Pistol Whip Daredevils are so horridly broken

[memausz.7264]

Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

you said dagger pistol, but its sword pistol. daredevil can't remove revealed, that's deadeye.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

 

You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

[azzardome.9184]

ok https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Boomer

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> Just dodge looool or walk out of it?

 

Next thief elite spec weapon is a feather duster to make sure no-one dies to it.

 

09/19/2021—September 19 Release Notes:

* Feather Duster tickle coefficient reduced by 50%, too many people were dying of laughter.

[Alatar.7364]

Ok, so not only you don't actually know what weapon set you are complaining about but you also confuse the build with an entirely different spec _(DrD removing reveal, jesus)_

So, its **EXTREMELY** obvious that you never even attempted to find out how to play against it, hell you didn't even attempt to find out **what** it is that you're getting farmed by.

As such this is probably the most legit and deserved _"freaking **L2P** already!"_

Or a troll, don't care anymore there is no difference.

[verskore.4312]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

>

> You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

 

Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> you said dagger pistol, but its sword pistol. daredevil can't remove revealed, that's deadeye.

 

lmao, that hilarious and I think it shows the state of mind of some of the forum complainers. OP didn't even bother looking into it, just lost, didn't understand why and then immediately came to the boards to complain and ask for nerfs. :D

[saerni.2584]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > you said dagger pistol, but its sword pistol. daredevil can't remove revealed, that's deadeye.

>

> lmao, that hilarious and I think it shows the state of mind of some of the forum complainers. OP didn't even bother looking into it, just lost, didn't understand why and then immediately came to the boards to complain and ask for nerfs. :D

 

Rock is OP, nerf paper.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > you said dagger pistol, but its sword pistol. daredevil can't remove revealed, that's deadeye.

>

> lmao, that hilarious and I think it shows the state of mind of some of the forum complainers. OP didn't even bother looking into it, just lost, didn't understand why and then immediately came to the boards to complain and ask for nerfs. :D

 

Well perhaps he one of those that think the INI system allows a thief to pick every trait from every trait line.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"verskore.4312" said:

> > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> >

> > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

>

> Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

 

Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"verskore.4312" said:

> > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> >

> > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

>

> Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

 

If playing the class/build, dying a lot, finding out why you're dying a lot, or just generally asking how to beat the spec - AKA, playing the game - was too much effort, why am I to believe you're going to ignore any advice given to you, anyways?

 

I'll give you two major pointers and maybe you'll actually do some homework because I'm feeling nice today.

- Initiative is finite and PW costs a fair amount relative to the total initiative pool. Track time and initiative usage.

- PW has a delay and can be interrupted/the thief nuked in said time.

 

That generally should suffice. The build concept has existed forever and is only now a problem because the specs are so braindead these days people forgot what skilled play is.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

 

What a world of difference not having heavy Elixir stab uptime to steamroll game mechanics makes.

 

> @"verskore.4312" said:

> Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

 

 

Figure out what it means. The evade window hasn't changed since 2013.

[lightstalker.1498]

By your complaints we have someone out there running daredevil and deadeye on a dagger pistol weapon set with low skill owning high level players with pistol whip. /asspalm

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

>

> What a world of difference not having heavy Elixir stab uptime to steamroll game mechanics makes.

>

> > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

>

>

>

> Figure out what it means. The evade window hasn't changed since 2013.

 

Now the Devs should force the Animation to be completed and you cannot stop the aftercast/or move , when you dodge or swap weapons .

(if you can move or do any attack after the evade animation have eneded , then its internal cd- , so you cannot chain 2 attacks)

And removes the 0.5 sec cast on most attacks on other classes :P

 

edit 2 : yeah.... there is not aftercast vunibility

Movng ...either when the first chain hit or 3rd or last, stops the attack , whiile until that point keeping your evade frames

Only when you stun the enemy at the first you dont have evade

Hmm they reduced the intrenal cd , from this 2013 video ....its more fluent now , to showcase the fluency of the engine .

Where is that Programmer ? In the future console game ?

 

 

 

[Ysmir.4986]

too many people baited by troll post

 

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> too many people baited by troll post

>

 

This reminds me of the condi thief post lol...

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > >

> > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> >

> > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

>

> Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

 

Excatly this.

 

Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

 

No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

[chiri.9087]

ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Sikieiki.3189" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > > > >

> > > > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> > > >

> > > > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

> > >

> > > Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

> >

> > Excatly this.

> >

> > Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

> >

> > No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

>

> If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

 

I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

 

I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

 

Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

 

Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

[Justine.6351]

But does it shoot laserbeams too? If no, then no op.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"Sikieiki.3189" said:

> > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

> > > >

> > > > Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

> > >

> > > Excatly this.

> > >

> > > Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

> > >

> > > No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

> >

> > If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

>

> I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

>

> I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

>

> Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

>

> Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

 

yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

 

and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > @"Sikieiki.3189" said:

> > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

> > > > >

> > > > > Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

> > > >

> > > > Excatly this.

> > > >

> > > > Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

> > > >

> > > > No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

> > >

> > > If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

> >

> > I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

> >

> > I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

> >

> > Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

> >

> > Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

>

> yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

>

> and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

 

Even heavily nerfed dp has a much stronger presence in a plus 1...

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > @"Sikieiki.3189" said:

> > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

> > > > >

> > > > > Excatly this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

> > > > >

> > > > > No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

> > > >

> > > > If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

> > >

> > > I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

> > >

> > > I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

> > >

> > > Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

> > >

> > > Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

> >

> > yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

> >

> > and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

>

> Even heavily nerfed dp has a much stronger presence in a plus 1...

 

How? When the only thing it's got is a 5k? Back stab and that's it, the rest of the weapon set s/p has

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Sikieiki.3189" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

> > > > >

> > > > > You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

> > > >

> > > > Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

> > >

> > > Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

> >

> > Excatly this.

> >

> > Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

> >

> > No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

>

> If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

 

S/p thief has existed about as long as Conquest mode has. Why were these same problems not noted years ago?