Virdo.1540 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > Actually, if someone continues to attack a herald after seeing him use the Infused Light, the player deserve to stay in pleb tier. Its extremely easy to see. You can even see if the passive facet is already prepared for a heal. Blocks (like Aegis) lowers healing you get. Resistance completely remove the healing you would get from conditions. Poison even lowers the incoming healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > Actually, if someone continues to attack a herald after seeing him use the Infused Light, the player deserve to stay in pleb tier. > Its extremely easy to see. You can even see if the passive facet is already prepared for a heal. > Blocks (like Aegis) lowers healing you get. Resistance completely remove the healing you would get from conditions. Poison even lowers the incoming healing. > > There are things like traps that do damage and that you can't cancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > There are things like traps that do damage and that you can't cancel. So.... Traps have are countered by Infused Light. Glad we took a whole page of back and forth to come to this conclusion. Considering OP is coming from a DH perspective, it's no wonder they have so many grievances regarding Herald. Apparently Heralds using Infused Light against his traps is too op or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > There are things like traps that do damage and that you can't cancel. > > So.... Traps have are countered by Infused Light. > Glad we took a whole page of back and forth to come to this conclusion. > > Considering OP is coming from a DH perspective, it's no wonder they have so many grievances regarding Herald. > Apparently Heralds using Infused Light against his traps is too op or something. > Well, there are more things like this than just DH traps but sure. I personally don't have issues with infused light but i can also control my attacks due to mechanics of the class i play. I just don't think it is ok to call players "plebs" when rev gains life via IL - sometimes you can't control it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip.7463 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > There are things like traps that do damage and that you can't cancel. > > > > So.... Traps have are countered by Infused Light. > > Glad we took a whole page of back and forth to come to this conclusion. > > > > Considering OP is coming from a DH perspective, it's no wonder they have so many grievances regarding Herald. > > Apparently Heralds using Infused Light against his traps is too op or something. > > > > Well, there are more things like this than just DH traps but sure. I personally don't have issues with infused light but i can also control my attacks due to mechanics of the class i play. I just don't think it is ok to call players "plebs" when rev gains life via IL - sometimes you can't control it. The problem is... if u are p2 there is high chance to get few g2-3 players in team in ranked. You will stop attacking when rev uses IL, but your teammates wont. Easy as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > Oh boy > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > B. retaliate with a burst > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > I play revenant myself, I know all of that, though on most parts I have to disagree with you. I don't think that OP was trying to imply that jade wings is spammable, you just interpreted like that. It has no cooldowns, but I am pretty sure he knows about energy part. And ofc you can do a meme combo by spamming it twice in 1 teamfight if you can afk for a while. It won't bring much but lolz and will probably lose you a teamfight, but it is certainly doable to stun 6 seconds the whole enemy team. Should you do it ? probably not, and I didn't see OP either advocating for that. So no need to disrespect him for reminding about low cooldwons, he certainly knows about energy costs. > > And again, do I understand you correctly ? You agree with me that glint energy management is forgiving and put it in brackets. If you play condi rene for example, you don't camp anything either but gotta be more careful about energy if you are playing demon/rene especially if you wanna use staff. I didn't say people MUST camp glint, because it has low energy. However even if you do camp Glint in a teamfight you bring a lot of value to your team with facets even if your personal DPS suffers, it can be pretty good in some situations, but my point wasn't that, you are misinterpreting what I've wrote. > > And btw if you got nothing to do with your energy in Glint, you are probably playing it wrong, Facet of Chaos will be of a great help to make all your team a tank and drain your energy. Alternatively, you got staff to use. And sometimes even you want to actually camp Glint as long as possible if you want to kite 2 enemies. Then swap and get away. This example along with your examples is situational of course, but I guess it doesn't matter. So yeah, you got many uses for your excess energy in Herald stance and it is pretty kitten strong. Bring some good arguments so we can discuss really. All that post for me is very arbitrary. Don't take everyone as noobs in these forums, if we are here, we might know something about rev, maybe just maybe we are playing it too. > > I am not gonna comment about the heal skill. All has been said before, that thing certainly needs a nerf. If a warrior or can do a full heal too, it doesn't mean that the instacast full heal/invulnerability skill is not op. Comparative arguments here are not valid in my opinion. Stopped reading the moment you said Jade Winds has no CD because it does. You say you play revenant but you don't know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen.1483 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > > > Oh boy > > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > > B. retaliate with a burst > > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > > > > I play revenant myself, I know all of that, though on most parts I have to disagree with you. I don't think that OP was trying to imply that jade wings is spammable, you just interpreted like that. It has no cooldowns, but I am pretty sure he knows about energy part. And ofc you can do a meme combo by spamming it twice in 1 teamfight if you can afk for a while. It won't bring much but lolz and will probably lose you a teamfight, but it is certainly doable to stun 6 seconds the whole enemy team. Should you do it ? probably not, and I didn't see OP either advocating for that. So no need to disrespect him for reminding about low cooldwons, he certainly knows about energy costs. > > > > And again, do I understand you correctly ? You agree with me that glint energy management is forgiving and put it in brackets. If you play condi rene for example, you don't camp anything either but gotta be more careful about energy if you are playing demon/rene especially if you wanna use staff. I didn't say people MUST camp glint, because it has low energy. However even if you do camp Glint in a teamfight you bring a lot of value to your team with facets even if your personal DPS suffers, it can be pretty good in some situations, but my point wasn't that, you are misinterpreting what I've wrote. > > > > And btw if you got nothing to do with your energy in Glint, you are probably playing it wrong, Facet of Chaos will be of a great help to make all your team a tank and drain your energy. Alternatively, you got staff to use. And sometimes even you want to actually camp Glint as long as possible if you want to kite 2 enemies. Then swap and get away. This example along with your examples is situational of course, but I guess it doesn't matter. So yeah, you got many uses for your excess energy in Herald stance and it is pretty kitten strong. Bring some good arguments so we can discuss really. All that post for me is very arbitrary. Don't take everyone as noobs in these forums, if we are here, we might know something about rev, maybe just maybe we are playing it too. > > > > I am not gonna comment about the heal skill. All has been said before, that thing certainly needs a nerf. If a warrior or can do a full heal too, it doesn't mean that the instacast full heal/invulnerability skill is not op. Comparative arguments here are not valid in my opinion. > > Stopped reading the moment you said Jade Winds has no CD because it does. You say you play revenant but you don't know that? Yes you are right, 5 seconds of eternity is a big cooldown on an elite skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip.7463 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > > > > > Oh boy > > > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > > > B. retaliate with a burst > > > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > > > > > > > I play revenant myself, I know all of that, though on most parts I have to disagree with you. I don't think that OP was trying to imply that jade wings is spammable, you just interpreted like that. It has no cooldowns, but I am pretty sure he knows about energy part. And ofc you can do a meme combo by spamming it twice in 1 teamfight if you can afk for a while. It won't bring much but lolz and will probably lose you a teamfight, but it is certainly doable to stun 6 seconds the whole enemy team. Should you do it ? probably not, and I didn't see OP either advocating for that. So no need to disrespect him for reminding about low cooldwons, he certainly knows about energy costs. > > > > > > And again, do I understand you correctly ? You agree with me that glint energy management is forgiving and put it in brackets. If you play condi rene for example, you don't camp anything either but gotta be more careful about energy if you are playing demon/rene especially if you wanna use staff. I didn't say people MUST camp glint, because it has low energy. However even if you do camp Glint in a teamfight you bring a lot of value to your team with facets even if your personal DPS suffers, it can be pretty good in some situations, but my point wasn't that, you are misinterpreting what I've wrote. > > > > > > And btw if you got nothing to do with your energy in Glint, you are probably playing it wrong, Facet of Chaos will be of a great help to make all your team a tank and drain your energy. Alternatively, you got staff to use. And sometimes even you want to actually camp Glint as long as possible if you want to kite 2 enemies. Then swap and get away. This example along with your examples is situational of course, but I guess it doesn't matter. So yeah, you got many uses for your excess energy in Herald stance and it is pretty kitten strong. Bring some good arguments so we can discuss really. All that post for me is very arbitrary. Don't take everyone as noobs in these forums, if we are here, we might know something about rev, maybe just maybe we are playing it too. > > > > > > I am not gonna comment about the heal skill. All has been said before, that thing certainly needs a nerf. If a warrior or can do a full heal too, it doesn't mean that the instacast full heal/invulnerability skill is not op. Comparative arguments here are not valid in my opinion. > > > > Stopped reading the moment you said Jade Winds has no CD because it does. You say you play revenant but you don't know that? > > Yes you are right, 5 seconds of eternity is a big cooldown on an elite skill. Swapping from jalis below 10% -> 75% shiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > Actually, if someone continues to attack a herald after seeing him use the Infused Light, the player deserve to stay in pleb tier. > Its extremely easy to see. You can even see if the passive facet is already prepared for a heal. > Blocks (like Aegis) lowers healing you get. Resistance completely remove the healing you would get from conditions. Poison even lowers the incoming healing. > > Wow. Now reread my reasoning and think once more. I do not want to repeat it every time someone says "just stop attacking after his instant cast lulz". And if someone says "just fake burst, stow and let them hit you for 4 more seconds", I will lose all hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Filip.7463" said: > Swapping from jalis below 10% -> 75% shiro Yo OP, why are yu even mentioning Jalis or Charged Mists? Isn't yur main problem Herald Shiro? Where did Jalis come from? And yu never mentioned Charged Mists ever, which Glint can't even use properly in the first place. So do yu just randomly assume Heralds have Jalis, Glint AND Shiro? Or that Heralds magically have all their traits unlocked? Please show me a magical Herald build which has : - Glint's Infused Light - Using Charged Mist - Somehow has Jalis to make Charged Mist work because Glint can't make that work well Op just stop. Yur not making a great case for yur arguements period, and are just throwing random scenarios out to back yur points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > > > > > Oh boy > > > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > > > B. retaliate with a burst > > > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > > > > > > > This post is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen; let me explain why. > > > > > > Some classes can't *not* fully heal a rev during IL. Take power guard as an example. The moment i drop a symbol, it's a sure full heal for the rev. This means, I either don't use my most damaging abilities (imagine playing rev without using sword 2 and 3) or I fully heal them once every 30 seconds. > > > > > > This means i have to approach the mu one of two ways, I either try to kill them within the 30s window (where i still have to either dodge or pressure through/ out-trade Shiro heal) or slowly but surely whittle them down using autos or cancelable skills (see sword 3) to not fully heal them. > > > In addition to having way higher consistent pressure, almost twice the basehealth (11k vs 18k) and I kid you not when i say half the mobility, unless we go speed runes retreat. They also have way superior sustain through blocks and evades. > > > > > > But at least it's weak to condis, so that's nice. > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > Lost an AT against prolly a stacked team and then complain on forum. There is a reason there are no shiro/herald prev in MATs for quite a while. If I remember correctly, even Obindo is forced to play crev in the MOTA. It still requires skill to play tbh, more than many other braidead classes that are still plauging the sPVP environment -- flamethrower, pewpew cthief, any class that abuse trapper rune, and some sort of ranger/druid/ that abuse the kitten kitten immo pet. > > > > > > Imagine using a 7 month old tournament as an argument. That also banned specstacking. > > > > That 7 month old tournament is only part of the argument. I cant remember any MAT wins with a shiro/herald prev after that since today (this part is even before I bring up the MOTA). Imagine not capable of reading the whole sentence, lel. > > > > They banned specstacking, otherwise I think there will be more crevs instead of power revs, because prevs will be countered hard by condi thief~ > > > > Another note: Yasai is addressing the issue from probably a burn DH's perspective (she/he mentioned the trap elite.) Yet you argued against hiom/her from a prolly a different build. Yikes as usual mate. > > I did acknowledge that pherald is weak to condis. But you can't have a class that just beats all other roaming specs while still being about to disengage all(?) Condi specs. > > Having one DH build counter you isn't really a good argument. But the OP is about burn DH and rev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip.7463 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > Swapping from jalis below 10% -> 75% shiro > > Yo OP, why are yu even mentioning Jalis or Charged Mists? > > Isn't yur main problem Herald Shiro? > Where did Jalis come from? > And yu never mentioned Charged Mists ever, which Glint can't even use properly in the first place. > > So do yu just randomly assume Heralds have Jalis, Glint AND Shiro? > Or that Heralds magically have all their traits unlocked? > Please show me a magical Herald build which has : > - Glint's Infused Light > - Using Charged Mist > - Somehow has Jalis to make Charged Mist work because Glint can't make that work well > > Op just stop. > Yur not making a great case for yur arguements period, and are just throwing random scenarios out to back yur points. > > I said for jalis cuz my herald theme moved to herald+ren And comment 10%->75% was going to jade winds’s no cd (on rene in this case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 > @"Filip.7463" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > > > There are things like traps that do damage and that you can't cancel. > > > > > > So.... Traps have are countered by Infused Light. > > > Glad we took a whole page of back and forth to come to this conclusion. > > > > > > Considering OP is coming from a DH perspective, it's no wonder they have so many grievances regarding Herald. > > > Apparently Heralds using Infused Light against his traps is too op or something. > > > > > > > Well, there are more things like this than just DH traps but sure. I personally don't have issues with infused light but i can also control my attacks due to mechanics of the class i play. I just don't think it is ok to call players "plebs" when rev gains life via IL - sometimes you can't control it. > > The problem is... if u are p2 there is high chance to get few g2-3 players in team in ranked. You will stop attacking when rev uses IL, but your teammates wont. Easy as that. And how's that a balance problem? People should L2P when dealing with such mechanics! **IL is not a problem, it's a punishing mechanic for mindless button smashing**....the same people who keep claiming that IL is unbalanced are also the same people who claim **Full Counter** is balanced by comparison. There should be more punishing mechanics in this game no less! Enough of this zerg mode aoe spam BS and if people are so adamant in keep going with this charade then we should be ready to nerf every single punishing mechanic in this game **that your favourite class surely has** , from Guardian Mace to Thief Bandit's defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts > > > > It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive. > > That's because there are literally no other options. Mace is terrible if not running condi and hammer is meme tier bad. That leaves you with swords and staff in core/Herald and Shortbow in renegade. Shortbow has absolutely no defensive utility so of course you're going to bring staff, otherwise you're just setting yourself up to be easily pressured. On top of this, staff has been extremely neutered and does almost no damage at all anymore and has the only non traited cleanse skill on any weapon for the whole class. You want to see different weapon sets? Give us more options. "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. The times at which and manners in which anybody uses anything that somebody in GW2 might defend as "defensive utility" are SO BINARY, that it doesn't require any thinking. If anything, skills like those on rev staff and sword (among every other identical instance of "defensive utility" scattered across all other weapons on all other classes), are little more than timelapse buffers that people effortlessly slot in between their other easy-mode damage and engagement skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Now nerf burn dh not rev, at least rev takes a few brain cells lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts > > > > > > It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive. > > > > That's because there are literally no other options. Mace is terrible if not running condi and hammer is meme tier bad. That leaves you with swords and staff in core/Herald and Shortbow in renegade. Shortbow has absolutely no defensive utility so of course you're going to bring staff, otherwise you're just setting yourself up to be easily pressured. On top of this, staff has been extremely neutered and does almost no damage at all anymore and has the only non traited cleanse skill on any weapon for the whole class. You want to see different weapon sets? Give us more options. > > "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. The times at which and manners in which anybody uses anything that somebody in GW2 might defend as "defensive utility" are SO BINARY, that it doesn't require any thinking. If anything, skills like those on rev staff and sword (among every other identical instance of "defensive utility" scattered across all other weapons on all other classes), are little more than timelapse buffers that people effortlessly slot in between their other easy-mode damage and engagement skills. Are you saying that defensive tools shouldn't exist and people should just slap each other head on until they die? Even warrior skills have defensive utility like Bulls Charge evade frames, it lets you dodge an attack and punish with a CC or just used as a straight up defensive tool to escape with mobility and evade frames, a lot like SotM. If you waste your defensive tools, you die. If you mindlessly use staff 3 and 5 on rev, you die because now you're that much more vulnerable. And again, when you say effortlessly slot in between easy mode damage and engagement...rev has no other options, that's the only other viable weapon. Hammer also has a skill intended to do the same thing with Phase Smash, it's just a really bad weapon. Staff also has very little damage so when you swap to it, it's to keep you alive, not use between other offensive options. If these things didn't exist then the game would just be a dps contest. Imagine ele with no defensive utility, it'd just die to a stiff breeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. This is only true if the person utilizing their defensive cooldowns are chaining it as a reflex instead of using it appropriately. This only applies to players which have very low mastery of their build, so the only thing they know how to do is follow a practiced rotation of chaining damage skills and defensive skills back to back until they win or they lose. I've seen plenty of players play like that, and if yu back off during their little rotation chain, they look utterly hilarious flailing around and misusing their cooldowns. Now if yu are using Defensive cooldowns properly, they actually negate damage and therefore wasting the opponent's cooldown/ attack opportunity instead. That can hardly be considered artificially lengthening combat unless the player who has successfully negated the opponent's attack decides to not punish them. Long story short : Defensive cooldowns are defensive cooldowns when used properly. If spammed by an inexperienced player, they are just burning their defensive cooldowns, making themselves harder to kill, but accomplishing nothing like wasting an opponent's attack or creating an opening for themselves. Now going back to the original topic of Staff Sword/Sword builds : Power Revenant requires a good offhand to complement the hyper aggressive Sword/Sword. Staff for the longest time has filled this niche because it had a nice block, a decent damage Staff 2, a cleanse which is great because Rev is weak to Condi in general, and a Staff 5 which dealt pretty devastating Power damage and CC. With all that gone, it's now really only a defensive utility weaponset used to buy time for Sword/Sword to cooldown, or to respond to counterattacks because of how Sword/Sword overexposes them in order to deal damage. If Revenants had another mainhand Power weapon to consider, Staff would have been dropped in a heartbeat since Shield could fulfil alot of the utility previously desired on Staff, but just couldn't find a good mainhand to pair with it which isn't Sword. I have met Heralds which ran Sword Sh/Sword, but their kill potential is pretty low due to them lacking any sort of damage when swapping to Shield, while a CC from Staff 5 could still allow yu to land a Staff 2 and some autos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 For DH they just need to nerf trapper rune, class is fine. Herald and many classes that got blocks should also be unable to capture for time of the block, same as it is "Obsidian Flash" from elementalist. Herald's heal skill is fine, you can see when it it is up and pulse regen so you can manage your dps down for possible consume of same skill to get activated, it gives almost no healing. Maybe its problem is that it can heal up to full health if activated in proper time. Shiro is too oppressive, hard to punish mistakes as its utility and elite spec helps. All in all i believe zerk classes or similar stat classes will also have some negative stats like - vitality or - toughness, and tanky classes less power and less condi damage. Wish those amulets existed, being an assassin but also able to survive for ever is not the way to go. Also for condis they should keep duration, maybe even increase durations but reduce number of stacks for each classes. So it would be a real DoT damage that can be easily cleansed that deals pressure over longer time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Pro Tip vs IL. Don't rely on the VFX. Turn up your SFX. When you hear the ear bleeding siren you know to pause dps. Your brain can react to sounds faster than it can react to sight. This has been your pvp life hack of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SexyMofo.8923 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I thought cele amulet got removed from the game... people are still complaining about revs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. > > This is only true if the person utilizing their defensive cooldowns are chaining it as a reflex instead of using it appropriately. > > This only applies to players which have very low mastery of their build, so the only thing they know how to do is follow a practiced rotation of chaining damage skills and defensive skills back to back until they win or they lose. > > I've seen plenty of players play like that, and if yu back off during their little rotation chain, they look utterly hilarious flailing around and misusing their cooldowns. > > Now if yu are using Defensive cooldowns properly, they actually negate damage and therefore wasting the opponent's cooldown/ attack opportunity instead. > That can hardly be considered artificially lengthening combat unless the player who has successfully negated the opponent's attack decides to not punish them. > > Long story short : > Defensive cooldowns are defensive cooldowns when used properly. > If spammed by an inexperienced player, they are just burning their defensive cooldowns, making themselves harder to kill, but accomplishing nothing like wasting an opponent's attack or creating an opening for themselves. Using defensive utility "appropriately" is still an incredibly binary decision process. Anybody with even the most basic understand of video games (not even just Guild Wars 2) would know how to most effectively use something like the Revenant staff kit. A "practiced **rotation** of chaining damage skills and defensive skills back to back" is just a "**rotation**" and nothing more. Putting so much effort into embellishing the idea of a player accomplishing a good "rotation" as an aspect of "build mastery" in what is supposed to be a "skill-based PvP mode" is just mental gymnastics. Considering how all of a class' core, "defining" skills (i.e. the ones that people watch for or call out) are generally near-instant or instant speed (while also covered by access to things like stability, teleports and protracted evasion) means that knowing *when* to use any of them is little more than a case of reading a wiki, going through some patch notes, and then playing a few games. If a player has a basic sense for cooldowns and the ability to move their ten fingers, then they can effectively utilize every "useful" or "good" mechanic in the game without any further effort or creative development. > Now going back to the original topic of Staff Sword/Sword builds : > Power Revenant requires a good offhand to complement the hyper aggressive Sword/Sword. > > Staff for the longest time has filled this niche because it had a nice block, a decent damage Staff 2, a cleanse which is great because Rev is weak to Condi in general, and a Staff 5 which dealt pretty devastating Power damage and CC. > > With all that gone, it's now really only a defensive utility weaponset used to buy time for Sword/Sword to cooldown, or to respond to counterattacks because of how Sword/Sword overexposes them in order to deal damage. Nobody "overexposes" themselves in GW2. People put everything into a tiny burst window and then spend the rest of the game kiting or playing passive until their best burst skills recharge. If somebody dies during burst, it's because they didn't have all of their engagement and panic skills up. Considering how pressing Rev sword 4-5 and then spamming autos for a second or two is enough to kill basically anybody who can't immediately press a button mitigate damage for a protracted time period (or teleport away instantly; so player skill in this case is all based on cooldowns being up), and yet you still consider this, by what you've written, to be the Rev player "overexposing" him or herself, then WHAT are you actually asking for with a "good power weapon to replace staff?" > If Revenants had another mainhand Power weapon to consider, Staff would have been dropped in a heartbeat since Shield could fulfil alot of the utility previously desired on Staff, but just couldn't find a good mainhand to pair with it which isn't Sword. > > I have met Heralds which ran Sword Sh/Sword, but their kill potential is pretty low due to them lacking any sort of damage when swapping to Shield, while a CC from Staff 5 could still allow yu to land a Staff 2 and some autos. > With all that gone, it's now really only a defensive utility weaponset used to buy time for Sword/Sword to cooldown, or to respond to counterattacks because of how Sword/Sword overexposes them in order to deal damage. All you want is another staff except that while evading it also deals thousands of damage. That's all you really want. That's all every GW2 PvP player wants. You want to be insulated from risk and rewarded for doing literally anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 EU mAT won 500-0 by 2x renegade and 1x herald. The response of this forum: "rev is fine, plz nerf guard" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > All you want is another staff except that while evading it also deals thousands of damage. That's all you really want. That's all every GW2 PvP player wants. You want to be insulated from risk and rewarded for doing literally anything. Then are yu sure yu should be directing yur ire at Revenant? *cough Staff Daredevils cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > All you want is another staff except that while evading it also deals thousands of damage. That's all you really want. That's all every GW2 PvP player wants. You want to be insulated from risk and rewarded for doing literally anything. > > Then are yu sure yu should be directing yur ire at Revenant? > *cough Staff Daredevils cough* > I never said that such a thing was good for any class. In fact, I've said nothing but the opposite. GW2 is a silly game, and anybody who takes it seriously or defends its merits as a skill-based environment are deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > I never said that such a thing was good for any class. In fact, I've said nothing but the opposite. GW2 is a silly game, and anybody who takes it seriously or defends its merits as a skill-based environment are deluded. Skill based to some extent I feel. More of a knowledge based game. Which is one of the reason why I detest Stealth Spam D/P, because there is literally nothing to see to apply game knowledge to, so yu rely entirely on instict and feeling which is just a silly way to play a game. But back to Staff Sword/Sword : Sword/Sword does overexpose the Herald, specifically when used in conjuction with Shiro, burning a load of Energy in the process. This leaves them vulnerable to counterattack due to their now depleted resource bar, which makes even swapping to Staff useless for at least 3 seconds. Only Revenant has this issue though, due to their utilites and weapon skills all costing Energy. Herald however bypasses this with Glint. Maybe that's the issue most players have against Herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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