LucianTheAngelic.7054 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > Wonder it the stacks applied on Embrace the Darkness are stackable or not, if they are then I can see potential for putting out massive amounts of torment. > > I like the change to Call of Anguish, I run a Mace/Axe Hybrid Renegade with Mallyx and focus on torment so the AoE pull sounds great to me. > Pull foes, Embrace the Darkness, Axe 5, Mace 2, Mace 3 blast finisher.. sounds like a good damage combo which can apply a good burn and torment burst while trapping the enemy in AoE, rince and repeat as needed, back off to shortbow when I need a breather. > > I never cared much for pure power or pure condi revenant in the past.. but my hybrid changed my mind on Revs ^^ The only thing that blast finisher is gonna do is blast that mobile dark field from EtD ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralBM.5781 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Bruh... 35 energy PLUS a 5 sec cooldown for a pull and chill? I damn well better be pulling thieves and mesmers from other matches too. Leap finisher is a nice change, but what about range? and lul still no evade. Also shouldn't the 10 sec on the new EtD not really matter since it's how long it takes for your next legend to recharge? I'm interested to see how dark field plays out and I'm happy with the change to it's torment application, more spike torment makes me a happy condi rev. Though the stat removal hurts, I liked feeling more powerful in full demon form. All in all my interest in how these new reworks will change up my playstyle is severely overshadowed by high energy costs and cooldowns too. I'm puzzled why we're being forced to use like two utility skills in one legend before we have to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > Wonder it the stacks applied on Embrace the Darkness are stackable or not, if they are then I can see potential for putting out massive amounts of torment. > > > > I like the change to Call of Anguish, I run a Mace/Axe Hybrid Renegade with Mallyx and focus on torment so the AoE pull sounds great to me. > > Pull foes, Embrace the Darkness, Axe 5, Mace 2, Mace 3 blast finisher.. sounds like a good damage combo which can apply a good burn and torment burst while trapping the enemy in AoE, rince and repeat as needed, back off to shortbow when I need a breather. > > > > I never cared much for pure power or pure condi revenant in the past.. but my hybrid changed my mind on Revs ^^ > > The only thing that blast finisher is gonna do is blast that mobile dark field from EtD ? Not quite, Echoing Eruption can trigger multiple blast finishers so if the first triggers the AoE blind from the dark field the second should trigger the Flame blast from Searing Fissure. This is something i'll have to test though. Also curious how this mobile Dark field is going to play with projectiles, if I swap to shortbow then all my attacks should lifesteal while EtD is active. In theory as well I should also be able to position myself between a LB Ranger and an enemy and heal him by making all his arrows lifesteal which sounds like a fun thing to mess around with :D Hey ranger!! shoot me in the face so I can heal you!! XD I main a LB Ranger in PVE so this is something I can also keep an eye out for bonus dmg and healing. If I see a Rev pop EtD I can position myself behind him and fill his backside full of arrows :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" Can we get some clarification on why you made these two changes for EtD and UA, especially the energy/cooldown increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 I don't think we need Irenio to answer why is there an energy cost and cooldown increase. It's pretty simple - it will be that way so it isn't spammable as this would be cancer. Though I would suggest to reduce Banish Enchantment cost to 15 energy. EtD will reset on legend swap do what's wrong, it's not like you pop it up 2-3 times during 1 legend swap. I like that change but I still don't think we will get that ultimate demon form feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > I don't think we need Irenio to answer why is there an energy cost and cooldown increase. > It's pretty simple - it will be that way so it isn't spammable as this would be cancer. > > Though I would suggest to reduce Banish Enchantment cost to 15 energy. > > EtD will reset on legend swap do what's wrong, it's not like you pop it up 2-3 times during 1 legend swap. I like that change but I still don't think we will get that ultimate demon form feeling. You missed what I wrote so let me make it simpler. Condi Rev has a high skill floor to achieve high dps. Key skills were changed which bring it well below the Mendoza line. And here we have Condi Mirage top the charts with astronomical numbers and that wasn’t touched in the slightest. So getting an understanding on why they made these changes will be warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > I don't think we need Irenio to answer why is there an energy cost and cooldown increase. > It's pretty simple - it will be that way so it isn't spammable as this would be cancer. > > Though I would suggest to reduce Banish Enchantment cost to 15 energy. > > EtD will reset on legend swap do what's wrong, it's not like you pop it up 2-3 times during 1 legend swap. I like that change but I still don't think we will get that ultimate demon form feeling. You would want to pop it 2-3 times per legend swap to proc Demonic Defiance/Maniacal Persistence, since you will no longer be using Unyielding fillers for this. But more than that it just turns Mallyx into a "turn on one skill and forget about it legend." Zero active gameplay. Like literally you can't even turn it on and off to micromanage your energy, you just have to turn it on and hope you don't get mechanics or whatever--and forget about like, turning it off to regain enough energy to use banish enchantment before turning it back on... Now if you want a little utility it comes at a 100% sacrifice of the *only* dps option the legend offers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > I don't think we need Irenio to answer why is there an energy cost and cooldown increase. > > It's pretty simple - it will be that way so it isn't spammable as this would be cancer. > > > > Though I would suggest to reduce Banish Enchantment cost to 15 energy. > > > > EtD will reset on legend swap do what's wrong, it's not like you pop it up 2-3 times during 1 legend swap. I like that change but I still don't think we will get that ultimate demon form feeling. > You missed what I wrote so let me make it simpler. > > Condi Rev has a high skill floor to achieve high dps. Key skills were changed which bring it well below the Mendoza line. And here we have Condi Mirage top the charts with astronomical numbers and that wasn’t touched in the slightest. So getting an understanding on why they made these changes will be warranted. > Well, I think it's because Revenant is still a toy in the eyes of Devs. This class is literally still in Beta, hence the huge changes every single patch. While I get why some people can be angry for changing / reducing their value on Raids, I don't mind these changes. I loved the oryginał Revenant and the feeling of it. This Update will bring some of the old Mallyx, and just to clarify, it wasn't designed as a PvE Torment machine it is now. Looks like Devs decided to go back to the initial idea and fuse them into the updated Mallyx. In the end, people will find a way to get the numbers, but for me interesting profession mechanics are more interesting than Raid numbers (I am a raider too). I am hoping for some huge rework of Renegade. Just because it provides good numbers doesn't make me want to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > I don't think we need Irenio to answer why is there an energy cost and cooldown increase. > > It's pretty simple - it will be that way so it isn't spammable as this would be cancer. > > > > Though I would suggest to reduce Banish Enchantment cost to 15 energy. > > > > EtD will reset on legend swap do what's wrong, it's not like you pop it up 2-3 times during 1 legend swap. I like that change but I still don't think we will get that ultimate demon form feeling. > > You would want to pop it 2-3 times per legend swap to proc Demonic Defiance/Maniacal Persistence, since you will no longer be using Unyielding fillers for this. > > But more than that it just turns Mallyx into a "turn on one skill and forget about it legend." Zero active gameplay. Like literally you can't even turn it on and off to micromanage your energy, you just have to turn it on and hope you don't get mechanics or whatever--and forget about like, turning it off to regain enough energy to use banish enchantment before turning it back on... Now if you want a little utility it comes at a 100% sacrifice of the *only* dps option the legend offers now. Mallyx was a utility legend by design, it later became that primitive Torment spam. But as for the energy management, I agree that this conflicts with Revenant's design and we see more skills like that: - every Kalla summon and F skill - Inspiring Reinforcement - Forced Engagement - Now Mallyx I am waiting for the Trident Treatment to test of the weapons. Energy cost for weapon skills are pretty high when combined with utilities. Hell, Shiro on its own Has barely any damaging skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > I am happy about the update. Mallyx will be more fun to play. People will still find a way to PvE with it, While obviously fun is a subjective concept, can I ask how giving what was once a spammable movement skill a 5 second cooldown and giving your only upkeep skill a 10 second one makes something "more fun to play?" To me, it makes it more clunky, less intuitive/adaptive, and fifteen steps towards completely braindead gameplay. The mobile dark field will remove any creative use of combo finishers since it will be always there overwriting any other ones you might see pop up, and the titantic cool downs on your skills give you no flexibility in energy management/dumping. Like, which part is fun? Having a pull? If you think that's rad, you should try Firebrand--they have TWO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrak.9506 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 bruh. this Thould end up an overall dps _buff_. EtD should be able top pump out more torment than double UA ever could. Just depends on whether or not the triple torment pulse procs have a cooldown or not. And this is a straight up buff to condi rev in pvp anyways. Hard CC and aoe blind spam will keep you in the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > I am happy about the update. Mallyx will be more fun to play. People will still find a way to PvE with it, > > While obviously fun is a subjective concept, can I ask how giving what was once a spammable movement skill a 5 second cooldown and giving your only upkeep skill a 10 second one makes something "more fun to play?" To me, it makes it more clunky, less intuitive/adaptive, and fifteen steps towards completely braindead gameplay. The mobile dark field will remove any creative use of combo finishers since it will be always there overwriting any other ones you might see pop up, and the titantic cool downs on your skills give you no flexibility in energy management/dumping. > > Like, which part is fun? Having a pull? If you think that's rad, you should try Firebrand--they have TWO! I think you care too much. As I said, HoT-launch Unyielding Anguish teleported people out of the skill area. I liked this idea. It used to have 35 energy cost but no cooldown and it was very frustrating because of no CD. Let's be honest, we can't have everything. You could want number changes on skills only, I could want new functionality of these skills. This time I am going to be happy about these changes and in the near future probably you will be when there are simple number updates. And honestly, I couldn't care less about FB or Mirage or any other PoF-Vomit-Spec. Firebrand could have 5 pulls and it still wouldn't bother me as this is just powercrept junko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just want to throw in that giving cooldowns to these skills shouldn't be a point to complain about, as spamming them is generally an awful idea anyway. Nothing of value lost, but more people might be able to pick it up and understand it more easily, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 EtD turned on, enemy LB healing thanks to your EtD. Yaaaay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"KidRoleplay.3615" said: > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > I am happy about the update. Mallyx will be more fun to play. People will still find a way to PvE with it, > > On the contrary, I expect to see "NO CONDI REV" popping up in LFGs soon because of the dark field. Combo fields need some rework so there's no longer negative effects from having any of them and players can freely stack them without negative repercussions. Even having finishers trigger all combos in their path but in exchange giving them internal cooldowns per finisher type so they can't be spammed would be preferable to having your finishers wasted constantly by some guardian popping symbols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > but you're going to be forced into channel a boring upkeep skill eh? where does it say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > @"KidRoleplay.3615" said: > > 35 Energy is too high for anything outside of elite skills. I thought we've already been through this... > > > > Justified if the skill pulses though, which would make it a devastating self-chaining CC. But I highly doubt it. > > > > Because if it doesn't pulse, that cuts out about 16+ stacks of Torment out of the rotation alone. > > It's funny because they say it's revamped as a "setup skill", even though you probably won't have enough energy to followup with anything. That is what I though too. Mallyx is already energy starved. It is currently it is biggest issue in PvP. Also this is a big damage and mobility nerf for... a pull?! In any case, if you are thinking of condi rev PvP viability, never is probably the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 So on a less dramatic note, I am still curious to try these changes out despite my disappointment. I am one of those monkeys that actually like dark fields because blinds make me happy. The EtD functionality change is rather interesting, but from a PvP/WvW perspective, I feel that a lot of the extra torment stacks will go to waste because Mallyx is not the most durable bruiser and it will now have less mobility to stick onto targets. **Personally, I think it would be nice to have EtD charge your next damaging attack with 2 torment stacks after using a skill that costs energy.** This would allow for much better ranged pressure, even allowing for a weapon like hammer to poke torment on people. I get that Mallyx is intended to be a close-range bruiser, but it lacks the survivability, versatility, and adaptability to excel at such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meri.9187 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 As someone who doesn't really play Mallyx that much for condi anymore (hybrid glint/shiro is much more fun) the biggest worry for me with this patch is the simple fact that this class is being dumbed down even further and relying even less on good energy management. We've already seen Jalis skills changed to a lower energy cost and a longer cooldown. We saw it with the Ventari elite in PvP (although let's be real that was necessary). Now we're seeing it happen with Unyielding Anguish and Embrace the Darkness. This class loses its identity more each patch and managing the resource that once made rev unique is becoming even easier to do, rev players signed up for an energy system acting like thief's initiative for ALL 9 skills other than autoattack. Of course, the tradeoff is low weapon cooldowns and no cooldowns on utility skills so long as you had the energy to use them. Suggest a cooldown be added to some thief weapon skills (like s/d #3 for example, lol) and watch everyone lose their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasp Sabreblade.5421 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > I think you care too much. As I said, HoT-launch Unyielding Anguish teleported people out of the skill area. I liked this idea. It used to have 35 energy cost but no cooldown and it was very frustrating because of no CD. I think Anet should add this back in as a 4th utility skill for Mallyx. This was awesome for stopping ppl from stomping in WvW and Pvp. It only became an issue in PvE and champions where it was abused to hold mobs against walls and negate the actions. Heck Anet needs to add a 4th utility to all the legends. Again this is the same complaint since Revenant was released. edit: give all the weapons the trident treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said: > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said: > > > > I think you care too much. As I said, HoT-launch Unyielding Anguish teleported people out of the skill area. I liked this idea. It used to have 35 energy cost but no cooldown and it was very frustrating because of no CD. > > I think Anet should add this back in as a 4th utility skill for Mallyx. This was awesome for stopping ppl from stomping in WvW and Pvp. It only became an issue in PvE and champions where it was abused to hold mobs against walls and negate the actions. > > Heck Anet needs to add a 4th utility to all the legends. Again this is the same complaint since Revenant was released. > > edit: give all the weapons the trident treatment. > > Well, that would be very reasonable. Instead of removing skills and replacing them they could really add them as an option. Because... Just why not? Would it really powercreep Revenant or allow it to overperform? I don't think so. This would be the way to go. Noone would be hurt since this was a completely new skill that you _can choose_. Also, I am a fan of adding more utility per legend because let's be honest. Half of every legends' kit is split between being half viable in PvP and half in PvE. The best way would be to let Revenants choose which content they want to focus on, because who desperately needs 0 dmg boonstrip in PvE, or a Projectile Shield, or Taunt, or Shadowstep. For me, Mallyx since HoT-launch was a PvP designed legend. Healing off of condis, Boonstrip, Displacement, Torment, Confusion, Condi Transfer - none of these are as meaningful as in PvP. And it's cool, but then, what about people who want to play Condi Rev in PvE? Now, we will have a solution - EtD. But yeah, more utilities gives more freedom of playstyle. Our focus would still remain on the current legend because well, we are on that legend. Noone's harmed. + God how I wish we had Trident Treatment across all weapons, no matter the odds. This would be so interactive, interesting and fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtnik.5218 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just delete the class already. Or at last delete energy system as it stands right now it no longer makes any sense. They literally gutted my condi wvw build with these 2 changes and nerfed it in pve as well. At this point i rather have regular cd's with no energy system. What a joke. I literally dont understand how they could slap 10cd on a upkeep skill?! Time to roll something else but idk what could replace revenant theme either. Guess its time to leave the game again. Rip Mallyx. Rip pre HoT Mallyx. Its time to let you go. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 The problem with the Rev changes is while damage nerfs were justified, they didn't buff utility in regards to conditions one tiny bit and instead focused on random dartboard changes to Mallyx. So Rev is now going to be one meta shift to condis away from being trash tier again. Rev deserved damage nerfs and utility buffs and Anet decided to nerf both which was uncalled for. They are basically pandering to the unskilled player crowd who don't know how to fight Rev due to the fact that they aren't good enough to play it and understand its inherent weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said: > Ew, what the godforsaken rotten kitten is this? Seriously? More cooldowns on legend skills? I thought we had energy for a reason. This absolutely guts and fries my core Mallyx builds. And to think that orbs were only a premonition of what's to come... This is what you core players get for flaunting "core" on the forums too much. Core is amazing just needs buffs! Elite specs are straight upgrades! Put them together and anet nerfs elite specs and then does "revamps" (another frequent cringe suggestion) on stuff that this time happened to target mallyx. >! Sleep in the bed you make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtnik.5218 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 At this point i am just waiting for cd's to thief. Enough is enough. Make it fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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