I really want to like GW2, but the PvE is a huge turn off

[Drennon.7190]

Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

[AgentMoore.9453]

The expansions have room for improvement, but the nature of them is "end-game content" which implies that you'll be taking everything you learned in the core game and putting it to work, usually with a higher level of difficulty and with more coordination required.

 

Through that lens, expansions wouldn't offer enough to people to be worth the price tag if the difficulty and play style matched core Tyria. In essence they'd be like living story (which is free content), only you'd be throwing down $60. Part of an expansion's price is new features, new cosmetics, new lore, and new maps, but the gameplay in expansion content also has to feel unique in order to differentiate it from the stuff that comes free. This is why you see new systems put in place and new skills to be mastered. It's also important to remember that expansions usually involve being on the front lines of a battle against a massive world threat; casually exploring doesn't exactly jive with that.

[Drennon.7190]

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> casually exploring doesn't exactly jive with that.

 

I think difficult mobs makes sense, but jumping puzzles for progression?

[Dante.1763]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> > casually exploring doesn't exactly jive with that.

>

> I think difficult mobs makes sense, but jumping puzzles for progression?

 

Im actually asking because i can barely remember now, but what jumping puzzles exist in HoT and PoF that are required? A tip, if you find HoT annoying is to get the mounts from POF and go back, it makes exploring HoT incredibly easy and far less annoying.

[Westenev.5289]

Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update, essentially watering down combat to dps rotations (since dps is the only metric that matters anymore). I kind of miss core content, where skills could be used creatively to clear content faster. Things like mesmer portals or stealth for skips, or pushes and pulls to place bosses where you want them. Things that are reliant more on player knowledge rather than how well you can mash your keyboard.

 

Mixing masteries with story progression was a mistake imo. Masteries should have made content less tedious, not artificially block off story progression.

 

As for mob density... I'm not really feeling it. There are plenty of places to rest and take in the scenery... just don't try to do so on the ground floor of an enemy stronghold.

[Jilora.9524]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> > casually exploring doesn't exactly jive with that.

>

> I think difficult mobs makes sense, but jumping puzzles for progression?

 

There are tons extra mastery points then you need so they aren't required so feel free to skip if you don't like them or sometimes in lfg there's someone at the end you can tele to friend(if you have those) to in some cases but I don't remember many of those except in living story maps

[MikeG.6389]

No jumping puzzle is strictly required to progress the story. There are way more mastery points available than what's needed to complete all the tracks. But if by progression you mean completing everything the game has to offer, than it's a different question.

 

Mob density isn't an issue, I don't think. What bugs me more is the fact that there are certain waypoints where you are instantly attacked after teleporting there. These spots should have been designed with more care.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

 

You mean incredibly boring and tedious hearts?

 

> However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

> Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

> Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

> Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

 

Yes many of the masteries suck and mostly pointless like Raven Bright. -_-

 

As for the mastery points, none of the regions require you to get all of them which means you can skip a bunch you don't want to do.

 


All these are extra points that could have been skipped and that isn't even all of them.


 

If you want to suffer on behalf of completionism then that is a subject for a different sort of forum.

[Dante.1763]

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> No jumping puzzle is strictly required to progress the story. There are way more mastery points available than what's needed to complete all the tracks. But if by progression you mean completing everything the game has to offer, than it's a different question.

>

> Mob density isn't an issue, I don't think. What bugs me more is the fact that there are certain waypoints where you are instantly attacked after teleporting there. These spots should have been designed with more care.

 

Only issue i have with the mobs is the incredibly large aggro range they have. Really wanna take screenshots in some locations but cant cause i get attacked constantly :(

[Teratus.2859]

I dunno, if anything the expansions highlight for me just how little there is in the core world maps these days.. not to mention how poorly the entire Orr region is as that was supposed to be the endgame PvE region.

 

The expansions are not perfect by any means but they've definitely improved a lot of lackluster elements of the core world, I do wish Anet would spend a bit more time going back to the core world and upgrading some of it but I don't expect that to happen much if at all.

Current events did add some positive changes but they are minimal at best.

[coso.9173]

I think gw2 has some of the best pve fights in mmos in general.

If you want to just walk around the maps enjoying the scenery it's true that exoacs have more mob density though.

I would personally prefer less mobs but harder ones. Rather thantrash that dies fast but is everywhere.

Still much better than BDO though xD

[Ryou.2398]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

> However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

> Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

> Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

> Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

 

As an mmo vet I find the expansions quite interesting and unique, yes hot can be frustrating with certain classes, but if anyone knows anything about mmorpgs is they need replay value and the mastery system is more interesting then just gear, and I personally cannot believe someone is actually complaining about puzzles when other mmorpgs do not do things like this, If the grind is fun that is what should matter, I think your just basing this on the fact you do not like puzzles, but I do not think you realize how fun allot of them can be, especially with gliding and etc. I do wish they had some kind of alternate leveling system beyond elite specs, but as I said far more fun to me then other big mmos.

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > No jumping puzzle is strictly required to progress the story. There are way more mastery points available than what's needed to complete all the tracks. But if by progression you mean completing everything the game has to offer, than it's a different question.

> >

> > Mob density isn't an issue, I don't think. What bugs me more is the fact that there are certain waypoints where you are instantly attacked after teleporting there. These spots should have been designed with more care.

>

> Only issue i have with the mobs is the incredibly large aggro range they have. Really wanna take screenshots in some locations but cant cause i get attacked constantly :(

 

That wouldn't be so bad if they didn't also randomly go invulnerable while fighting them. That makes both running away AND fighting them as bad experience and no it has nothing to do the leashing mechanic. It occurs even when fighting mobs on the spot they spawned.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

> > However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

> > Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

> > Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

> > Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

>

> As an mmo vet I find the expansions quite interesting and unique, yes hot can be frustrating with certain classes, but if anyone knows anything about mmorpgs is they need replay value and the mastery system is more interesting then just gear, and I personally cannot believe someone is actually complaining about puzzles when other mmorpgs do not do things like this, If the grind is fun that is what should matter, I think your just basing this on the fact you do not like puzzles, but I do not think you realize how fun allot of them can be, especially with gliding and etc. I do wish they had some kind of alternate leveling system beyond elite specs, but as I said far more fun to me then other big mmos.

>

>

 

Think you got a point there, I have seen a lot of dislike for puzzles over the years, specifically the jumping ones which I can somewhat understand to a point.

If you have some kind of disability it can be an annoyance trying to slog though them and I can understand that but for the most part they are a pretty awesome and unsual thing to have in a MMO.

I enjoy them personally even though I also enjoy finding ways to skip them as well xD

[Dante.1763]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > > No jumping puzzle is strictly required to progress the story. There are way more mastery points available than what's needed to complete all the tracks. But if by progression you mean completing everything the game has to offer, than it's a different question.

> > >

> > > Mob density isn't an issue, I don't think. What bugs me more is the fact that there are certain waypoints where you are instantly attacked after teleporting there. These spots should have been designed with more care.

> >

> > Only issue i have with the mobs is the incredibly large aggro range they have. Really wanna take screenshots in some locations but cant cause i get attacked constantly :(

>

> That wouldn't be so bad if they didn't also randomly go invulnerable while fighting them. That makes both running away AND fighting them as bad experience and no it has nothing to do the leashing mechanic. It occurs even when fighting mobs on the spot they spawned.

 

Really? I thought i was going crazy when i would see that happen o-o

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

 

Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

 

Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

 

[Trise.2865]

Heart of Thorns was a pretty big difficulty spike. Not everyone liked that. Path of Fire evened it out a bit, but still has some challenging areas.

[aspirine.6852]

For me it's the other way around lately. I love the pve in gw.

[hellsqueen.3045]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

> However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

> Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

> Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

> Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

 

I completely disagree.

While I love core tyria, if I was playing level 80 stuff in core tyria all the time, I would get bored because to put it simply, there is only a small range of 80 maps there and you will get bored eventually.

 

HoT was a difficulty spike for sure, but I freaking loved it when it dropped. But it was funny watching all these people with no idea how to play the game expect to faceroll everything and then get no where with it.

I saw someone who level boosted their character and the equipped whatever they found that they thought was a rare item and put it on and thinking they would somehow be better. They were putting on yellows in a mix and match of stats. I told them they should have left on what their level boost came with because orange is the minimum best gear you need to do all content at level 80 and they told me they destroyed it and so I bought them new gear. That player would have gotten frustrated and left this game because they made poor decisions.

 

HoT was only "difficult" because too many players didn't improve their skills at the game. I still die there but I am also improving when there because it is the place I go after I level a character and pick my gear and go test how strong it is and what I need to improve on.

 

I also personally enjoy the mastery experience because there are so many ways to obtain the points themselves to spend the EXP on.

Acting like they are only in jumping puzzles is really misleading of you. There are so many throughout the story you pick up and via achievements which many involve fighting, etc. If you are only going after the JP ones, well that is on you.

And I like the mastery system, you learn to do something new via experience and then you spend points to learn it but it doesn't end up changing the maximum combat level, this is good because it means no matter where you go in the game, the maximum combat level remains the same as from core tyria, so someone late to the experience with their characters are able to jump on board and wouldn't be behind in levels, etc.

They just need to earn side levels for abilities that only some are required to finish the story attached to them and to simply explore the area. There are some optional achievements that require you to have everything, but you could complete most of it without.

 

You don't need the HoT poision mastery instantly, you can get there over time, it gives you something to come back for. That isn't a bad thing.

And it isn't hard to get to that point.

 

I have had zero issue with exploring either.

Yes, they aggro from further away, but rather than just expecting to stop in your tracks in a level 80 zone that is meant to be end game content, maybe consider clearing out the location you like and want screens of before just doing it.

 

You act like taking screens anywhere has always been smooth and uninterrupted by enemies. That's not true.

[Cobrakon.3108]

When you think about it, it makes sense. Central Tyria, even with its various problems and local conflicts, is more peaceful than Hot or Pof because the elder dragons are focusing on those areas. HoT Zones were under complete invasion of that area by the Modrem. Pof Zones are either being attacked by the branded or under tyranny from Joko's minions. So i think the density and difficulty issue makes sense. I will say however that a good deal of the PoF zones are easy to explore and traverse with raptor and bunny without having to level them.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

>

> Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

>

> Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

>

 

I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

[otto.5684]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> > > casually exploring doesn't exactly jive with that.

> >

> > I think difficult mobs makes sense, but jumping puzzles for progression?

>

> Im actually asking because i can barely remember now, but what jumping puzzles exist in HoT and PoF that are required? A tip, if you find HoT annoying is to get the mounts from POF and go back, it makes exploring HoT incredibly easy and far less annoying.

 

VB had a large and elaborate puzzle to get one of the mastery points. It is in one of the floating ships.

 

HoT surely had an accessibility issue, early on, since gliding is essential for everything. It is not unlocked by default. If you do not understand how important It is and invest in another mastery, you will regret it. And you really need max gliding to be able to traverse all HoT elaborate stuff, with ease. When you do though, HoT exploration is the peak of what GW2 open world has to offer.

 

PoF does not have this issue, but the maps... suck. Compare to core, HoT and most LW.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> >

> > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> >

> > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> >

>

> I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

 

Exactly.

 

If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

 

If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

 

If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

 

If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

 

 

 

I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

[Dave.6819]

The only problem i got with PvE is achievements actually and how they are hidden. There should be some in-game guide or obvious hints for players that want to focus on AP. Same thing for masteries. You just gotta figure out by yourself. Where and how and when. Without google or dulfy or TacO it wouldn't be possible at this point. That's how i tried to dive into PvE cuz i was tired of PvP. I tried to focus on AP so i would be more invested rather then just running same boring metas and farming gold.. and it works to some extent. When you focus on achievements new things open up and it isnt so boring. It gives a sense of goal. BUT. Most achievements are just barely explained with no locations no hints nothing at all. For example... try to do a Griffon or Skyscale without any guides. No google no dulfy no nothing... It's a complete headache and confusion.

[Pirogen.9561]

The whole HoT is a jumping puzzle.