felix.2386 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 @"felix.2386" mind if I ask what class and build you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said: > @"felix.2386" mind if I ask what class and build you play? why you ask, i play basically every single meta build except tempest and also power rev/core d/p all in plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"felix.2386" said: > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"felix.2386" said: > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game also i have no problem with one build counter another build. but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > > > > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game > also i have no problem with one build counter another build. > but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. Works as intended if the meta is annoying, it deserves to have annoying counters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > > > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > > > > > > > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game > > also i have no problem with one build counter another build. > > but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. > Works as intended if the meta is annoying, it deserves to have annoying counters. > wth are you talking about, it counters 0 meta and plat- builds are way more annoying then actual meta builds now, meta now actually take some skill after months of nerfing. warrior isnt meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > > > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > > > > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > > > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > > > > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > > > > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game > > > also i have no problem with one build counter another build. > > > but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. > > Works as intended if the meta is annoying, it deserves to have annoying counters. > > > > wth are you talking about, it counters 0 meta and plat- builds are way more annoying then actual meta builds now, meta now actually take some skill after months of nerfing. warrior isnt meta. Then why are you complaining about a dumb meme build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > > > > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > > > > > > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > > > > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > > > > > > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > > > > > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game > > > > also i have no problem with one build counter another build. > > > > but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. > > > Works as intended if the meta is annoying, it deserves to have annoying counters. > > > > > > > wth are you talking about, it counters 0 meta and plat- builds are way more annoying then actual meta builds now, meta now actually take some skill after months of nerfing. warrior isnt meta. > Then why are you complaining about a dumb meme build? > because it is toxic gameplay that is being abused in low level and actually beat better player with skillful builds with only auto attack which isnt healthy for the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > > you guys probably never played the build against warrior, this build as a "meme" destroy the best warrior build. > > > > > > > and will forever be as long as it has perma stab application in quick secession, which is toxic AF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also auto attack damage should do less damage, it does 5k with every AA cast that's also 425 range > > > > > > > 2 1/2 seems like a huge cast time, but it really isnt when it is 425 range and has multiple hit, that mean blocking one or 2 hits won't mitigate the damage and the moment you are in 425 range (which is huge) you will start taking damage constantly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tho prime problem for me still is the perma stab. > > > > > > Sometimes memes are stronger than some meta builds, but are still memes cause they don't do good against the rest of the team. For example rangers are pretty good target for the brrrr since scrapper has allot of projectile hate, and on other hand all necros have to be avoided cause they get free fear when they look at flamethrower scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flamethrower is abused in low level for a reason and that reason is the toxic gameplay style it provides and it is not healthy for the game > > > > > also i have no problem with one build counter another build. > > > > > but not in this way, not in a way that gold 2 player can beat plat 2 player by holding auto attack. > > > > Works as intended if the meta is annoying, it deserves to have annoying counters. > > > > > > > > > > wth are you talking about, it counters 0 meta and plat- builds are way more annoying then actual meta builds now, meta now actually take some skill after months of nerfing. warrior isnt meta. > > Then why are you complaining about a dumb meme build? > > > > because it is toxic gameplay that is being abused in low level and actually beat better player with skillful builds with only auto attack which isnt healthy for the game Says who the high level gameplay is spamming circles on point on cd why not have basic attack build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > > > That build is super annoying, and should not exist as it's not healthy for the game. When everyone and their mother were crying about FB's stab application, and then access to stab was shaved across all classes, flamethrower somehow got under the radar. Now we have a skill that literally gives engi perma stab. I wouldn't have my hopes up too much though given the random "balance" changes that we have seen from anet in the past. > > > > > > Why are people acting like this is something new? > > > > > > The juggernaut trait existed from the very beginning of this game and it **always** provided perma stability, even back then in the time when stability didn't have stacks and could withstand endless CC for it's duration. > > > > > > It always had this feature and honestly should stay, it is an iconic trait for flamethrower. Just because we see some more people run around with it because flamethrower damage didn't get nerfed and therefore is better in comparison, meaning that camping flamethrower is not as bad as it used to be anymore, we shouldn't gut the identity of juggernaut. > > > > I know it existed since forever. The point is it was NOT toned down ---- unlike the rest of stab traits / skills in game. > > Why should it? Because it is finally seeing any kind of play, even if not really viable at high tier pvp? > That trait was underperforming for almost it's entire existence, yet we should nerf it just because other stab traits/skills got nerfed? > > This kind of balancing leads to absurd stuff like all hard CC skills getting all their damage taken away, leading to some skills which are now insanely bad since they already had other downsides like long casting times and being highly telegraphed. This is exactly why I don't post much into balance discussions anymore nowadays. There are actually people in this thread, seriously complaining about "Flamethrower Engineer" right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreths.8457 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 When you see that build, you understand how much anet are bad at making pvp, i never saw something so stupid in every other mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > That build is super annoying, and should not exist as it's not healthy for the game. When everyone and their mother were crying about FB's stab application, and then access to stab was shaved across all classes, flamethrower somehow got under the radar. Now we have a skill that literally gives engi perma stab. I wouldn't have my hopes up too much though given the random "balance" changes that we have seen from anet in the past. > > Why are people acting like this is something new? > > The juggernaut trait existed from the very beginning of this game and it **always** provided perma stability, even back then in the time when stability didn't have stacks and could withstand endless CC for it's duration. > > It always had this feature and honestly should stay, it is an iconic trait for flamethrower. Just because we see some more people run around with it because flamethrower damage didn't get nerfed and therefore is better in comparison, meaning that camping flamethrower is not as bad as it used to be anymore, we shouldn't gut the identity of juggernaut. This is an awful argument, they just revamped the entire game and removed TONS of stab access, boon access, boon duration, mobility, damage, etc. This trat was ignored because it wasn't an issue, but now, after such huge sweeping changes to the game, it's an issue. This trait and build isn't overpowered, it's just downright unfun(or impossible) to fight for a lot of builds while the engineer just presses 1 over and over...really interactive gameplay. > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > I mean if you have seen the teatime with CMC when him, Angeels and Teapot are talking about lightning rod he goes into how even though lightning rod is breaks the paradigm the whole point of the trait is to do damage on CC and the choice is actively made to slot it against something else hence why its fine. > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Imagine letting the game have no hard counter, pls remove everything that hard counters something that we have infinite fights OH boi that's so boring, pls let it stay, people complain that there is no build diversity but want every build get nerfed to Nirwana, pls stop nerfing unnecessary things only because they can do 1 thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. > > Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. > > I think he would have a point if it was inconstant between classes, if lets say Terror on necromancer didn't do damage on fear but tempest did on any cc. So if the toys of other classes are taken away no one gets special treatment, which brings me to explosive entrance damage, why the fuck does this shit still have PVE scaling while everyone else got shanked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. > > > > Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. > > > > > I think he would have a point if it was inconstant between classes, if lets say Terror on necromancer didn't do damage on fear but tempest did on any cc. So if the toys of other classes are taken away no one gets special treatment, which brings me to explosive entrance damage, why the kitten does this kitten still have PVE scaling while everyone else got shanked. > Just my personal guess, but I think it is because explosive entrance is telegraphed. You see the enemy engineer dodge, then you know their next attack applies explosive entrance. Which means you can prepare countermeasures like blocks, dodges, etc. And if you actually do deny the explosive entrance in that way, then you deny the engineer some big effects. You don't just deny them damage on you, but also the barrier application from the master and the blind from the grandmaster trait. Look at other damage procs in traits. * Daredevil's impacting disruption: damage on interrupt. Thief has several instant CCs, if they really want then they will get an interrupt off. As long as you can't cover all skills you use with stability, you can't prevent this damage, hence why it is reduced. * Necromancer's chill of death: casting lesser spinal shivers when hitting enemies below 50% health. It doesn't apply just on the next hit and isn't consumed if this one misses, as long as you will hit anything against a foe below 50% health, you get the damage. * Elementalist's lightning rod: dealing damage when disabling foes. Just like thief, elementalist has instant CC spells to ensure that this trait will trigger. See what I mean? Avoiding explosive entrance works because you can deny the next hit and that consumes the charge, denying all the other associated effects as well. Other damage dealing traits don't work like this, they don't have charges which can get consumed, they are mostly always active if a requirement is met, avoiding them becomes hard to impossible at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > > > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. > > > > > > Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. > > > > > > > > I think he would have a point if it was inconstant between classes, if lets say Terror on necromancer didn't do damage on fear but tempest did on any cc. So if the toys of other classes are taken away no one gets special treatment, which brings me to explosive entrance damage, why the kitten does this kitten still have PVE scaling while everyone else got shanked. > > > > Just my personal guess, but I think it is because explosive entrance is telegraphed. > You see the enemy engineer dodge, then you know their next attack applies explosive entrance. Which means you can prepare countermeasures like blocks, dodges, etc. > > And if you actually do deny the explosive entrance in that way, then you deny the engineer some big effects. You don't just deny them damage on you, but also the barrier application from the master and the blind from the grandmaster trait. > > Look at other damage procs in traits. > * Daredevil's impacting disruption: damage on interrupt. Thief has several instant CCs, if they really want then they will get an interrupt off. As long as you can't cover all skills you use with stability, you can't prevent this damage, hence why it is reduced. > * Necromancer's chill of death: casting lesser spinal shivers when hitting enemies below 50% health. It doesn't apply just on the next hit and isn't consumed if this one misses, as long as you will hit anything against a foe below 50% health, you get the damage. > * Elementalist's lightning rod: dealing damage when disabling foes. Just like thief, elementalist has instant CC spells to ensure that this trait will trigger. > > See what I mean? Avoiding explosive entrance works because you can deny the next hit and that consumes the charge, denying all the other associated effects as well. > Other damage dealing traits don't work like this, they don't have charges which can get consumed, they are mostly always active if a requirement is met, avoiding them becomes hard to impossible at that point. > Nah its not well telegraphed trait, its passive damage, that boosts all attacks, you should not dodge passives. Dodge everything is not a valid way of playing. If you insist that this design is not a problem then reckless dodge should get the pve scaling too and one of the minors should give 1/4 s daze just for the lolz. Also you argument about grandmasters falls apart since bound https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound is a grandmaster trait that changes the playstyle and yet it got normalized. Everyone gets the same toys or no one gets them. The way it should have worked is throw some grenades in front of you on dodge, do pitiful damage like all other dodge traits, and get to stack some of your passive minor that gives % damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > > > > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. > > > > > > > > Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. > > > > > > > > > > > I think he would have a point if it was inconstant between classes, if lets say Terror on necromancer didn't do damage on fear but tempest did on any cc. So if the toys of other classes are taken away no one gets special treatment, which brings me to explosive entrance damage, why the kitten does this kitten still have PVE scaling while everyone else got shanked. > > > > > > > Just my personal guess, but I think it is because explosive entrance is telegraphed. > > You see the enemy engineer dodge, then you know their next attack applies explosive entrance. Which means you can prepare countermeasures like blocks, dodges, etc. > > > > And if you actually do deny the explosive entrance in that way, then you deny the engineer some big effects. You don't just deny them damage on you, but also the barrier application from the master and the blind from the grandmaster trait. > > > > Look at other damage procs in traits. > > * Daredevil's impacting disruption: damage on interrupt. Thief has several instant CCs, if they really want then they will get an interrupt off. As long as you can't cover all skills you use with stability, you can't prevent this damage, hence why it is reduced. > > * Necromancer's chill of death: casting lesser spinal shivers when hitting enemies below 50% health. It doesn't apply just on the next hit and isn't consumed if this one misses, as long as you will hit anything against a foe below 50% health, you get the damage. > > * Elementalist's lightning rod: dealing damage when disabling foes. Just like thief, elementalist has instant CC spells to ensure that this trait will trigger. > > > > See what I mean? Avoiding explosive entrance works because you can deny the next hit and that consumes the charge, denying all the other associated effects as well. > > Other damage dealing traits don't work like this, they don't have charges which can get consumed, they are mostly always active if a requirement is met, avoiding them becomes hard to impossible at that point. > > > Nah its not well telegraphed trait, its passive damage, that boosts all attacks, you should not dodge passives. Dodge everything is not a valid way of playing. If you insist that this design is not a problem then reckless dodge should get the pve scaling too and one of the minors should give 1/4 s daze just for the lolz. > Also you argument about grandmasters falls apart since bound https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound is a grandmaster trait that changes the playstyle and yet it got normalized. Everyone gets the same toys or no one gets them. > The way it should have worked is throw some grenades in front of you on dodge, do pitiful damage like all other dodge traits, and get to stack some of your passive minor that gives % damage. You mention reckless dodge and were talking about being consistent before, but if you look at reckless dodge then you would see that it **doesn't work like explosive entrance**. Explosive entrance applies a buff **after** dodging that applies the effects on the **next** attack. Which means that the engineer has to perform a dodge roll, then another attack afterwards. Reckless dodge makes **the dodge itself** an attack. All dodge traits working like this (including another engineer one: thermal release valve from holosmith) got the reduced damage, since making the dodge itself an attack gives less time to react than having to perform another attack after a completed dodge. Your argument has been that traits should be consistent? Explosive entrance **is** consistent, since it is literally the only trait in the game working like this, so it is consistent by default. All the traits **which actually work like reckless dodge** are also consistent by being given the reduced damage treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > > > > > I think they're flat out wrong, lightning rod is horrible for the game and shouldn't exist. > > > > > > > > > > Well I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion. I generally agree with the viewpoint it's fine so will have to agree to disagree on this with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he would have a point if it was inconstant between classes, if lets say Terror on necromancer didn't do damage on fear but tempest did on any cc. So if the toys of other classes are taken away no one gets special treatment, which brings me to explosive entrance damage, why the kitten does this kitten still have PVE scaling while everyone else got shanked. > > > > > > > > > > Just my personal guess, but I think it is because explosive entrance is telegraphed. > > > You see the enemy engineer dodge, then you know their next attack applies explosive entrance. Which means you can prepare countermeasures like blocks, dodges, etc. > > > > > > And if you actually do deny the explosive entrance in that way, then you deny the engineer some big effects. You don't just deny them damage on you, but also the barrier application from the master and the blind from the grandmaster trait. > > > > > > Look at other damage procs in traits. > > > * Daredevil's impacting disruption: damage on interrupt. Thief has several instant CCs, if they really want then they will get an interrupt off. As long as you can't cover all skills you use with stability, you can't prevent this damage, hence why it is reduced. > > > * Necromancer's chill of death: casting lesser spinal shivers when hitting enemies below 50% health. It doesn't apply just on the next hit and isn't consumed if this one misses, as long as you will hit anything against a foe below 50% health, you get the damage. > > > * Elementalist's lightning rod: dealing damage when disabling foes. Just like thief, elementalist has instant CC spells to ensure that this trait will trigger. > > > > > > See what I mean? Avoiding explosive entrance works because you can deny the next hit and that consumes the charge, denying all the other associated effects as well. > > > Other damage dealing traits don't work like this, they don't have charges which can get consumed, they are mostly always active if a requirement is met, avoiding them becomes hard to impossible at that point. > > > > > Nah its not well telegraphed trait, its passive damage, that boosts all attacks, you should not dodge passives. Dodge everything is not a valid way of playing. If you insist that this design is not a problem then reckless dodge should get the pve scaling too and one of the minors should give 1/4 s daze just for the lolz. > > Also you argument about grandmasters falls apart since bound https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound is a grandmaster trait that changes the playstyle and yet it got normalized. Everyone gets the same toys or no one gets them. > > The way it should have worked is throw some grenades in front of you on dodge, do pitiful damage like all other dodge traits, and get to stack some of your passive minor that gives % damage. > > You mention reckless dodge and were talking about being consistent before, but if you look at reckless dodge then you would see that it **doesn't work like explosive entrance**. > > Explosive entrance applies a buff **after** dodging that applies the effects on the **next** attack. Which means that the engineer has to perform a dodge roll, then another attack afterwards. > > Reckless dodge makes **the dodge itself** an attack. All dodge traits working like this (including another engineer one: thermal release valve from holosmith) got the reduced damage, since making the dodge itself an attack gives less time to react than having to perform another attack after a completed dodge. > > Your argument has been that traits should be consistent? Explosive entrance **is** consistent, since it is literally the only trait in the game working like this, so it is consistent by default. All the traits **which actually work like reckless dodge** are also consistent by being given the reduced damage treatment. That is the point one and done, explosive entrance is combo between passive damage boosting trait and a dodge trait, both of which got nerfed. Is it a dodge trait or a passive trait, cause passive damage traits do not crit, dodge traits crit but do not have good scaling, you can't have the cake and eat it too. But am all game for passives those 300 second onese getting on low cds,everyone playing on passives, all good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasss.1208 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 How come that every single topic that is about Engineer in any way, ends up with a small group of people arguing about Explosive Entrance? There are already topics to discuss that. I bet I could start a topic here asking for grenade bugs to be fixed, and that topic would go into the same arguing, before it gets moved to the engi sub. For the original topic: the only build that can use Flamethrower is the FT Scrapper build. It effortlessly kills anything that doesn't have burst, and dies to any kind of burst. Both power and condi. I didn't have a chance to duel against a bunker or support with this build, so I'm not sure if it has the damage pressure to kill those. Any other specs using flamethrower to spam AA would only kill themselves against reta, which gets somewhat negated on Scrapper with Impact Savant. And for the EE crowd: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 > @"wasss.1208" said: > And for the EE crowd: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon Are you saying that engi should lose 1 dodge if they take the explosive trait line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Who cares about stability? This build can only do damage and has no noteworthy defense. Pop an invuln. and destroy it in 3 seconds. Or outrange it. Flamethrower has 300 to 600 range. That's basically melee. Besides that: juggernaut is a grandmaster trait. And it does nothing else than give stability, while one specific kit is equipped (the tiny might application is not worth mentioning). That's hardly imbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Its only a problem if it catches you with your pants down though imo... but thats just me. If i actually have time to see it coming its usually something i can handle personally but if i get caught off guard by it then i usually get toasted before i can adjust lol... I dont see the problem. Its also not easy to consistantly aim and hit things with the flamethrower auto unless they are standing still ive actually tried using that build and its not that great. Any engi main who can constantly hit you with flamethrower damage while you might be zipping around like a mad lad is actually pretty good imo. Bad players wont be able to aim it very well and get good dps output. This is just my 2 cents i dont think it needs nerfs tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antioche.7034 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Most of people replying against the suggestion are complete headblocks being like "But the build is super bad overall and it's L2P issue", when the OP literally acknowledges that. The build doesn't make you learn to play, and it is dumb by design. The entire reason PvP is fun is because you need to dodge dangerous skills/counter them with CC or blocks or invuls or whatever, basically you need to be skilled to perform well. There's none of that with FT, it's just boring kiting or high damage that are needed. Buff the freaking build if you want, that'll make diversity, but make it not being completly dumb/a meme like it is atm. People have so much given up on having actual fun balancing by Anet that they don't even give a crap about these kind of stupid designs, kinda sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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