Fun times, but condi

[WillPaharu.4837]

I do not think condition runes and sigils should exist in PvP. All a player does is use one skill, and then, if their target has already used their condi clense, they can just wait for the damage to kill said opponent.

[Dadnir.5038]

In short you prefer taking all the damages in one go instead of taking them over time with some extra time to react to them. Just tell yourself that if you had eaten the skill of a power build you would have been down instantly instead of X seconds later. Is it really more fun to think that all it took the power build to kill you is that one skill because you already used your block/evade/invuln and now that it's done it's done?

 

There is plenty of way to deal with condi, if anything condi is more forgiving than power. If your build struggle against condi then it just mean that condi are the "scizor" to your "paper" build that work well against "rock".

[Ragnar.4257]

I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

 

Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

 

Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

 

Also, exactly what sigils are you talking about? The only one that applies damaging conditions is Sigil of Doom. If this is killing you........ you've got bigger problems.

[vorpal.1497]

The condi vs power system is one of the few actually clever designs in the game (ignoring class specific broken mechanics like current holos). The power vs condi dynamic makes it almost impossible to achieve a build without a weakness. If you try to mitigate power via toughness amulets, you (since the amulet overhauls) expose yourself to condi (since you a) give up vitality b) condi ignores toughness). And vice versa, with the exception of Celestial I guess but even hybrid power/condi builds benefit more with specialized amulets.

 

edit: to clarify it's clever I think because it prevents a good player from dominating, because an average player who counters the good player's amulet, can usually win. Great tryhard players exploiting [current month]'s OP build though, is another story, related to too-complex-to-fully-playtest-inhouse profession trees.

[Tayga.3192]

Tell me the difference between these two scenarios

 

1) Renegade porting in, using shortbow 3 + impossible odds (dealing x damage in total) then running away. That happens in like 1-2 seconds.

2) Condi mirage porting in, using axe 2 + jaunt + f2 (takes like 1-2 seconds) and running away. Dealing x damage with conditions.

 

I think they are both pretty similar things. Both builds stayed in for 1-2 seconds, dealt x damage.

Power build did that damage in 1-2 seconds while condi build did that in 2-3-4 seconds. Both left the fight after 1-2 seconds.

[FrownyClown.8402]

My only issues with conditions is some skills have very little animation. or hard to see animation in the cluster fuck that is pvp. Tired of being in a mid fight with burn guard and getting a random 6 burn stacks from 900 meters away. That and power+condition damage builds on thief are probably more effective than straight power damage.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> In short you prefer taking all the damages in one go instead of taking them over time with some extra time to react to them. Just tell yourself that if you had eaten the skill of a power build you would have been down instantly instead of X seconds later. Is it really more fun to think that all it took the power build to kill you is that one skill because you already used your block/evade/invuln and now that it's done it's done?

>

> There is plenty of way to deal with condi, if anything condi is more forgiving than power. If your build struggle against condi then it just mean that condi are the "scizor" to your "paper" build that work well against "rock".

 

So, I guess it's lethal damage delivered via clearly defined packages that (ideally) put the attacker at some sort of risk or demands some sort of investment vs some guy using rapid/instant-cast abilities in order to frontload most of the damage onto what is effectively just a stream of autoattack spam (which will still kill you in 4 seconds if you didn't bring enough "super skillful buttons" to remove all of the DoTs). I guess dodge just wasn't enough then. You wanted to suffocate everyone's skill bar and trait selections with "CLEANSE CONDITION" instead of cool stuff like or "move really fast to target area" or "bait that guy over there because you're a clever dude"?

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

>

> Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

>

> Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

Conditions do more damage as they ignore armor and protection. Of course they have to do more damage as they would be underpowered if they didn't since they can be cleansed.

 

On top of that after the application you leave your target with the task to cleanse the conditions while you can either reposition or continue the pressure. That is a huge tactical advantage! And finally when you play a condi build you do either play hybrid damage (with all the condi advantages), while you are as squishy as a power build or you play a tanky condi only build (which is not really possible in pvp as they removed all the tanky condi amulets, but in wvw it's still a thing) that allows more misplay.

 

Seriously if you don't notice the dynamic difference between a power vs. power fight and a condi vs. power fight, then I don't know whether we play the same game.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

> >

> > Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

> >

> > Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

> >

> > Also, exactly what sigils are you talking about? The only one that applies damaging conditions is Sigil of Doom. If this is killing you........ you've got bigger problems.

> Conditions do more damage as they ignore armor and protection. Of course they have to do more damage as they would be underpowered if they didn't as they can be cleansed.

>

> On top of that after the application you leave your target with the task to cleanse the conditions while you can either reposition or continue the pressure. That is a huge advantage!

 

Explain how that is BETTER than doing all of the damage up front?

 

Explain how it is better to give the target an opportunity to cleanse your damage, than to do all of your damage instantly with no opportunity to "cleanse" it?

 

If you have choice of doing 5k damage INSTANTLY, or 5k damage over 10 seconds, with possibility that it will be reduced to 2k by cleanse, why do you think the 2nd option is better?

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

> > >

> > > Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

> > >

> > > Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

> > >

> > > Also, exactly what sigils are you talking about? The only one that applies damaging conditions is Sigil of Doom. If this is killing you........ you've got bigger problems.

> > Conditions do more damage as they ignore armor and protection. Of course they have to do more damage as they would be underpowered if they didn't as they can be cleansed.

> >

> > On top of that after the application you leave your target with the task to cleanse the conditions while you can either reposition or continue the pressure. That is a huge advantage!

>

> Explain how that is BETTER than doing all of the damage up front?

>

> Explain how it is better to give the target an opportunity to cleanse your damage, than to do all of your damage instantly with no opportunity to "cleanse" it?

>

> If you have choice of doing 5k damage INSTANTLY, or 5k damage over 10 seconds, with possibility that it will be reduced to 2k by cleanse, why do you think the 2nd option is better?

There is no 5k damage. The damage formula contains things like armor and protection. There are only very few condi damage reduction mechanics. 10% here and 10% there. Armor and protection do effectively reduce the incoming damage by more than 50%.

 

First

1. Build a condi build

2. Fight a target without cleanses, but with blocks and evades and some armor and protection

 

then

3. Build a power build

4. Fight a target without cleanses, but with blocks and evades and some armor and protection

 

By your logic the outcome should be the same. In reality you will faceroll the power build without cleanses with your condi build because you will be able to apply more damage than in the power build vs. power build fight. Everyone that ever roamed with both damage types in wvw knows this. It's trivial. With a condi build you hardcounter every single build without cleanses. Exception: resistance, but that is such a rare boon that it has only a minor relevance.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

> > > >

> > > > Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

> > > >

> > > > Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

> > > >

> > > > Also, exactly what sigils are you talking about? The only one that applies damaging conditions is Sigil of Doom. If this is killing you........ you've got bigger problems.

> > > Conditions do more damage as they ignore armor and protection. Of course they have to do more damage as they would be underpowered if they didn't as they can be cleansed.

> > >

> > > On top of that after the application you leave your target with the task to cleanse the conditions while you can either reposition or continue the pressure. That is a huge advantage!

> >

> > Explain how that is BETTER than doing all of the damage up front?

> >

> > Explain how it is better to give the target an opportunity to cleanse your damage, than to do all of your damage instantly with no opportunity to "cleanse" it?

> >

> > If you have choice of doing 5k damage INSTANTLY, or 5k damage over 10 seconds, with possibility that it will be reduced to 2k by cleanse, why do you think the 2nd option is better?

> There is no 5k damage. The damage formula contains things like armor and protection. There are only very few condi damage reduction mechanics. 10% here and 10% there. Armor and protection do effectively reduce the incoming damage by more than 50%.

>

> First

> 1. Build a condi build

> 2. Fight a target without cleanses, but with blocks and evades and some armor and protection

>

> then

> 3. Build a power build

> 4. Fight a target without cleanses, but with blocks and evades and some armor and protection

>

> By your logic the outcome should be the same. In reality you will faceroll the power build without cleanses with your condi build because you will be able to apply more damage than in the power build vs. power build fight. Everyone that ever roamed with both damage types in wvw knows this. It's trivial. With a condi build you hardcounter every single build without cleanses. Exception: resistance, but that is such a rare boon that it has only a minor relevance.

 

Except nobody plays without cleanses.

 

Why not strawman the other way by positing fighting a build that has 0 armour, 0 protection, 0 weakness application? Oh look, in this totally unrealistic scenario that I skewed for my purposes, suddenly power is OP.

[vorpal.1497]

It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"vorpal.1497" said:

> It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

 

That's an advantage. It doesn't make condi "inherently" better. Both of them have positives and negatives.

 

And also, what do you mean with "selfish" cleanses? Group cleanse is much more readily available than other Group defense mechanics like protection. It's one of the reasons condi generally isn't meta, is that one player can cleanse an entire team.

[KeoLegend.5132]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> I don't know why players keep posting this nonsense that condi is "fire and forget" while power is "active".

>

> Both power and condi attacks have to hit the target, and apply X amount of damage. Condi attacks don't do any more damage just because they happen over time. It doesn't "continue" to do damage passively, you've already taken the damage, you've already been hit. It's just a delayed arrival.

>

> Why is a power hit doing 1k damage instantly any better than a condi attack doing 250 damage per second for 4 seconds?

>

> Also, exactly what sigils are you talking about? The only one that applies damaging conditions is Sigil of Doom. If this is killing you........ you've got bigger problems.

 

Maybe its because dying with a bullet on the head hurts less than dying out bleeding...

Like, "Oh i just got bursted. Let's ress and start over again", but when condi: "OH MY GAAWD, im bleeding, P A N I C".

Thats the only mindfull reason i have for all that condi hate

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"WillPaharu.4837" said:

> I do not think condition runes and sigils should exist in PvP. All a player does is use one skill, and then, if their target has already used their condi clense, they can just wait for the damage to kill said opponent.

 

I do not think power runes and sigils should exist in PvP. All a player does is use one skill, and then, if their target has already used their blocks and evades, they can just instantly damage to kill said opponent.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"vorpal.1497" said:

> > It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

>

> That's an advantage. It doesn't make condi "inherently" better. Both of them have positives and negatives.

>

> And also, what do you mean with "selfish" cleanses? Group cleanse is much more readily available than other Group defense mechanics like protection. It's one of the reasons condi generally isn't meta, is that one player can cleanse an entire team.

 

Condi is, in fact, inherently better solely by virtue of the fact that dodge is the universally, baked-in damage mitigation mechanic for all classes, but it doesn't cleanse or counteract active condition damage. Condition cleanses have never been universally distributed in an even manner; you're forcing players to preemptively allot skill bar slots or trait choices just to safeguard against the chance that somebody dumps a 20k DoT via skills that aren't intrinsically linked in a legible combo or bound to a committed action. At least dodge has the courtesy to not consume any parts of a skill bar or weapon slot. Dodge a big burst from a Mesmer or Revenant, and you're negating thousands of damage, but you will NEVER use dodge to mitigate the entirety of Ranger shortbow autoattack spam or Thief venom stacking; it's just going to casually clip you for at least half of your health from a few hits if you aren't constantly playing peek-a-boo with cover (and not all builds can do that).

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"vorpal.1497" said:

> > > It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

> >

> > That's an advantage. It doesn't make condi "inherently" better. Both of them have positives and negatives.

> >

> > And also, what do you mean with "selfish" cleanses? Group cleanse is much more readily available than other Group defense mechanics like protection. It's one of the reasons condi generally isn't meta, is that one player can cleanse an entire team.

>

> Condi is, in fact, inherently better solely by virtue of the fact that dodge is the universally, baked-in damage mitigation mechanic for all classes, but it doesn't cleanse or counteract active condition damage. Condition cleanses have never been universally distributed in an even manner; you're forcing players to preemptively allot skill bar slots or trait choices just to safeguard against the chance that somebody dumps a 20k DoT via skills that aren't intrinsically linked in a legible combo or bound to a committed action. At least dodge has the courtesy to not consume any parts of a skill bar or weapon slot. Dodge a big burst from a Mesmer or Revenant, and you're negating thousands of damage, but you will NEVER use dodge to mitigate the entirety of Ranger shortbow autoattack spam or Thief venom stacking; it's just going to casually clip you for at least half of your health from a few hits if you aren't constantly playing peek-a-boo with cover (and not all builds can do that).

 

So explain why condi builds are always in the minority in high tier play? It's extremely rare to see more than 1 condi build per team in P2+ games or in MAT.

 

I'll save you the bother and give the answer: because a team that leans too heavily into condi can be completely countered by 1 support spamming group cleanses, in a way that power can't be countered.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"vorpal.1497" said:

> > > > It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

> > >

> > > That's an advantage. It doesn't make condi "inherently" better. Both of them have positives and negatives.

> > >

> > > And also, what do you mean with "selfish" cleanses? Group cleanse is much more readily available than other Group defense mechanics like protection. It's one of the reasons condi generally isn't meta, is that one player can cleanse an entire team.

> >

> > Condi is, in fact, inherently better solely by virtue of the fact that dodge is the universally, baked-in damage mitigation mechanic for all classes, but it doesn't cleanse or counteract active condition damage. Condition cleanses have never been universally distributed in an even manner; you're forcing players to preemptively allot skill bar slots or trait choices just to safeguard against the chance that somebody dumps a 20k DoT via skills that aren't intrinsically linked in a legible combo or bound to a committed action. At least dodge has the courtesy to not consume any parts of a skill bar or weapon slot. Dodge a big burst from a Mesmer or Revenant, and you're negating thousands of damage, but you will NEVER use dodge to mitigate the entirety of Ranger shortbow autoattack spam or Thief venom stacking; it's just going to casually clip you for at least half of your health from a few hits if you aren't constantly playing peek-a-boo with cover (and not all builds can do that).

>

> So explain why condi builds are always in the minority in high tier play? It's extremely rare to see more than 1 condi build per team in P2+ games or in MAT.

>

> I'll save you the bother and give the answer: because a team that leans too heavily into condi can be completely countered by 1 support spamming group cleanses, in a way that power can't be countered.

 

So I guess it's gone beyond just the skill bar and trait menu, has it? You're forced to dedicate an entire player slot on a team just to suppress some random guy's autoattacks and 3 spam? That's pretty horrible, Guild Wars 2 player.

 

The point is that you're talking about hard counters, and regardless of how hard condi is countered, it's still, baseline, more effective than non-DoT, direct damage in a controlled vacuum. That's why it's so frustrating to fight them: if your team isn't geared up with "press button to heal" boy on the point (which is also effective against direct damage), you're often at an utter loss if your own build can't poke for thousands of damage while playing footsies with the line of sight. It's not fun, it's not intuitive, and it doesn't promote player agency or expression. Condition builds, far more than power builds, often boil every encounter down to pre-fight deck-building rather than direct engagements based on player confidence: if your opponent is running a condi build, whether or not you engage them at all at any point during the game is almost entirely by what you or your teammates brought to play. That's not fun; that's just being in prison for 10-12 minutes. Why should pre-game decisions impact the actual gameplay (or force a lack of it) so drastically?

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

You aren't forced to do anything against someone spamming autoattacks. Just kill it, srsly. Completely shutting down condi builds by counter building is an option, not a necessity. For the most part a few cleanses - which you want to run against power builds too - is enough to deal with most condi builds as long you know how to play against them. That includes not wasting your dodges after you got hit already.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

it would be nice if there weren't so many boons + condis so cleansing/ removing them wasn't like paper rock scissors.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"vorpal.1497" said:

> > > > It's not a strawman, he answered your question about what is the advantage of condi, and that is that it ignores damage mitigation mechanics and forces people to devote some (or all) of their skillbar to selfish cleanses.

> > >

> > > That's an advantage. It doesn't make condi "inherently" better. Both of them have positives and negatives.

> > >

> > > And also, what do you mean with "selfish" cleanses? Group cleanse is much more readily available than other Group defense mechanics like protection. It's one of the reasons condi generally isn't meta, is that one player can cleanse an entire team.

> >

> > Condi is, in fact, inherently better solely by virtue of the fact that dodge is the universally, baked-in damage mitigation mechanic for all classes, but it doesn't cleanse or counteract active condition damage. Condition cleanses have never been universally distributed in an even manner; you're forcing players to preemptively allot skill bar slots or trait choices just to safeguard against the chance that somebody dumps a 20k DoT via skills that aren't intrinsically linked in a legible combo or bound to a committed action. At least dodge has the courtesy to not consume any parts of a skill bar or weapon slot. Dodge a big burst from a Mesmer or Revenant, and you're negating thousands of damage, but you will NEVER use dodge to mitigate the entirety of Ranger shortbow autoattack spam or Thief venom stacking; it's just going to casually clip you for at least half of your health from a few hits if you aren't constantly playing peek-a-boo with cover (and not all builds can do that).

>

> So explain why condi builds are always in the minority in high tier play? It's extremely rare to see more than 1 condi build per team in P2+ games or in MAT.

>

> I'll save you the bother and give the answer: because a team that leans too heavily into condi can be completely countered by 1 support spamming group cleanses, in a way that power can't be countered.

And for the same reason condi is almost exclusively 1v1 specs in WvW no matter how much people whine about them - it becomes exponentially worse the more players are involved - and thats still with the vastly superior PvE gear compared to sPvP gear.

 

Meaning, even in a basic +1 scenario 2x power is already "better" than 2x condi. For WvW in particular once you add a pocket firebrand or scrapper on top of that... well... you know. Individual player skills and coordination matter **alot** and players are able to offset some inherent flaws of their class/build power or condi, but this is the simple truth of GW2 combat. I think high end players know this.

[Grimjack.8130]

breaking news: gold players still dont know that theres no fundamental difference between power and condi

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > In short you prefer taking all the damages in one go instead of taking them over time with some extra time to react to them. Just tell yourself that if you had eaten the skill of a power build you would have been down instantly instead of X seconds later. Is it really more fun to think that all it took the power build to kill you is that one skill because you already used your block/evade/invuln and now that it's done it's done?

> >

> > There is plenty of way to deal with condi, if anything condi is more forgiving than power. If your build struggle against condi then it just mean that condi are the "scizor" to your "paper" build that work well against "rock".

>

> So, I guess it's lethal damage delivered via clearly defined packages that (ideally) put the attacker at some sort of risk or demands some sort of investment vs some guy using rapid/instant-cast abilities in order to frontload most of the damage onto what is effectively just a stream of autoattack spam (which will still kill you in 4 seconds if you didn't bring enough "super skillful buttons" to remove all of the DoTs). I guess dodge just wasn't enough then. You wanted to suffocate everyone's skill bar and trait selections with "CLEANSE CONDITION" instead of cool stuff like or "move really fast to target area" or "bait that guy over there because you're a clever dude"?

 

I think you're looking at it in a very biased way, deciding on yourself that skills that apply conditions don't have just as many tell than skills that apply power damage and involve less risk when using them.

 

I might shatter your world with those simple words, but most of the time the skills that apply those very conditions that you hate are the same that apply those very direct damage that you favor. Which mean that the risks are the same and the result merely delayed in case of the condition build. You either prepare for the possibility to face conditions or you do not. If you want "balance" and "diversity" you need a build system giving strengths and weaknesses, not a build system that allow the player to counter everything and be countered by everything all at once.

 

Being able to simply accept that: "Yeah, I wasn't prepared for what downed me", is part of what make a "good" player. A "good" player isn't just a: "Ahah! Serve you right! I outplayed you and now I stomp you!"

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > In short you prefer taking all the damages in one go instead of taking them over time with some extra time to react to them. Just tell yourself that if you had eaten the skill of a power build you would have been down instantly instead of X seconds later. Is it really more fun to think that all it took the power build to kill you is that one skill because you already used your block/evade/invuln and now that it's done it's done?

> > >

> > > There is plenty of way to deal with condi, if anything condi is more forgiving than power. If your build struggle against condi then it just mean that condi are the "scizor" to your "paper" build that work well against "rock".

> >

> > So, I guess it's lethal damage delivered via clearly defined packages that (ideally) put the attacker at some sort of risk or demands some sort of investment vs some guy using rapid/instant-cast abilities in order to frontload most of the damage onto what is effectively just a stream of autoattack spam (which will still kill you in 4 seconds if you didn't bring enough "super skillful buttons" to remove all of the DoTs). I guess dodge just wasn't enough then. You wanted to suffocate everyone's skill bar and trait selections with "CLEANSE CONDITION" instead of cool stuff like or "move really fast to target area" or "bait that guy over there because you're a clever dude"?

>

> I think you're looking at it in a very biased way, deciding on yourself that skills that apply conditions don't have just as many tell than skills that apply power damage and involve less risk when using them.

>

> I might shatter your world with those simple words, but most of the time the skills that apply those very conditions that you hate are the same that apply those very direct damage that you favor. Which mean that the risks are the same and the result merely delayed in case of the condition build. You either prepare for the possibility to face conditions or you do not. If you want "balance" and "diversity" you need a build system giving strengths and weaknesses, not a build system that allow the player to counter everything and be countered by everything all at once.

>

> Being able to simply accept that: "Yeah, I wasn't prepared for what downed me", is part of what make a "good" player. A "good" player isn't just a: "Ahah! Serve you right! I outplayed you and now I stomp you!"

 

^This. Is landing a gale -> pyrovortex/quantum strike any different on a condi build than it is on a power build? Is swapping to air with LR weaver and scoring an instant lightning strike or tacking lightning strikes onto stuns some kind of skill shot while rotating into fire on fire/x condi weaver is not? For that matter can I just run around full glass and ignore power damage as long as I dodge big hits like some people seem to be able to think they should do running no condi cleanse? Honestly, I don't get it.

[dtox.8397]

Honestly they are kinda similiar, truly. You cant dodge the condi "tick" but u can avoid their application, just like fighting vs power. I think that the hate comes from having to deal with heavy power AND condi pressure. Rarely u can deal with both in the same build, being a non-bunker.