anduriell.6280 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just a suggestions, for the automatic detection in cases : * Player is under map * Player is inside other objects * Player is flying and has not got the griffon or skyscale skill active * Player gliding has constant updrafts * Player has a constant "faster than normal" speed * Player teleports are not reflected in use of skills * Player resources are desync with the server I suggest to log out the user and flag the account so the user CAN log back in and keep playing . If multiple of those flags happen then that account can be investigated by a game moderator. This will get rid of the bots efficiently as soon as they start hacking they will be logged off. If they log in automatically they will generate many flags in a short span. If a false positive happens worst case the player is logged out and if it keeps happening the player can report the issue in the bugs subforum or using the ingame system. And reduce the false positives to a minimum. It's impossible to 100% detect normal bots which use the game systems as any other player, but at least all those "high performance bots" and cheaters will be quickly detected and dealt with. The logging out does not need to be instant, they can be after a random delay or after any amount of flags happen if the engine needs to play sneaky and it should be easy to upgrade so the users reports can be used to improve the cheat detection. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspirine.6852 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Player inside other objects would be a problem for me. I would not like the get my account flagged for getting stuck while repearing double doors or wall in wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"aspirine.6852" said: > Player inside other objects would be a problem for me. I would not like the get my account flagged for getting stuck while repairing double doors or wall in wvw. Well you are logged out to the selection screen which in you case is what you would do anyway. For one flag every once in a while it shouldn't be a problem for you, but if you keep being logging out and you can't play you will report it in game, contacting support or in the forums and a game moderator can look into your case. You wouldn't know if you have or how many times you have been flagged anyway, that's only for internal use. I don't think you get inside objects multiple times a day, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alik.9651 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Actually, I need a clarify that do A.I. build count as bot? such as necro minions + auto GS#4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"Alik.9651" said: > Actually, I need a clarify that do A.I. build count as bot? such as necro minions + auto GS#4 Anet determines what counts and what does not count. Use the report feature in game if you are unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > Player inside other objects would be a problem for me. I would not like the get my account flagged for getting stuck while repairing double doors or wall in wvw. > > Well you are logged out to the selection screen which in you case is what you would do anyway. For one flag every once in a while it shouldn't be a problem for you, but if you keep being logging out and you can't play you will report it in game, contacting support or in the forums and a game moderator can look into your case. You wouldn't know if you have or how many times you have been flagged anyway, that's only for internal use. > > I don't think you get inside objects multiple times a day, right? Usually, when one is 'stuck', one uses a Waypoint, rather than logging out to the Character Select screen. Not sure auto-logging one out of a map one might not be able to re-enter is the best idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 They announced new security implementations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > They announced new security implementations? They did make a post about 'Game Security and Player Reporting'. See 'News and Announcements' or the first post in the Carousel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Usually, when one is 'stuck', one uses a Waypoint, rather than logging out to the Character Select screen. > Not sure auto-logging one out of a map one might not be able to re-enter is the best idea. Not in WvW in my experience, if you get stuck while in combat you can not return to out of combat state. But even then you can do queue again while playing in other maps, a nuisance but not a real problem. In PvE i feel it's even less a nuisance, you join other LFG and continue playing. In any case i think this would be the right approach, better than one day finding yourself locked out of your account not knowing what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchslein.8639 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 But how often does something like this have to happen before something happens? Is that then handled just like here in the forum where that is super buggy? I had e.g. once a phase with my thief where I have made Caudecus with friends and have constantly buggt me into walls. How often should I make this mistake before I get banned? I understand the thought behind it. But to drag bugs into punishments, I feel is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"Fuchslein.8639" said: > I had e.g. once a phase with my thief where I have made Caudecus with friends and have constantly buggt me into walls. How often should I make this mistake **before I get banned?** > @"anduriell.6280" said: > I suggest to log out the user and flag the account so the user CAN log back in and keep playing . If multiple of those flags happen then that account **can be investigated by a game moderator.** You would contact support before coming to that because you would keep being logged out. So they could investigate the bug and you would be safe. The amount of flags would be up to Anet to decide. Anet could implement an automatic account lock out for the most egregious cases anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Totally against being banned for being under map or out of the bounds of the map. You are not gonna remove the pleasures of several players (several rp Guilds i know) activity of breaking out of map for finding good RP spots and chill with beautiful landscapes accessible to no one. The "inside an object" is non compatible too, because of wvw sieges, being in a banner, using a cunsummable like a feast, using box o fun, or any object you can pass through. One of the flag should be as example how many enemies killed during a certain amount of time, what is the last time the player moved and has the player used several skills in same time as example, for AFK farm. I agree with teleports and faster than normal speeds. The flying one is a good idea, but, hey, what about magmatic canalization, jumping shrooms? Constant updrafts and dsync may work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchslein.8639 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 But these buggs exist since gw2 exists and I doubt that they can be fixed so easily in the meantime. Therefore a clear no from me. If I am punished because my game buggt and I would then have to deal with the suport I would uninstall the game immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspirine.6852 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"Fuchslein.8639" said: > But these buggs exist since gw2 exists and I doubt that they can be fixed so easily in the meantime. Therefore a clear no from me. If I am punished because my game buggt and I would then have to deal with the suport I would uninstall the game immediately. I remember zerging on red border and our entire zerg somehow got under the red border garrison. Only thing we could do was teleport back to spawn.. So this would mean by automatic banning our entire zerg should be locked out of playing because of some weird bug.. yeah I dont like automatic banning much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenDEADLY.5281 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > They announced new security implementations? No. The dev post was literally just about how they review reports and long time existing measures you can take to ensure people don't get into your account. Not sure why this post is acting like some new measures popped up out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I'm sure Anet have considered ideas like this, but as the announcement said they don't want to say exactly what they're using to detect bots because that just makes it easier for the people programming them to work around it. I remember reading a blog post about botting in GW1 which mentioned that they could identify bots by tracking the path characters took and spotting the ones which used exactly the same path each time. Not in the sense of someone with a farming routine but ones that went _exactly_ step for step along the same course every single time. But after one of their staff mentioned publicly that they could do that they started noticing bots which were semi-randomised. They'd have a few different paths and switch which one they used each time, including some designed to mimic player behaviour like 'accidentally' going the wrong way or getting stuck in a corner and having to turn around. Again it was possible to spot them because their motions were still identical each time they ran a given path, including making the same 'mistake' at the same moment every single time, but it took longer because they needed to track more repetitions to catch them using the same paths multiple times. I suspect they're trying to avoid something like that happening again by not saying what exactly their criteria are. We know they can get a huge amount of detail on player activity because they've produced infographics including things like how many times players have gotten on mounts, how long they've spent on each, which enemies kill players most and least often, what percentage of gold comes from chests and other details. I'm sure they can also track things like how quickly players move across the map, whether they're on the ground or not and if they're gliding/on a mount when they're in the air. But if they tell us that's how they're spotting bots then all the people programming them will know exactly what to avoid to make their bots harder to catch and ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > They announced new security implementations? No they did not!! the OP needs to edit the post heading. It is bait and does not reflect the announcement content or intent. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121390/an-update-on-game-security-and-player-reporting-in-guild-wars-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"Blude.6812" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > They announced new security implementations? > > No they did not!! the OP needs to edit the post heading. It is bait and does not reflect the announcement content or intent. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121390/an-update-on-game-security-and-player-reporting-in-guild-wars-2 Or I don't need to do anything. > @"Fire Attunement.9835 " said: >Every report of hacking and cheating is seen and reviewed by a member of our Guild Wars 2 Operations Team. Security is an ongoing process, especially as systems change over time, and we will be introducing further improvements to make it easier to report, identify and action cheaters over the next few months. **Because a reactive approach on its own is not enough, our development teams are also working on solutions to prevent and mitigate these hacks on the code level.** We hope to be able to share the result of these efforts as they progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I think it's the difference between actual implementation and the suggestions for that your title doesn't elude to which is causing the reaction since, based on the content of the OP, it's a little misleading. Nothing new has been implemented yet. You are suggesting something for implementation. Very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > I suggest to log out the user and flag the account so the user CAN log back in and keep playing . If multiple of those flags happen then that account can be investigated by a game moderator. > > This will get rid of the bots efficiently as soon as they start hacking they will be logged off. If they log in automatically they will generate many flags in a short span. If a false positive happens worst case the player is logged out and if it keeps happening the player can report the issue in the bugs subforum or using the ingame system. And reduce the false positives to a minimum. > @"anduriell.6280" said: > You would contact support before coming to that because you would keep being logged out. So they could investigate the bug and you would be safe. > The amount of flags would be up to Anet to decide. > Anet could implement an automatic account lock out for the most egregious cases anyway. Anet stated: Every report of hacking and cheating is seen and reviewed by a member of our Guild Wars 2 Operations Team. Your suggestions for **identifying** hackers and cheats are fine, but the suggestion to automatically kick them is terrible. This type of action punishes players/accounts who are not trying to hack or cheat. Do you think players will understand why they are being kicked from the game? What do you say to someone who has just been kicked? What do you say when they cannot rejoin the activity they were enjoying and have to restart? Does Anet really want to create a bunch of extra work by creating an environment where more players are trying to get support due to a feature like this? Like I said, the detection ideas are fine, but leave it GW2 Ops Team to manually action the accounts in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > Just a suggestions, for the automatic detection in cases : > * Player is under map This happens fairly easly in some cases when mounting/dismounting after WPing in LA, I assume mainly for people with weaker hardware. > * Player is inside other objects Also randomly happens to normal players, had that happen to me at least a few times. > * Player gliding has constant updrafts lmao, it's not hard to literally constantly fly in/between the updrafts or even by comming back to the same one. > * Player has a constant "faster than normal" speed What is considered "constant faster than normal speed"? Why does it need to be "constant"? What about lagging servers/players? > * Player teleports are not reflected in use of skills And how exactly do you go about that? > * Player resources are desync with the server Desynced due to lag? Flagged. > I suggest to log out the user and flag the account so the user CAN log back in and keep playing . If multiple of those flags happen then that account can be investigated by a game moderator. Awful ideas, not sure why you feel the need to spam the threads about things you know nothing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schimmi.6872 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Should there be a better detection of hackers and bots and more actions against them, yes. But some of your suggestions are just too much, especially the forced logout. There are too many bugs which may trigger this and loosing full maps, story instance progression etc. will just hurt too many legit players. As far as I remember, it was also allowed by anet to go out ob the bounds of a map, as long as it's not used to get easier loot (edit: that's meant for PvE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Alik.9651" said: > > Actually, I need a clarify that do A.I. build count as bot? such as necro minions + auto GS#4 > > Anet determines what counts and what does not count. Use the report feature in game if you are unsure. You mean with the same message: "Thank you for reporting this incident. We understand that their behavior can be frustrating and we appreciate your patience as these investigations take time" But then proceed to do nothing at all for 6 months. I've lost all belief that they actually do anything with the reports after activly going after cheats/bots but still seeing them in the game for months, after many reports. So as a result I will not defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > Just a suggestions, for the automatic detection in cases : > * Player is under map Being under the map or outside the map is not a violation of the ToS. In fact, it could be argued, that taking action against players for breaking out or that are attempting to break out would be Anet violating their own ToS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > * Player has a constant "faster than normal" speed Chronos have constant "faster than normal" speed. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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