Arden.7480 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Absolutely must read: https://imgur.com/a/xdBFBBI You can find original posts on his Twitter account: Also today he will be present at Guild Chat, so you simply MUST watch this episode, because Tom Abernathy is one of the BEST-EST person at Arenanet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatte.5389 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Can you give any context what this is about? Spoilers about what, the newest episode or what's coming next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think it's his reaction to the recent posts about Almorra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Killing her off in the way they did was actually well paced and definitely is getting the job done in the way they intended. It was supposed to be anti-climactic. And seeing these tweets I have a bit of hope that its the start of something they're building up. The Vigil will not respond quietly when the word spreads. The Boneskinner on the other hand was not built up near the same level of quality. It was not built up properly. Probably because its easier to get into its meta end and miss the events leading up to it. I encountered one of its camps many hours after fighting the boss multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I've been saying similar things about serial storytelling for a while. I find it annoying when people complain and cry 'bad writing' if a TV show (or whatever) introduces a new plot element (character, setting, event etc.) and doesn't fully explain exactly what it is and resolve any uncertainties about it right away - either in the same episode or in episodes available at the same time. I'm not sure if it's a result of getting used to "binge watching" an entire TV show in one go so everything is resolved by the time you get to think about it or simply impatience, but either way I find it frustrating. I enjoy having time to speculate on a story as it's going along but so many people these days will just immediately shut down any discussion, dismissing it as bad writing if there's any ambiguity, or refuse to discuss it at all until everyone had gotten to the end and knows exactly what happens. Whilst I can definitely appreciate having the freedom to watch a TV show on your own schedule instead of when the creators choose to make it available I've appreciated that some shows (like Watchmen) are still released one episode at a time for exactly that reason. > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said: > Killing her off in the way they did was actually well paced and definitely is getting the job done in the way they intended. It was supposed to be anti-climactic. And seeing these tweets I have a bit of hope that its the start of something they're building up. The Vigil will not respond quietly when the word spreads. > > The Boneskinner on the other hand was not built up near the same level of quality. It was not built up properly. Probably because its easier to get into its meta end and miss the events leading up to it. I encountered one of its camps many hours after fighting the boss multiple times. I agree that it's getting the job done. I've seen a lot of people who were genuinely upset to see her go and I don't think it would have had the same reaction if they'd had her go out in a blaze of glory, like facing down Kralkatorrik. It was the tragedy of her death after all she's achieved that really had an impact. That and the lead up, I don't know about anyone else but even though the message at the start was obviously suspect I spent the entire search assuming we'd find her alive. (Also entirely realistic, not everyone gets the death they 'deserve'. As pointed out by someone in my guild whose grandfather fought in 2 world wars, got awarded for bravery and died of a heart attack cycling home from his job at a garage.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 I made a mistake and posted the same thread on reddit. I am crying because this toxicity on Tom and GW2 is killing me. Nothing is ever perfect, but Tom is trying to make this game's story so compelling, I can see how he cares. Am in the minority of people that love this game? Why I feel so lonely when I talk about how I love GW2? Is there something wrong with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I like the direction that he (and the team) went with Almorra. I also completely agree with his twitter post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anninke.7469 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I wouldn't be so quick with the "toxicity" judgement. I honestly believe that many people are upset because they liked Almorra and just vent their sadness in this stupid way. I got to that point late in the evening and then spent the night hating Anet really really much for her death. Which probably means that it worked kitten well, right? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoid.2568 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Only Blizzard can deliver $10m cinematics for one characters death. ArenaNet are doing what they can with the money they have and also.. not all dies heroically infront of an audience, some dies heroically alone and in only the absence of the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Whilst he is right, this is the downside of episodic mmo content which suffers in the long game. The writers also rush things out which doesn’t help leaving more questions than answers. As I said after LS1, they see the story ahead so it makes sense - we do not. This is not factored into their writing. He’s also not sounding very aggrieved he’s just giving some context - which will fly over most people’s heads anyway as this isn’t a tv show For the record, I had no issue with Almorra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbru.6014 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Imagine if they had worked up something where the Boneskinner killed Almorra. Would have added a lot more depth and horror to the already spooky situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > I made a mistake and posted the same thread on reddit. > > I am crying because this toxicity on Tom and GW2 is killing me. > > Nothing is ever perfect, but Tom is trying to make this game's story so compelling, I can see how he cares. > > Am in the minority of people that love this game? Why I feel so lonely when I talk about how I love GW2? Is there something wrong with me? No you're not wrong for liking something other people don't like (or don't like as much), but equally they're not wrong for having a different opinion and not liking something you do. Unless of course they're misunderstood the information they used to form their opinion (like one person I saw who thought the writers had completely messed up and accidentally released episode 2 first because they thought we were supposed to deal with Bangar and Ryland before Jormag's minions got involved). But it's also a common feature of forums, and possibly the internet in general. I used to be part of several fan forums for specific bands and if you spent any time there you could be forgiven for thinking that no one actually liked them or any of their music - thousands of screaming fans at concerts not withstanding. If a song wasn't cheesy generic rubbish it was a desperate attempt to do something different which only revealed their inability to play anything beyond the basics or showed they didn't understand the genre at all and didn't care because they were catering entirely to tone deaf morons who would buy it just because magazines were paid off to pretend it was good. But if an 'outsider' said the same thing - say for example if one of those magazines who obviously only ever printed what the records companies told them instead printed a negative review - they'd be furious. The forum would be full of people raging about how the reviewer clearly didn't understand and couldn't appreciate how great it was and they'd swam the site with negative comments. I think it's a combination of a few things, mainly that it's easier to say more about something you didn't like, especially in an on-going conversation. "I like it" "Yeah I like it too" "I thought it was good" quickly gets boring and drops off, but discussing what was wrong and could be done better and differently could go on indefinitely. That and, especially in a place where it's a safe assumption everyone actually likes the thing you're talking about (otherwise they wouldn't bother being here) very few people want to be the "fan boy" actually saying that they like it because that's not cool and ~~even~~ especially the people who will swear up and down they don't care what's cool want to avoid it. I went through that too (unfortunately _after_ starting on the internet with "I'm a 12 year old girl from the UK and my favourite Star Wars movie is Return of the Jedi, I like the ewoks"...which was an _interesting_ introduction to the wider world of humanity) but at some point in the decades between that and deciding I really did want the Dreamer and I don't care if it's 'cute' or 'girly' or 'obnoxious' I seem to have gone back to deciding I'm going to say if I like stuff and not worry about the reactions, valid or otherwise. Often my criteria is quite different - for example I'll enjoy a movie or game other people are raging at for terribly story telling because my criteria isn't "Is this one of the finest examples of storytelling and the key strengths of this particular medium I've ever seen?" it's "Is this a fun way to spend some time?" and if it isn't fun I probably wouldn't have gotten to the end to be able to discuss it and I'm certainly not going to waste even more time telling everyone just how bad it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Whilst he is right, this is the downside of episodic mmo content which suffers in the long game. The writers also rush things out which doesn’t help leaving more questions than answers. > > As I said after LS1, they see the story ahead so it makes sense - we do not. This is not factored into their writing. > > He’s also not sounding very aggrieved he’s just giving some context - which will fly over most people’s heads anyway as this isn’t a tv show > > For the record, I had no issue with Almorra. > > I don’t see it so much as rushing the story but more along the lines of spreading it across more episodes. Similar to spreading a season of Stranger Things from 8 episodes of roughly 60 minutes each to 16 episodes of roughly 30 minutes each. In the end you get the same amount of content/story. There isn’t anything different from a TV show episode and an episode in GW2 other than you actively participating in one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > I think it's his reaction to the recent posts about Almorra. I don't understand people complaining about her death, either. It is clear as the summer sky that we will learn more about the circumstances later on, when... >! ...we catch up with Bangar, because - as mentioned in the episode - she was buried by someone, and the Svanir didn't care enough to go through the hassle of doing that, so it must have been the Charr. We know Bangar admired Almorra for what she had done for the Charr in the past, regardless of their differences today. Now, the exciting part will be: what is his angle with the Svanir? Because they had Almorra's comm device and Jormag only could use Almorra's body after she was dead, so... How do Bangar and his fanatics fit in? Did they craft an agreement with Jormag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > Whilst he is right, this is the downside of episodic mmo content which suffers in the long game. The writers also rush things out which doesn’t help leaving more questions than answers. > > > > As I said after LS1, they see the story ahead so it makes sense - we do not. This is not factored into their writing. > > > > He’s also not sounding very aggrieved he’s just giving some context - which will fly over most people’s heads anyway as this isn’t a tv show > > > > For the record, I had no issue with Almorra. > > > > > > I don’t see it so much as rushing the story but more along the lines of spreading it across more episodes. Similar to spreading a season of Stranger Things from 8 episodes of roughly 60 minutes each to 16 episodes of roughly 30 minutes each. In the end you get the same amount of content/story. > > There isn’t anything different from a TV show episode and an episode in GW2 other than you actively participating in one of them. There are a couple of differences I can see - Episodes On TV are at worst weekly. Living world episodes are 2-3 months at best. That’s a huge gap to lose interest and come unhooked - TV episodes are a constant flow of story. Game episodes are much less story because a lot of time needs to be devoted around gameplay and mechanics. That causes a big loss in potential story and how much depth can be added. Consequently shorter episodes are felt even more keenly Combined together, the pay off can take months or years in a game episode compared to a TV series. Also, TV episode lengths are the same week on week whilst Living World episodes vary hugely and plus different teams deliver different qualities. I’ve always felt episodic content inferior as a result of all these things. And I don’t think Anet have ever truly - consistently - unlocked the right way to deliver it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I gave up on any expectation of quality writing during the whole Mary-Sue Scarlett fiasco. With my expectations are set appropriately low, the story through the last several episodes are ok. When the inconsistencies and ridiculous decisions get to be too much, I just go to WvW and pick as many fights as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Tonn, Belinda, Eir, even Aurene. None of those were impactful deaths, just turning characters into cheap fodder for The Feels. Out of all of them, Tonn and/or the storyline mentor (Tybalt, Sieran, Vigil cranky man) are the only ones with possible impact. And seeing Almorra treated with the same chump indignity as Eir, yeah, people are going to get mad and question the writing. The extra "wait and see, ohoho" backstab on Twitter (not even the forums...) is just further insult. Some of the strongest criticisms on reddit and elsewhere are some very well written thoughts on the matter, and it strikes me as tone-deaf to discount them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > I made a mistake and posted the same thread on reddit. > > I am crying because this toxicity on Tom and GW2 is killing me. > > Nothing is ever perfect, but Tom is trying to make this game's story so compelling, I can see how he cares. > > Am in the minority of people that love this game? Why I feel so lonely when I talk about how I love GW2? Is there something wrong with me? Tons of people love this game. Despite its continuing downward spiral, I do too. The difference in part is that you have struck up a rapport previously with some of the team. Which is great and fine, but because no dev can do that with everyone and they have been very poor at community relations over the years, there are always going to be a distance between devs and players in places. However let’s be clear. No form of toxicity or outright rudeness is ever tolerable. Negativity and criticism certainly but never crossing that line. I may not approve of the quality and direction but I recognise the devs do work hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > > Whilst he is right, this is the downside of episodic mmo content which suffers in the long game. The writers also rush things out which doesn’t help leaving more questions than answers. > > > > > > As I said after LS1, they see the story ahead so it makes sense - we do not. This is not factored into their writing. > > > > > > He’s also not sounding very aggrieved he’s just giving some context - which will fly over most people’s heads anyway as this isn’t a tv show > > > > > > For the record, I had no issue with Almorra. > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see it so much as rushing the story but more along the lines of spreading it across more episodes. Similar to spreading a season of Stranger Things from 8 episodes of roughly 60 minutes each to 16 episodes of roughly 30 minutes each. In the end you get the same amount of content/story. > > > > There isn’t anything different from a TV show episode and an episode in GW2 other than you actively participating in one of them. > > There are a couple of differences I can see > > - Episodes On TV are at worst weekly. Living world episodes are 2-3 months at best. That’s a huge gap to lose interest and come unhooked > The gap between TV episodes vs GW2 episodes doesn’t matter. You can increase the time between TV episodes that you watch but that doesn’t change the TV episodes nor their season. The trend LS4 episodes were going was roughly four months. They essentially are splitting the episodes in have for season 5 and we’re getting them in half the time. It’ll be content more frequently. > - TV episodes are a constant flow of story. Game episodes are much less story because a lot of time needs to be devoted around gameplay and mechanics. That causes a big loss in potential story and how much depth can be added. Consequently shorter episodes are felt even more keenly > TV episodes have less development time and a fair percentage of the season is produced before it airs. You’re not going to get anywhere near the same as that unless we go with a content drought and they produce a season similar to an expansion but then piecemeal it out in small quantities. You’ll still have those upset about receiving so little story or content despite receiving it more frequently and the total product being no different than under the previous release schedule. > Combined together, the pay off can take months or years in a game episode compared to a TV series. > I’m not following you on what you mean by payoff. > Also, TV episode lengths are the same week on week whilst Living World episodes vary hugely and plus different teams deliver different qualities. > As I touched on above, the production of TV episodes require significantly less resources/time than LW episodes. Anet could certainly take an entire season’s worth of content and release it in weekly intervals. Would that be something the players would want? Based on the reaction I have seen on these forums and Reddit, I doubt it. They seem to be under the impression that you can cut the time between episode releases but someone create more content because of it. > I’ve always felt episodic content inferior as a result of all these things. And I don’t think Anet have ever truly - consistently - unlocked the right way to deliver it. Well would you prefer an expansion where you get everything released up front every two years with barely any content between then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > Well would you prefer an expansion where you get everything released up front every two years with barely any content between then? I would take a high quality, big expansion every 2 years over a mixed bag of episodes showing quality ranging from excellent to hugely rushed. I loved HoT, but the story was well under par for it could have been, with so much cut because the priority was to catch up from previous Seasons and then quickly keep pushing forward with the next Living World. As a result, we lost a lot of really good potential. I would have gladly suffered a long drought for a bigger, better upfront expac absolutely. HoT as it was kept me going for 2 years in its released state as it was. This of course is my personal opinion and I don't claim to represent everyone or a majority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphon.2875 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > I made a mistake and posted the same thread on reddit. > > I am crying because this toxicity on Tom and GW2 is killing me. > > Nothing is ever perfect, but Tom is trying to make this game's story so compelling, I can see how he cares. > > Am in the minority of people that love this game? Why I feel so lonely when I talk about how I love GW2? Is there something wrong with me? Nothing wrong with you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientist.6437 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Deaths happen off screen all of the time. Frequently those off screen deaths are revisited and developed further. I think we will learn more about her death later. The only thing I might have done differently is turn the discovery of her body into an instance so we could see the response of more NPCs. Pressing 'F' to uncover the body makes for an underwhelming scene. I agree with most of Tom Abernathy's tweet but I am also so bored with serialized dramas that add a lot of elements that go nowhere. The writer of The Watchmen series and Lost is an ideal example of someone adding elements for the sake of having more elements. Writers have to sell words but this approach feels mercantile. So far, Aurene's death falls into this category. It is rational for Tyrian Commanders to question if Almorra's death falls into this category. It all comes down to sticking the landing. Somehow, it is also appropriate to wish the studio luck by saying "break a leg". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said: > I gave up on any expectation of quality writing during the whole Mary-Sue Scarlett fiasco. With my expectations are set appropriately low, the story through the last several episodes are ok. > > When the inconsistencies and ridiculous decisions get to be too much, I just go to WvW and pick as many fights as I can. im just fine they moved from the 'investigate policial drama' to a more 'adult' stuff. i had no complains with last developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Only problem I have with this is anet themselfs have conditoned us that whats in said episode stay in said episode and is never expanded upon. As an example Sun's refuge could have been a instance we got to collect more for in the continued episodes but since some may have missed it that was never on the table. Same will happen here since some may miss episode 1 of icebrood saga nothing will get resloved later. Edit Ok apparently Tom clearly state in the latest guild chat that the death in episode 1 will be resovled later my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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