Add dificulty options to every instanced content?

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > @"Evolving Minotaur.5871" said:

> > > I don't think raids should be subject to this at all. Dungeons could have hard, medium and soft but no real issue if they don't just better for training people. Fractals are already progressively harder as you beat them and you can step back a few levels if you just want to goof around. DLs are kind of already there.

> > > .

> > > The place I want levels is story instances that have multiple achievements bundled with them. I still haven't got my Luminescent armor yet because I can't be bothered repeating an instance that I finished, but failed one or more of the side quests. All these side achievements are for story flavour. It's pretty hard to absorb the story if you are really focusing on your gaming. Side quests should be easy fights but harder puzzles. Time shouldn't be a factor unless it is the only plot point for the achievement (self destruct in 2 min etc.)

> > > .

> > > Most of the newer story instances are fine but there are some in season 2 that are exciting to fight your way through once, but get boring doing it over and over. All the story instances should be slightly more difficult the first time then much easier to repeat for story flavour. But everyone has their preferences so having a difficulty selector is the best way to go.

> > > .

> > > I am not sure why people are saying no to this. We all know that hard mode will award more loot.

> >

> > People are saying no because the biggest issue which plagued the game has been the slow speed of updates. If you want them to implement 4 tiers of difficulty then you better expect some delays which I don't think many people will want. Until they show that they can release fun, repeatable and challenging content in a regular and consistent basis with good rewards, I am going to vote no.

>

> I think people will accept delays if the content is worthwhile. What made the update speed so atrocious was that not only did we have to wait months for the content, but the content itself was meh and it didn't last the length of time between updates.

 

Sure, the issue is that until the content is worthwhile I don't care for any consideration on tacking on difficulty options. If they can fix the content release schedule first then maybe we can think about this sort of options later.

[otto.5684]

This typically does not end well. While people think this will be fun and more involved content. More specifically more involved mechanics, like breaking CC bars, or interrupting mobs. What it ends up is instead of the mobs doing 2K damage per hit they end up doing 10K damage per hit. And on the highest difficulty, it is not a question of skill level, but either how to cheese off mechanics or trying to exploit the AI (or both). And it typically limit you to high sustain builds or builds with pets to soak damage. Some classes will not be able to do the more difficult content at all.

 

In addition, very rarely are the rewards upped in correlation to the increased difficulty, if at all.

 

And overall, I do think story content is difficult enough that you need to understand basic game mechanics. Which is more than I see than most MMOs/ARPGs. As for group content, it there is already difficulty in Fractal and raids are meant for more experienced players to begin with. But they could add more higher raid difficulty with higher rewards.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"neoteo.3975" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Some instances may be considered 'easy' now, some of average difficulty, and some more challenging.

> > In other words, one size does _not_ fit all.

>

> That is why having modes helps to fit more.

>

> Gw1 did that since it was very instanced.

 

You stated every instance was already on 'easy' mode, and your suggestion is to make them more difficult.

I don't agree.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> I think people will accept delays if the content is worthwhile.

 

People don't accept the current delays. What do you think ANet can possibly do so much better that it will change that?

 

> What made the update speed so atrocious was that not only did we have to wait months for the content, but the content itself was meh and it didn't last the length of time between updates.

And you think that taking twice as long will mean they can deliver substantially more than 2x content?

 

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Yes, on one condition: the rewards should be the same no matter what difficulty you choose.

>

> I imagine that might be controversial as I know for many people harder difficulty and increased rewards go hand in hand in MMOs, but IMO it should be done like single-player games where you pick higher difficulties for no other reason than because you want to do it. Maybe there could be a (low AP) achievement for doing the highest difficulty, but no increased drop rates or anything like that. Otherwise it's just pressuring everyone to always pick the highest difficulty and then you lose the benefit of giving options.

>

> Under those conditions I like the idea. If I want to rush through the story to remind myself how a particular instance goes I can do it on easy mode, or if I'm having an off-day and just want a relaxed run. And if I feel like a challenge or more variety I can pick a higher difficulty to try.

 

I disagree, primarily because a harder difficulty can often be more time consuming and so result in less rewards than a lower difficulty setting.

 

That said, I prefer that a higher difficulty have more of the same rewards as lower difficulty rather than unique rewards.

 

 

To the OP, I think that gw1's approach of two difficulty settings would be sufficient.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > I think people will accept delays if the content is worthwhile.

>

> People don't accept the current delays. What do you think ANet can possibly do so much better that it will change that?

>

> > What made the update speed so atrocious was that not only did we have to wait months for the content, but the content itself was meh and it didn't last the length of time between updates.

> And you think that taking twice as long will mean they can deliver substantially more than 2x content?

>

>

 

I don't accept the current delays either. I'm just as unhappy with them as anyone else.

 

All I'm implying is that they need to do *something* and honestly this would all be made better if they just communicated with the community in a much more productive and effective way. Also more frequently. They need to take some pages out of Digital Extreme's book (Developers of Warframe) and start having more weekly informative devstreams like they do. The way that DE does it has not hindered them or hurt them in any way if you see the direction Warframe has gone, and the future it has and the community honestly seems super appreciative for their transparency and communication on the current state of the game and where it is going. Which, honestly, difficulty scaling is also something Warframe players have been asking for since its not a terribly challenging game especially when you have the right builds and Digital Extremes has *communicated* to their players that they have been looking into it and are working on solutions and have even teased information about adding difficulty scaling to missions that players can select before starting.

 

Currently we have *no* idea as to what Anets plans are other than "Eyyyy Season 5!" and "Eyyyy Alliance system for WvW!" or "Eyyyy swiss style tournaments for sPvP!" Other than that we got *nothing*. Which I mean legitimately what I just listed there...*thats everything we know* about what the future holds for this game. Barely any details, nothing outside of those "projects" either. Nothing in regards to class balance for PvP or PvE, future events like the meta and world boss ones we had, nothing about QoL improvements to the game that are sorely needed in multiple areas (well okay the template system got teased a while ago but he have no updates on that and thats also the only thing), nothing about what they are doing or could do for dead content like Dungeons or even just older LW maps that don't have meta events that can be farmed for profit.

 

As much as Anet hasn't shown that they can maintain a timely update schedule, which they seem to be *slightly* improving but as with many other things with GW2 right now....thats a *low* bar, it still doesn't hurt to make them aware of things that can be done in the future and maybe even give them the idea to work on it or look into it and then, as they should, *communicate* with the community about it.

[InStars.5643]

We still don't have build templates.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Evolving Minotaur.5871" said:

> I am not sure why people are saying no to this. We all know that hard mode will award more loot.

This is a key problem of the whole concept of difficulty options. Many people claim they want more challenging content, while what they really want is more loot, to differentiate themselves from the "filthy casuals".

 

This game however doesn't work that way. The devs have gone to some length to create a loot system and economy that rewards you for playing, no matter when or where. These rewards are brought in line in a way that getting ahead of others by (excessive) farming or by playing specific, especially rewarding content (e.g. fractal dailies) has a very strong cap on how many rewards you can get in relation to your everyday casual open world/story player.

 

Other MMOs have conditioned us to expect to deserve more shinies for "higher difficulty" (although a raid on farm mode isn't necessarily even that difficult once the pioneers have figured out the mechanics and everyone had time to practice, same for solo challenges that quickly get to farm status). I've been there, got my share of raid rewards that set me apart from "casuals" in other games.

 

What's attracted me to this game is that I really can play whatever I want and get comparably rewarded. There's no need to play raids, top tier pvp, daily t4 fractals or whatever else you can think to be able to access all of those game modes should I feel like it one of these days. Not playing that doesn't disadvantage me in any way. The more specific content we get with out-of-the-way reward increases, the more the concept will start to break.

 

Putting in difficulty options in instanced contend with non-negligible rewards (to the point where the risk/reward ratio is good enough to entice a serious number of the "I want more difficulty" crowd to actually play it) can easily break the reward balance across the whole game. While I personally do enjoy challenging content and really don't worry much about rewards, I doubt that ANet would do the game as a whole a favor if they spent a lot of development resources just to put in "more loot farmmodes".

[neoteo.3975]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Evolving Minotaur.5871" said:

> > I am not sure why people are saying no to this. We all know that hard mode will award more loot.

> This is a key problem of the whole concept of difficulty options. Many people claim they want more challenging content, while what they really want is more loot, to differentiate themselves from the "filthy casuals".

>

> This game however doesn't work that way. The devs have gone to some length to create a loot system and economy that rewards you for playing, no matter when or where. These rewards are brought in line in a way that getting ahead of others by (excessive) farming or by playing specific, especially rewarding content (e.g. fractal dailies) has a very strong cap on how many rewards you can get in relation to your everyday casual open world/story player.

>

> Other MMOs have conditioned us to expect to deserve more shinies for "higher difficulty" (although a raid on farm mode isn't necessarily even that difficult once the pioneers have figured out the mechanics and everyone had time to practice, same for solo challenges that quickly get to farm status). I've been there, got my share of raid rewards that set me apart from "casuals" in other games.

>

> What's attracted me to this game is that I really can play whatever I want and get comparably rewarded. There's no need to play raids, top tier pvp, daily t4 fractals or whatever else you can think to be able to access all of those game modes should I feel like it one of these days. Not playing that doesn't disadvantage me in any way. The more specific content we get with out-of-the-way reward increases, the more the concept will start to break.

>

> Putting in difficulty options in instanced contend with non-negligible rewards (to the point where the risk/reward ratio is good enough to entice a serious number of the "I want more difficulty" crowd to actually play it) can easily break the reward balance across the whole game. While I personally do enjoy challenging content and really don't worry much about rewards, I doubt that ANet would do the game as a whole a favor if they spent a lot of development resources just to put in "more loot farmmodes".

 

Me personally am looking more at easy mode than hard and inferno modes, those modes i would only enjoy on twitch.

 

I care zero about the loot as I have a job and I can buy gems anytime I want.

 

What i would love is more co-op content, that type that the game would explain to the players how to group easily and go in as group for easy content, not just the more end game content like fractals and raids.

 

I want people to help me with my story mode and if my friends are not playing at that moment, it's very hard to find randoms to play my story.

[zealex.9410]

+1 for me, i really enjoyed the hardmodes in gw1. Tho i think 4 modes is extreme, 2 should be fine, current dificulty and a cm.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Silvery Shadow.5036" said:

> Get already Raids for the hard mode. By the way, if memory is good GW1 didn't have a hard mode per instance...if you had finished everything in normal mode you had the choice to restart in hard mode....but it was a all or nothing...then again, haven't played GW1 in while so memory might be blurred.

>

 

Even then, they can do exactly the same for current gw2 content, unlock a hard mode after completing a season.

[Cerioth.7062]

Adding difficulty modes to everything is way too much work. Having to balance all that correctly will take them ages and is probably not worth the effort.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > I think people will accept delays if the content is worthwhile.

>

> People don't accept the current delays. What do you think ANet can possibly do so much better that it will change that?

>

> > What made the update speed so atrocious was that not only did we have to wait months for the content, but the content itself was meh and it didn't last the length of time between updates.

> And you think that taking twice as long will mean they can deliver substantially more than 2x content?

>

>

 

Provide them content that they like, alot of ppl find living world unengaging and even immersion breaking when it comes to bosses.

 

Then again delayes could be minimised if they released hard mode at a later date instead of the same day as the patch. Wow has been doing that with raids and it worked great.

 

Just release lw then a month later release hard mode for the episode, or release the season over the course of year or 2 then a month after its done release the hardmode of the season.

[yusayu.3629]

Raids should have more difficulties and harder modes than just normal and CM. Rewards need to be appropriate, as well.

 

Fractals... I dunno, maybe there should be a T5 with CMs at the end, but giving more fractals an actual CM mode would probably be fine as well.

 

For the rest of the PvE content? No. That's supposed to be accessible for everyone, and dungeons have terrible design and are mostly dead anyways.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"neoteo.3975" said:

> I want people to help me with my story mode and if my friends are not playing at that moment, it's very hard to find randoms to play my story.

 

This is a separate issue with the story, it offers zero value for repetition, it's supposed to be a once-done deal. Therefore if someone finds a specific story part hard, it's very hard to find players to help, unless they are friends/guild mates willing to do so. Although the more recent story instances are impossible to fail anymore, so this is more of an issue for older content.

[zealex.9410]

> @"yusayu.3629" said:

> Raids should have more difficulties and harder modes than just normal and CM. Rewards need to be appropriate, as well.

>

> Fractals... I dunno, maybe there should be a T5 with CMs at the end, but giving more fractals an actual CM mode would probably be fine as well.

>

> For the rest of the PvE content? No. That's supposed to be accessible for everyone, and dungeons have terrible design and are mostly dead anyways.

 

I dont think the op says that lw shouldnt be accessible, having diff modes for it doesnt exactly mate it less accessible

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"neoteo.3975" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Some instances may be considered 'easy' now, some of average difficulty, and some more challenging.

> > In other words, one size does _not_ fit all.

>

> That is why having modes helps to fit more.

>

> Gw1 did that since it was very instanced.

 

I see you edited your OP to something different.

Different difficulties might be something some players would desire, if it did not take much time and resources.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> I dont think the op says that lw shouldnt be accessible, having diff modes for it doesnt exactly mate it less accessible

 

I'm confused. It's impossible to fail the current lw and the pof story, why would we need lower difficulties for it?

And for higher difficulties, unless they have exciting new rewards (repeatable rewards, not a couple new achievements) then it would be another Migraine situation.

Either way it makes no sense to invest time in lw/story difficulty modes

[neoteo.3975]

> @"yusayu.3629" said:

> Raids should have more difficulties and harder modes than just normal and CM. Rewards need to be appropriate, as well.

>

> Fractals... I dunno, maybe there should be a T5 with CMs at the end, but giving more fractals an actual CM mode would probably be fine as well.

>

> For the rest of the PvE content? No. That's supposed to be accessible for everyone, and dungeons have terrible design and are mostly dead anyways.

 

I did mention an easier mode than the current one, but ok, i think the message was sent, anet will think about it

[kharmin.7683]

tldr; I prefer new content over the same content but in varying degrees of difficulty.

[Khisanth.2948]

When it comes to customizing difficulty something like Path of Exile's map system is probably one of the better approaches. The difficulty can be adapted based on build as well but one of the key factors is that they are tradeable. One of the biggest problem is that you have to plan for it in your design ...

[Rauderi.8706]

Available option for each instanced thing: from dungeons to raids to fractals. Just put a little node at the entrance.

Have it turn on an increasing buff every time the group wipes, similar to Echo in XIV. More healing, more outgoing damage, etc.

Easy to execute, still have to do the mechanics (or die to them a bunch to stat-bash it), but it makes each try after failure a *little* easier.

 

Clean, skilled runs still deserve better rewards, but at least a group that wants to go softer has the option and it won't require completely re-tooling things on the developer side.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> I feel that raids would be more accessible with some kind of baby mode that had baby rewards. Less effort should always result in less reward, and that'd open up a section of the game that a good number of people have avoided ever since raids hit Tyria.

 

The _**only**_ way I can see that happening is if rewards are only distributed on wing completion. Why? Magnetite shards are still rewarded upon failure of the current raids and since it's necessarily harder than a proposed "easy" mode, it should be run to completion for the goal of both encouragement and eventual goal of doing them in "regular" mode.

[Derdzvero.7051]

I think we have that already in place.

 

Story instances:

Easy mode=coop, it's MMO! ..or get a necro and solo it while eating chips ;)

Normal=current one

Hard = achievements, that are shown just above action bar. You decide how difficult it should be.

 

Open world:

Events are so designed, that you can do them with anything, varying from afk to hardcore-solo-yolo-superman.

Even most of the hero points are solo breeze...

 

Fractals have it - T1,2,3,4, CM... Can't get more fine-grained.

 

Dungeons.. story & exploring modes, different dungeons.. Arah being synonym of hard probably. I'm sure we all would LOVE more dungeons and stuff, but NCSOFT cares more about hearts and ugly skins, I'm afraid so.. not in this game.

 

Raid - no opinion or interest, find it boring even to watch.

 

P.S. HoT might be a bit challenging at times, but Anet ditched that model in all future content of theirs so we can ignore it, I guess.

 

 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Derdzvero.7051" said:

> I think we have that already in place.

>

> Story instances:

> Easy mode=coop, it's MMO! ..or get a necro and solo it while eating chips ;)

> Normal=current one

> Hard = achievements, that are shown just above action bar. You decide how difficult it should be.

>

> Open world:

> Events are so designed, that you can do them with anything, varying from afk to hardcore-solo-yolo-superman.

> Even most of the hero points are solo breeze...

>

> Fractals have it - T1,2,3,4, CM... Can't get more fine-grained.

>

> Dungeons.. story & exploring modes, different dungeons.. Arah being synonym of hard probably. I'm sure we all would LOVE more dungeons and stuff, but NCSOFT cares more about hearts and ugly skins, I'm afraid so.. not in this game.

>

> Raid - no opinion or interest, find it boring even to watch.

>

> P.S. HoT might be a bit challenging at times, but Anet ditched that model in all future content of theirs so we can ignore it, I guess.

>

>

 

We don't have that. No.

 

Story instances are kind of irrelevant since they are mostly designed to be solo'd anyway and its not difficult to solo them. I've never had any issue with soloing story missions. The achievements also don't even really make them that much more difficult because the enemies and bosses are still all at the same "difficulty" that they are always at. I wouldn't necessarily advocate for them to add difficulty options for Story instances as I find its just meant to tell the story but I wouldn't object to it being an option.

 

Open World would be more difficult to make challenging, but honestly I feel like they could piggy back onto the idea they had with Guilds being able to start a Tequatl event, and those similar, and have it so that a guild, or a Squad, can activate an instanced "hard mode" for meta events or world bosses but with better rewards. Might actually put some more importance on guilds and actually playing with them in Open World content as well.

 

Fractals do have some semblance of "difficulty" scaling but its just gated by AR and once you have enough, which isn't difficult as you only need 150 AR to do every fractal scale. You only need up to like +9 Agony infusions to hit that cap, actually to go over it. The instabilities add a layer of difficulty which makes this something that doesn't necessarily need to be added to Fractals, however I do wish they would get more rewarding than they currently are outside of just getting the dailies done. Aka something more consistently rewarding.

 

Dungeons are dead content. Anet abandoned them for Fractals and then for Raids. It would probably revive them significantly if Anet decided to add difficulty scaling to them, especially if they had worthwhile rewards to go along with the difficulty scaling. A Hard Mode for Dungeons would go a long way to adding much more worthwhile and satisfying PvE content.

 

Raids are technically the highest point in PvE challenge but its still not all that challenging. Just comparing GW2 raids and how quickly new ones are entirely cleared compared to Raids in other games? Its sad. The newest Raid was 100% cleared the same day that it released whereas you have new Raids on WoW and FFXIV that take weeks to a month or slightly more to completely clear all difficulty tiers.

 

Anet definitely needs to do something about this because their PvE literally *can not* compete. I don't mind accessible content for casual players. That isn't the problem here, people don't want that removed. All they want is that Anet also give something *actually* worthwhile to play and progress through for the more veteran and hardcore playerbase.