Stealth op

[Jeran.6850]

> @"Tuna Bandit.3786" said:

> I am SO done with "Stealth is OP in WvW!"

> It is NOT

> Want OP??

> Go to metabattle and see the Ranger PERMASTUN build that puts your STUNBREAKERS ON COOLDOWN

> Untill THAT is resolved, SHUT UP ABOUT OUR ONLY VIABLE DEFENSE AGAINST THAT TOXIC BUILD!!!

>

> Stealth is OP topics are getting old.

> Leave Thief alone.

 

 

Sorry, but thief abilities, especially its steath abilities, have been a problem since game release. What do you mean "leave thief alone"? Why should anyone stop asking for changes, just because you (and like-minded people) think its fine?

 

And that ranger build. Well, im sure it doesnt "perma-stun" only thiefs. I guess it is even less of a problem for thiefs, because the skills applying "it" are in need for a visible target mostly, and the ones that are not: sorry, keep some distance then, every other class would better have to, as well.

 

Really, this is funny. A thief crying that there is a build that makes him wish he would have more stunbreakes, and THATS a problem.

Stealth? No, no problem (says the thief).

 

[diomache.9246]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> On the other hand you don't have cleaves or aoe spam in wow. Your channeled or charged abilities lso don't hit or follow people in stealth.

 

Most classes have a spamable AoE spell. (or maybe had and they cut it with the coming expac)

You basically don't need to cleave, wenn you just put AoE all around the place.

 

[lare.5129]

> @"wevh.2903" said:

> I cant see my oponent

and this is normal way. Someone should lose.

In gw2 we have difficult invis stack. In some game you need press once button and be invisible always. So for more we need more buff invisible classes to give some challenge for others. People like challenge.

[allshallperish.4620]

me no see enemy help kek

[archmagus.7249]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > >

> > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > >

> >

> > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

>

> You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

 

When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

[Junkpile.7439]

Played full glass scepter/dagger core ele today 5 min until i did meet first thief and back to mesmer. No idea how people play this game without stealth. :#

[kash.9213]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > >

> > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > >

> > >

> > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> >

> > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

>

> When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

 

I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

[archmagus.7249]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> > >

> > > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

> >

> > When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

>

> I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

 

They can run any build they want. You just need to use the "v" key on your keyboard. If they evade the damage, they keep their stealth. See the red circles? Avoid them.

[kash.9213]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> > > >

> > > > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

> > >

> > > When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

> >

> > I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

>

> They can run any build they want. You just need to use the "v" key on your keyboard. If they evade the damage, they keep their stealth. See the red circles? Avoid them.

 

No I get it, you need a handicap and are willing to shut down a whole class instead of coming up with a reasonable solution, or even just listening to realistic solutions posted here countless times by others. I'm still not sure if you're serious or not, that's a far out take.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> > > > >

> > > > > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

> > > >

> > > > When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

> > >

> > > I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

> >

> > They can run any build they want. You just need to use the "v" key on your keyboard. If they evade the damage, they keep their stealth. See the red circles? Avoid them.

>

> No I get it, you need a handicap and are willing to shut down a whole class instead of coming up with a reasonable solution, or even just listening to realistic solutions posted here countless times by others. I'm still not sure if you're serious or not, that's a far out take.

and wh

Kash; you know better...throughout the 8 years, all players alike have given Anet countless of constructive suggestions including Thief Profession players concerning their Toxic Design Mechanic.

 

You can't blame them or feel the need for Thief Profession players to ridicule us any longer.

 

--in other word; the community including myself is beyond exhausted...nothing more to say. We want Thief Profession to to be severely dealt with, Punished to their core root for their Toxic influence to the community and most importantly, to the health of the game once after all-

 


 

[kash.9213]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

> > > > >

> > > > > When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

> > > >

> > > > I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

> > >

> > > They can run any build they want. You just need to use the "v" key on your keyboard. If they evade the damage, they keep their stealth. See the red circles? Avoid them.

> >

> > No I get it, you need a handicap and are willing to shut down a whole class instead of coming up with a reasonable solution, or even just listening to realistic solutions posted here countless times by others. I'm still not sure if you're serious or not, that's a far out take.

> and wh

> Kash; you know better...throughout the 8 years, all players alike have given Anet countless of constructive suggestions including Thief Profession players concerning their Toxic Design Mechanic.

>

> You can't blame them or feel the need for Thief Profession players to ridicule us any longer.

>

> --in other word; the community including myself is beyond exhausted...nothing more to say. We want Thief Profession to to be severely dealt with, Punished to their core root for their Toxic influence to the community and most importantly, to the health of the game once after all-

>

> 

>

 

Are you purposefully cringy and vague to avoid having a point? If you're not going to contribute anything you can at least not bloat threads with images and outdated videos with builds that don't exist anymore. You're backing up a post by someone who wants to make changes that would push people into just the kind of build that made you emotionally quit the game.

[Mokk.2397]

Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > > > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. **If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks**, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't think you're following me. I'm saying that if you as a dev want to break stealth by taking any kind of damage, then let "Stealth Attacks" remain active for the duration. You're telling me that we need to basically get rid of Backstab, Death's Judgment, Tactical Strike, Sneak Attack, and the rest ... except for when we build to land a fully packed opener which will of course be full glass since we're going to try to avoid any kind of damage and will have one shot at it. You're asking to funnel more thieves into the kind of build people complain about instead of just capping Stealth Attack window or trying to deal with how people reset fights.

> > > >

> > > > They can run any build they want. You just need to use the "v" key on your keyboard. If they evade the damage, they keep their stealth. See the red circles? Avoid them.

> > >

> > > No I get it, you need a handicap and are willing to shut down a whole class instead of coming up with a reasonable solution, or even just listening to realistic solutions posted here countless times by others. I'm still not sure if you're serious or not, that's a far out take.

> > and wh

> > Kash; you know better...throughout the 8 years, all players alike have given Anet countless of constructive suggestions including Thief Profession players concerning their Toxic Design Mechanic.

> >

> > You can't blame them or feel the need for Thief Profession players to ridicule us any longer.

> >

> > --in other word; the community including myself is beyond exhausted...nothing more to say. We want Thief Profession to to be severely dealt with, Punished to their core root for their Toxic influence to the community and most importantly, to the health of the game once after all-

> >

> > 

> >

>

> Are you purposefully cringy and vague to avoid having a point? If you're not going to contribute anything you can at least not bloat threads with images and **outdated videos** with builds that don't exist anymore. You're backing up a post by someone who wants to make changes that would push people into just the kind of build that made you emotionally quit the game.

 

**Sep 20, 2020**

 

-7k-10k+ damages with +1 shot continues after the recent 'damage nerf patch'

 

Stabitha is a great Thief Profession player and does not sugar-coat what Thief Profession is capable of

 

-here another video where Stabitha absolutely had no problem exposing Condition Thief Profession-

 

--This Is Not Only About Thief Profession--

 

What continues to push people away is Anet allowing Toxic Bad Design Mechanics to ruin their experiences and their continual refusal to prevent them from ressurfing again

 

 

**How do you encourage players to continue play the game while intentionally allowing their past concerns to resurface and repeat itself over and over again? How is that even ok??**

 

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > Things which should remove stealth.

> > > > > *taking damage while stealthed. Doesn't apply to fall damage unless you are already in combat.

> > > >

> > > > Would Stealth Attack still be open to use for the full duration even after detection?

> > > >

> > >

> > > No. Once you have lost stealth, you will lose stealth attack.

> >

> > You want to shut down a major part of an entire class, not just a build or two, with no thought of what kind of build everyone would end up with to avoid any kind of damage. That's brilliant.

>

> When no-downstate week came, nobody was upset about scrapper basically getting their class mechanic removed from the game. This is about abusing people abusing stealth. If they were allowed to stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth attacks, it would defeat the purpose of removing stealth. Besides, they're not revealed, they could just go back into stealth once they can get away from the damage.

 

As far as I am aware, gyros still worked, hammer was still used, are you saying people took scrappers ONLY to use function gyro ?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

 

Issue with stealth is the rendering in enemy cliente, ive playeed in laggy moments the the person atacking me we were talking as well, we came to realise that the time that ones come out of stealth m 8 not be the same time that enemy client will rander the atacker out of stealth.

 

For the same reason, mass zerg quickness and alacrity out of a stealth bomb will bork up (mostly botlenek enemy client data) and most players will have diferent experience, ive been insituaion its ok, and other that first comes the damage to the health bar then aoe rings then the enemy apears like stealth is ending.

 

i actualy swaped to a lower clock cpu with more cores and game has more issues when a zerg uses mass stealth and quikness than the older cpu with a higher clock with lesser cores.

 

IMO for my experience issue with stealth feel more techical issue rather than being a balance problem, and under circunstances it can be a tol to the client to figure out what hapening.

[kash.9213]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

>

> Issue with stealth is the rendering in enemy cliente, ive playeed in laggy moments the the person atacking me we were talking as well, we came to realise that the time that ones come out of stealth m 8 not be the same time that enemy client will rander the atacker out of stealth.

>

> For the same reason, mass zerg quickness and alacrity out of a stealth bomb will bork up (mostly botlenek enemy client data) and most players will have diferent experience, ive been insituaion its ok, and other that first comes the damage to the health bar then aoe rings then the enemy apears like stealth is ending.

>

> i actualy swaped to a lower clock cpu with more cores and game has more issues when a zerg uses mass stealth and quikness than the older cpu with a higher clock with lesser cores.

>

> IMO for my experience issue with stealth feel more techical issue rather than being a balance problem, and under circunstances it can be a tol to the client to figure out what hapening.

 

That rendering is a problem. I think having some visual and sound effect on Stealth from enemy proximity would be fair, getting stronger or weaker and then capping Stealth Attack at something reasonable but that probably wouldn't even be needed at that point. I'm likely alone in that and it would probably have issues anyway but I think stealth should be more for masking travel and movement and for well prepared hits, and then maybe strengthen Stealth Attacks a little or give them some residual strength for what the cost would be.

[Sonork.2916]

***Easy Solution***

 

Let stealth remain as is, remove revealed. Give all classes a few abilities that grant themselves a buff, a new boon, lets call it True Sight. True Sight allows those who have it to simply see stealthed players. Then thieves can continue their playstyle, still use all their abilities while stealthed, but have to be careful now that people can see them sometimes while they're stealthed.

 

For zerg stealth just add a new 'super stealth' that only exists when a person besides the caster blasts a their stealth field. Super stealth will not be seen by True Sight.

 

Thus stealth is still viable for defense but there is something people can do to counter it without removing it from the class using it, if only for a time. And zerg stealth won't be countered by it at all.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

 

DE's are usually running solo facing multiple foes that love to gank solo's who run in groups of a minimum of 5+ with fbs sustaining them,and one of them dies,they rush to the forum to complain about how OP De's are .

 

Most of the complainers have never taken the time to either,run the spec themselves to see the weakness or dueled vs them to learn how to counter them. Also not knowing how to use 2 of the ingame traps vs stealth also makes it quite hilarious. Even when im on De myself and face another De i love to cheese it with a reveal throw :) EzpZ,but lets pretend these mechanics are not ingame,right.

[Mokk.2397]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

>

> Issue with stealth is the rendering in enemy cliente, ive playeed in laggy moments the the person atacking me we were talking as well, we came to realise that the time that ones come out of stealth m 8 not be the same time that enemy client will rander the atacker out of stealth.

>

> For the same reason, mass zerg quickness and alacrity out of a stealth bomb will bork up (mostly botlenek enemy client data) and most players will have diferent experience, ive been insituaion its ok, and other that first comes the damage to the health bar then aoe rings then the enemy apears like stealth is ending.

>

> i actualy swaped to a lower clock cpu with more cores and game has more issues when a zerg uses mass stealth and quikness than the older cpu with a higher clock with lesser cores.

>

> IMO for my experience issue with stealth feel more techical issue rather than being a balance problem, and under circunstances it can be a tol to the client to figure out what hapening.

 

That could be an issue in some instances but not the issue I was explaining. You would never need to drop a ram to take care of a warrior or a ballista to deal with a Ranger so why should anyone have to drop a target painter to deal with a Dead Eye . Stealth when revealed is a messed up mechanic and needs t be removed . There is absolutely no justification to keep Shadow Meld in its current state .

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > I cannot think of another MMO that allows a player to attack and vanish a few seconds later. The GW2 stealth mechanics are the dumbest of any MMO I have ever played. I am a fan of ambush play but ambush, ambush, ambush is absurd.

>

> If you give me a super hard hitting ability that required more setup to ambush I'd be fine with that, it's mostly fair as it is but if You need it sure, but not something that will be laughed off unless you build full glass and not something easily dodged. I'll also need a few more ports or blinks and non stealth Backstab, Death's Judgment, etc. I'd prefer our Stealth Attack window be shortened which would close even in a long duration stealth stack.

 

Unfortunately, that's basically what mirage was on release, and we all know how much people loved that. Some people just don't like ambush classes, and it doesn't really matter what you say to them or how much the classes get nerfs.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > I cannot think of another MMO that allows a player to attack and vanish a few seconds later. The GW2 stealth mechanics are the dumbest of any MMO I have ever played. I am a fan of ambush play but ambush, ambush, ambush is absurd.

> >

> > If you give me a super hard hitting ability that required more setup to ambush I'd be fine with that, it's mostly fair as it is but if You need it sure, but not something that will be laughed off unless you build full glass and not something easily dodged. I'll also need a few more ports or blinks and non stealth Backstab, Death's Judgment, etc. I'd prefer our Stealth Attack window be shortened which would close even in a long duration stealth stack.

>

> Unfortunately, that's basically what mirage was on release, and we all know how much people loved that. Some people just don't like ambush classes, and it doesn't really matter what you say to them or how much the classes get nerfs.

 

The biggest mistake Anet did was giving other Professions access to stealth. Stealth could've been a unique diversity mechanic restricted only to Thief Profession, Period!!

 

Than the whole focus would've shift directly with resolving Thief Profession Stealth mechanic only.

 

This is why i blame Guild Wars 2 design for destroying Profession diversity, roles and their identity. Treating every Professions the same and giving them access to what defines them is the root cause of Guild Wars 2 Toxicity thus resulting in a endless Toxic clash war amongst each Profession

 

note-

 

-Stop Treating Elementalist Profession As A Guardian Profession

-Stop Treating Mesmer Profession As A Rogue-Thief Profession

-Stop Treating Warrior Profession As A Guardian Profession

-Stop Treating Revenant As A Guardian Profession

-Stop Treating Ranger Profession As A Rogue-Thief Profession

-Stop Treating Thief Profession As A Ranger Profession

Stop Treating Necromancer As Every Professions Problems

 

etc...

 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

 

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > > I cannot think of another MMO that allows a player to attack and vanish a few seconds later. The GW2 stealth mechanics are the dumbest of any MMO I have ever played. I am a fan of ambush play but ambush, ambush, ambush is absurd.

> > >

> > > If you give me a super hard hitting ability that required more setup to ambush I'd be fine with that, it's mostly fair as it is but if You need it sure, but not something that will be laughed off unless you build full glass and not something easily dodged. I'll also need a few more ports or blinks and non stealth Backstab, Death's Judgment, etc. I'd prefer our Stealth Attack window be shortened which would close even in a long duration stealth stack.

> >

> > Unfortunately, that's basically what mirage was on release, and we all know how much people loved that. Some people just don't like ambush classes, and it doesn't really matter what you say to them or how much the classes get nerfs.

>

> The biggest mistake Anet did was giving other Professions access to stealth. Stealth could've been a unique diversity mechanic restricted only to Thief Profession, Period!!

>

> Than the whole focus would've shift directly with resolving Thief Profession Stealth mechanic only.

 

I don't 100% agree with the conclusions you draw from this in the comments below, but the above comment is probably the first thing you've said on which we could have some common ground. Other classes don't really need stealth (with the possible exception of mesmer), whereas thief is explicitly designed around it, and limiting/eliminating stealth access on other classes would make the topic of fixing stealth a lot less muddy. That said, see my comment below.

 

> This is why i blame Guild Wars 2 design for destroying Profession diversity, roles and their identity. Treating every Professions the same and giving them access to what defines them is the root cause of Guild Wars 2 Toxicity thus resulting in a endless Toxic clash war amongst each Profession

>

> note-

>

> -Stop Treating Elementalist Profession As A Guardian Profession

> -Stop Treating Mesmer Profession As A Rogue-Thief Profession

> -Stop Treating Warrior Profession As A Guardian Profession

> -Stop Treating Revenant As A Guardian Profession

> -Stop Treating Ranger Profession As A Rogue-Thief Profession

> -Stop Treating Thief Profession As A Ranger Profession

>

> etc...

>

 

The problem you're going to run into then is what exactly are ANet supposed to do for elite specs? There are only so many effects and playstlyes in the game after all. There are only two ways that they can go with a new spec; either they blur lines between class roles by introducing mechanics that were formerly associated with another class, or they hard nerf something and sell it back to you in a slightly different package (see feline grace from acro and daredevil). The latter really gets people's backs up, so they are only really left with the former option.

 

If they then didn't do elite specs and kept the classes as vanilla, most of the 7-8 year players like me would have gotten bored and left by now as nothing new comes in besides story. I know it's tempting for some to say that WvW and PvP was best in vanilla, but would you really still be playing it after all this time if we were still in the melee train/focus party/hambow meta? So yeah, It's a catch 22; They can't introduce new things without breaking others and making yet more redundant.

 

Note that I am not excusing balance decisions that were just plain bad, I am sure that we can all think of a few examples of those. My point is that it really isn't as simple as "nerf x" and "stop making y play like z".

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> Stealth was not a problem until the introduction of Shadow Meld . There must not be any counter to a counter And No skill should require the special purchase of tricks and traps to counter . Shadow Meld is the ONLY skill in the game that that falls into this category .

>

 

As a nearly 8 year thief main, I'm pretty sure that

1) complaints about stealth existed waaaaaay before shadow meld (I was hiding in keeps to res a mesmer friend back in vanilla, now I just don't need the mesmer)

2) counters to counters have literally always existed, and are not limited to shadow meld. CC kills me, so I take stability. Enemy rips boons on CC, CC kills me. The ability to counter things that the other guy does is a core part of PvP in any game, otherwise you're no more competitive than a skelk.

[aleron.1438]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > > Stealth Is not OP. But Shadow Meld is . It is the ONLY skill that is a counter to a counter and the ONlY skill that requires the need to purchase a trick or trap to counter . This is what makes it OP . Remove the stealth when revealed from Shadow Meld and stealth is no longer a major issue. Thieves have plenty of stealth , speed and evades and DO NOT need a counter to reveal .

> >

> > Issue with stealth is the rendering in enemy cliente, ive playeed in laggy moments the the person atacking me we were talking as well, we came to realise that the time that ones come out of stealth m 8 not be the same time that enemy client will rander the atacker out of stealth.

> >

> > For the same reason, mass zerg quickness and alacrity out of a stealth bomb will bork up (mostly botlenek enemy client data) and most players will have diferent experience, ive been insituaion its ok, and other that first comes the damage to the health bar then aoe rings then the enemy apears like stealth is ending.

> >

> > i actualy swaped to a lower clock cpu with more cores and game has more issues when a zerg uses mass stealth and quikness than the older cpu with a higher clock with lesser cores.

> >

> > IMO for my experience issue with stealth feel more techical issue rather than being a balance problem, and under circunstances it can be a tol to the client to figure out what hapening.

>

> That could be an issue in some instances but not the issue I was explaining. You would never need to drop a ram to take care of a warrior or a ballista to deal with a Ranger so why should anyone have to drop a target painter to deal with a Dead Eye . Stealth when revealed is a messed up mechanic and needs t be removed . There is absolutely no justification to keep Shadow Meld in its current state .

 

You just proved how unfair reveal was...

 

You don't need or are required to use the traps. We're just advising to those that struggle to take on stealth users that ArenaNet has provided the crutches to completely tip the balance into your favour.

 

You can bet your kitten that if target painters were patched to also deny class mechanics for every professions for the same duration that everyone will raise hell and whine like trumpkittens how hard life is for them now.

 

Guess what thieves had to adapt and move on. Most didn't and quit maining thieves. Of those remaining most avoid getting caught fighting around sentries and watchtowers. Only very very few thieves in EU servers have adapted and learned the flow to still try to fight under mark.

 

Shadow meld has a cast time you can interrupt. Most of the reveals are instant cast uninterruptible. So I wouldn't even be able to counterplay knowing I'm about to get revealed. So what's gonna end up happening against someone that knows how to use reveal smartly to deny me being untargetable for a following burst is that I will have to use 2-3 dodges and burn a stun break/evade utility to survive long enough to be able to cast shadow meld and then reassess the situation.

 

Listen to what Caedmon said and been seeing all these years. There's tried and true wisdom in his posts. As a rifle only DE main, you've no idea how ridiculously easy it is for me to fight other thieves when I decide to use painters too. Many DE don't even use shadow meld and prefer daggerstorm/basi (some poor sods even use T guild for God knows why). Their only chance is to be smart and let go of their ego/pride and egress OOC to wait it out.

 

Your grudge against Shadow Meld is so unwarranted it's not even funny anymore. Sadly it only has 2 charges in pve as well where it's just used as a DPS enabler and DPS boost. It ought to have 3ammo there but w/e. I would be more than ok if it had only 1 ammo in a 1v1 situation. It's would only be fair. But wvw is not a 1v1 map.

Have you ever considered that even with just 2 normal smart roamers you could chain back to back reveals and mark traps. No amount of shadow meld charges would save a DE trying to survive an active engagement.

 

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> I cannot think of another MMO that allows a player to attack and vanish a few seconds later. The GW2 stealth mechanics are the dumbest of any MMO I have ever played. I am a fan of ambush play but ambush, ambush, ambush is absurd.

 

Agreed. The design of stealth in this game is the worst I've ever seen in any game.