22k Deaths Judgement After the "fix"

[Chaba.5410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> All of the damage is coming from a single hit that is coming from a single skill. You can try to argue about setting up all you want, but this is poor design. Under this design, if they fail to block or dodge a single attack, they are instantly downed because so much damage is coming from a single kitten hit. In one shot _combos_ they still have the opportunity to miss blocking or dodging a hit or two and still live, because the damage is spread out between multiple skills hitting at the same time.

>

> A single skill dealing so much damage is not and never will be balanced. In any way shape or form.

 

It cannot be said that "all of the damage" is coming from that one skill. A player can no longer be one-shot with Death's Judgement without that added damage bonus that comes from other skills/traits with tells. The skill only adds on bonus damage if there's been the mark set up, which comes from the Deadeye's Mark mechanic. Stealth adds in it's own bonus to damage. The mark exists to give players a very long opportunity to block or dodge in a way that doesn't even exist with your mesmer "one shot combo" comparison. The mark gives players way more time to react than they ever could with "one shot combos". Death's Judgement now has better counter-play and if a player is getting one-shot by it, that's now on them. The OP sounds like he stood in the same place throwing down useless AoE marks instead of kiting out the skill and didn't dodge at all.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Cerby.1069 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > No skill should be able to 1shot anyone.

> >

>

> What do you mean no skill should be able to 1 shot anymore? If you don't want to be 1 shot just run tankier gear, problem solved. Either that or learn to LOOOK AROUND YOU AND BE AWARE OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT and learn to dodge.

>

> IF being aware of your environment and not being able to dodge isn't the problem then the skill itself needs more counters added to it. It doesn't need to not be a 1 shot....

>

> Buddy up, that's ur third option. This is why downed state exists and why its so powerful. People can 1 shot all the time and still not get a single kill.

 

^this.

 

 

[Chaba.5410]

> @Anthony.7630 said:

> If you have the red mark ...you could try hiding behind a wall or in between towers. I think you can also wp back to garrison or keep or have some tank for you. I am not sure but i think a veteran npc can also tank the damage for you.

 

I want to highlight this statement. Death's Judgement is a kneel skill. The thief is rooted. If you move behind a wall or other terrain, the thief cannot execute the skill without moving. It basically messes up his shot and he has to wait again and reposition.

[Strider Pj.2193]

For those saying one hit kills should never happen: what do you consider the armor base and vitality base to say that should be true?

 

Is it 2.2 k armor and 15k vitality?

 

Is the threshold 3.0k armor and 22k vitality?

 

Is it no green armor should be one shot?

 

Where is that line?

 

 

[Napo.1230]

Almost got on board with OP until they said they play necro.

What ever it takes to stop you from polluting wvw with this condi cheese I'm on board.

[Baldrick.8967]

There seems to be an increasing number of skills or skill combos that instantly or almost instantly down players- and in a group battle, you cannot see most of them coming.

 

A stationary battle where two sides are waving at each other, thief heaven.

 

The entire direction of the damage in this game is bad, as it is designed for pve or very small scale pvp. It just doesn't really work all that well for wvw and they should balance the skills for wvw as a separate area, but they won't as that takes resources....

[Odokuro.5049]

Malice generation sucks, it takes fifteen'ish seconds to pull Malice to full, while that's going on, we're hitting you like a sock puppet because our only saving grace damage skill, is the only, "Big BOOM" skill the rifle has.

 

That damage you took, was the product of Vuln stacks, Deadeyes can stack Vuln pretty quick, almost being able to get a full stack on a target, so it's not only the skill that is doing that damage, it's being brought up by the fact that you're going to take X% more damage from the Vuln on you, as well as, the Deadeye having a fair amount of Might.

 

This skill has the biggest tell in the entire game, with a bright red beam forming on you, and then the shot comes. So maybe, learn to dodge, not trying to be mean, but this just seems to be a case of not knowing when to dodge, or ignoring preventative mechanics and coming here to complain about it.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > 'If you set it up correctly' being the key phrase.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe I'm salty... maybe I am tired of power hate... people finally being given some ability to, under the right circumstances, hit like a truck, but also be wrecked if they mess up..

> > > > >

> > > > > The people doing these damages are

> > > > > Glass cannons.

> > > > >

> > > > > And are we really saying that 2.7k armor is tanky? Really? With less than 22k health on a necro. You weren't in a roaming spec, I get it.

> > > >

> > > > Key word being a single skill being able to pull this off. I'm not trying to eliminate one shot builds that use well timed burst combos. But a single skill that is capable of instantly downing players in 1 hit, that is not balanced and should not exist in the game. Even with MW and its damage when full glass cannon and fully setup, it takes 3-4 hits to dish it all out. Death's judgement is doing that same damage in a single hit. That is the core of the problem for me, single skills doing such high damage in a single hit. That should not be possible, period. On any class.

> > >

> > > It takes more than one single skill to be able to pull off that kind of damage with DJ. There's this whole marking mechanic and kneeling and stealthing bit.

> >

> > All of the damage is coming from a single hit that is coming from a single skill. You can try to argue about setting up all you want, but this is poor design. Under this design, if they fail to block or dodge a single attack, they are instantly downed because so much damage is coming from a single kitten hit. In one shot _combos_ they still have the opportunity to miss blocking or dodging a hit or two and still live, because the damage is spread out between multiple skills hitting at the same time.

> >

> > A single skill dealing so much damage is not and never will be balanced. In any way shape or form.

>

> You can try to argue that 22k damage is coming from a single skill, but it is not. And your argument regarding dodging goes both ways. If someone dodges a Death's Judgement, all of the damage is negated. If someone dodges during something like, a mesmer shatter combo, they can still take a hefty chunk of damage.

 

Missing a single dodge should never result in your character going from 100% hp to downed. This is bad design. There is no more clear cut way to put it. You can go on and on all you want about setup and blah blah blah. All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement. I don't know why you keep trying to insist that it didn't come in a single packet from this one skill. There are pictures of combat logs fucking showing this much damage from a single hit from deaths judgement.

 

@"Justine.6351" In this very thread I also stated that mesmers can pull of broken burst and that it needs to be toned down. If you happened to read the thread instead of reply to choice comments out of context you would have known that. Even then though, mesmers need multiple hits to pull off that kind of damage, it doesn't come in a single 22k hit.

[Chaba.5410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

 

No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

 

 

[MUDse.7623]

you are both right- that one DJ did deal that much damage but it needs skills and traits and malice to hit that high. i dont know how the deadeye was playing the OP was talking about so i can only give an example of my deadeye.

while taking this shot from this night :


i had the following stats :


 

+ 7% crit dmg from twin fangs, + 10% crit dmg from ferocious strikes + 20% crit chance from snipers cover + 21% dmg from malice + 105% dmg modifier through malice on DJ +5% damage from sigil +10% scholar.

 

5/9 majortraits are purely for damage increase, alot of damage comes from assassins signet and ofc full berserk.

 

damage will notibly drop when below 90% health as i lose scholar and twinfang dmg bonus there.

 

so yes alot of skills and traits and gear all has to work together to pull of high numbers but its still just 1 hit that delivers all of those stuff packed together.

very tanky players with protection i cannot onehit, but i did onehit quite a few commanders this week...

 

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

>

> No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

>

>

 

Agreed.

Deadeye gives ample warning now to the intended target. Failing the idiot test is l2p. The guy preaching about real-life snipers should be happy the area denial aspect was preserved as well.

 

I still think giving teef a 1500 range weapon was dumb, but it's in a good place. <,< For dumb

[atheria.2837]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

 

What target?

 

If you are talking about wvw or pvp, I haven't seen a target above my head in over a year.

 

If you're talking about 'red circle' tells, uh, lag negates that as well as so many other factors it's just ridiculous.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @atheria.2837 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

>

> What target?

>

> If you are talking about wvw or pvp, I haven't seen a target above my head in over a year.

>

> If you're talking about 'red circle' tells, uh, lag negates that as well as so many other factors it's just ridiculous.

 

Go look up a skill called Deadeye’s Mark, it’s got two really obvious Visuals. You can also find screenshots of it to.

 

But I feel this is a 10/10 meme post

[LetoII.3782]

> @atheria.2837 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

>

> What target?

>

> If you are talking about wvw or pvp, I haven't seen a target above my head in over a year.

>

> If you're talking about 'red circle' tells, uh, lag negates that as well as so many other factors it's just ridiculous.

 

You've never seen the big red dot over your head with corresponding red circle around you on the ground?

 

Must be nice. -_-

[OriOri.8724]

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

>

> No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

>

>

 

LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @Anthony.7630 said:

> Hi this is my opinion and experience. I play scrapper in maguuma and i have been hit by deadeye.

>

> The thing is - i am full sentinel gear so its not like i get 1 shotted - more like getting 8 shots over 8 seconds... And i just dodge and use hammer shield and i am fine.

>

> My advice would be to practice using your "feelings" because the red mark takes 12 seconds before they unload and then you dodge dodge pop defensives and then the dead eye is useless. Dead eye.is the same as holosmith and scourge. They are dps aggressive damage builds but function different.

>

> If you have the red mark ...you could try hiding behind a wall or in between towers. I think you can also wp back to garrison or keep or have some tank for you. I am not sure but i think a veteran npc can also tank the damage for you.

>

> Any ways yea that's my experience. Hope it helps some of you.

 

I really like "feeling" out how each individual plays. Some are overly aggressive, some like to wait it out, but as a general rule I just tend to count down their cooldowns/stealth but this applies to any class really. The ones that like to stay in stealth usually like the mind game play and a lot of people fall for it. I look forward to the day when people finally see how easy it is to counterplay de and do not fear it. Speaking of challenges, I finally came across a kalla renegade that actually had a surprisingly good build and they played it well, wish I had it recorded. Rare species.

[Caedmon.6798]

Egh all people coming up with random excuses while OP is merely stating or i pressume he is,that a 22k hit with One skill should not be made possible for any class.Despite what else a class has to offer or if he can hear or see it coming or not.

 

It was bad when warris did 15 - 20k gunflames,but somehow its justified when a thief is able to do it because being squishy etc.Hypocricy is real.

[Offair.2563]

Funny to see people defending cheesy stuff. Always keeps me entertained.

[babazhook.6805]

If a thief is attacking so as to build his malice faster , You know where he is and he will be revealed subject to that Ample AOE that a necromancer has. If you know the general location of said thief you can start manuvering on the field to open distance. When he kneels he is not moving. He has to kneel to get off a DJ. Alternatively you can close on him and act aggressively.

 

If the thief just camps stealth his malice can only build passively meaning he needs 20 seconds to get off a shot at 5 stacks. In order to build malice faster the thief needs to be attacking. (passive gain is 1 stack every 4 seconds active is 1 every 2 seconds)

 

Malice duration is all of 25 seconds meaning if he wants to get to 5 stacks without attacking he has a full 5 seconds to get off his DJ shot(assuming he passively built malice as the original post suggests). He can get at most two off before ini exhausted and malice expires. A necromancer need only dodge those two shots. This of course means the thief will rarely ever get to his 7 malice stack maximum if traited malificient 7. The DJ shot has plenty of tells and if paying attention it not all that hard to dodge an incoming shot.

 

If this fails the Necromancer can thow up a corrosive poison cloud if need be at around the 16 second mark from mark. the DJ will not get his shot off. The cloud lasts 8 seconds and malice will reset to zero. No dodge needed just stand in the cloud. Better yet if that thief caught in it. Cloud runs 8 more seconds, Thief must start malice at zero again.

 

Just because the DE thief might camp stealth to PASSIVELY build malice, it hardly means any of the intended victims must stand there twiddling their thumbs. JUST as it takes pressing ONE button after that malice built to get the shot off , only one button needs to be pressed in order to avoid all of its damage. Your dodge is one button and the tell of the shot is quite obvious as it coupled with a sound as well as a beam. The cast time on Corrosive poison cloud is also less then the cast time of DJ and takes only one button to activate.

 

End result? Either by dodging or using CPC you just canceled 22000 damage using one skill.

[Aurelius.6829]

Anet will never remove DJ so you just have to learn to deal with it.

And I, as a mesmer main, enjoy playing tennis with them.

[Chaba.5410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > All of that damage, all 22k of it, came from a single hit from death's judgement.

> >

> > No it didn't. It came from bonuses applied by stealth traits and Deadeye's Mark malice stacks which take over 12 seconds to accumulate to high enough stacks to provide one-shot capability. Player had more than enough time and warning to do something effective against the shot including kiting away.

> >

> >

>

> LOL you can't even deny that the damage all came from a single hit. Go on, show me how that damage comes from multiple hits. Do it. I'm waiting.

 

Use the damage formula published on the wiki without including the bonus damage from Deadeye's Mark to explain how Death's Judgement can one-shot someone. I'm waiting.

[Cynz.9437]

Oh the irony, THIS is coming from scourge xD I should send that thief some gold for battling scourges that plague competitive environment in this game atm.

 

On more serious note, while i am not defending DE (imo, it is useless spec and can be deleted all together for all i care) you actually did have plethora of time to react to such attack. There are few spells in game that can one shot me with right set up and they usually give me even less reaction time than DJ with malice.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Offair.2563 said:

> Funny to see people defending cheesy stuff. Always keeps me entertained.

 

IKR? I can't believe people are defending that 15-21 seconds of notice and a significant tell isn't enough to avoid getting hit.

 

;)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Babs pew pews from walls anyway, he knows all about cheese ;)

[Odokuro.5049]

> @Caedmon.6798 said:

> Egh all people coming up with random excuses while OP is merely stating or i pressume he is,that a 22k hit with One skill should not be made possible for any class.Despite what else a class has to offer or if he can hear or see it coming or not.

>

> It was bad when warris did 15 - 20k gunflames,but somehow its justified when a thief is able to do it because being squishy etc.Hypocricy is real.

 

Which are valid excuses.

 

1. Super Squishy: Less than 2100 Armor and 11K Hitpoints

2. Damage increasing traits chosen over defensive ones.

3. High end offensive stats like 2800+ Attack (Pre-Might) 60%+ Chance to crit 250%+ Critical Damage.

4. Sigils/Runes chosen to boost damage even higher, these same runes offer no defensive stats and are purely chosen for DPS.

Ect.

 

The reason why people have a problem with Gunflame, is while it does tremendous damage, the Warrior retains things like sustain/survivability/mobility ect. a thing that Deadeye gives up, putting all their faith into one skill being able to down/kill someone.

 

I feel like a lot of people just want to ignore these facts, and complain just to complain.

 

Thieves have gotten crapped on in every way, ANet listens, thieves get nerfed into the ground. It's at the point where Thieves have little to no viable builds, outside of some strict niche ones, because the community has it out to drive them into the ground because they have one skill that does a lot of damage, because of modifiers.