Can we get a look at all of the stat sets that aren't being used?

[Kalthea.4326]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the only sets I see any use out of:

 

Berserker's

Commander's

Harrier's

Viper's

Soldier's

 

And sometimes you'll see Carrion's, Cleric's, Magi's or Minstrel's as placeholders for the better variants of those sets, but for the most part, it's those 5 stat sets, out of a total of 49!

 

It might be a good idea to increase the effectiveness of defensive stats a bit to make other stat sets more appealing, instead of looking at everyone and seeing that they're using the exact same armor sets over and over again. Maybe that would give a bit more viability to other builds? Just feels a bit strange to see so many armor sets that aren't being touched.

[phs.6089]

Just a note. FB support(WvW) and Crono(Raids) are running Minstrel or freshwater pearls won't be hitting 6-7 gold per

[Kalthea.4326]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> Just a note. FB support(WvW) and Crono(Raids) are running Minstrel or freshwater pearls won't be hitting 6-7 gold per

 

Thanks for the update. But even still, that's a lot of stuff not being used.

[Randulf.7614]

Soldiers is defensive though, so it isnt just a problem solved solely by upping defensive stats

 

A lot of the others do get used, perhaps just not always infull sets but in mixes. Also, if you are judging by meta builds, well most players dont use metas anyway and pick what they want eo it is difficult to gauge what is being used.

[yann.1946]

Are you talking of pve only?

 

[Tzarakiel.7490]

You forgot sinister, grieving, marauder and Valkyrie.

[Westenev.5289]

I wouldn't suggest using soldier's in PvE - perhaps try Marauder's instead, which is frequently used in place of Berserker for higher sustain for a minimal dps loss.

 

I was under the impression all this "variation" was to provide customisable stats for roamers in WvW, who are the only people who seem to benefit from runing many of the otherwise redundant runes, sigils and stats. However niche this role, I don't think defensive stats should be boosted beyond what they already are, simply because I don't want to find myself in a party of slapsticks who don't deal any damage or provide any relevant support (like when wing 1 was released).

 

Personally, I think the classes should be de-normalised so some sets will look more appealing. For example, you wouldn't want to wear berserker if your crit rate is already pushing near 100%, and perhaps you might want healing power if you have high base power/condi but terrabad heals.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

Assassin's is also being used. Not as a whole set, but mixed with Berserker's for min-maxing to get the sweet 100% crit-chance.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said:

> Assassin's is also being used. Not as a whole set, but mixed with Berserker's for min-maxing to get the sweet 100% crit-chance.

 

Don't reflect mesmers use full Assassin's?

[mortrialus.3062]

Marauder's gets used in WvW.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Kalthea.4326" said:

> It might be a good idea to increase the effectiveness of defensive stats a bit to make other stat sets more appealing

 

Don't think that's the right approach, even though I agree with the idea.

 

I'd rather see item stats **removed**. They cause all kind of weird design and balance issues. It'd be easier if skills simply did the listed value of an effect, period. We would still have a plethora of customization options via rune effects, sigils, traits, weapons and skills while items could finally become the cosmetics-only thing they factually already are - everyone just goes and copies the optimal stats anyhow.

 

At the same time, I **do** think combat progresses too quickly **for a MMORPG** (the last part is very important, I like my games fast otherweise). There's no time to chat and socialize during a fight without relying on external voicecomm, and this being a MMORPG, and hence a game centered around socializing, I kinda mind that. It's easy to communicate outside of combat, but during it there's too much going on too quickly and everything is too spammy to keep chatting. Compare the slow casts of EQ1 or even WoW where you could type in a quick line during a Greater Healing Wave cast, np.

 

But, if stats are removed **without** folding all their power back into the base skills - and I would hope it'd be done that way! - then combat would slow down significantly anyhow. Boon uptime would drop significantly, as would condition durations, crit chances, walking speed, everything. People would have far less HP but also deal far far faaaar lower damage. There would be time to chat.

[Gehenna.3625]

Celestial is often scorned but I find it very useful in open world PvE on my guardian, for example. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for all classes but I do like the balanced set because it does offer more survivability and for events and world bosses it just works well for me. The defensive stats could be a bit better but I find that if I'm in melee range I like having more defense. Of course my necro or Mesmer don't have that issue so much because they have illusions and minions to soak a lot of things and I can just pick my moments to get into melee or jump out of it. But yeah I think that for a balanced open world build, celestial is definitely an option for some classes.

 

I do agree there are a lot of stat sets that are superfluous but I would be careful to just look at the most used only. I suspect that about half of them could easily be removed without causing any issues of note. I imagine they could see how many people run stat sets and how effective they are, only looking at level 80 exotics and up. But there are really too many choices that don't really make any sense.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Kalthea.4326" said:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the only sets I see any use out of:

>

> Berserker's

> Commander's

> Harrier's

> Viper's

> Soldier's

>

> And sometimes you'll see Carrion's, Cleric's, Magi's or Minstrel's as placeholders for the better variants of those sets, but for the most part, it's those 5 stat sets, out of a total of 49!

>

> It might be a good idea to increase the effectiveness of defensive stats a bit to make other stat sets more appealing, instead of looking at everyone and seeing that they're using the exact same armor sets over and over again. Maybe that would give a bit more viability to other builds? Just feels a bit strange to see so many armor sets that aren't being touched.

 

The problem is with how the majority of the game is designed/built. In short, in this game, Damage is king. Which is why sets such as: Berserker, Marauder, Grieving, Sinister etc are the most popular choices.

 

---

 

The game has enough active defenses built into most classes, or other mitigating effects, that once you learn/become proficient with your class, you don't need stats to keep you alive. Dodge, blocks, Invuln, Blind, Aegis, Evade, etc. These are not dependent on defensive stats, and when used well completely negate the need for defensive stats. Thus, everyone that reaches a level of proficiency with their class and the combat system, stacks all their stats into something they have a use for, more damage (mostly).

 

Increasing the efficiency of the defensive stats won't actually fix that, if toughness gave 2x or 4x as much armor, it still wouldn't be taken for meta builds for example, because, you still don't need that toughness and it is always more optimized to stack damage. On the other hand, increasing toughness so it gave x2 or x4 as much armor would become a crutch for players that have not mastered their class/combat system, and they would feel more punished trying to remove it later, so it would become another minor reason for some people to find it harder to master their class.

 

---

 

A variant idea is actually to halve the base Toughness+Vitality from 1000 each to 500, that way people would want to invest somewhat into these stats in order to not become complete glass, and die to a few hits. Trully make going glass cannon into an actual glass cannon, unlike now where you can still have "enough" armor/hitpoint even on full zerk to get through most things (general).

 

---

 

The game was originally made with this combat system for PVP reasons, which is why the game was balanced around pvp for the first 3 years. Then they shifted over to balancing around pve (raids/fractals) in 2015 (hot). This is relevant because most stat-sets have been used in WvW which is a pvp-mode, which means you're up against enemies that ca be worse-equal-better than you.

 

Where in PvE you're almost always up against the boring AI that randomly spews out attacks on timers, thus once you have their timer down, they can literally not touch you if you play well. Most of PvE just doesn't have enemies that challenge you enough to make it worth/interesting to use any other stat-sets than the maximum damage ones.

 

HOT was announced as harder PVE (and it is, to some extent), and that it would be "the zerk meta killer". But after a couple of weeks/months most people have learned the mobs attack patterns, can separate mobs from group, knows which mobs to take on solo and which you can group etc, and now we are back to the same situation we where in before. Simply put, the mobs in pve doesn't offer enough challenge for us to ever trade out our Zerk or other glass cannon gear.

 

/rant

[Deadvillager.1956]

I would straight up remove dead stat combos. There are meta stat combos that woek for every class, there are meta combos that work for specific builds and there are combos that only work in wvw for some reason. Scaling wont help dead stat combos, it would only unbalance the combos that are already used.

[Voltekka.2375]

Marauder, cavalier, soldier, Dire, trailblazer, apothecary, celestial, plaguedoctor, marshall, cleric, magi, carrion, rabid, crusader are stats on top of my head i use in wvw, multiple toons. Creating and/or experimenting on my own style depending on class and usage (roamer or blobbing)

Not everything has to be pve.

[Obtena.7952]

OP , you don't know what stat sets people are and aren't using.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Wasn’t griever meta for the firebrand?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Marauder's gets used in WvW.

 

As does celestial, trailblazers, and a whole slew of combos by picking and choosing to create hybrids.

 

So yeah totally for stronger hybrid roamers, condi bunkers and entire minstrel/celestial zergs in WvW wooooo!!!

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> Wasn’t griever meta for the firebrand?

 

Mix of Griever and Viper is meta for Condi Reaper

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Kalthea.4326" said:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the only sets I see any use out of:

>

> Berserker's

> Commander's

> Harrier's

> Viper's

> Soldier's

 

Magi is a popular set. Trailblazer's sees use in WvW. Celestial has seen use in many builds. Dire is pretty useful on some builds on a budget. Assassin's is preffered over Berzerker in some places. The new PlagureDoctor's is on some builds according to people I have talked to. I've used a Seraph's FB build at one point that was very strong and fun. I run Sinster on my Weaver and it's great. My Spellbreaker is all done in Maurader's and it's exceptionally strong.

 

You are not wrong. Just myopic.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > Wasn’t griever meta for the firebrand?

>

> Mix of Griever and Viper is meta for Condi Reaper

 

Do you have a build for this? Genuinely intrigued!

[Despond.2174]

Actually a lot of the stats are used. It just depends what mode. Like others have mentioned ones you have missed, there are many combinations people chang constantly depending on the content they are doing. There's nothing wrong having a best set for a certain part of content, that will always happen. There are pros and cons, some players are not quick enough to fully utilize nearly all offensive. Some may just want to do world content for example on a thief and go mara just to avoid a 1 shot etc. Some people may have full offensive sets, pvp sets, vit+offensive etc, healer set, boon sharing set etc. It's actually quite balanced and nothing like some people try make it out to be.

[Kalthea.4326]

Wow, this blew up! Thanks for all of the input, everyone.

 

As far as I was able to discern from reading through, it seems a lot of builds are used for roaming in WvW or as spinoffs in sPvP. This is understandable, and I suppose I should have clarified a bit.

 

I'm a PvE player. I enjoy doing solo runs through things whenever I can. I'm not talking dungeons, though I'm sure someone's been able to do that at some point. I just enjoy doing large fights and whatnot, and defensive stats are appealing to me for that reason. I'm not really suggesting that we remove stat sets that aren't being used, but introduce some changes that make them a bit more appealing to any class to take.

 

And yes, I'm aware that this may cause issue with balancing. But I'm of the opinion that balancing a game around its PvP environment is a /TERRIBLE/ idea. This not only alters builds severely, but PvP is, as many have said, a far different and constantly changing environment. I don't think they should be paired at all. And yes, predictability on mobs can help people dodge incoming damage and whatnot, but that's not exactly a bad thing. Having knowledge of the game world and the enemies you're facing is good, and not only helps you for other enemies of the same type, but lets you introduce other players to what they may have to face.

 

EDIT: I can't spell.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'd rather see people be able to choose any stat type they like. It might be the case that some stat combinations are never used, but so what? That depends on what's meta, what sort of content is out, and has varied somewhat over time. (the system might need an overhaul so acquisition isn't so crazy, but that's a different story)

 

Instead, I'd rather see them adjust runes & sigils. There are lots that probably don't even have any niche

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Kalthea.4326" said:

> It might be a good idea to increase the effectiveness of defensive stats a bit to make other stat sets more appealing, instead of looking at everyone and seeing that they're using the exact same armor sets over and over again. Maybe that would give a bit more viability to other builds? Just feels a bit strange to see so many armor sets that aren't being touched.

 

All that would mean is that it would enable people to have even fewer pieces with the defensive stats and get more with offensive. If they weren't using any defensive pieces to begin with then this would be an irrelevant change.

 

Also please stop misusing the word viable.