No jumping puzzles?

[ROMANG.1903]

Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

[Endless Soul.5178]

Probably from too many complaints after Chalice of Tears.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely?

 

Probably not. JP's are still quite popular with at least a part of the player base. I see no reason why there will be no more jumping puzzles altogether.

 

> Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

 

No, a [mounts disabled](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mounts_Disabled "mounts disabled") zone is enough to disable them for the area. And maybe a special mounted JP could be possible as well.

 

[DeanBB.4268]

I'm good with no more jumping puzzles.

[Endless Soul.5178]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> I'm good with no more jumping puzzles.

 

Well thanks for ruining the fun for the rest of us that like them.

[Blude.6812]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

 

Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

[DeanBB.4268]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

 

Please no. For those overly challenged by JP's, mesmers are a blessing.

[Hesacon.8735]

I like the short 2-5 minute jumping puzzles you find totally by accident while exploring, but hate the really long checkpoint ones like chalice of tears. It seems like the shorter ones would be easier to implement.

 

With lw4 maps they could even count as a map daily and have one of those simple jumping puzzle chests with some map currency.

[Shostie.6435]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

 

I personally find it pretty annoying when running by a JP I'm not trying to complete causes me to drop off my mount. There's no perfect solution, but I would prefer invisible barriers to disabling mounts when possible. I know invisible barriers are also annoying and there are some JPs where they simply can't work, but for the JPs where they could work, they would be less intrusive for people who are not trying to complete the JP most of the time.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of JPs, but I like them enough that I've noticed and been disappointed that they've been absent in PoF and Season 4. Maybe mounts have shifted cost/benefit so it is no longer positive?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

 

But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

[Danikat.8537]

I doubt they've stopped making jumping puzzles completely. I know a lot of people don't like them, but a lot of other people do and as long as they're optional there shouldn't be a problem with having content only part of the player-base like. I suspect there's several factors that come into it however, like what else the people working on them have to do at the time, whether it fits the map design, whether there's other stuff they want to put in which takes priority...

 

It wouldn't be practical to try and put every kind of content into every new map, so they have to spread it out.

 

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> >

> > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

>

> But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

 

Well if they put them in the new maps that's irrelevant because you have to have PoF to access them, so everyone going there either has mounts already or is able to unlock them.

[BlueJin.4127]

It would be easy to create jumping puzzles without no mount zones. Simply create starting points and end points. Trigger the starting point, then get to end point without using a mount. If the player calls a mount at any point during, the player must restart from starting point. This way, players not doing jumping puzzles won't get randomly dismounted.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

>

> Well if they put them in the new maps that's irrelevant because you have to have PoF to access them, so everyone going there either has mounts already or is able to unlock them.

 

Wait... so saying they need to have POF before they can play the next expansion as well? People who don't have HOT don't have access to Gliders. Think about that statement for a second. Each of these abilities are tied to their expansion. As soon as the next expansion comes out, the level designers have to assume they exist, and have to design a challenge around what players have access to..... otherwise whats the point of making them achievements in the first place. Which is basically why ~~HOT~~ POF has so few of them, as the mobility offered by mounts (especially griffon) breaks the most common forms of obstacles used in designing JPs.

 

Theres one thing in letting back-catalog content atrophy with age.... but its another to ignore these problems for ones moving forward. Why do you think mounts are disabled in Raids?

[Wolfb.7025]

Beign able to jump, and use that jump ability to clear jumping puzzles is one of the main things that bought me into loving this game.

 

 

Never seen or heard about a mmorpg with plataforming features, props for that.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Probably from too many complaints after Chalice of Tears.

 

Isnt that optional content?

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

 

It’s cheating if using them in such a way that you bypass parts of a JP from what was originally intended. It doesn’t matter if they were paid for.

 

Anet also hasn’t been 100% effective in preventing their use to do this. You can still bypass pretty much all of Stepping Stones in SSC and the one south of the map in FGS.

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> >

> > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

>

> But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

 

Why would they have to design around mounts? Design as normal for those who like them and allow the rest to use mounts if they wish.

[JDub.1530]

Frankly I was having fun cheesing some of the JPs with mounts. Especially ones they TRIED to block. lol What really bugs me is Dark Reverie. Not only because you have to do TWO JPs to do it (I've always hated that puzzle) but also because they were so overzealous, like 20% of Caledon is mount blocked.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> > >

> > > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

> >

> > But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

>

> Why would they have to design around mounts? Design as normal for those who like them and allow the rest to use mounts if they wish.

 

Why make content like that if players will simply bypass it for the rewards. Thats a huge distinction between optional content, and the option to circumvent it.

The former doesn't need to be done for the higher purposes of the game, but the latter trivializes to the point of questioning the reasoning of the design. Why bother designing complex mechanical puzzles, if players can simply smash it until it dies, or skip over it with little effort just to grab the rewards? The vast majority of players gravitate toward ease and efficiency when it comes to rewards...... and the problems its created are now deeply root in player behavior, and has affected game design in turn.

 

 

Just look at the threads about the Gauntlet being too difficult, and the rewards terrible. The difficulty of the fights aren't that different now then they were then, and they should technically be easier with the amount of power creep in competent Espec builds. Not to mention the extra irony of the lore around the gauntlet being pitched as one of the most grueling, dangerous challenges contenders could face, without having to fight the real thing. But people just want to blow through it for the most rewards possible, and then complain about how something else has a higher reward output for their time.

 

Why bother putting effort into making these fights, if players just burn through it in less then an hour, and then complain about how theres nothing to do? How do you design something to engage a population, thats largely made up of people who get upset or frustrated when the game demands more then slightly above passive attention from them? The gauntlets even teach you the mechanics you'll be using in the fight.... so the fact that this is escaping any player's notice after multiple attempts is incredibly concerning. If we design everything with a low or zero effort option for success, but offer equal rewards (or can be cheesed for equal rewards), whats the point of even making a high effort option..... or even designing the content to do anything unique at all? The folly of the Content tourist is how they'll passively consume content/experiences faster then you can create it, but riot if ANYTHING interferes with that passive approach.

 

People are even getting mad at having to make choice if it locks out another, unless one is unequivocally, and objectively superior to the other.

[notebene.3190]

I like 'trying' to do them. If I get to frustrated, I like there is an option for ports or burning a 'teleport to friend' to do it, for an achievement. I don't like when they make them part of the meta achievement, where you 'have' to do it. I'd much prefer they have titles, skins, other nice things for pulling it off, but not part of a zone or lw zone meta. When they are part of the meta, that's when I start breaking out TtFs and/or paying for Mesmer ports. If they aren't part of the meta, I'm more inclined to try them until I get frustrated and stop, not achieving the reward and letting the people that can do that sort of thing have it.

 

And I certainly wouldn't want them to 'stop' making them. Lots of people really enjoy them. :)

[Ayrilana.1396]

I think it was Josh that primarily does them and he’s probably just caught up in another project.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"JDub.1530" said:

> Frankly I was having fun cheesing some of the JPs with mounts. Especially ones they TRIED to block. lol What really bugs me is Dark Reverie. Not only because you have to do TWO JPs to do it (I've always hated that puzzle) but also because they were so overzealous, like 20% of Caledon is mount blocked.

 

Yeah, those mount blocked zones should start above raptor leap height, IMO. You get dismounted and knocked down hard anyway once you enter them so it'd be nicer.

[Blude.6812]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> >

> > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

>

> It’s cheating if using them in such a way that you bypass parts of a JP from what was originally intended. It doesn’t matter if they were paid for.

>

> Anet also hasn’t been 100% effective in preventing their use to do this. You can still bypass pretty much all of Stepping Stones in SSC and the one south of the map in FGS.

>

 

Sorry it's not cheating for using a legitimate game mechanic, just like using a mesmer portal or using minions pets to farm are not considered cheating by Anet. and that's what counts, not some players that want all others to play the same way as they do.

[kurfu.5623]

We can argue in circles about how many players either like or dislike JP's, but the fact is Anet has the numbers as to how many people actually do the puzzles, and may have decided it's not worth investing the resources to make new ones very often.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> > >

> > > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

> >

> > It’s cheating if using them in such a way that you bypass parts of a JP from what was originally intended. It doesn’t matter if they were paid for.

> >

> > Anet also hasn’t been 100% effective in preventing their use to do this. You can still bypass pretty much all of Stepping Stones in SSC and the one south of the map in FGS.

> >

>

> Sorry it's not cheating for using a legitimate game mechanic, just like using a mesmer portal or using minions pets to farm are not considered cheating by Anet. and that's what counts, not some players that want all others to play the same way as they do.

 

Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.