Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > >**Winning should be emphasized.** You right, Daga(だが), > Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. Not rewarding losing will encourage wintrading and focus toxicity on people that are new/perceived as underperforming. The only thing that fixes both of those is a decision to stop stroking solo-carry player egos and let people make teams of people they know for ranked. The solo players will complain about something steamrolling them regardless. If its not teams, its mmr. If its not MMR, its bots. The game's built around grouping up to get big things done. Why should PVP ranked be different to its detriment? Just let the people make their teams, and if the team isn't a premade heavily reward the people who are top "X" so solo players still have a chance at getting something shiny/motivation to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > >**Winning should be emphasized.** > > You right, > > Daga(だが), > > > Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > Not rewarding losing will encourage wintrading and focus toxicity on people that are new/perceived as underperforming. > > The only thing that fixes both of those is a decision to stop stroking solo-carry player egos and let people make teams of people they know for ranked. The solo players will complain about something steamrolling them regardless. If its not teams, its mmr. If its not MMR, its bots. The game's built around grouping up to get big things done. Why should PVP ranked be different to its detriment? > > Just let the people make their teams, and if the team isn't a premade heavily reward the people who are top "X" so solo players still have a chance at getting something shiny/motivation to try. > In neverwinter we can team qeue, never seem problem with that, if someone wants improve just find a pvp guild, so its be like WvW already is in some way.(anyone who wants over-perform join a guild that will train him/teach builds to WvW/teach better team play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > >**Winning should be emphasized.** > > > > You right, > > > > Daga(だが), > > > > > Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > Not rewarding losing will encourage wintrading and focus toxicity on people that are new/perceived as underperforming. > > > > The only thing that fixes both of those is a decision to stop stroking solo-carry player egos and let people make teams of people they know for ranked. The solo players will complain about something steamrolling them regardless. If its not teams, its mmr. If its not MMR, its bots. The game's built around grouping up to get big things done. Why should PVP ranked be different to its detriment? > > > > Just let the people make their teams, and if the team isn't a premade heavily reward the people who are top "X" so solo players still have a chance at getting something shiny/motivation to try. > > > > In neverwinter we can team qeue, never seem problem with that, if someone wants improve just find a pvp guild, so its be like WvW already is in some way.(anyone who wants over-perform join a guild that will train him/teach builds to WvW/teach better team play). Agreed. And the people that can't work together/can't be civil end up handicapping themselves. Hell, coordination might even help offset some of the broken classes 1v1, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Give the rewards in unranked that ud get from losing in ranked and remove from ranked so everyone in ranked is there for the completionist first rewards second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > > > how to remove even more players from pvp > > > earn nothing for losing > > > lets punish all players because bots and afkers instead of just fixing bots and afkers > > > > > > This would be the worst choice they can make Fix the cause dont fight symptoms and pushing real players at the same time. > > > > > > I wouldnt touch pvp if i was told there was a chance i wont get anything for each game if i lose. > > > This will also make people more toxic as a result creating a new problem > > > > Sorry it's not like you get bots and AFKers on your team every game. > > > > If you REWARD losing, you're going to have people who don't care about winning because the rewards for literally AFKing are decent enough that they don't care to try. > > > 1. IF you only reward winning people who lose become easily tilted and like most people like you have been doing need a reason to make it nothing you did wrong and start pointing fingers at someone else. People who continue to play and lose become super tilted and easily toxic because not only was it a loss but 0 compensation at all for losing. > > > Other games are like this too. GW2 doesn't need to be the "UBER-OMEGA-CASUAL-CATERING-NOOBFEST!" to retain players... and thinking it has to be is silly in the first place. > > 2. Most other games are the same way you always get something for playing even if you lose. While win rewards should never be equal to lose rewards there needs to be at least some minor copensation for time played. Thats the point of play time compensation. Time is moeny even for gamers if you are willing to invest time doing something you feel like you should get something out of it even if you lose. Im sorry no your idea is not going to work or solve any problems. > > > > > If you wouldn't touch PvP if they decide to not reward losses, bye bye! A lot of people dislike how casual the game is. The current system rewards bots and AFKers too, so removing the rewards for losing would actually help get rid of them. In other words, it benefits you too and improves match quality. If you decide to quit, that's on you, not the game. > > 3. So once again why not just fix the AFKers and Bots fix the problems dont bandaid the symptoms. IF they wont do that then leave the rewards alone and you can deal with losing every now and again. IF you think removing reward will stop afkers and bots you are wrong. All it takes is a low enough pvp population of active players to reach a point where botters and afkers still end up making profits from games with other afkers and bots. > > 4. Im thankfully happy you are not in charge of making these kind of decisions for anet. > > 1. So what's better, someone who has a crappy attitude getting tilted or rewarding bots and AFKers so match quality goes down the drain? If you read some of my more recent posts, you'll also see that I've been advocating for Anet to increase the amount of contribution a single player has on the match. So, instead of relying on your RNG teammates to win, you can carry a match on your own if you play well. 2. Nah not really. They might give _something_ extremely minor. But to reward losing to the point where people literally don't care whether or not they AFK is stupid. In fact, it's pretty silly how you dislike AFKers and trolls but are encouraging the very mechanics that reward them for doing that in the first place. 3. The "everyone wins" mentality is lame. Improving your gameplay should be encouraged. Just doing whatever you want because your feelings might get hurt if you lose is such a lame mindset to bring into anything, especially in competitive settings. 4. Okay so let's go with what you want and reward people for AFKing in matches! Wow! Very nice! /clapclap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > >**Winning should be emphasized.** > > You right, > > Daga(だが), > > > Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > Not rewarding losing will encourage wintrading and focus toxicity on people that are new/perceived as underperforming. > > The only thing that fixes both of those is a decision to stop stroking solo-carry player egos and let people make teams of people they know for ranked. The solo players will complain about something steamrolling them regardless. If its not teams, its mmr. If its not MMR, its bots. The game's built around grouping up to get big things done. Why should PVP ranked be different to its detriment? > > Just let the people make their teams, and if the team isn't a premade heavily reward the people who are top "X" so solo players still have a chance at getting something shiny/motivation to try. > Thank you! Regarding your second point, not rewarding losing should encourage people to try to win. If someone's immediate response to that is to _cheat_ they're lame and should get banned. I've never, not even once, thought about doing scumbag stuff like that to try and get my ranking up. Instead, I just try my best to keep everything positive and win every match regardless of what the scoreboard says. No respect at all for people who do that stuff. But yeah, for the people who aren't lame, not rewarding losing should actually make people play (or want to play) better. Plus, it's like WAY more effort to try and sync ques or w/e than to just practice winning fights on your own. It doesn't make much sense to me, personally. Like all of my highest top 10 rank placements and titles I've gotten like my R2 or (for example) my R22 last season were all solo que unless a friend wanted to play a match here or there (R2 was solo que only season anyways). So yeah, idk. No point in cheating when I can just play during normal hours on my own instead of waiting for a duo to get online and still climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTGuevara.9018 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I'm just shaking my head.... This spvp community has become even _more_ of a cesspool since I've quit. I'm confident without a shadow of a doubt, this attitude is primarily driven by two things: no 5v5 queues and the reward tracks! With 5v5 queues, people can prevent this attitude from taking place. Reward tracks are just there to entice and shuffle primary pve players to get them to play pvp. Solo queuers who AFK and troll simply do...not...care. There's just...no accountability involved lmao! Then again, I'm not surprised at this mess. This has been going on since the removal of 5v5 ranked queues. See, this is why stopped playing ranked. This BS is not competitive in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > No point in cheating when I can just play during normal hours and still climb. That may be the case for you, but you are not everyone. Part of balancing rewarding is to make playing underhanded less appealing/ more difficult in conjunction with punishing it. People still pirate despite threats of fines, and people can and will continue to wintrade as long as it is optimal. Any system change that makes people more inclined to do this should be reconsidered. We want more people coming in, not more people driven out by people optimizing matches with wintrading until the game ceases to be a game. In a 5 v 5 where any one actor can constitute a loss, people that have the means to alter that matchup so the loss always populates the opposing side will __always__ do it. That compulsion is what creates metas, what causes overpowered builds to become prevalent, and what eventually kills game balance. You absolutely don't want that. The honor system doesn't work on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > > > > > how to remove even more players from pvp > > > > earn nothing for losing > > > > lets punish all players because bots and afkers instead of just fixing bots and afkers > > > > > > > > This would be the worst choice they can make Fix the cause dont fight symptoms and pushing real players at the same time. > > > > > > > > I wouldnt touch pvp if i was told there was a chance i wont get anything for each game if i lose. > > > > This will also make people more toxic as a result creating a new problem > > > > > > Sorry it's not like you get bots and AFKers on your team every game. > > > > > > If you REWARD losing, you're going to have people who don't care about winning because the rewards for literally AFKing are decent enough that they don't care to try. > > > > > 1. IF you only reward winning people who lose become easily tilted and like most people like you have been doing need a reason to make it nothing you did wrong and start pointing fingers at someone else. People who continue to play and lose become super tilted and easily toxic because not only was it a loss but 0 compensation at all for losing. > > > > > Other games are like this too. GW2 doesn't need to be the "UBER-OMEGA-CASUAL-CATERING-NOOBFEST!" to retain players... and thinking it has to be is silly in the first place. > > > > 2. Most other games are the same way you always get something for playing even if you lose. While win rewards should never be equal to lose rewards there needs to be at least some minor copensation for time played. Thats the point of play time compensation. Time is moeny even for gamers if you are willing to invest time doing something you feel like you should get something out of it even if you lose. Im sorry no your idea is not going to work or solve any problems. > > > > > > > > If you wouldn't touch PvP if they decide to not reward losses, bye bye! A lot of people dislike how casual the game is. The current system rewards bots and AFKers too, so removing the rewards for losing would actually help get rid of them. In other words, it benefits you too and improves match quality. If you decide to quit, that's on you, not the game. > > > > 3. So once again why not just fix the AFKers and Bots fix the problems dont bandaid the symptoms. IF they wont do that then leave the rewards alone and you can deal with losing every now and again. IF you think removing reward will stop afkers and bots you are wrong. All it takes is a low enough pvp population of active players to reach a point where botters and afkers still end up making profits from games with other afkers and bots. > > > > 4. Im thankfully happy you are not in charge of making these kind of decisions for anet. > > > > > > 1. So what's better, someone who has a crappy attitude getting tilted or rewarding bots and AFKers so match quality goes down the drain? If you read some of my more recent posts, you'll also see that I've been advocating for Anet to increase the amount of contribution a single player has on the match. So, instead of relying on your RNG teammates to win, you can carry a match on your own if you play well. Neither is ideal but people will always have crappy attitudes regardless thats how people are via the power of the internet especially in 2020 where people think its cool to be toxic and e bully others where they know there is no chance of self consequence. Removing rewards wont stop this from happening if anything you will make peoples attitudes worse especially if they are on a losing streak or currently behind in a match. Single player contribution influencing the outcome in team based game mode.... how about NO! PUT THIS IN YOUR HEAD if you read others replies to your post they dont agree that a single individual should have what you are advocating. What have you have been advocating is selfish while at the same time always faulting your teammates in your examples. Even in other post you call your teammates "incompetent" by example, yet have the nerve to sit here and ask me a question about which is better crappy attitudes or rewarding afkers.... now examen yourself closely and consider who is the player with the crappy attitude. You are under the illusion that you should be able to 1v4 and have the advantage yet call your teammates incompetent if they dont clean up after your amazing suicidal play..... really... Ive already answered that the issue with bots and afker's should be dealt with directly which solves the problem. All you want to do is make work arounds and bandaids like giving 0 rewards for the losing team and hope that the botters and afker's vanish... no thats not how this works. Think about how bad this will feel in games where scores end up as 500 to 490 for example. > 2. Nah not really. They might give _something_ extremely minor. But to reward losing to the point where people literally don't care whether or not they AFK is stupid. In fact, it's pretty silly how you dislike AFKers and trolls but are encouraging the very mechanics that reward them for doing that in the first place. Its pretty silly how you just dont want to fix the afker problem and botting but instead directly rob everyone else who still wants to play the game legit and think this is ok because "Well you should want to win harder" but if you dont then "you should want to win harder" blah blah blah "individual carry" Your logic here is just so disconnected its insane. > 3. The "everyone wins" mentality is lame. Improving your gameplay should be encouraged. Just doing whatever you want because your feelings might get hurt if you lose is such a lame mindset to bring into anything, especially in competitive settings. Everyone wins would mean everyone gets equal rewards win or lose which is most certainly not the case. Gameplay grants progress. Winning grants more progress Losing grants less progress Im all for improving my game play but you wont do that by making the community more tilting place than it already is and a good way to do that is to remove rewards from everyone unless you win. > 4. Okay so let's go with what you want and reward people for AFKing in matches! Wow! Very nice! /clapclap You ? literally ? don't ? read ??? I want them to deal with the boting and AFKing system directly. There are several ways of doing this without ripping rewards away from hard honest players who want to improve and learn regardless of win or lose. Dont try to make it look like the AFK'ing and bot'ing issues are my fault. ?Clap that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alin.2468 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 There is a saying: **Don't hate the player hate the game**. Remember that in late 2016 players, in huge majority, [voted](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-poll-soloduo-queue/) for SoloQ only, therefore teams (with team-play) got completely removed from ranked. We need to accept our own vote and embrace the current _status quo_. Botting is nothing but a side effect of enforced SoloQ. If teams were to be allowed, all bots would be demolished, just like in the old days of PvP. However, we voted to play alone and farm PvP alone, because we wanted this current easy farm with rewards for loosing, uninterrupted by teams with real-time voice coordination. Please stop blaming other players for trying to farm in the best way they see fit; it's their game too, and they paid for this product and voted for it, just like you did. Because of that SoloQ vote, all players (bots included) actually have a common ground; and the fact that it lasted so far, means it's a huge success. I know this may be hard to believe, but it's also the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > how to remove even more players from pvp > > earn nothing for losing > > lets punish all players because bots and afkers instead of just fixing bots and afkers > > > > This would be the worst choice they can make Fix the cause dont fight symptoms and pushing real players at the same time. > > > > I wouldnt touch pvp if i was told there was a chance i wont get anything for each game if i lose. > > This will also make people more toxic as a result creating a new problem > > Sorry it's not like you get bots and AFKers on your team every game. > > If you REWARD losing, you're going to have people who don't care about winning because the rewards for literally AFKing are decent enough that they don't care to try. > > Other games are like this too. GW2 doesn't need to be the "UBER-OMEGA-CASUAL-CATERING-NOOBFEST!" to retain players... and thinking it has to be is silly in the first place. > > If you wouldn't touch PvP if they decide to not reward losses, bye bye! A lot of people dislike how casual the game is. The current system rewards bots and AFKers too, so removing the rewards for losing would actually help get rid of them. In other words, it benefits you too and improves match quality. If you decide to quit, that's on you, not the game. I dont know if you dont know it, or just refuse to acknowledge it, but bots are going to win games, after losing so much they will drop so low that they will have games that just can not be lost, or just drop so low that players legit are on their level. removing rewards DOES NOT help. they should just ban the bots, ban the afkers and be done with it. Then work of fixing matchmaking, removing things should ALWAYS be the last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 its our fault really. the math geeks told the biz execs that more rewards = more money. now the common mentality is to "earn" during all types of play, even though this is continually proving to fail concerning video gaming. basically we should all hate ourselves and elect a circle of wise masters to enforce the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"Alin.2468" said: > We need to accept our own vote and embrace the current _status quo_. We may have voted for it, but it was a bad call. >all players (bots included) actually have a common ground; and the fact that it lasted so far, means it's a huge success. I know this may be hard to believe, but it's also the truth. It's the truth, but its a crappy truth. Bots shouldn't by nature of PvP organization have common ground with human players sitting down and choosing to do this for their evening/morning/afternoon. If that's the case, something needs to change. Whether swiss does or does not help that remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"Nilkemia.8507" said: > > @"Ghetx.1752" said: > > > @"Nilkemia.8507" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > > > This will just make matches even more toxic and drive away more people. > > > > And make Spvp actually competitive. > > > > Most games you get people who don't care about win because they get rewarded for losing. > > Still not sure how a dying PvP mode can/will be competitive. Didn't they try that with E-sports or whatever? How'd that work out again? > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Nilkemia.8507" said: > > > @"Ghetx.1752" said: > > > > @"Nilkemia.8507" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > > > > > This will just make matches even more toxic and drive away more people. > > > > > > And make Spvp actually competitive. > > > > > > Most games you get people who don't care about win because they get rewarded for losing. > > > > Still not sure how a dying PvP mode can/will be competitive. Didn't they try that with E-sports or whatever? How'd that work out again? > > GW2 esports was actually pretty big during core days. It just died bc of the bunker meta during HoT that made every match boring af to watch. > @"JTGuevara.9018" said: > I'm just shaking my head.... > > This spvp community has become even _more_ of a cesspool since I've quit. I'm confident without a shadow of a doubt, this attitude is primarily driven by two things: no 5v5 queues and the reward tracks! With 5v5 queues, people can prevent this attitude from taking place. Reward tracks are just there to entice and shuffle primary pve players to get them to play pvp. Solo queuers who AFK and troll simply do...not...care. There's just...no accountability involved lmao! > > Then again, I'm not surprised at this mess. This has been going on since the removal of 5v5 ranked queues. See, this is why stopped playing ranked. This BS is not competitive in the slightest. Yeah, ANet essentially killed off its own competitive scene with changes it had made to its Ranked mode and how one queues for it. The complete removal of 5 player queues was a massive mistake that likely seemed like a good idea at the time, they even ran a poll for if things should change (on the forums) and those who voted for it, honestly, likely were **not** seeing things clearly as to the longer term repercussions to doing such a thing. ANet had iterated on ensuring full 5 player premades didn't get paired against smaller groups in the past with their matchmaking, but they tried everything under the sun **except** restricting Ranked to 5 player queue only *or* having a solo/duo queue separate from a 5 player queue. Either of those would have been a more ideal solutions than just **completely removing** 5 player teams being able to queue in Ranked. In fact that very change to their queues is likely what prompted ESL to only **4 months later** shut down its GW2 section. Quite a "shocker" that **this**: "Solo/Duo Queue: Due to the results of a recent community poll, rosters in Season 5 are now limited to a maximum size of 2 in Ranked Arena." https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-12-13#Structured_Player_vs._Player Lead to **this**: https://massivelyop.com/2017/04/04/esl-gaming-is-shutting-down-guild-wars-2s-e-sports-section/ Its almost as if ANet bending backwards for the severely casual side of the community lead to the competitive side of the game getting crushed under the weight of those decisions. Even today we still see the repercussions of that **one** decision and that **one** poll. It shows in how atrocious the balance in the game got, how atrocious Ranked has been for **years** now since then, how power creep has gotten worse. GW2 was/is not different to WoW in this regard. It has followed nearly the **same** trend. WoW's first expansion, The Burning Crusade, brought with it a pretty fantastic PvP experience with Arenas being introduced and the competitive sphere of PvP grew substantially. Then the more "casual" players complained, whined, wanted things buffed that didn't need to be buffed, wanted things changed that didn't really need to be changed (at least not in the way that they were) and then we got WOTLK's PvP with facerolling Ret Paladins and 2v2 matches that were like 90% just mirror matches with DKs and Resto Druids maybe a few Ret Pally with Resto Druid. Not to mention each subsequent expansion in WoW, of course by its own nature, just power crept damage and stats in general. Again...GW2 was not exempt from this. HoT's competitive scene wasn't the greatest with the bunker meta being as annoying as it was but it isn't like they made balance better with PoF, and the changes to the Ranked queue (making it exclusively solo/duo) did sPvP no favors, not to mention the power creep from boons across all of the classes that we kept seeing over and over again even up until recently (Tactics Warrior). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > how to remove even more players from pvp > earn nothing for losing > lets punish all players because bots and afkers instead of just fixing bots and afkers > > This would be the worst choice they can make Fix the cause dont fight symptoms and pushing real players at the same time. > How else besides removing their reward for doing it would they actually go about fixing the problem of bots/afkers long-term? Banning them? A bot will just make another alt, and I seriously doubt an AFK player would be punished all that harshly if at all. To compare, when people who go out of their way to match manipulate and boost accounts they get 3-month dishonor, and that takes much more intricate planning, effort, and actual money in some cases. It's also a whole lot more work for Arenanet in the long run too. Anyway, I like @"Psycoprophet.8107" 's idea. Move pips to unranked. To add to that, Unranked pips ought to be earned at the usual or even a lesser rate than what we have now and on top of that only Ranked wins, but much more could be given for Ranked wins. These two ideas could be easily combined to help aid the people who actually want to play Ranked to compete, and the people who just want rewards and nothing else. > I wouldnt touch pvp if i was told there was a chance i wont get anything for each game if i lose. > This will also make people more toxic as a result creating a new problem Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I need any added grind at all to make Ranked enjoyable. Pips feel like jingle keys and i'm no baby... ~~usually~~ Also maybe just me, but I find the most toxic type of player in this game to be like the people the OP is showing. The one's that feel all entitled and ruin other people's days just to get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > Well that's what happens when you reward losing. > > > > > > Winning should be emphasized. Losing should not give any silver/reward track progress to discourage bots and AFKers. > > > > how to remove even more players from pvp > > earn nothing for losing > > lets punish all players because bots and afkers instead of just fixing bots and afkers > > > > This would be the worst choice they can make Fix the cause dont fight symptoms and pushing real players at the same time. > > > > How else besides removing their reward for doing it would they actually go about fixing the problem of bots/afkers long-term? > > Banning them? A bot will just make another alt, and I seriously doubt an AFK player would be punished all that harshly if at all. To compare, when people who go out of their way to match manipulate and boost accounts they get 3-month dishonor, and that takes much more intricate planning, effort, and actual money in some cases. > It's also a whole lot more work for Arenanet in the long run too. The thing is would it really fix the problem? Lets say they do this idea but bots and afkers continue to play anyways because obviously while it would slow down the rate of rewards its not exactly promising that there wont be any especially in the cases of bots fighting other bots. At the same time you must consider the players who actually do play the game and how it immediately effects them. This idea could produce more stressful environments which causes more frustration and more toxic attitudes in matches (for those who do care about rewards). So while it "might" solve issue of bots (with some luck) it likely makes the issue of afkers and other ill behavior worse. The afk problem is only going to be solved with harsh lessons unfortunately because its a real person at the controls who decides to take such an action. If you don't teach people that there are punishments for their actions they will continue to do those actions and taking rewards away is not really a punishment. Its more like "oh well" kind of deal. If you should rip away a players rewards especially from players who do this afk thing the moment something does not go their way. Imagine a match and the team is behind person goes with the "oh well" thought process and would afk anyways which does not stop the behavior. As much of a nice idea that you only get rewards if you win "should be" as a motivator not all players will see it this way. An ideal system (maybe) would be one which players on both sides can just vote to kick the afk player while at the same time baring them from matchmaking for a set time. This could be considered worse than standard disconnection dishonor and block them from matching for a considerably longer time period even on the first offense. Perhaps at a set number of offenses within say a day or a week the person is barred from match making for a set number of days. Or people with afk counts only get matched with other players that have high afk counts. The only draw back of a system like this is people who use it abusively and attempt to kick people who might make common or a simple mistake thats not that big of a deal. Which could backfire. Its not a perfect idea but there are other options i think anet should take first before just out right ripping rewards. I very much dislike the carpet bombing method of trying to solve issues like this where the good and the bad will be punished just because we want to get rid of the bad. Such ideas should always be the last resorts applied if all others methods have failed. > > Anyway, I like @"Psycoprophet.8107" 's idea. Move pips to unranked. To add to that, Unranked pips ought to be earned at the usual or even a lesser rate than what we have now and on top of that only Ranked wins, but much more could be given for Ranked wins. These two ideas could be easily combined to help aid the people who actually want to play Ranked to compete, and the people who just want rewards and nothing else. > > > I wouldnt touch pvp if i was told there was a chance i wont get anything for each game if i lose. > > This will also make people more toxic as a result creating a new problem > > Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I need any added grind at all to make Ranked enjoyable. Pips feel like jingle keys and i'm no baby... ~~usually~~ > Also maybe just me, but I find the most toxic type of player in this game to be like the people the OP is showing. The one's that feel all entitled and ruin other people's days just to get what they want. His idea is not a bad one and it would be worth anet considering for sure. While it also likely wont solve the problem its a bit better of an idea than just the carpet bomb method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycura.1982 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"Gamble.4580" said: > Everyone is toxic it takes that sort to enjoy pvp. When you're right you're right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"Ghetx.1752" said: > https://imgur.com/a/nFNqSxC > > This type of behavior is sole reason of why you do NOT progress. > > I just don't know who's idea was to design chest progress like this > > Long time ago,when you gained/lost pips based on win/lose pvp was much better. > > People are going to join with mentality 'oh i need to lose 100 games in order to obtain ascended pvp backpack,tons of pvp tickets,gold and transmutation charges,so i won't even bother to win' and same those people are going to ruin your whole games. > > The true mentality actually is, 'PvP is a Toxic mess anyways, so why not l lose 100 games in order to obtain ascended pvp backpack,tons of pvp tickets,gold and transmutation charges,so i won't even bother to win' sorry, I do not blame them one bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTGuevara.9018 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"Alin.2468" said: > There is a saying: **Don't hate the player hate the game**. Remember that in late 2016 players, in huge majority, [voted](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-poll-soloduo-queue/) for SoloQ only, therefore teams (with team-play) got completely removed from ranked. We need to accept our own vote and embrace the current _status quo_. > > Botting is nothing but a side effect of enforced SoloQ. If teams were to be allowed, all bots would be demolished, just like in the old days of PvP. However, we voted to play alone and farm PvP alone, because we wanted this current easy farm with rewards for loosing, uninterrupted by teams with real-time voice coordination. > > Please stop blaming other players for trying to farm in the best way they see fit; it's their game too, and they paid for this product and voted for it, just like you did. Because of that SoloQ vote, all players (bots included) actually have a common ground; and the fact that it lasted so far, means it's a huge success. I know this may be hard to believe, but it's also the truth. I have a saying too: **Hate them both.** See, ya can't have it both ways. You say don't blame the players even though you specifically make the case why. I am not letting the players off the hook that easily for farming, since they are likely the ones that voted for no team queue in the first place. Don't forget, there are those of us who voted no. Now, if you're there specifically to farm and AFK during matches at your team's expense, you _should_ be blamed. Sorry, but I take a _firm_ stand against this. It's a matter of principle as well as courtesy to others. Of course, all of this applies only if you keep playing this spvp thing, which I'm not! I play other games and I'm cautiously waiting until this major update to see what happens. (Disclaimer: I don't 'hate' players, it's too strong of a word for people in the Internet I don't know personally, I just hold them accountable for ruining spvp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratan.4619 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 PvE farmer here, I am not as bad as the guy OP is referencing, but I am not going out of my way to learn rotations, adjust a PvP build, etc. I just run around in whatever set up my char has for PvE and do what I can during the match. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 With the differents build templates available it might actually disencourage people even more to make a dedicated PvP build. Since that slow now can be used for PvE. (Instead of having separate PvP tabs.) If people only play 1 build though ... they should use one of the other templates for PvP. Maybe asking for advice. The "more fun" should be enough of a reason. If they don't want (like kratan) no one should force them. The "sometimes we win and sometimes we lose" should be enough to keep them in the lower rankings. Going afk seems more of a problem - if it even is on purpose. From what I have understood some players play as good as possible to climb ranks ... then they feel it is too hard to get wins and they sabotage on purpose to lose and drop ranks (where it easier to get wins cause they then are underrated and fighting weaker opponents). That sucks. I had a guy where I thought he might be sabotaging. Constantly on points that needed to be capped he waited and I left and he still waited (so I thought he'd cap) but only to see that he then left the point almost capped ... but still white. Annoying. That makes the difference when at the end the match was pretty close and we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorstienn.1642 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"kratan.4619" said: > PvE farmer here, I am not as bad as the guy OP is referencing, but I am not going out of my way to learn rotations, adjust a PvP build, etc. I just run around in whatever set up my char has for PvE and do what I can during the match. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. I honestly think the level the OP is talking about is rare, but you do see plenty of afk's after they have "determined" the game is a loss. As far as you specifically, I'd have no problem with players like you (or many pve farmers, that I'd imagine majority at least play in the match) as your rating would most likely still reflect your ability. The only issue would come from small populations leading to poor Matchmaking. Re. The topic at hand. The answer is NOT to remove rewards. That will just kill the playerbase as the vast majority dont want to "waste" ~10mins for nothing. It wont stop afkers per se either, just change them to "rush the enemy" feeders to speed up the loss and move on, or they will just get carried and win anyway. Bots will still exist as there rating will drop and through shear number of games played they will still get wins. To improve pvp need "some" effort from Anet. 1. Balance, which is what they are doing now. 2. Solo q and team q, Swiss might cover the team q we'll see, but duo needs to go. 3. Restrict f2p accounts to unranked, perhaps team q as that would be "pre arranged grouping (if you purchased the original game your NOT restricted). This will limit smurf/manipulation accounts and also apply a "cost" to account punishments, for I believe a limited reduction in active players. 4. Hammer down on bots; they wont pop up so fast as there is an associated cost. Them being in unranked is a seperate yet far less affecting issue. 5. Afkers. Reports need to be looked into more regularly and appropriate action taken. I'd add a report threshold (5/6 in a match, or 10+ over 4 matches etc) that gives an instant 24hr dishonour or something. Obviously depending on the balance patch, I think these changes could actually lead to a far better pvp experience that could actually attract more players. Edit: added f2p to team based gameplay, as seems appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 > @"Luthan.5236" said: > With the differents build templates available it might actually disencourage people even more to make a dedicated PvP build. Since that slow now can be used for PvE. (Instead of having separate PvP tabs.) > > If people only play 1 build though ... they should use one of the other templates for PvP. Maybe asking for advice. The "more fun" should be enough of a reason. If they don't want (like kratan) no one should force them. The "sometimes we win and sometimes we lose" should be enough to keep them in the lower rankings. > > Going afk seems more of a problem - if it even is on purpose. From what I have understood some players play as good as possible to climb ranks ... then they feel it is too hard to get wins and they sabotage on purpose to lose and drop ranks (where it easier to get wins cause they then are underrated and fighting weaker opponents). > > That sucks. I had a guy where I thought he might be sabotaging. Constantly on points that needed to be capped he waited and I left and he still waited (so I thought he'd cap) but only to see that he then left the point almost capped ... but still white. Annoying. That makes the difference when at the end the match was pretty close and we lost. I see this all the time and type in chat asking if player knows how capping works cuz I think some players legit don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisty.4135 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just my two cents - I try every game. But if it's 200-10 in 3 minutes because my team's getting farmed on respawn, the rewards make the absolute stomp of a game bearable. It's these rewards that make the game mode enticing for me in the first place, since I don't like the titles or trinkets from the leaderboards and don't have time to play tourneys. Without the rewards even on loss there'd be little substanial reason for me to play it over say, WvW. Glory is nice and all, but ultimately meaningless. Give me a reason to keep playing even through a loss streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 For me it is more fun than WvW. Cause I like the short fast paced matches. (Also better than games like "LoL".) I understand the issue with the rewards though. Would be better to have them reduced (but still not completely removed) for a loss. (Atm it seems it is already the case with getting less pips for losses. That seems okay.) 200-10 after a few mins ... can be possible to come back if the enemies make huge mistakes or get a disconnect in mid of the game. Or if the own team had an extremely bad start. Voting to surrender would be nice though. But I guess this could be abused. (If it only was possible to vote while already being 200 points behind the enemy team and needing 4 of 5 votes ... would be nice to safe some time and end the match earlier.) I play for fun and achievements and stuff (some Llama minis lol) and the gold is nice to get on top since I'm not a big PvE farmer. (It is boring to farm/grind.) Tournaments ... yeah ... I'm not good enough to participate in tournament groups. But if there was a random queue for tournaments I'd try that as well. (Matchmaking like in the queue atm but with some time to get used to the group/party you are playing with. This is imo a big problem with the random queme that you'd actually need to play a few matches with the same team to get "attuned" to them. Learning which guy can go solo, which guy might need help in 1 vs. 1, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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