to be a Mirror Blade clone with higher cooldown. It's low cooldown is what makes it effective.

 

Anet could make the AoE effect go through small terrain objects and up walls but that's not happening. The only people that really cares about the current effect is WvW players with the large scale effectiveness of the skill when the scenario is proper and that's the biggest issue. Make the skill overall useful, not niche.

 

They could also code it to be like a progressive Blunderbuss that cannot be reflected and only blocked with proper visual effects.

 

The main argument is that the skill was always trash unless used on flat lands. The new changes actually buffed it's close damage while nerfing the far which is more than fine in regards to the silly yet cool design it was on paper, but as it still stands. It's not viable at long range with how it still works, given the current bugged form as well.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Id like to add we do need one more core weapon, a ranged condition based weapon. We lack one and we SHOULDN'T be required to run renegade to get access to one, I feel like this would make everything a bit smoother. Because as I've stated in numerous threads you can't move ahead and make a new elite spec without looking at what we lack, the most glaring issue is the secondary condition damage weapon for core. (Probably why renegade got shortbow)

 

Id rather you give us a new core weapon (You did this with underwater and trident) so we can play the different builds effectively, because being condition revenant is hard due to it being limited to mostly melee. Unless you bring a hammer, but you don't hit hard enough to really bring much to the table on a ranged encounter which is unfortunate. Either that or make hammer function like trident and do damage based on your current legend, which would make it more tailored to your build though im not sure how that would work.

 

Please A-net Give us one more core weapon, just so we can have something to go along with out condi. (Zerg battles suck because we have no option but to go melee as condi-rev. I run core Revenant predominantly and Id love to have a caster based ranged weapon preferably scepter focus...)

[Shao.7236]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> Id like to add we do need one more core weapon, a ranged condition based weapon. We lack one and we SHOULDN'T be required to run renegade to get access to one, I feel like this would make everything a bit smoother. Because as I've stated in numerous threads you can't move ahead and make a new elite spec without looking at what we lack, the most glaring issue is the secondary condition damage weapon for core. (Probably why renegade got shortbow)

>

> Id rather you give us a new core weapon (You did this with underwater and trident) so we can play the different builds effectively, because being condition revenant is hard due to it being limited to mostly melee. Unless you bring a hammer, but you don't hit hard enough to really bring much to the table on a ranged encounter which is unfortunate. Either that or make hammer function like trident and do damage based on your current legend, which would make it more tailored to your build though im not sure how that would work.

>

> Please A-net Give us one more core weapon, just so we can have something to go along with out condi. (Zerg battles suck because we have no option but to go melee as condi-rev. I run core Revenant predominantly and Id love to have a caster based ranged weapon preferably scepter focus...)

 

I agree, core Revenant could use Scepter at least with Trident legend mechanics. Doesn't need to be themed. It could work fine. Longbow could also be nice. Although I like the idea of going around with Scepter and Axe.

 

[Buran.3796]

For what I care they could delete the whole class; I no longer play Rev in PvP. Dragonhunter provides me better results and can be played while taking a nap, which is perfect to confront the "skill" of the programmers and balance managers in this game... Fight ineptitude with laziness in an attrition battle; everyone wins.

[Kravey.4563]

These would be really great changes. I would sign it.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

**Disagree on:**

 

**Death Strike:** Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

 

**Incensed Response:** Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly **it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes.** It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

 

**Diabolic Inferno:** Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. **However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%.** If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

 

 

Otherwise most changes you listed are good or at the very least neutral. Just a pretty hard disagree from me for the top 3 since I see them as being unneccessary nerfs or buffs in certain areas

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> ## _Main-Hand Sword_

> Tweaks have made it so the weapon is actually not too strong, not too weak. I wouldn't touch it.

 

Only changes I'd like for the weapon are to fix how buggy sword 3 is, and to have sword 2 not track random objects in WvW. Otherwise I agree: it is a very solid weapon and doesn't need actual balance adjustments.

 

> ## _Off-Hand Sword_

> It's got weird unnecessary changes that definitely nerfed core Revenant as a whole and has made Staff a must have alternative.

> * **Duelist Preparation** needs to be brought back into the mix ahead of **Shackling Waves** and work like **Counterattack** from Ranger Greatsword, putting the simple gameplay and damage down significantly, providing some sustain without losing any of that damage. Taking out the "Must rush and jump only on everyone at once." type of mentality, we have **Deathstrike** for that.

 

I would absolutely love to have some sort of offhand block restored to the core class. I have been suggesting this for a long time, and although I have suggested for a completely new offhand to fill this niche, I would be content with Duelist's Preparation making a return.

 

> ## _Mace_

> It feels just right, but could use one simple change.

> * **Quickness** needs to affect **Echoing Eruption**, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever.

 

Agreed. I love mace to pieces. It is such a great weapon and has clear counterplay, but is still very effective at its role. I'm on board with your idea here. To be honest I have tested this multiple times and never actually came to a conclusion....wasn't 100% sure it wasn't affected by quickness.

 

> ## _Axe_

> It's perfect, it hits that sweet spot where you can make it work with pretty much anything but also exceeds at what it's meant to do.

 

One thing I'd like for axe is for it to count as a true shadowstep so you cannot get hit by AoE's along your path. Otherwise, the weapon is great. High impact weapons with solid counterplay are healthy.

 

>

> ## _Staff_

> It's in a great spot with the changes it's got, I know a lot of people got upset at the changes to the 2nd skill, I did too but this makes the whole weapon less trivial as well as adding value to the 5th skill, balancing it for already how strong it is. The 3rd skill was also no exception, extremely strong before, now there's some actual input to it.

 

I wish staff did a better job at legitimately supporting, but it has such little room for buffs because it is such a phenomenal utility weapon. My one suggestion is to have the heal simply trigger PBAoE rather than at the location the cast time ends. The current mechanic makes it unnecessarily clunky if you are trying to heal a moving ally with it.

 

> ## _Hammer_

> Currently regarded as nerfed (Also Skill 2 broken, anet pls fix.), but overall by design all the skills should do the same damage, this uniformity compensates greatly for how telegraphed the skills are, still 2 things I would change but otherwise I consider it to be quite strong.

> * 5th Skill to do the same amount of damage as 2 and 3.

> * Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

 

Eh, hammer 2's functionality should just be reverted pre-bug. I mean, the weapon is *extremely* niche, but it is good at its niche and I'd rather it stay as such. I don't think that just changing hammer 2 would make it a viable PvP weapon, tbh. I'd rather see the AA speed/aftercast adjusted.

 

> ## _Invocation_

> There's been a few changes here that were quite too much for Revenant and that they should be reviewed again for the sake of the class health as this is one of the main traitline used.

> * **Incensed Response** needed to be nerfed, I agree with Anet's reasoning, but not like this. Either reduce the **Might Duration** or the amount of **Might gained**. Do it for WvW as well, not just PvP, the synergy is broken on Herald, that's it. Otherwise it's useless.

 

I agree with you here for WvW, but is it still problematic in PvP? Genuinely asking because it seems like it got hit haaaard in PvP. In WvW, the trait is dumb. I'd like to see it reworked because the ease at which 25 might stacks are obtainable is just silly. Along with that, I'd like to see all 25 self-stacking might potential to be hard nerfed on all classes. It's such a hyperinflation of one's stats and Herald's synergy is just unhealthy, especially combined with traits like Notoriety. Is it fun and does it give viability to less powerful builds? Yes, but I'd rather that be done through other means and not effortless 25 might stacks.

 

> * **Charged Mists** requirements are too high and makes it purely a PvE trait until the required energy is increased to 25, it's already hard enough to keep the energy low while being effective and stunbreaking at the same time, traits should work together not against each other. If you really want to make it casual, have no requirement at all and just grant 25 energy on legend swap in combat, players are giving up on instant invoking effects/critical chance for this, it wouldn't break balance at all.

 

If I had to estimate, I'd say I have an approximate 85% success rate with proccing Charged Mists in WvW, but I would argue that it is probably due to the skill level of the enemy players being lower, and the game mode in general being more casual, so I see your point. 25 is a nice number, but perhaps start lower with 15 or 20? I am not opposed to it being 25, but perhaps it is just a personal thing that I like the challenge because 25 extra energy is a *huge* reward--considering that is 5 seconds worth of 0-upkeep energy regeneration--and *should* require finesse. I'd rather it be harder to execute with a meaty 25-energy reward than for the threshold to be lowered and eventually have it nerfed to a lower yield because it becomes so easy to proc.

 

> * **Roiling Mists** was nerfed along many things, including **Main-Hand Sword** and **Incensed Response** which was too much, it hit Revenant greatly and not so much for Herald nor Renegade. It needs to be brought back the way it was.

 

I agree. This change felt misguided and I'd like to see it reverted. The only PvP I do is playing meme builds in the arena pit, but I feel for my PvP Revenant brethren on this one.

 

>

> ## _Devastation_

> Most changes have been justified, nothing to lose hope on. Damage was really high, but one trait really stands out.

> * **Assassin's Annihilation** should always Siphon no matter the direction that someone is facing, it's too situational and the ICD only makes that worst. **Vengeful Hammers** even though are hitting on the sides doesn't always count either. Comparably to Steadfast Rejuvenation, this trait has the potential to encourage aggressive play for sustain as well as giving the opportunity to use Versed in Stone more likely, given Shiro/Dwarf Revenants are extremely vulnerable to condition bursts.

 

I'd be cool with that. I don't think it would be game-breaking by any means.

 

>

> ## _Retribution_

> The design of the traits is good, but some of the ICDs are making them bad.

> * **Close Quarters** is a very low bonus to trade off **Planar Protection**, considering it destroy projectiles at range at applies Weakness at close. 15-20% would be more reasonable given that there's nothing to gain from being "Close Quarters" with it.

 

This trait is definitely eclipsed by Planar Protection, but perhaps have it scale based on range? A max of 20% damage reduction is huge, especially for an adept.

 

> * **Spiritual Reckoning** ICD is high for how short the boon is. Increasing the duration to 5 seconds would fix that. Removing the ICD would make it spammable which is bad.

 

Yeah, the ICD is far too high. I think your suggestion is fine. I have also thought it'd be nice to make it apply AoE Retal since both the ICD is high and the duration is short.

 

> * **Eye for an Eye** ICD too high, asking for Jalis players to not get stunned every so often with all the boon removal, 25 seconds would be more reasonable, the trait really has to be good to justify not taking **Dwarven Battle Training**.

 

This would definitely make the trait better, but I still would take Dwarven Battle Training over it in like almost every scenario. This would perhaps be too OP, but I still miss the old Herald major master trait that would apply 2s of AoE protection on heal usage. I would love to see it return here in place of its current form, to diversity group access to the boon beyond Glint.

 

> * **Versed in Stone** the toughness benefit in PvP is too low, should be at least as high as **Armored Attack** on Warrior.

 

Yeah, I am surprised how low the toughness benefit of it is. Personally, I'd like to see the toughness benefit and the passive proc removed and for it to apply AoE stab in X radius with like a 45-second ICD or something. Potentially too high of Stability yield if using Jalis, but it would be a really awesome change for helping bolster support Rev in WvW.

 

> ## _Salvation_

> This traitline is actually good and fairly varied, the only problem is orbs. Please Anet, either rework the traits based on orbs altogether or make the orbs track players. There's too much visual clutter or RNG to make it viable. Fragments are already random enough.

 

Yes please. Just rework the kitten orbs. I have been thinking about a couple quirky changes that they could do for the traitline, and to help gear it to more supportive options, here are a couple off-the-wall ideas I figured I'd share:

-Vital Blessing: Reworked to *Harmonic Inversion:* Dark fields you apply are now light fields. Fire fields you apply are now water fields. Combo fields you apply gain increased radius. (A way of diversifying the role of mace, Mallyx, and other skills like Hammer 4 and Planar Protection).

-Words of Censure: Reworked to *Purifying Surge:* Successful blast finishers remove conditions from nearby allies (5+s ICD). Apply regeneration when cleansing a conditoin from an ally.

 

> # Legendary Stances

>

> ## _Legendary Assassin_

> The most popular so it's kept in check a lot, but there's still one thing that really needs to be changed.

> * **Impossible Odds**, please Anet make the upkeep -6. It's too high for the current benefits now, there's practically no reason to use it offensively because of the high cost. My post related to it here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83603/if-impossible-odds-has-to-be-nerfed-that-badly#latest

 

Agreed.

 

> ## _Legendary Centaur_

> This one is really powerful but requires such precise plays and in team fights it's always likely to be killed if targeted due to the following.

> * **Project Tranquility** should "tether" the Tablet and "follow" the player until **Ventari's Will** is used where manual control is took until **Energy Expulsion** is used to reset it back to tether. This is an important change that needs to be looked into with how clunky it is to handle, have the players will lose the benefits of using

 

I have previously been against this concept, but I perhaps could see this working if Natural Harmony got a cast time. Even though I would fear changing Ventari in this sort of manner would be dumbing it down too much, it would make it significantly stronger in WvW.

 

> * **Purifying Essence** absolutely needs to be a stunbreak, make it happen so that the legend can finally step out of the Glint/Jalis combo's, it sucks to be so limited. There is too much CC in the game to say that one legend should not have one. Even if the Tablet can be handled while stunned among other things, the pressure is too great, Ventari bonuses are all outgoing, there's nothing to recover from a stunlock the moment a whole entire zerg decides to focus the user entering the stance. While at it, an additional condition for a total of 4 and 30 energy to unify around the other stunbreak skills.

 

Yeah, agreed 100%.

 

>

> ## _Legendary Demon_

> Fantastic rework from Anet on that one, while I do miss the old AoE spam. This is miles better than the old glaring issues **Unyielding Anguish** and **Embrace the Darkness** had. Quite nearly perfect I'd say, but one thing that really needs to be added.

 

Agreed. Mallyx feels juicy now. The more recent polish they did to it made the legend feel so good and is a blast to play. I'd possibly like to see some adjustments to power modifiers on Banish Enchantment or Embrace the Darkness to make it more versatile for power builds, but otherwise the legend feels really nice.

 

> # Elite Specializations

>

> # **Herald**

>

> ## _Shield_

> Good asset to any bruiser/sustain builds, but both skills could use some work.

> * **Envoy of Exuberance** is.. Alright, but please make the hitbox bigger, move faster as well as fixing **Aegis** blocking the skill.. Also the sending/returning energy to grant Protection consistently from to teammates/users, it has potent uses but those needs to be polished.

 

Agreed. Additionally, I'd like for the traveling projectile to heal/grant protection and for the "blast" to extend boons by 2 seconds. That old GM Herald trait had some niche uses and reintroducing it would be a nice way of complementing Herald's boon focus, and giving a nice synergy with True Nature - Dragon.

 

> * **Crystal Hybernation** with such a big root might as well maybe make blocking 4 seconds, just like the same amount of pulses (Not sure on that one). Those pulses should also affect allies in a radius of 360, make Herald be more supportive oriented so that most can finally stop complaining at how selfish of a skill it is even though there's many like it in the game.

 

This would be so sexy. Like possibly too strong with all of the healing modifiers Herald has access to? It would be like a smaller Empower, but with the possibility of having it cleanse 4x too. Even if it remained stationary it'd be so delicious for support specs.

 

>

> ## _Traits_

> Herald has only one trait that really is lacking.

> * **Core Value** needs to do twice of what it already does. Every benefits from it are not good enough to pick over **Rising Momentum**.

 

Agreed. This trait is so boring. Alternatively, I'd like for it to reduce True Nature's cooldown by 20%.

 

> ## _Legendary Dragon_

> Again, most of those skills are quite fine tuned aside a few things.

> * **True Nature** is the best change Herald has seen in it's entire existence, I'm very glad Anet has done it but that nerf on Assassin for the radius is terrible, just remove the damage and restore the radius on it. Keep things uniform please.

 

I'd be okay with that. I'd rather the more reliable boon removal functionality than the damage.

 

> * **Gaze of Darkness** changes are great, even though it was bugged for a while. The radius increase is quite welcomed but if the Revealed cannot be applied unless the foe is in stealth, I and most people would agree that they'd prefer the old one because prevention does a lot more than just hoping to time it right as Stealth is used, people can evade it.

 

Yeah, it sucks to not be able to use it preemptively. I prefer the old version as well.

 

> * **Chaotic Release** is an odd one, does it really deserve to not have 20 seconds cooldown where we have a CC on all legends that have a much lower cooldown that shares similar if not more reliable features as they are much less telling than this skill. Pretty sure people were just thrown off by the fact it was quicker and not used often when it was buffed.

 

Eh, 20s is so low. I'm on the fence on this honestly. 30s maybe?

>

> # **Renegade**

>

> ## _Shortbow_

> Good, but EXTREMELY clunky..

> * **Sevenshot** needs to be a beautiful circle of arrow that projects in a concentrated dot in front of the player rather than forcing the player to have the perfect distance, timing and accuracy to land full damage while it's cool looking but a worthless design at any range that doesn't respect it.

 

Dude, brilliant idea.

 

> * **Spiritcrush** directional requirement is terrible, there shouldn't be a need for line of sight when arrows are shot strategically in a portal regardless. **Bloodbane Path** doesn't so why this one?

 

Yup, unnecessarily clunkiness to the skill. I could've sworn it didn't have this requirement immediately on PoF launch, but then it got added in. Could be misremembering.

 

> * **Scorchrazor** ruins the flow with it's ¾ cast time, very often it goes on full cooldown even though the skill didn't even cast as the user try to kite. Make it uniform with the rest of it's skills with ½ cast time or fix the influence of movement on it.

 

I'm with the "fix the influence of movement on it." Sucks to have it fail randomly. Perhaps this is part of what you were implying, but I'd like for the user to rotate towards the target when casting the skill, like most skills do.

 

 

 

Overall, some great ideas in there.

[Shao.7236]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> **Disagree on:**

>

> **Death Strike:** Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

 

Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

 

> **Incensed Response:** Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly **it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes.** It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

 

I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

 

> **Diabolic Inferno:** Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. **However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%.** If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

 

This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

 

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think ham 4 should get changed to a 3 sec frontal block.

citadel bombardment should be 15e in all modes with burns 2 stax at 2 sec.

can't disagree with shield 5 allowing movement. would be nice if shield 4 prot was longer.

would be nice if all for one affected citadel orders instead.

finally, make renegade summons unkillable already...

 

edit

ventari still needs a stunbreak.

orbs would be fine with bigger radius.

tablet summon should be near instant.

 

I think rev has a little too much quickness uptime but might just be me.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > ## _Legendary Demon_

> > Fantastic rework from Anet on that one, while I do miss the old AoE spam. This is miles better than the old glaring issues **Unyielding Anguish** and **Embrace the Darkness** had. Quite nearly perfect I'd say, but one thing that really needs to be added.

>

> Agreed. Mallyx feels juicy now. The more recent polish they did to it made the legend feel so good and is a blast to play. I'd possibly like to see some adjustments to power modifiers on Banish Enchantment or Embrace the Darkness to make it more versatile for power builds, but otherwise the legend feels really nice.

I tried Mallyx as Power, EtD is about on part with Vengeful Hammers but I'd buff it a little among the rest yeah.

 

> > * **Chaotic Release** is an odd one, does it really deserve to not have 20 seconds cooldown where we have a CC on all legends that have a much lower cooldown that shares similar if not more reliable features as they are much less telling than this skill. Pretty sure people were just thrown off by the fact it was quicker and not used often when it was buffed.

>

> Eh, 20s is so low. I'm on the fence on this honestly. 30s maybe?

I feel the same about it, but the way core revenant can CC chain so much feels like that it's not really unfair. Could just be me though.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I think ham 4 should get changed to a 3 sec frontal block.

 

Will never and should never happen. They would ramp up the cd to 20 as its a block shield that you can be offensive behind. That it's cd is so low currently is amazing. Not enough pewpew rangers complaining about it in wvw I suppose.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > **Disagree on:**

> >

> > **Death Strike:** Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

>

> Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

 

> > **Incensed Response:** Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly **it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes.** It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

>

> I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

 

I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

 

 

> > **Diabolic Inferno:** Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. **However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%.** If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

>

> This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

 

This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > **Disagree on:**

> > >

> > > **Death Strike:** Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

> >

> > Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

>

> I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

The skill was sped up 3 times in it's history, the second time was plenty.

> > > **Incensed Response:** Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly **it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes.** It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

> >

> > I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

>

> I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

I would rather see 2 Might that lasts for 8 seconds or 5 Might that lasts for 4 seconds, not 2 Might for 4 seconds. It's not a nerf, it's a buff to the current existing PvP split and should the WvW also have the same features. Given how the stats are handled already, easy 25 Might is too much.

>

> > > **Diabolic Inferno:** Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. **However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%.** If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

> >

> > This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

>

> This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

 

Torment in most PvE scenario's is never fulled used at it's best while Burning is, it's also easily accessible with Shortbow as well as Mace.

 

As it currently stands Pulsating Pestilence is in a bad spot from it's design along with Maniacal Persistence, lot of damage wasted when on self too. Giving Burning 20% damage and duration with the bonus Burning every 8 seconds is pretty big and can actually compensate for the Torment damage lost given the right skills are used.

 

I know that you see Diabolic Inferno as a DPS increase, but it's pretty insignificant. Torment has big numbers, but they're nothing compared what Burning could offer if it was changed this way, it could actually outclass it in fact while earning proper trait placements with Pulsating Pestilence.

 

Maniacal Persistence needs to have Torment on self fixed with expertise/condition duration bonuses while keeping the low damaging factor so that it can be stacked and transferred even better, as little people know the Torment on self is actually powerful and nothing to mess around with, but until True Nature was changed it was impossible to transfer back. Now it is and it would be best if it could be done seamlessly on core specialization traits first hand.

 

Making the traits be;

 

* Extra and better Burning at a cost of better Torment/Torment application which is a good deal considered the bonuses given easily outclass Torment as a whole.

* Improved Torment application as well as output to trade off better Burning and Torment.

* Better Torment at a cost of application and better Burning.

 

And finally it solves the inconsistent problems that Corruption had, at least with only Replenishing Despair left to fix.

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > **Disagree on:**

> > > >

> > > > **Death Strike:** Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

> > >

> > > Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

> >

> > I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

> The skill was sped up 3 times in it's history, the second time was plenty.

 

It was only sped up one time in its history according to the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike

 

> > > > **Incensed Response:** Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly **it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes.** It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

> > >

> > > I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

> >

> > I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

> I would rather see 2 Might that lasts for 8 seconds or 5 Might that lasts for 4 seconds, not 2 Might for 4 seconds. It's not a nerf, it's a buff to the current existing PvP split and should the WvW also have the same features. Given how the stats are handled already, easy 25 Might is too much.

 

I think a buff for the PvP version from 2 stacks 8s would be fine, but WVW roaming Rev doesn’t need a night gen decrease. Easy 25 is still fine for WvW roaming for the class and in zergs you get 25 might from allies anyway.

 

> >

> > > > **Diabolic Inferno:** Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. **However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%.** If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

> > >

> > > This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

> >

> > This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

>

> Torment in most PvE scenario's is never fulled used at it's best while Burning is, it's also easily accessible with Shortbow as well as Mace.

>

> As it currently stands Pulsating Pestilence is in a bad spot from it's design along with Maniacal Persistence, lot of damage wasted when on self too. Giving Burning 20% damage and duration with the bonus Burning every 8 seconds is pretty big and can actually compensate for the Torment damage lost given the right skills are used.

>

> I know that you see Diabolic Inferno as a DPS increase, but it's pretty insignificant. Torment has big numbers, but they're nothing compared what Burning could offer if it was changed this way, it could actually outclass it in fact while earning proper trait placements with Pulsating Pestilence.

>

> Maniacal Persistence needs to have Torment on self fixed with expertise/condition duration bonuses while keeping the low damaging factor so that it can be stacked and transferred even better, as little people know the Torment on self is actually powerful and nothing to mess around with, but until True Nature was changed it was impossible to transfer back. Now it is and it would be best if it could be done seamlessly on core specialization traits first hand.

>

> Making the traits be;

>

> * Extra and better Burning at a cost of better Torment/Torment application which is a good deal considered the bonuses given easily outclass Torment as a whole.

> * Improved Torment application as well as output to trade off better Burning and Torment.

> * Better Torment at a cost of application and better Burning.

>

> And finally it solves the inconsistent problems that Corruption had, at least with only Replenishing Despair left to fix.

>

 

If pulsating pestilence is the issue you’re trying to fix then just move or get rid of opportune extraction; it’s not even a good trait to begin with and cRev would certainly benefit more

 

Sure, Diabolic Inferno only adds like 1k, but it would still end up a 1k nerf if you had to choose Yearning Empowerment over it. Plus, Yearning Empowerment also gives +20% damage to torment, which is a direct modifier to the main damage source. I don’t think, based on the numbers, that +20% burning would be enough to make it top torment, but perhaps with baelfire runes it would be? Hard to say. Still think it would be a net nerf tho

[zaswer.5246]

I think there are a couple things you are missing ,also i want to make clear that im mostly pve (raids,fractas and so) than pvp.

In devastation we have ferocious strikes and vicious lacerations in the same column, i think they should change ferocious strikes or take it out for other trait because both are self dmg increase traits that ,if you compare, even in pvp i think VL is much better . So maybe increasing FS to 350 could be better. Also i think assasins presence should be changed to another legend , i understand Devastation is shiros trait line but if you look at it closely you can see all the other traits in it give personal buffs while AP is a group buff so putting it in invocation could be better and maybe changing it ,to put an example:

Legendary presence : in accordance with the legend you are in this moment you give a buff to you group. Shiro being 150 feroc/power, jalis 150 though ,ventary 150healing power, mallynx 150 condidmg, glint 150concentration,kalla 150feroc/expertise.

Also while agree that sword 4 would be good with a block i think you could make shield block better(letting you move for example) and make sword off be purely offensive with the risk of not being able to block .

Pls make sword 3 animation a bit faster or smooth as i think that the "cast" or animation is too slow and seems akward (at least with my charr)

I agree that needing to be under 10 energy to get that 25 extra is difficult in pvp if not impossible so i agree in that trait chaning and maybe getting a trait that increases our energy cap .

Regarding true nature i think glints one is great while the other ones are mostly usseles , i mean theyre not bad but either other classes or ourself with other skills can make something similar or better so maybe it should be changed to get something more unique from other legends.Maybe shiro giving a bit more att speed ,jalis i dont know ,ventari cleansing condis ,and mallynx pulsing condis (triing not to get it broken) . But to tell the truth i think that core revenant f2 turning into facet of nature would be better , i mean a not upkeep skill that replenish 30 energy and gives a buff like the ones we already have for 10 seconds or so , it would make it a fresh air between all the glints upkeep ,maintain its use and also help revenants with energy sustain.

In mallynx i would merge the heal and pain absortion because you usually have to use them together (as i have seen)

And one last thing , i understand that revenants have 10 skills in stead of 5 but we have a lot of skills that are used only in certain circunstances and in others are useless so please make one skill more per legend or let us use racial skills .

Im not sure if you agree with me or not but thats just my opinion if you have a different one just tell us what do you think and maybe between all of us we can make revenant a great class (more than it is mow without being broken)

[Tammuz.7361]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

 

indeed, this would pretty much kill rev off in wvw, and kill the game for me

[Justine.6351]

> @"Tammuz.7361" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

>

> indeed, this would pretty much kill rev off in wvw, and kill the game for me

 

I mean right?

the number of revs in zergs has tanked and literally nothing has changed,

just lol...