22k Deaths Judgement After the "fix"

[Casty.9743]

meanwhile ranger rapid fire hits for 20-30k no setup time and they can kite while doing it. DJ is lazy design tho , the whole rifle skill set is so gimicky sure they can snipe one guy, cant do much else.

[juno.1840]

I've been one-shot by DJ a few times on my weaver since PoF came out.. it always makes me laugh because I had it coming, and the work involved to setup those one-shots is not trivial.

 

I will second Casty.9734 regarding ranger LB rapid-fire... far more annoying than DJs for sure.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> > >

> > > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

>

> Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

 

You have fucking screenshots of a single hit from deaths judgement doing that much damage. You guys are in some extreme denial in this thread.

[Turk.5460]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> >

> > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> >

> >

>

> LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

 

Go into WvW with your Thief. Find an enemy, heck, if you want I can find you and /sit. Now press DJ key. Oh no! You just shadowstepped 600 units backwards instead of hitting me for 22k! Is that a stretch? Ok, fine, you are allowed to press 5 first to kneel, the second skill in the equation. Now press DJ. WHAAAAAAT, you only crit me for 6k, not 22k? But how can this beeeeeeee?

 

Lets go deeper. Now mark me, now a third skill with a cast time in the equation, then press the DJ. !!!!!!!! Only 6k crit again!? Rookienumbers.jpg

 

Deeper? Ok! Now I'm fighting you back, tryin' to get up all in your face. You decide that your best option is to stealth until you get those delicious looking malice stacks. So you use your elite, the 4th skill with a cast time in the equation. Yay, 4seconds of stealth! Surely that will be enough! No? Oh...well...I guess you should swap to D/P and stack stealth with a few more skills.

 

Do you see now that this cannot be spinned in your argument's favor?

[Chaba.5410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> > > >

> > > > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

> >

> > Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

>

> You have kitten screenshots of a single hit from deaths judgement doing that much damage. You guys are in some extreme denial in this thread.

 

Of which no one else but you is ignoring the other skills/traits which required waiting at least 12 long seconds to produce that high number. No one can get that high of a number from Death's Judgement without the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark. Only you are trying to compare waiting 12 seconds of a highly telegraphed mark to a quick multi-hit combo burst of mesmer skills where opponents aren't given anywhere near the same amount of time to react.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> Babs pew pews from walls anyway, he knows all about cheese ;)

 

Hey at least i do not have to roam with 12 others just to flip a camp. If you want an example of cheese look no further then 12 guys trying to chase down one thief that just pew pewed a number of them to death , then doing a dance once they finally get him ;)

[Cynz.9437]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Babs pew pews from walls anyway, he knows all about cheese ;)

>

> Hey at least i do not have to roam with 12 others just to flip a camp. If you want an example of cheese look no further then 12 guys trying to chase down one thief that just pew pewed a number of them to death , then doing a dance once they finally get him ;)

 

^^wvw in nutshell

[Strider Pj.2193]

If I am that thief, I take that dance as a victory dance for me.

[Sylvyn.4750]

There's safety in numbers...or, at the very least, revenge...:)

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

Deadeyes have to mark and wait 12-20 seconds for Malice to build before DJ hits that hard. In the meantime, the only defense they have is stealth because they give up mobility, toughness, vitality, and all manner of defenses in the hopes that this ONE skill will actually hit. This is a L2p issue. You can CLEARLY see the mark and you have plenty of time to react to it. And even by max malice, it's literally the most telegraphed skill in the entire game.

 

I'm starting to think this is little more than bad players looking for easy kills. It's the same way with every rogue-type class in every game ever; bad players can't handle being ganked because they weren't paying attention, so they kick, and scream, and cry until they get the class nerfed.

 

I hate to break this to you, but even if you successfully get DJ nerfed, good thieves will simply adapt and find another way to gank you, and continue kicking back to a nice, fresh cup of your tears.

 


 

[Choppy.4183]

Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

 

Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

 

I bet the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. Anyway, I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be up with DE's fun factor.

[Ubi.4136]

> @Choppy.4183 said:

> Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* that people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

>

> Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

>

> Just seems like the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be wrong.

 

Cause people were ONLY playing for the 1 shot kill and don't realize how strong deadeye is. Holosmith is a challenge, and condition Mirage is a hard counter, but you can kill almost everything else as DE without ever kneeling.

[kash.9213]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> >

> > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> >

> >

>

> LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

 

Okay, lets take all of the modifiers that have to be built up to land that "single hit" and spread the damage it would output in that one DJ around to all of the actions leading up to it. I don't use DJ much so I'd love to have the majority of my damage happening on auto and stealth attack. Do you want to scrap DJ as it is and get killed way faster, almost instantly, by eating a boosted Three Round Burst and a newly beefed up auto? Death's Judgment is a trophy skill that's a reward to pull off but doesn't really change the game, you can have the ample time it takes to build up to that to dodge or slowly walk away while laughing or you can take my front loaded damage to your face before you have time to think.

[Sobx.1758]

> @Choppy.4183 said:

> Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

>

> Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

>

> I bet the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. Anyway, I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be up with DE's fun factor.

 

It's not "fun factor", it's that DD is simply stronger than DE. And why nobody cares to talk about it with ANet? Because if you noticed last patch, their idea to ""balance"" -at least thief's- builds isn't to make them all good. It's to bring down better ones on the same level the worse ones are at. DD was fine for past 2 years, suddenly with a release of DE, DD had to get nerfed. Ayyy, good job anet.

Also if you keep complaining about DE, maybe you should go and play it. Don't forget to shoot a continuous (as in uncut) clip of your pr0-3asy-1shots so everyone can finally see that people crying about it being somehow 'op' know what they're talking about. Becuase threads like this one are just laughable.

[Choppy.4183]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Choppy.4183 said:

> > Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

> >

> > Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

> >

> > I bet the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. Anyway, I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be up with DE's fun factor.

>

> Also if you keep complaining about DE, maybe you should go and play it. Don't forget to shoot a continuous (as in uncut) clip of your pr0-3asy-1shots so everyone can finally see that people crying about it being somehow 'op' know what they're talking about. Becuase threads like this one are just laughable.

 

Kinda got lost in your own comment here, huh?

[Sobx.1758]

> @Ubi.4136 said:

> > @Choppy.4183 said:

> > Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* that people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

> >

> > Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

> >

> > Just seems like the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be wrong.

>

> Cause people were ONLY playing for the 1 shot kill and don't realize how strong deadeye is. Holosmith is a challenge, and condition Mirage is a hard counter, but you can kill almost everything else as DE without ever kneeling.

 

I hope you realise that's an empty statement with """"facts"""" taken straight out of your own butt, so this post has completely no value as any argument.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> If I am that thief, I take that dance as a victory dance for me.

 

Best part of mmo's really.

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @Choppy.4183 said:

> Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

>

> Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

>

> I bet the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. Anyway, I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be up with DE's fun factor.

 

It would, but the DJ in this club don't do requests, so macarena or sit

[OriOri.8724]

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> > > > >

> > > > > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

> > >

> > > Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

> >

> > You have kitten screenshots of a single hit from deaths judgement doing that much damage. You guys are in some extreme denial in this thread.

>

> Of which no one else but you is ignoring the other skills/traits which required waiting at least 12 long seconds to produce that high number. No one can get that high of a number from Death's Judgement without the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark. Only you are trying to compare waiting 12 seconds of a highly telegraphed mark to a quick multi-hit combo burst of mesmer skills where opponents aren't given anywhere near the same amount of time to react.

 

Its pointless arguing with some of you thiefs honestly. All of that damage is coming in a single hit. You can't deny that, yet somehow you keep on trying. Its honestly quite funny watching you guys try to reason your way out of this one. All of that damage comes in 1 hit. All of it. Enough to down any player. In 1 hit. That's not good game design, and never will be.

[Chaba.5410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

> > > >

> > > > Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

> > >

> > > You have kitten screenshots of a single hit from deaths judgement doing that much damage. You guys are in some extreme denial in this thread.

> >

> > Of which no one else but you is ignoring the other skills/traits which required waiting at least 12 long seconds to produce that high number. No one can get that high of a number from Death's Judgement without the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark. Only you are trying to compare waiting 12 seconds of a highly telegraphed mark to a quick multi-hit combo burst of mesmer skills where opponents aren't given anywhere near the same amount of time to react.

>

> Its pointless arguing with some of you thiefs honestly. All of that damage is coming in a single hit. You can't deny that, yet somehow you keep on trying. Its honestly quite funny watching you guys try to reason your way out of this one. All of that damage comes in 1 hit. All of it. Enough to down any player. In 1 hit. That's not good game design, and never will be.

 

I don't play thief. I play mostly guardian and engineer, but that's irrelevant to the discussion of what balance is. Death's Judgement used to do the bonus damage against unmarked targets which meant that targets only had the 1/2 second tell of DJ itself instead of the 12 second tell with the mark. Some people seem to think balance should mean damage numbers only and don't seem to care that balance includes other mechanisms such as tells and casting time and cooldowns. So the skill was balanced better with tells since nerfing the damage numbers would make the skill basically useless to anyone not running pure glass. If people are getting one-shot by DJ after this change, it means they completely ignored a more than 12 second opportunity to take corrective action. It bewilders me why you would think having such a long time to react is somehow unbalanced.

[OriOri.8724]

Likewise it bewilders me why so many people are so ok with a mechanic that one shots players if they make a single mistake. No single hit should be doing enough damage to down players from 100% health. Period. That's not ok to have them be instantly downed due to a single mistake.

[Crossaber.8934]

I think it is supposed to be a powerful hit, it was a huge problem we got no tell about the powerful shot coming, it should be much better now as the mark is quite visible.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

> > > >

> > > > Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

> > >

> > > You have kitten screenshots of a single hit from deaths judgement doing that much damage. You guys are in some extreme denial in this thread.

> >

> > Of which no one else but you is ignoring the other skills/traits which required waiting at least 12 long seconds to produce that high number. No one can get that high of a number from Death's Judgement without the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark. Only you are trying to compare waiting 12 seconds of a highly telegraphed mark to a quick multi-hit combo burst of mesmer skills where opponents aren't given anywhere near the same amount of time to react.

>

> Its pointless arguing with some of you thiefs honestly. All of that damage is coming in a single hit. You can't deny that, yet somehow you keep on trying. Its honestly quite funny watching you guys try to reason your way out of this one. All of that damage comes in 1 hit. All of it. Enough to down any player. In 1 hit. That's not good game design, and never will be.

 

Well it's only a 3.38 multiplier at 7 malice stacks, which is about 4% more damage than full adrenaline kill shot (3.25). It's not really the shot itself but how damage modifiers operate in this game.

[Vieteriukko.6075]

I main DE in WvW. DJ is useless in small scale since 90% of players dodge or just side step it. Many even do funny emotes like ”dance” or ”wave” while waiting bullets to dodge. Big hit is not one skill but combination of two and the execution takes 20 seconds.

 

In large scale DJ is useless because it gets blocked / absorbed by anything.

[Sobx.1758]

> @Choppy.4183 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Choppy.4183 said:

> > > Not sure I understand most people's position here. Wouldn't it be better if a DE *didn't* have to set up a single shot for 20s to be effective, *AND* people didn't have a dodge-or-die scenario for this single shot?

> > >

> > > Just seems boring for everyone, frankly. I assume that's why most people don't play DE that way, and why people don't like it when they come across someone who does.

> > >

> > > I bet the spec could be made more fun while simultaneously reducing forum rage. Anyway, I see more Daredevils than Deadeyes these days, so something must be up with DE's fun factor.

> >

> > Also if you keep complaining about DE, maybe you should go and play it. Don't forget to shoot a continuous (as in uncut) clip of your pr0-3asy-1shots so everyone can finally see that people crying about it being somehow 'op' know what they're talking about. Becuase threads like this one are just laughable.

>

> Kinda got lost in your own comment here, huh?

 

No?