Obtena.7952 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 > @"witcher.3197" said: > > @"Hashberry.4510" said: > > This is nuts. > > It's really not. Necessity promotes bonds and social interactions. I made a lot of friends in GW1 because they were regular sellers or buyers of stuff I was interested in, so keeping touch was beneficial for both of us and gave a reason to talk on a regular basis. How many friends have you made on the Trading Post? > > Same reason why a lot of WoW players think the community died after the dungeon finder was added - no longer did you need to find a group, they put you in one at the press of a button and then everyone went their own way after the run was done. People no longer talked in dungeons and no longer felt the need to keep in touch with previous teammates because finding new ones was so easy. > > The more QoL an MMO has, the more it loses its community aspect. GW2 has the most QoL = least social MMO. If GW2 was missing ways that promote bonds and social interactions, then their might be some validity of creating those things through buying/selling by removing or changing the TP. There is no lack of that though. > @"JoeytheHutt.1742" said: > The way gw2's economy works, I think OP has a point. Because in this game, you dont farm directly for stuff, you farm for gold to buy whatever stuff you need from the TP. So you dont need to farm around the world in different places, you farm the most profitable ones. > I wouldnt blame the TP, its more about how its set up to make buying gems more attractive so Anet can make more money. Not sure the OP has any point; he says we should do something about the TP, then makes some allusion to farming different zones and people mass farming Istan. Frankly, getting rid of the TP wouldn't change either of those things; seems to me he's just fishing for negative gameplay behaviours and with no logic at all, linking that to the TP to justify his view that the TP ruined the game. This is the same guy that claims the gemstore "takes away fun" doing the same thing; allusions to some the idea that GW2 has no fun or challenges. Again, getting rid of the GS wouldn't 'add' fun or challenge to the game either. Same approach, same lack of explanation. The best part is that the OP just throws the idea out and retreats from the thread without further contribution or discussion. Reality check for the OP: GS isn't going away, TP isn't going away either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The TP is not the issue. GW1 could've had an auction house and still have a reason to go to zones because the loot was set up entirely differently in that game. GW2 loot tables only really matter to things like collections. Let's be honest, people go to Tequatl for a bloody spoon. So I think that you are blaming the wrong thing for the problem you refer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Nah.. I remember spending a lot of hours standing in town trying to sell stuff.. it was not fun. I'm not totally against the old trade system though.. having a direct trading option with another play would be useful in some cases but it would undermine the trading post.. we'd probably end up seeing a lot of direct trading causing certain items to spike in price and some possibly becoming unavailable entirely. The two biggest problems I have with the trading post in Gw2 are 1. The over abundance of account bound items that cannot be sold or bought on the kitten thing >.< 2. There are far too many items on the trading post that are under the minimum sell price for that item thus when selling them myself I get a greyed out sell now option which interupts my quick sell process and making the TP annoying to use. Anet should remove listings under their minimum sale price so the latter problem stops being one. As for the account bound items.. some do make sense while others only make sense for a time after they were implemented. For example.. There is absolutely no reason why Lumps of Mithrilium etc still need to be locked behind a daily timegate.. There is no reason why it should still force players to spend a whole week making Mawdry.. There's no reason why Bloodstone Dust etc is not tradable.. There is no reason why LWS3 items like Blood Rubies, Jade Shards, Fresh Winterberry's etc and even earlier LWS4 items like Kralkanite ore should be untradable so long after they were introduced.. A lot of these things are untradable at first to stop more wealthy players just buying up what they need to make entire new sets etc. But after a while when players move on to new maps and new rewards.. newer players or those who are lagging behind or go back to older content many months later find themselves being significantly restricted by the fact that they potentially have to farm thousands of these items in maps that may or may not even be populated anymore with potental daily meta farms running in timeframes that they are unable to log in due to work etc. This often puts people in the mindset of giving up on something entirely because of how much work they are forced to do to complete something. The Astril and Stellar weapons in Istan are a good example of a massive sink requirement on an account bound item (Kralkanite ore) 10 ore for the Kralkanite ingot recipie 160 ore for all the Astril weapon recipies 8000 ore for all the Astril weapons 400 ore for all the Stellar weapon recipies another 8000 ore for all the Stellar weapons. That's a hell of a lot of farming needed for an account bound resource.. Oh yeah and the maps 3 big meta events that give 15 ore each only do so once a day per account.. So you can make about 120 ore per day if you do the 3 meta's and heart venders should you have the karma reserves to buy the daily bundles from them. As well as a few ores here and there from supply chests, caches etc.. That's still months of daily farming just for a resource that really doesn't need to be account bound anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 talk about nostalgia tinted glasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeytheHutt.1742 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > @"Hashberry.4510" said: > > > This is nuts. > > > > It's really not. Necessity promotes bonds and social interactions. I made a lot of friends in GW1 because they were regular sellers or buyers of stuff I was interested in, so keeping touch was beneficial for both of us and gave a reason to talk on a regular basis. How many friends have you made on the Trading Post? > > > > Same reason why a lot of WoW players think the community died after the dungeon finder was added - no longer did you need to find a group, they put you in one at the press of a button and then everyone went their own way after the run was done. People no longer talked in dungeons and no longer felt the need to keep in touch with previous teammates because finding new ones was so easy. > > > > The more QoL an MMO has, the more it loses its community aspect. GW2 has the most QoL = least social MMO. > > If GW2 was missing ways that promote bonds and social interactions, then their might be some validity of creating those things through buying/selling by removing or changing the TP. There is no lack of that though. > > > @"JoeytheHutt.1742" said: > > The way gw2's economy works, I think OP has a point. Because in this game, you dont farm directly for stuff, you farm for gold to buy whatever stuff you need from the TP. So you dont need to farm around the world in different places, you farm the most profitable ones. > > I wouldnt blame the TP, its more about how its set up to make buying gems more attractive so Anet can make more money. > > Not sure the OP has any point; he says we should do something about the TP, then makes some allusion to farming different zones and people mass farming Istan. Frankly, getting rid of the TP wouldn't change either of those things; seems to me he's just fishing for negative gameplay behaviours and with no logic at all, linking that to the TP to justify his view that the TP ruined the game. > > This is the same guy that claims the gemstore "takes away fun" doing the same thing; allusions to some the idea that GW2 has no fun or challenges. Again, getting rid of the GS wouldn't 'add' fun or challenge to the game either. Same approach, same lack of explanation. The best part is that the OP just throws the idea out and retreats from the thread without further contribution or discussion. > > Reality check for the OP: GS isn't going away, TP isn't going away either. I wouldnt mind if it was easier to go out and gather whatever I needed to craft my armor. And though there are ways to do so if you know where to look, it still takes a lot more time then simply join some farm and sell the loot. On the TP. And then buy the blood or totems or whatever you need. On the TP. It isnt anything wrong with TP, it is how more or less everything is supposed to go through gold first. I dont think there is a right or a wrong way to it, different people like different things and it is what it is. I would like if the TP wasnt so heavily intergrated (in lack of a better word) in everything, but I rather keep it like it is if the alternative is no TP. ESO is without a TP, and I just dont bother with buying and selling there. But I dont need to, as I have been able to craft whatever I want because I can find most of what I need out in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decado.9304 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Hell no, selling in GW1 was time consuming and cities were just mass spamathons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I think most people who played GW1 or any other MMO like of old has these nostalgic memories of trading, be it getting really good deals, making a friend, or what have you. But let's be honest, those were incredible rare, compared to the times you sit around for hours, bored out of your mind, spamming chat as fast as the filters allows with your little list of things to sell that day, however much fits into a message. It was dreadful and ate up entire days, which you just spend playing in GW2 instead, only stopping a moment to drop something into the AH. As much as I get why some people are into trading websites and the thrill of screwing others over who have less understanding of the value of things, I'm really glad I don't have to deal with that timewaster in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Personally, I enjoy free markets and merching since you can generally sell items to rushed buyers for a premium. But I could see how people prefer the trading post, which streamlines the service and ultimately brings prices down due to accessability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"JoeytheHutt.1742" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > > @"Hashberry.4510" said: > > > > This is nuts. > > > > > > It's really not. Necessity promotes bonds and social interactions. I made a lot of friends in GW1 because they were regular sellers or buyers of stuff I was interested in, so keeping touch was beneficial for both of us and gave a reason to talk on a regular basis. How many friends have you made on the Trading Post? > > > > > > Same reason why a lot of WoW players think the community died after the dungeon finder was added - no longer did you need to find a group, they put you in one at the press of a button and then everyone went their own way after the run was done. People no longer talked in dungeons and no longer felt the need to keep in touch with previous teammates because finding new ones was so easy. > > > > > > The more QoL an MMO has, the more it loses its community aspect. GW2 has the most QoL = least social MMO. > > > > If GW2 was missing ways that promote bonds and social interactions, then their might be some validity of creating those things through buying/selling by removing or changing the TP. There is no lack of that though. > > > > > @"JoeytheHutt.1742" said: > > > The way gw2's economy works, I think OP has a point. Because in this game, you dont farm directly for stuff, you farm for gold to buy whatever stuff you need from the TP. So you dont need to farm around the world in different places, you farm the most profitable ones. > > > I wouldnt blame the TP, its more about how its set up to make buying gems more attractive so Anet can make more money. > > > > Not sure the OP has any point; he says we should do something about the TP, then makes some allusion to farming different zones and people mass farming Istan. Frankly, getting rid of the TP wouldn't change either of those things; seems to me he's just fishing for negative gameplay behaviours and with no logic at all, linking that to the TP to justify his view that the TP ruined the game. > > > > This is the same guy that claims the gemstore "takes away fun" doing the same thing; allusions to some the idea that GW2 has no fun or challenges. Again, getting rid of the GS wouldn't 'add' fun or challenge to the game either. Same approach, same lack of explanation. The best part is that the OP just throws the idea out and retreats from the thread without further contribution or discussion. > > > > Reality check for the OP: GS isn't going away, TP isn't going away either. > > I wouldnt mind if it was easier to go out and gather whatever I needed to craft my armor. And though there are ways to do so if you know where to look, it still takes a lot more time then simply join some farm and sell the loot. On the TP. And then buy the blood or totems or whatever you need. On the TP. > It isnt anything wrong with TP, it is how more or less everything is supposed to go through gold first. > I dont think there is a right or a wrong way to it, different people like different things and it is what it is. > I would like if the TP wasnt so heavily intergrated (in lack of a better word) in everything, but I rather keep it like it is if the alternative is no TP. > ESO is without a TP, and I just dont bother with buying and selling there. But I dont need to, as I have been able to craft whatever I want because I can find most of what I need out in the world. > Sure, I won't argue with what you would want. Mp point is that the OP seems to be pushing an agenda on established elements of the game based on nonsensical relationships. I mean ... does anyone honestly understand why getting rid of the TP would cause people to farm in zones that they aren't already doing it? That somehow, mass farming in Istan would disappear if the TP were gone? I don't see it. The only thing that would happen if the TP didn't exist would be that people would resort to the generation 1 MMO approach to selling stuff ... spamming OOC and forum posts. I think most people don't find value in 'playing' the game like that. For some reason the OP thinks it's a good idea to take a few steps back in MMO evolution, simply because of nostalgia. Anyone that has experienced real generation 1 MMO buying/selling without a market-like structure knows why it's lunacy to push to remove the TP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"Decado.9304" said: > Hell no, selling in GW1 was time consuming and cities were just mass spamathons Also a lot of mid-tier weapons were effectively much rarer than the actual rare ones because no one was farming them. And then there's the whole "using a crafting material as currency", where naked greed ruined the price of ectoplasm for people who actually wanted to _use_ it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalimae.3406 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 The GW1 trade system was the wooooorst. I hated it with the passion of a thousand suns cause unless you were willing to waste a lot of time researching market prices and standing around shouting your offers into the void there was no way to actually turn your valuables into platinum. I still have some rares sitting in my Xunlai chest that I just couldn't sell back in the day but were too valuable (at least in theory cause if there's no buyer what value does it have anyway??) to just sell to the vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 GW1 has the by far worst trade system I've ever seen in an online game. First, it doesn't allow posting of items for later, you have to be there, spamming chat, in order to sell/buy. As if players don't have anything better to do with their time in-game. In other games with direct trading that I've played, they have global trade chat, something else missing from GW1. You need to be online, waste your time, stay on the same map, in order to sell/buy. The worst system I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpelion.4562 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 There was no market in GW1. There were literally thousands of submarkets (the players) that did not have the ability to communicate with each other which meant that both buyers and sellers were always unaware of what should be charged for anything. It was a paradise for scammers, rip-off schemes, and manipulators. That anyone would ask for a return to that is highly suspect to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias.9657 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Spamadan was awesome because I bartered so many great deals. Trading was a game in itself, reminded me a lot of Diablo 2 trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Is there any way to determine what the daily turn over , ie value of all goods bought and sold on the TP is ? Be interesting to know as it would give some idea of the size of the GW2 economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > Is there any way to determine what the daily turn over , ie value of all goods bought and sold on the TP is ? > Be interesting to know as it would give some idea of the size of the GW2 economy. > The API will tell us how many items are listed for sale, how many offers made. GW2BLTC assumes (in its graphing) that when buy offers & sell offers disappear together that those represent actual trades. The API itself doesn't save that data. This approximation works well for gear, which normally isn't traded quickly. It's almost certainly inaccurate for the purposes of your question in tracking commodities, such as ecto and other mats. (There used to a website that used the TP directly to track ecto prices and made a little graphic to show if the price was trending up or down. It was amazing how quickly it moved... and even that wasn't 100% accurate.) tl;dr someone like @"Silveress.5197" could probably whip together an approximation that would represent a lower bound (i.e. a minimum value of all goods bought|sold). My guess is that it could miss the mark by a lot, maybe even an order of magnitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Wave2:Selling Saradomin Legs! 30k gp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenstone.6891 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Had this topic come up within the first year of launch, I would be right there with you. However, I disagree with you now. I can get what I need, sell what I need, wham bam thank you ma'am.... no waiting around to find the right deal, no potential for scamming or thievery on a player level, the market decides the value, supply and demand. Once I figured it out, I have made a nice profit, to assist me in my adventuring endeavors. Now the idea of updating mats in items, sure I could get behind that. Sorry, don't need a reason to farm zones, unless I want too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Pudding.3764 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870 Interesting article from another developer trying to work things through about how easy to make it to trade. Also explains why almost all loot in gw2 with its efficient trading post is 2 blues and a green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeivu.3615 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I totally loved sitting in a LA/Spamadon and spamming shit over and over again for hours hoping to find that one buyer/seller for an item, searching 3rd party forums to find updated price guides from the last three months, and to watch to make sure the other user isn't trying to ducking scam me with an item look-a-like. No, No, No, NO! The TP is the best and most convenient method of trade and actually acts as a goldsink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylden Ar.3724 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > Gw1 had the market right ! No, no it did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I like the gw1 market, tho i dont really agree that the tp did anything bad for gw2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 people got scammed. yes i totally want to go through the hell of sitting and hoping. This has got to be a troll thread. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 GW1 Days: Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No! Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No! Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No! Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No! GW2 Days: Anet: Here. We have an Auction House now. Enjoy! Players: Please remove the Auction house!: Anet: WTH? Anyways: AH should stay. But direct player-to-player trade would be welcome, but as addition and not as replacement for the AH for players who want to do tax-free trade at the cost of having to find buyers/sellers themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFishBob.6518 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 GW1 market sounds horrible. Even Korean developed free to play MMORPGs had the option to set up a vendor and Diablo II let you make an instance with a name to sell or trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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