Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> How on earth is it even possible to have anet devs notice that skills like rampage are overperforming and those skills getting buffed/existing in the game?

>

> "Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds."

>

> This change was like forever ago and rampage was already too good before the change and people wanted to get it nerfed but instead, somehow it got buffed despite overperforming?!?!? Any explanations/excuses for this?

>

> How is it possible that we have the worst balance ever and op skills are getting buffed and then suddenly you guys at anet are like "oh, these skills are overperforming after they were already overperforming and after the buff we made that made it overperform even more. Let's nerf it this time." ???????

>

> The development of gw2 balance is comparable to having a security breach that shows ppl bank information for everyone for 2 years and then after the damage is done the devs be like "oh, we noticed that and we are gonna fix it in the next upcoming patch sometimes during this or next year."

>

> Maybe the game is like this cause if I type anything "Anet offensive" aka negative words/feelings about the game (not sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows or quaggans and whatever nonsense we have in gw2) to this post it gets deleted so the feedback anet gets through the main channel is crippled to the point where these comparable things happen. I suggest rehiring the moderation team or change rules to allow people to express how they feel about the game as long as it's not personal.

I'm not surprised, though I probably should be, that people will complain about things taking too long to be fixed when they get fixed.

That being said, the same feedback has been given for years. There were changes made to how they handle PvP that has put someone who has touched the game competitively in a position of balance influence.

This has nothing to do with the moderation team. All of the feedback about balancing changes that haven't been personally aimed has by and large remained, it was just also largely ignored either by company policy or some other reason up to this point.

> @"aelska.4609" said:

> Also consider removing **sigil of energy**. Some classes are transformed into dodgemachines, there is no reason for a sigil to be that impactful on the game... especially when paired with dodge traits.

**Hard pass**. a quarter of an endurance bar every nine seconds isn't turning classes into dodgemachines. All this suggestion will do is hurt the classes that dont have easy access to vigor or endurance regen and allow them to be bullied even more by the classes who do.

Your suggested change will skew the meta even more than it already is toward the classes that are already doing too much. Keep closely in mind that the classes that have easy access to vigor or endurance regen in this meta -also- can CC lock you or punish you for being in range of them. Leave that alone.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Look at pve maps, even more empty.

> If that happens in pve...still empty.

Thats because everyones in groups doing boss trains. The non meta event maps are always quiet and the meta ones are always full for me.

Overall I'd say PVE is much healthier than PVP. you just notice more people in PVP because everyone's grouped together on tiny islands while they wait for matches.

Also, for whoever needs it, I would like to remind that this is a thing.

> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

Firebrands and Weavers are strong, yes, but:

> In particular we’re looking at:

> * Condi Thief

> * Holosmith

> * Condi Mirage

> * Rampage

> * Warrior’s Cunning

> * Revisiting Staff Thief

These are going to be the things that are hit first. If there's anything in particular about these facets that need additional suggestions, please note them. We can talk about Firebrand and Weaver, Herald, stealth mechanics, burn guard or whatever hasn't been hit another time. Make sure these things above aren't running to egregious levels of overperformance when that balance drops.

Also keep in mind there will be a fall damage change coming as well, and necro has been affected significantly by it. If you main necro you may want to voice your opinion on that in Profressions, but keep in mind necros are a different beast in WvW and scale really strong because of zerg deaths.

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> **Necromancer**

> * Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

> * Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

Again, not sure who needs to hear this, but this balance patch is not going to fix everything at once. Focus on the above facets and think about how those facet changes will affect your gameplay on your classes of choice. If you perform well on a certain class vs most things noted above without using anything on that list, and yet the issues above are part of your matchup so frequently that you feel your class needs a buff to compete, consider that the balance patch may be passively buffing you. If your class has been hit and you feel it is too much of a hit, consider how being on the receiving end of whatever is being nerfed feels combat wise before suggesting what you feel it should be adjusted to.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> The entire point of stealth currently is to hide yourself from the other player, fishing for stealth attacks that have no counterplay (and no, pure luck in finding and revealing the invisible enemy or ~~hacks to see see through stealth~~ do not count as counterplay).

You cannot argue soundly while discounting the argument that would challenge yours as not counting. Those things count (at least the fair ones.)

There are quite a few avenues on classes to gain access to revealed. Some of those classes also put a cc on the revealed individual on skill hit, or reveal the individual while they are cced.

In addition to that, stealthed characters do not cease to exist while they are stealthed, which makes marking the ground or laying AOEs or traps at your feet good to dissuade them. You can also often judge when stealthed characters will attack you based on how their HP looked when they stealthed or what weapons they are carrying, and block preemptively to stall them.

As long as you cannot be immediately oneshot from stealth or have a visual indication that the burst is coming at least a half-second before it hits you, it's workable.

Tl'dr play a stealth character, think like them, have object permanence.

Don't spam skills. there are no long confusion durations or high confusion stack bursts in the game unless you let a mirage stack on you with axe. Use your blocks or cleanses, your heal, or evade instead. Confusion on its own only punishes people not looking at their bar, which is ideally what it should be doing.

I'd actually like to see **more** confusion play if it was less paired with torment or not paired with torment at all, since getting stacked with confusion AND torment doesn't make sense to me in the way of counterplay, but yeah. Confusion on its own isnt a problem.

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> ps : About CI, It existed for years, was used during 4 months and was removed....

Just noting that the balance of a trait is not static if it was balanced at one point. Traits can become stronger or weaker if the class that leverages them becomes stronger,weaker, or more or less adept, and a trait being relatively complaint free at its inception does not guarantee that a new balancing patch will not make it a problem.

You can play if you want, but I would avoid playing specifically ranked.

Play unranked with a full group of your friends, or if you are good play AT with a full group of your friends. If the current imbalance that is exacerbated by incoherent teams doesn't jade you, the toxicity that has by and large stemmed and coagulated from years upon years of that will, and the only people still invested in ranked at this point in time are people that are unable, for some reason or another, to stop.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" about axe vs mind stab.

> its becouse warrior has better toughtness, perma 25might, bonu power on might, many damage bonuses like peak performance, tether.

> meanwhile power mes doesnt get more then 5-10 might, and sup complex along with vulnerability as only bonuses, its not powers being better, its might + % dmg traits working together to make such derastic changes.

I'm just messing with you, I get what you meant. I don't have a problem with power mes.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> throws gs 3 at warrior, critical hit! 908 damage.

> warrior throws axe, critical hit! 5670 damage.

> Internal sceam!

*mutters something just out of earshot about mind stab having a higher base damage than throw axe when enemy is > 50% hp.*

> @"Fleckzeck.4673" said:

> All changes want to lower the clone-production or the damage the clones do, to lower the preasure from "Infinit Horizon".

Okay but-

> My suggestions is the following:

> - Give "Infinit Horizon" an ICD of 20 sec in PvP+WvW only

That's too much. We want it balanced, not dead. Clones are fragile and easily dispatched, and gating their burst windows every 20 seconds, forcing them to ramp clones before they even get access to damage is a no-go. IH is a problem but let's not smiters boon it.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> The main problems with Infinite Horizon are:

> 2. Condition Damage Shatter traits were nerfed to the point of pushing mirage players into Deceptive Evasion Playstyles.

>3. **Clones spawned by Infinite Horizon spawn automatically doing their ambush attacks.**

> 4. **Staff clone ambushes did not have the 50% reduced damage output you see on the scepter and axe clone ambushes.**

If 3 and 4 are true, those need to be addressed. I don't know about 2, because at no point does lack of diversity of playstyle justify an overpowered one. Their condi output is still high with the now surfaced playstyle, so that needs to be addressed in its entirety before additional condition damage is returned.

> 1. The other Grand Masters are not worth taking.

This is of note. I am fine with EM exhaustion being shaved if the IH problem gets fixed, if pushing the ability to evade _at all_ while stunned to EM with far less exhaustion to make IH the bursty, but more volatile option is out of the question.

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> Scroll back and read. Stop individually calling out for details when relevant information is already there.

Also of note. If someone provides the proof you need and your response is to "go back and look again, then spoon feed me the information again" you're not engaging, you're distracting.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> 1. Exactly what you just said. Some things are REALLY strong when played by more experienced players, but are too complex for less experienced players to use viably at all. Which brings in the idea of Skill Floor and Skill Ceiling. Which in turn creates the argument of: "Should balance be based on top tier performance or the bell curve majority performance?" I've seen people argue about this to no end, vouching for one side or the other. But the truth is.. it should be based on both. This would incorporate much mechanical overhaul, and not necessarily changes to attribute tied statistics at all.

> 2. Then you have things that take the idea of "Rock/Paper/Scissor" way too far. Look at Deadeye as example. It's seriously completely useless against certain builds, but then is way too strong against others. So it is "hit or miss" both literally and figuratively. You're either dominating on it while in a good match vs. many things you counter, or you're getting countered so hard you can't breath. This serves only to create a split in its identity concerning "Is it too strong?" You can't really narrowly label it with a single Yes or No, because it is in fact way too strong vs. certain things, but is just useless against others. What makes classes like this mostly busted, is that they are very abusable for class swapping. **lower tiered players who play that Deadeye for 10 matches in a row, who never log off it, aren't the ones who are making it look OP. The ones who make it look OP, and the strong players who only log on the Deadeye, when they are swapping to it, to counter an enemy team comp that is setup to be prone to the Deadeye. **All of which in turn creates these weird differing opinions within various player feedback about the Deadeye. We're hearing from some players who say: "It sucks. it's useless." While other players are saying: "It's way too strong." Then they begin to argue with each other as to prove which opinion is correct. But the truth is... both opinions are correct. So what is Arenanet supposed to do?

I just want to chime in on this point in particular. I would like to note that things can be hard to pick up, but as long as playing them at their highest level of play allowed by the game does not make them effectively immortal (no class is entitled to -mechanical- effective immortality as long as their player is good), that is fine. underused specs and builds create their own pockets of viability merely on inexperience with fighting them, As long as you can see things coming and have adequate room to respond to or interrupt key skills, Things can be easier or harder to pick up, with user skill. which brings me to this:

> 1. **Flatten out mechanics of every class concerning Skill Floor/Skill Ceiling.** Every class should be relatively equal in Skill Floor/Skill Ceiling. This would IMMEDIATELY make the game much easier to balance, when we're talking about flip flopping attribute tied statistics. But it's got to begin and end with the sheer difficulty of how easy or difficult it is to run a class/build. Worrying about balancing attribute tied statistics needs to come after that.

I'm not absolutely sure you -need- to do this, given above. Or rather, perhaps I have a different consideration of what skill floor and skill ceiling entails. I think its fine for classes to be easier or harder to play. However, I think every class, in its core, should be designed in such a way that it allows players to even fight against what they are disadvantaged against, without it being a complete and utter shutdown or domination due largely to mechanical difference. Player skill, and its presence or lack thereof, ideally, should be the major determining factors for wipe matchups. If that is what you are talking about, even though you mentioned how hard or easy it is to run a class, then I agree. I am of the mindset that a good way of doing this, in addition to making it so that classes with disadvantages against certain playstyles have a couple tools (but not an overabundance) to counter or manage those playstyles, is to clear up class damage delivery and telegraphs so they are more pronounced.

> 3. **Seriously, remove at least half of the pixel spam that is in the game, or at least greatly individualize the graphic displays of different animations.** What do I mean by this? Ok, a Spellbreaker feels good to play against because you can see what the #$%^ he's doing.

Which is why I agree with this 100%. Making moves that do things like grant invulnerability, stability, hard CC or large damage have standard, visible effects would probably go a large way toward helping the game balance. Especially since there are a handful of players that exploit visibility (Read: choose asura classes for their small stature alone) to hide their animations vs people that don't use standard opponent models.

Hell, It may be incredibly beneficial to just color code some of the critical boons like Stab, Quickness and the like in something -other- than yellow, and make them bigger on the UI bar for your opponents health.

All in all, thoughtful post.

> @"misterman.1530" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"misterman.1530" said:

> > > I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

> >

> > Please don't suggest better tradeoffs for the necros self ailments by saying you'd consider an unblockable, unremovable 5 second fear to be fair for the competitive modes.

> > That's insane.

> > Necros need better bang for the self ailments, yes. Especially the ones that come with traited consume conditions. But 5 seconds of fear that you cant block or remove isn't reasonable.

> >

> >

>

> So..explain how one should be able to block or avoid fear in the first place? If the Necro sacrifices health, to the point it could be near death, then they should have something in return. An unblockable fear or an uninterruptible, non-corruptive (sic) block. Something.

We can definitely figure something out for that but not __5 seconds of you absolutely being unable to control your character in a team oriented match.__ We need more counterplay avenues for things that are performing, not less in the opposite direction.

> @"Darknicrofia.2604" said:

> So are these coming next week, the week after that or...?

Theyll probably drop with the new Living world episode. so the 19th.

> @"misterman.1530" said:

> I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

Please don't suggest better tradeoffs for the necros self ailments by saying you'd consider an unblockable, unremovable 5 second fear to be fair for the competitive modes.

That's insane.

Necros need better bang for the self ailments, yes. Especially the ones that come with traited consume conditions. But 5 seconds of fear that you cant block or remove isn't reasonable.

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > **Rampage**

> > Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

> >

> > * Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows

> > + Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only

> > + Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only

> > + Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

>

> Nice. Notice a problem just like 100 years too late and then make decent fixes to the skill that should have been done when the problems initially started. Now we have the fix coming but another question is: what the frick is taking so long with it?!?!?! C'mon Anet Step up your game and start actually acting!

Maybe don't be toxic when they make positive changes.

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> Also why is it cheating, when every other class still has more mobility?

Because you're supposed to sit there and let me take potshots at you while I teleport/blink/run/leap all over the map at my leisure, and anything that even challenges my power role is __wrong__

because HP bar, you have two of them and the second one fills up by people dying, which clearly is fair in spvp where at most four people can die at any time.

Also we're going to focus you in team matches so you can never build lf but yeah.

__wrong__

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> CSC use to put in work in spvp back in the day....Pretty happy we got a guy who played the game at a high level at some point to turn things around and make meaningful changes.

>

>

>

>

Thats hot.

> @"Loboling.5293" said:

> This build shows everything wrong with Ranked. Even while losing every single 1v1, and contributing almost nothing to the game, the OP managed to get an easy win.

And I bet the losing team blamed the Deadeye for the loss.

@"Kaburro.4712"

Your move pool, as dragonhunter, hard counters thieves. Also, since rifle is now blockable, you really have no excuse to be letting that deadeye do that to you. He cant touch the point if your kit involves light use of traps, and you have forward block on utility. If you manage your utilities, you can stand on that point and waste the Deadeye's time indefinitely, alternating between blocking on the point and using the fences for cds.

But yeah whatever, nerf thieves/deadeye more I guess.

And dont waste your dodges /utilities before you even get to the point. and if your home point is taken, stand on it while you engage...

*rubs temples*

> @"Loboling.5293" said:

> I'm not a super big fan of DE stealth mechanics being tied to dodges, and only when holding a rifle. Maybe put an ICD on the ability of about 2 seconds, so double dodge will get you punished.

This is fine but lets balance the other overperforming stuff first instead of constantly nerfing thieves because theyre kind of annoying.

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Hey folks,

> * Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

I understand that the lifeforce gain is a buff, but please keep in mind that these changes you're making to necros do not carry over well to the sPVP sphere, where less people die per instance and lf is not constantly topped off. It seems like these balance changes over the last few iterations geared toward necro presume that it constantly has a large HP pool to work with.

The fact that there is no way to reduce their recharge on spectral skills after a particular balancing instance, and the shaving of passive and active health and life force gain to power oriented reapers in particular makes necro play painful in smaller groups, especially groups where thieves are free to harass them if they are unaccompanied.

I don't want to presume, but all these balancing directions for necro are making it weaker and weaker in spvp. The only thing holding them in very baseline viability now is Rune of Speed as far as sPvP is concerned. Please pay careful attention to how necros perform in a less volatile environment and make sure they can spec to survive on their own should they be attacked 1v1 or in a small group, where they will invariably be focused.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > Hi again,

> > > Updates to the previous list:

> > > * Sigil of Agility: Reduced quickness duration from 2 seconds to 1 second

> > > * Photon Wall: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only

> > > * Heat Therapy: Reduced heal per stack from 65 to 49 (-25%) in PvP only

> > >

> > > We still have a bit more time to iterate, but at this point we’re primarily looking for feedback on the holo changes.

> > >

> >

> > I think just nerfing SIgil of Agility's quickness duration is a mistake as it'll still allow players to cheese out certain animations faster than opposing players can react. It deserved the full removal.

> >

> > For additional Holosmith nerfs I think I'd like to see:

> > * Forge Auto Attack: Range reduced from 240 units to 170 units, higher than melee and at the same range as Reaper's Shroud. 240 has always been kind of nuts.

> > * Holo Leap: Cooldown increased to 5 seconds. Reduce the range of the attack to 170 units.

> > * Heat Therapy: Reduced healing per stack by 50% instead of 25%. I think it can use a bigger hit.

> > * Vent Exhaust: Reduced heat loss per dodge from 15% down to 5%.

> > * Prismatic Converter: Change it from Condition Conversion to just Cleanse.

> > * Crystal Configuration: Nerf the stacks to just 1 stack per attack regardless of targets hit. Getting Potentially 10 stacks of stability on a 6 second cooldown if you're in a team fight is just too much.

> > * **Prime Light Beam**: Add self-revealed onto the start of the cast so it can't be used from stealth.

> > * Toss Elixir S: Base duration reduced from 5 seconds down to 2 seconds.

> > * Healing Turret: Reduce the immediate healing and the healing of the overcharge by 25%.

> > * **Purity of Purpose** : Reduce the duration of certain converted boons. 14 seconds of Vigor, for example, on cleansing a bleed is _nuts_.

> > * Anti-Corrosion Plating: Add a 5 second internal cooldown.

> > * **Lock On** : Right now it's 2 traits in one. Please remove one of them, preferably Invisible Analysis and leave Controlled Analysis.

> > * **Overcharged Shot** : Add a precast animation similar to Warrior Longbow's Pin Down or Ranger's Point Blank Shot. Right now in melee range it's effectively instant cast and has no opportunity to predict it and with the stability from traited Corona Burst and Elixir U there's usually no negative counter balance to it applying to the engineer.

> >

> > Overall this this will make Holosmith much more bearable, both the Tools Rifle variant and Protection Holo. They'll still have high damage and CC, but you'll have made Photon Forge have a significantly higher skill cap required to play by reducing the range and limiting how easy it is for Holosmith to completely reset the fight by trimming the resustain and the excessive stealth duration. Also trimming some of the unfairness like the excessively low cooldown on Holo Leap and the unfairness of Overcharged Shot. It'll still be great, it'll still be able to rush down opponents. But doing so has a higher skill level required and it's less forgiving if you screw up.

> >

> > The nerfs to Kinetic Battery and Elixir U are actually kind of not great? Like if you nerf Elixir U too much you'll just push them onto another stunbreak Utility that's almost as good like Thumper Turret or Spectrum Shield. And if you hit Kinetic Battery you'll push them onto Gadgeteer and Adrenal Implant and they'll be almost as good and still the best build for ranked. The nerfs I'm suggesting are ones they aren't going to easily escape from by taking a different utility or trait.

>

> This honestly seems like a more thought out holo tune down imo

+1 for this, especially what is bolded above.

I'm fine with the prismatic change if purity of purpose gets adjusted as noted.

I wouldn't hit heat therapy and healing turret at the same time though. I'm not 100% on board with the nerf to healing turret because of its implications on core. Still thinking about that.

What is bolded however, absolutely.

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Yeah me too I respect the guys who play nude with only a weapon set so I can kill it easily. <3

If Axe is bad -damage wise- we can buff it. My point was that I respect players that can balance risky aggressive play and have success with it instead of what condi scepter/staff is right now.

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> Uhhh, yes it does work.

> Blocked ppl wont show up in any type of chat for you.

This. Use the block feature.

> @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:

> The lose of a match isin't a big deal you know (it's a game after all....for me at least) but trying to know why ppl are so upset and mad, making a time we're here to enjoy the game as salty as possible......that make my day worst.

Stop trying to understand people whose aim is to not understand you. Some people aren't here to enjoy themselves, some people are here because they have nothing better to do.

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> Confession: I never stopped playing axe, even after it was heavily nerfed and made clunkier (not only did they severely nerf damage, they made it so you have to turn and face your target for the ambush to activate). Still playing axe today, mostly because I find the active, though riskier playstyle 100x more fun than passive staff play which I find extremely boring. Fun > rating for me.

Just bumping this in agreement. I respect active mirage mains that can use Axe fearlessly, doubly so if they're power oriented.

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Please look at the double proc reveal from Lock On. **Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc.** It currently gives 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds and is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

*Agrees in thief*

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > They ignored a lot of builds. Honestly they should have fixed skill bugs and unintended skill behavior's than when the big game wide balance pass is decided on implement them all at once.these new devs **are making the same mistakes the old** devs made of nerfing a few while leaving many un changed due to not having made a decision on what or how to change them leaving these nerfed builds to fend against unchanged ones making the balance pass pointless

>

> **Learning**

> 

>

I really like the aura of "slightly-unhinged news website comment poster" that you bring to these forums. It's very authentic.

Never change, Burnfall.

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> I think a better change to Rampage would be to remove the stability granted whilst using it so there is some counterplay,

Nah.

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> IT still has like 50% damage reduction, some hard cc, stability and passive healing is affective

Yah.

Rampage gives you 10 seconds of hard cc and immunity to hard cc/resistance against soft cc. It still has significant utility if you NEED to occupy a particular area or keep pressure on an opponent, and both of those situations happen very often in PVP.

The damage was just icing on the cake.

> @"Darknicrofia.2604" said:

> Rampage can still hit hard, it just won't be able to hit hard while hard cc'ing at the same time.

This. The balance suggested is for its cc moves. Your auto will still hit like a truck.