Thief still hitting for 5k

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. **I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been**. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. **yet anet seems to dont care.**

 

**+1**

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

 

-**current build variations included**-

 

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

**Redesign Is The Only Way**

[spankyed.4735]

Dont care about damage! But could please fix the teleport skills for thiefs, mesmers, ele there is no way u can catch those classes if u fight them on uneven ground!

Make it untargetable on higher ground!

p.s. dont waste time on balance, fix the old bug things!

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Being in stealth should make you lose the ability to dodge. - An amputated Mirage.

 

That would fix absolutely nothing about out of combat stealth, which is the problem, and make incombat stealth, which is already bad, even worse. Terrible idea. Even if I know its not a serious suggestion.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. yet anet seems to dont care.

 

Funny thing is, Mesmer has been the better Roamer than thief since about mid-way through HoT. They still might be, since power shatter Mesmers are doing pretty good, thats why you see so many Mesmers and not nearly as many thieves.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"spankyed.4735" said:

> Dont care about damage! But could please fix the teleport skills for thiefs, mesmers, ele there is no way u can catch those classes if u fight them on uneven ground!

> Make it untargetable on higher ground!

> p.s. dont waste time on balance, fix the old bug things!

 

You cant do that without doing it for every class, including Elementalist. Its also a bad reason to nerf it. You cant catch a Warrior on even ground as an Ele either, should we hit their mobility as well?

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > Being in stealth should make you lose the ability to dodge. - An amputated Mirage.

>

> That would fix absolutely nothing about out of combat stealth, which is the problem, and make incombat stealth, which is already bad, even worse. Terrible idea. Even if I know its not a serious suggestion.

 

Ok then take away all their dodges permanently for stealth access!

 

It obviously was a joke, and not the way I would deal with stealth balancing. I have a list of things they could do for balancing, but I wouldn't bother arguing about stealth in the forums anymore, because it's also obvious some players and even anet want it, in it's "balanced" broken state. So enjoy.

 

I also wouldn't mess with dodges as it is the one main base defense action for every single class, so yes giving daredevil an extra dodge or taking away a dodge from mirage was terrible as well as all the extra endurance regen added to the game, I even don't like how immobilize messing with it, but that's another balance topic for another time not from me.

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > > Being in stealth should make you lose the ability to dodge. - An amputated Mirage.

> >

> > That would fix absolutely nothing about out of combat stealth, which is the problem, and make incombat stealth, which is already bad, even worse. Terrible idea. Even if I know its not a serious suggestion.

>

> Ok then take away all their dodges permanently for stealth access!

>

> It obviously was a joke, and not the way I would deal with stealth balancing. I have a list of things they could do for balancing, but I wouldn't bother arguing about stealth in the forums anymore, because it's also obvious some players and even anet want it, in it's "balanced" broken state. So enjoy.

>

> I also wouldn't mess with dodges as it is the one main base defense action for every single class, so yes giving daredevil an extra dodge or taking away a dodge from mirage was terrible as well as all the extra endurance regen added to the game, I even don't like how immobilize messing with it, but that's another balance topic for another time not from me.

>

 

Im sure there are some in favour of permastealth, but most people dislike permastealth. The problem is that people seem to want to nerf *in-combat* stealth as well, despite the fact that its already underperfoming. That is silly. Out of combat permastealth does need some kind of change though, and weve had a couple good suggestions.

 

There is more to survivability than dodge. Messing with it is fine, so long as you dont over- or underdo it. Thief always had 3 dodges, they just took it away from Acro to give it to Daredevil (except the earlier version was better). That part is fine. And Mirage seems to do fine with 1 dodge as well, so that was probably fine too.

[cobbah.3102]

Just delete thief !! problem solved.

think I said this before

[kash.9213]

> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. yet anet seems to dont care.

 

That list of features sounds like the shittiest build to bang my head against the wall with. Why would you have all that nonsense in one build and who's letting you kill them with it?

[Sobx.1758]

> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol.

 

I think it's time for you to put your money where your mouth is by showing everyone how easy that is in your uncut 30 minute roaming thief video. :D

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"MarkBecks.6453" said:

> so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

 

5k is a third of your base hp without any toughness, protection, or other damage mitigation factored in. I don't think that's high damage. You can respond to that.

 

[schloumou.3982]

Spammed some duels against different classes after patch in obsi and there are some thief skills that need to be looked at. Got hit by 16k vaults on a 2,2k toughness Holo for example, which shouldn't happen if i understood the goals of the patch correctly.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"appelflap.8310" said:

> > I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. **I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been**. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. **yet anet seems to dont care.**

>

> **+1**

> (+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

>

> -**current build variations included**-

>

>

> -Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

> **Redesign Is The Only Way**

 

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

 

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"appelflap.8310" said:

> > I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. **I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been**. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. **yet anet seems to dont care.**

>

> **+1**

> (+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

>

> -**current build variations included**-

>

>

> -Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

> **Redesign Is The Only Way**

 

Looks more like a trait problem that needs to be addressed/revised.

[appelflap.8310]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"appelflap.8310" said:

> > I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. yet anet seems to dont care.

>

> That list of features sounds like the kitten build to bang my head against the wall with. Why would you have all that nonsense in one build and who's letting you kill them with it?

 

Tbh, i've been killing you this week with this build lol. So i dont get your point.

[rng.1024]

Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

 

That was rng Crit damage :).

 

Imo thief traits are the issue.

[rng.1024]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

>

> That was rng Crit damage :).

>

> Imo thief traits are the issue.

 

What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

 

I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

 

But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

 

Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

 

It's a strange time to play power.

[Safandula.8723]

I love all the mesmers taking voice in thief threads <3

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

> >

> > That was rng Crit damage :).

> >

> > Imo thief traits are the issue.

>

> What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

>

> I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

>

> But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

>

> Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

>

> It's a strange time to play power.

 

Zerker ele in 2o20? Lewl may as well run full grieving so you can QQ properly after ANETs "balance."

 

D:

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

> > >

> > > That was rng Crit damage :).

> > >

> > > Imo thief traits are the issue.

> >

> > What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

> >

> > I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

> >

> > But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

> >

> > Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

> >

> > It's a strange time to play power.

>

> Zerker ele in 2o20? Lewl may as well run full grieving so you can QQ properly after ANETs "balance."

>

> D:

 

Yeah, ele and it’s elites feel more they have to be hybrid or all rounders, zerker only for MS but that’s just one of the few keys elementalists can offer.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Imagine complaining about a thief doing damage equally what a rangers pet can passively do or when fb are doing 36k burns in matter of secs just to name a few. U can tell the biased thief hating is still strong post patch on this one haha thief building up to 5k backstabbs on zerk damage build that's glass, oh no lol

[rng.1024]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

> > >

> > > That was rng Crit damage :).

> > >

> > > Imo thief traits are the issue.

> >

> > What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

> >

> > I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

> >

> > But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

> >

> > Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

> >

> > It's a strange time to play power.

>

> Zerker ele in 2o20? Lewl may as well run full grieving so you can QQ properly after ANETs "balance."

>

> D:

 

Hehe yeah the damage is decent, but it comes at the tradeoff of only being able to facetank 2/3 of an Arc Divider or a Backstab into Heartseeker.

 

Grieving is nice, but that precision loss man.. I feel that's giving up too much instant burst for a damage type easily countered by a single cleanse with few cover conditions.

 

I enjoy fighting thieves nonetheless, even though I get punished harder than before if I mess up.

 

@"Aeolus.3615" Indeed ^^ It can work quite well as a full on bunker, but you can't really draw full benefit from offensive stats either as they are highly conditional (ferocity if in air attunement or with fury, extra power and might gain only in fire with no defense, dmg reduction only in earth with that traitline etc).

 

I never used to mind these with the old Arcane Prowess which granted a reliable source of fury, opening up for builds like earth, water, arcane, but now it's really felt. Even with revealed, this allows specs like thieves more pressure overall.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > > Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

> > > >

> > > > That was rng Crit damage :).

> > > >

> > > > Imo thief traits are the issue.

> > >

> > > What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

> > >

> > > I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

> > >

> > > But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

> > >

> > > Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

> > >

> > > It's a strange time to play power.

> >

> > Zerker ele in 2o20? Lewl may as well run full grieving so you can QQ properly after ANETs "balance."

> >

> > D:

>

> Hehe yeah the damage is decent, but it comes at the tradeoff of only being able to facetank 2/3 of an Arc Divider or a Backstab into Heartseeker.

>

> Grieving is nice, but that precision loss man.. I feel that's giving up too much instant burst for a damage type easily countered by a single cleanse with few cover conditions.

>

> I enjoy fighting thieves nonetheless, even though I get punished harder than before if I mess up.

>

> @"Aeolus.3615" Indeed ^^ It can work quite well as a full on bunker, but you can't really draw full benefit from offensive stats either as they are highly conditional (ferocity if in air attunement or with fury, extra power and might gain only in fire with no defense, dmg reduction only in earth with that traitline etc).

>

> I never used to mind these with the old Arcane Prowess which granted a reliable source of fury, opening up for builds like earth, water, arcane, but now it's really felt. Even with revealed, this allows specs like thieves more pressure overall.

 

Oh. Joke missed. Grieving = QQ = Crying...

 

D:

[rng.1024]

@"GDchiaScrub.3241"

I play core ele.. I'm all out of tears.. :s