Why should I pay for the story, when I already have bought both expansions?

[Cerioth.7062]

>Calls people salty

>Writes a long salty post

 

*slow clap*

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > >But the worst of it is for new players. They buy the game with expansions and then find out they have to spend even more for stuff that >normally you'd expect to be part of the expansions.

> > > >

> > > > What do you mean?

> > > > Was living world in the description box of the expansions page? I dont recall seeing it there, but apparantly since you expected LS to be part of the expansions, it must’ve been advertised somewhere.

> > >

> > > You need to take your GW2 blinders off and look around. It's normal for MMOs to have content updates and they're either paid as part of expansions, part of sub payment or as separate DLC. GW2 does it halfway. It charges some customers and some customers not. The difference? You were there are the right time and if you took a break or were not a customer back then because you didn't know about the game then that's the criteria for being charged after the fact.

> >

> > The real difference?

> > If you're an active player or not.

> > Active players are keeping the game alive by playing and using the gemstore.

> > Players who aren't playing, aren't helping keeping the game alive.

> > Youre not being charged for being inactive.

> > Youre being rewarded for being active.

> >

> > That's a misconception i see thrown around a lot

> >

> > And even if you're taking a break, if you can't take 2 minutes out of your life every 2-3 months to log in, you're not passing the bar of having put in the minimal effort you be called a 'gw2 player'

>

> How active of a player are you when, as people suggest, you just log in once and get it for free and log out again? It's a strange requirement to get something for free really. It's just strange.

 

Not really, do you have a better gauge to seperate active players from inactive ones other than logging in? Having a minimal average login-ratio? Earning x AP per month? How else would you gauge you the activeness of a player. Sure its not optimal, but i dont see you bringing up alternatives.

 

> And just because you see it as a reward for being active doesn't mean you're right.

 

It’s _literally_ their stance on the subject. I dont see how I can be wrong when its what _they’re_ saying

 

>Normally when something comes out it has a price and then later the price goes down or it becomes free. This is the only game that has an element that does this backwards.

 

Backwards? I fail to see your corrolation. The core game is free with every expansion, whch in turn 30-50% discounts several times a year.

 

 

>People should be informed of this when they buy the game, because when people buy HoT and/or PoF it's a normal expectation that you get all the zones and story that comes with it. That's not the case here so people should be informed and should be offered packages that do include all of that.

 

Which is why i asked where on the page of the expansions the buyers were ill informed, or incomplete explanations were given. When you’re buying the game there’s a nice list of all it contains, nothing mre, nothing less. Just like _literally every other product ever sold_?

 

>Bu ArenaNet just quietly lets it be in the background so that when you've bought the expansions you're confronted with this after you already committed money to the game and therefore are more likely to spend again. If that wasn't they case, then why not offer the LS chapters as part of the deluxe version or some package deal you can buy? No, this is just a weird thing they do and that's why these threads pop up every so often because it's not normal and they should do better in this.

 

I do agree its weird they dont sell LS bundles, with their expansions, but thats probably because the LS content still has to be developed.

 

Edit: to add, most people who buy the deluxe version are active players and will not have any trouble (let alone know about the LS regulations) to log in for the 3 month period in which its given for free, even if they’re inactive at that time,

 

>

> Just my view of course but I do not agree with you at all.

 

Thats good :)

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> And I'm just talking about adjusting the business model, not changing it. No need to go full binary on that. I hate it when people get so black and white when there is so much room in between two extremes. It's not this or something completely different.

 

Unfortunately 99% of all complaint threads are not about adjusting the business model fairly (aka for developer and consumer). Did you by any chance read people's reaction to suggestions like a subscription or always to pay for DLC in this very thread?

 

Productive changes are not binary true, most demands from players unfortunately are, or did I miss a suggestion made how the lost revenue could be made up which every one is excited about?

[Dami.5046]

Never expect gaming to be free or handed to you. If you want GW2 to continue then it needs support.

End.

 

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The biggest issue is that the website and the expansions page doesn't mention anything about Living World and having to pay for that content too if you want everything the expansion provides. When I first started the game it was advertised as buying the "expansion and all related content". Finding out I needed to buy the living world chapters of the current season the game is on felt incredibly deceptive. Buying Season 2 was fine since I missed it entirely. But getting HoT then seeing I need the first 3 LW chapters I missed really got me.

 

When I got to the end of Personal Story I was really shocked with the ending. Hated it. If it wasn't for buying HoT before getting there I would have quit. I bought the thing, I might as well try it before asking for my money back. Finding out about S1 not being playable was more amusing about Anet's lack of foresight, so I watched a vid on it. I bought S2 to experience that before touching HoT. Getting into HoT I realized I could have earned valuable experience in Central Tyria from unlocking Masteries first. Further experiencing how uninformative Anet is in general about features and content. But the content was great and hooked me.

 

Then, finally, finishing HoT and excited for S3 to find out I need to buy those. I would have quit so many times, but after buying HoT, S2 and investing so much time on HoT masteries, I didn't feel like disputing all those individual purchases with the bank. Not to mention using Gem cards with cash to get S2 so that would have been a loss I can't get back. Such a burn to find out only that far what I thought I was buying with HoT, completely misinformed me and my friends.

 

My point, Anet is the worst with words from describing what is available in content purchases, all the way to hyping upcoming features and game play with words that don't mean how they're using them (Sun's Refuge). All my problems with this game (other than Personal Story's ending) is entirely things that are outside of the game itself. Solely on everyone at Anet who is responsible for website information and the scripts for their Youtube hype videos.

 

It makes sense why they need to hire outside writers for the story and dialogue. Its at a point that it either sounds like they're genuinely bad at being precise with word choice or they're intentionally being deceptive. The ladder sounds too malicious though, considering how great the game is and how Anet handles serious concerns in the community. I just wish Anet would just reevaluate their word choice and presentation when it comes to the website and when they're pitching content to the players.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > is nice for those who play regularly (even as little as 1-2 weeks, 3-4x per year)

>

> Has little to do with how often you play, but only with when you started to play. Because, as already said, there is zero point into playing story starting LW4, omitting previous chapters, and at current price of 50$ very few will buy the previous chapters, at least in countries like mine. So, effectively, the only affordable way for people from around there to play it will be to somehow gather enough gold to buy 3400 gems - and, again, very few will be grinding day and night just to see the story. So, in the end, that policy only makes any sense if you start to play shortly after release, for quite a lot of people. Very questionable way to do business, at best.

On the other hand you still come ahead compared to those that played from the beginning, because those players had to pay full price not only for both expacs, but also for core (which wasn't free originally). Basically, anyone that paid for core has already paid more than Anet asks you to pay for LS.

 

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> If the monthly salary is 150 -200 euro, how the kitten are you even able to make a comment here?

>

> Pc + Internet costs etc.

>

> Im actually curious.

Local costs are probably scaled to local earnings. Besides, US Internet costs are really, really bad (especially compared to the connection quality, which also isn't all that good from what i hear).

Where i live you can get a good, cheap internet options at below 5 USD monthly. I'm paying around below 15 USD, but that's for high quality cable connection.

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

The model makes sense for people who bought the game at release but less so for those who bought it after some episodes have been released. I guess that is balanced out by assuming that most of the people who buy later bought it while the game was on sale and the fact that it is possible to buy the episodes with gold via the exchange.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

 

> My point, Anet is the worst with words from describing what is available in content purchases, all the way to hyping upcoming features and game play with words that don't mean how they're using them (Sun's Refuge). All my problems with this game (other than Personal Story's ending) is entirely things that are outside of the game itself. Solely on everyone at Anet who is responsible for website information and the scripts for their Youtube hype videos.

>

> It makes sense why they need to hire outside writers for the story and dialogue. Its at a point that it either sounds like they're genuinely bad at being precise with word choice or they're intentionally being deceptive. The ladder sounds too malicious though, considering how great the game is and how Anet handles serious concerns in the community. I just wish Anet would just reevaluate their word choice and presentation when it comes to the website and when they're pitching content to the players.

 

In my experience with Anet, if there's ever any doubt between whether they are A. hiding something or B. just cant be bothered to explain, it's pretty reliably option B. Seriously, if it weren't for the wiki, nobody would know how to do anything in this game.

[Randulf.7614]

Anet are a business and they're two primary functions are entertainment and to make money - almost always from those with disposable income. If people can't afford to splash out, they aren't likely to be Anets primary customer and they wont adjust their model to suit when the current system is working so well (and from all accounts, it is and a few others MMO's have been emulating it).

 

It's not likely to be perceived fair and to be honest and it's not really a system I am a huge fan of because it is a barrier for me to recommend the game to friends. But those I would recommend to probably wouldn't splash out on micro transactions or stick long term to the game anyway, so it's very little loss to them ultimately (and I can't claim to know of a better solution either). The last friend i brought into to the game though the game ended at the Personal Story and didn't understand why they'd be paying for any further story no matter how I explained it. In the end, he didn't really get it and I just said this game wasn't for them and they went back to other stuff.

 

An improvement in explaining that expansions and Living World are separate purchases would help.

[Warlord.9082]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> For me I'm content paying a higher price on expansions.. PoF was significantly under priced imo..

 

I disagree. I think the price point of PoF is perfectly normal for an expansion. I certainly am not willing to pay more for it.

 

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> and i've often used PoF's price point as a reference to criticize the 2000 gem mount skins which are around the same price range in cash..

 

Agreed. Skins are ridiculously expensive.

 

As for a reply to the actual post: I agree with you. Having to pay for something that is supposed to be free (which it is in the first 3 months) it is strange (to say the least) that you are punished by having to pay for content that is supposed to come as a part of the expansion just because you haven't logged in for a while. That feels wrong.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Warlord.9082" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > For me I'm content paying a higher price on expansions.. PoF was significantly under priced imo..

>

> I disagree. I think the price point of PoF is perfectly normal for an expansion. I certainly am not willing to pay more for it.

>

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > and i've often used PoF's price point as a reference to criticize the 2000 gem mount skins which are around the same price range in cash..

>

> Agreed. Skins are ridiculously expensive.

>

> As for a reply to the actual post: I agree with you. Having to pay for something that is supposed to be free (which it is in the first 3 months) it is strange (to say the least) that you are punished by having to pay for content that is supposed to come as a part of the expansion just because you haven't logged in for a while. That feels wrong.

 

Its not coming with the expansion nor is it supposed to be free tho, its coming out during the expansion continuing the story into the next expansion box.

Its free for exisiting costumers that log on since they may buy something from the store while they are playing.

Even if they dont buy anything they may convert their gold to gems since gold devalue but gems dont, that make someone else buy gems with real cash to convert to gold since they need gold dont have time and now got more gold for their gems.

[Warlord.9082]

I didn't say it comes with the expansion. I said it is part of it. You can't play living world season 4 for example if you do not own PoF. It is quite definitely a part of it and you are punished for taking a break. Spending occurs due to fresh content for the player, not due to fresh content for the game.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Warlord.9082" said:

> I didn't say it comes with the expansion. I said it is part of it. You can't play living world season 4 for example if you do not own PoF. It is quite definitely a part of it and you are punished for taking a break. Spending occurs due to fresh content for the player, not due to fresh content for the game.

 

So much wrong, where to start:

- Living World is not part of an expansion. Access is gated behind it. What's the difference? You unlock living world content even if you do NOT own the expansion. You merely can not access it

- you are not being punished for not logging in, you are being rewarded for logging in. What's the difference? Simple: Living World Content episodes cost 200 gems, when you log in while they are released, you get them for free as a thank you. If you do not log in, you do not get them. You are not forced to buy them and concurrent episodes do not require previous ones to unlock.

 

The devil is in the details and terminology should be used accordingly based on those details.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Aryan Arlande.6184" said:

> Op is right

> Purchasing GW2 gives you a hollow shell of the game, and content is extra billed.

> Imho it's the only game acting this way.

> Content doubles the purchasing-price of the game

 

Ff14 you pay for expacs and sub fee, in Eso u pay for expacs and sub fee or dlc, in wow u pay for expacs and sub fee.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> So much wrong, where to start:

> - Living World is not part of an expansion. Access is gated behind it. What's the difference? You unlock living world content even if you do NOT own the expansion. You merely can not access it

 

Being gated behind an expansion justifies it enough as being part of the expansion. And they don't inform you online or in the store that if you want all the content, you need to buy all the Living World chapters on top of the expansions. So its no longer a $50 price entry for full content. Its a $100 entry fee.

[Cyninja.2954]

 

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > So much wrong, where to start:

> > - Living World is not part of an expansion. Access is gated behind it. What's the difference? You unlock living world content even if you do NOT own the expansion. You merely can not access it

>

> Being gated behind an expansion justifies it enough as being part of the expansion. And they don't inform you online or in the store that if you want all the content, you need to buy all the Living World chapters on top of the expansions.

 

Yes, they could be clearer on the fact that there is Living World Episodes or something similar to DLC. Then again, you get exactly what you payed for since no where are you guaranteed Living World Episodes. Some very basic research would clear this up.

 

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> So its no longer a $50 price entry for full content. Its a $100 entry fee.

 

Only if you decide to purchase the gems with money and not gold. That option alone (and the gem exchange possibility) is a huge factor why this content will never be made free. As it turns out, you can farm the gold and convert that to gems. In very low income countries (as in TCs case) this could even come out to more gems/hour than buying gems with money.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dajas.4715" said:

> Farm gold convert to gems. Its what I did and it doesn't take to long.

 

I generally agree with the OP. While I have never paid for a LW episode, bringing RL friends into the game is always kind of daunting because first thing they want to do is play the story. And when they finish it S1 isn't there, and they have to throw gems at the cash shop to play Season 2.

 

Still this suggestion isn't too grueling but having to pay for core story doesn't feel good.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> - you are not being punished for not logging in, you are being rewarded for logging in. What's the difference? Simple: Living World Content episodes cost 200 gems, when you log in while they are released, you get them for free as a thank you. If you do not log in, you do not get them. You are not forced to buy them and concurrent episodes do not require previous ones to unlock.

 

I have to disagree with you on that.. if you want continuity in Gw2's storyline you are forced to buy these episodes..

Sure you don't technically need episode 4 to play episode 5 but if you want to know what the hell happened between episode 3 and 5 you won't have a choice but to buy episode 4.

 

Can you imagine how annoyed someone would be if they last played episode 4 of this living world and went straight to episode 6 because they missed an episode and thought ahh well no big deal, i'm sure I didn't miss too much..

Considering the new maps and rewards etc often require you to play the first story chapter as well I'm going to have to say that for the sake of continuity.. you definitely have to invest in any missed episodes.

Considering how many people play them as they come out as well I don't believe that the number of players who do miss them is that big tbh..

So if the vast majority of players are getting these episodes for free it does feel like those who aren't are kinda being punished.. specially newer players who have a lot to catch up on.. and a pretty significant amount of money to invest if they do, which is where I can see a lot of newer people being turned off the game or at least everything past the end of the Personal Story.

That's why I think the living world seasons should be bundled into the more expensive expansion versions.

Season 2 with HoT and season 3 with PoF specifically and 4 and 5 with the next one.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > - you are not being punished for not logging in, you are being rewarded for logging in. What's the difference? Simple: Living World Content episodes cost 200 gems, when you log in while they are released, you get them for free as a thank you. If you do not log in, you do not get them. You are not forced to buy them and concurrent episodes do not require previous ones to unlock.

>

> I have to disagree with you on that.. if you want continuity in Gw2's storyline you are forced to buy these episodes..

> Sure you don't technically need episode 4 to play episode 5 but if you want to know what the hell happened between episode 3 and 5 you won't have a choice but to buy episode 4.

>

> Can you imagine how annoyed someone would be if they last played episode 4 of this living world and went straight to episode 6 because they missed an episode and thought ahh well no big deal, i'm sure I didn't miss too much..

> Considering the new maps and rewards etc often require you to play the first story chapter as well I'm going to have to say that for the sake of continuity.. you definitely have to invest in any missed episodes.

> Considering how many people play them as they come out as well I don't believe that the number of players who do miss them is that big tbh..

> So if the vast majority of players are getting these episodes for free it does feel like those who aren't are kinda being punished.. specially newer players who have a lot to catch up on.. and a pretty significant amount of money to invest if they do, which is where I can see a lot of newer people being turned off the game or at least everything past the end of the Personal Story.

> That's why I think the living world seasons should be bundled into the more expensive expansion versions.

> Season 2 with HoT and season 3 with PoF specifically and 4 and 5 with the next one.

 

That's just bundling cost (unless you also expect the total cost to be less) and taking away the opportunity for people who are not interested in the Living World to not purchase them.

 

I doubt players are being turned off the game from lack of Living World Episodes. I doubt most players even know about Living World Episodes until they are quite a bit in.

[Skotlex.7580]

On the other hand, if ANet made it clear you need to buy the living story chapters to complete the story, eventually we would have a thread here stating that OP felt scammed into paying for content they could have had acquired for free in game using gold. :)

[kasoki.5180]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

 

> The real difference?

> If you're an active player or not.

> Active players are keeping the game alive by playing and using the gemstore.

> Players who aren't playing, aren't helping keeping the game alive.

> Youre not being charged for being inactive.

> Youre being rewarded for being active.

>

> That's a misconception i see thrown around a lot

>

> And even if you're taking a break, if you can't take 2 minutes out of your life every 2-3 months to log in, you're not passing the bar of having put in the minimal effort you be called a 'gw2 player'

 

You are basically showing a large middle finger to new and returning players with this kind of attitude. Do you honestly not see whats wrong with this attitude of veteran elitism.

 

This game can barely get any new players. We get some fresh blood when an asian MMO fails but thats it.

But sure. lets put barriers for new players because up until this point they have never helped keeping the game alive.

 

Do you realize how auto destructive for a game is this idea that players who arent playing should be ignored? Or new and returning players. Game cant function without getting steady supply of new players.

 

At this point World of Warcraft has more accessible story than Guild Wars 2. That speaks volumes.

 

Also, i have never in my life used a gemstore. Never will. Unlike new player who needs to actually buy Living World Seasons. By your own logic, new and (forcefully) spending player should be rewarded more than me who got his LWS simply by logging in.

 

On another topic, argument about spending gold to buy stories has a serious fault. Unless you have LWS your main source of serious gold needed for LW is going to be T4 fractals. If you are someone new/returning who is frustrated that you have to grind to unlock story, you probably wont play this game long enough to get to T4 fracs, or any other content that gives you substantial amount of gold. Locking the story behind end game grind or real life money is simply not that appealing to people when there are so many games on the market nowdays.

 

> @"zealex.9410" said:

 

> Ff14 you pay for expacs and sub fee, in Eso u pay for expacs and sub fee or dlc, in wow u pay for expacs and sub fee.

 

If I'm not mistaken, all new content is free if you are subscriber in ESO. And in WoW all the previous expansion are free. You only need to purchase the most recent.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You know, it's not necessary to buy every past Living World Season Episode all at once. Most of us spent 1-3 (average) months playing an Episode and/or its accompanying map. If new/returning players commit 1 month to each Episode or two, it would only cost them $2.50/5.00 (or 60-120 Gold, of which 60 Gold is given free for Dailies) a month, and would soon catch up to everyone else. That doesn't seem like a horrendous cash/Gold burden and allows time for Achievements, and the like.

 

I don't really understand the need to barrel through the story all at once; it's not the model, and the 'Vets' didn't do it; so why must new/returning players?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> You know, it's not necessary to buy every past Living World Season Episode all at once. Most of us spent 1-3 (average) months playing an Episode and/or its accompanying map. If new/returning players commit 1 month to each Episode or two, it would only cost them $2.50/5.00 (or 60-120 Gold, of which 60 Gold is given free for Dailies) a month, and would soon catch up to everyone else. That doesn't seem like a horrendous cash/Gold burden and allows time for Achievements, and the like.

>

> I don't really understand the need to barrel through the story all at once; it's not the model, and the 'Vets' didn't do it; so why must new/returning players?

 

Ironically, the cost savings inherent to bundling an entire season at a reduced cost plays a role in the psychology. People tend to love bargains, so the reduced cost will appeal. At the same time, getting the reduced cost means a larger one-time expenditure. And, how many "vets" would have hurled through all of the episodes if they'd had the option?

[Randulf.7614]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > You know, it's not necessary to buy every past Living World Season Episode all at once. Most of us spent 1-3 (average) months playing an Episode and/or its accompanying map. If new/returning players commit 1 month to each Episode or two, it would only cost them $2.50/5.00 (or 60-120 Gold, of which 60 Gold is given free for Dailies) a month, and would soon catch up to everyone else. That doesn't seem like a horrendous cash/Gold burden and allows time for Achievements, and the like.

> >

> > I don't really understand the need to barrel through the story all at once; it's not the model, and the 'Vets' didn't do it; so why must new/returning players?

>

> Ironically, the cost savings inherent to bundling an entire season at a reduced cost plays a role in the psychology. People tend to love bargains, so the reduced cost will appeal. At the same time, getting the reduced cost means a larger one-time expenditure. And, ow many "vets" would have hurled through all of the episodes if they'd had the option?

 

Probably quite a lot, given how quickly many get through a new expansion or episode. In the defence of new or returning players, it is only natural to want to blast through and catch up, esp in a day and age where there are so many other things commanding our attention.

 

So yeah, i fully get why people would want to barrel through it

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

>

> > The real difference?

> > If you're an active player or not.

> > Active players are keeping the game alive by playing and using the gemstore.

> > Players who aren't playing, aren't helping keeping the game alive.

> > Youre not being charged for being inactive.

> > Youre being rewarded for being active.

> >

> > That's a misconception i see thrown around a lot

> >

> > And even if you're taking a break, if you can't take 2 minutes out of your life every 2-3 months to log in, you're not passing the bar of having put in the minimal effort you be called a 'gw2 player'

>

> You are basically showing a large middle finger to new and returning players with this kind of attitude. Do you honestly not see whats wrong with this attitude of veteran elitism.

>

> This game can barely get any new players. We get some fresh blood when an asian MMO fails but thats it.

> But sure. lets put barriers for new players because up until this point they have never helped keeping the game alive.

>

> Do you realize how auto destructive for a game is this idea that players who arent playing should be ignored? Or new and returning players. Game cant function without getting steady supply of new players.

>

> At this point World of Warcraft has more accessible story than Guild Wars 2. That speaks volumes.

>

> Also, i have never in my life used a gemstore. Never will. Unlike new player who needs to actually buy Living World Seasons. By your own logic, new and (forcefully) spending player should be rewarded more than me who got his LWS simply by logging in.

>

> On another topic, argument about spending gold to buy stories has a serious fault. Unless you have LWS your main source of serious gold needed for LW is going to be T4 fractals. If you are someone new/returning who is frustrated that you have to grind to unlock story, you probably wont play this game long enough to get to T4 fracs, or any other content that gives you substantial amount of gold. Locking the story behind end game grind or real life money is simply not that appealing to people when there are so many games on the market nowdays.

>

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

>

> > Ff14 you pay for expacs and sub fee, in Eso u pay for expacs and sub fee or dlc, in wow u pay for expacs and sub fee.

>

> If I'm not mistaken, all new content is free if you are subscriber in ESO. And in WoW all the previous expansion are free. You only need to purchase the most recent.

 

I'm sorry, but you are comparing subscription based monetization models with non-subscription based models. If people spent 5-10$ per month on gems in this game, none of the issues discussed here would be present. Most do not though, yet complain that content is not free.

 

Those expansions in ESO are not free. They literally cost you the subscription.

 

In WoW all previous expansions are certainly not free. They are at best heavily discounted. Once again, payed for by the subscription fee.