Yes, another thread about thieves. Nerfs are required.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker.

> >

> > Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth.

> > Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam.

>

> Hahaha omg u guys are really out to delete thief eh wow.

> Thank god I doubt that would ever happen. Theres asking for reasonable shaves and then there's idea's like this lol maybe we should increase ini cost more to while were at it so one skill uses up all its resources so it can't fight back, after all that's ur plan no?

 

They will NEVER remove the leap.

 

Thief and the dagger set is designed around stealth, combo finishers are a jewel to the game.

 

These guys have an agenda, but Anet has spotted them.

 

10k maclicious backstab in wvw....lol pathetic.

 

roll back not to long ago and you could do about 23-30k

 

(dude also admits to being zerk lmao)

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker.

> > >

> > > Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth.

> > > Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam.

> >

> > Hahaha omg u guys are really out to delete thief eh wow.

> > Thank god I doubt that would ever happen. Theres asking for reasonable shaves and then there's idea's like this lol maybe we should increase ini cost more to while were at it so one skill uses up all its resources so it can't fight back, after all that's ur plan no?

>

> They will NEVER remove the leap.

>

> Thief and the dagger set is designed around stealth, combo finishers are a jewel to the game.

>

> These guys have an agenda, but Anet has spotted them.

>

> 10k maclicious backstab in wvw....lol pathetic.

>

> roll back not to long ago and you could do about 23-30k

>

> (dude also admits to being zerk lmao)

 

Aaand that's the thread summed up. Thanks for comming folks, see you in the next one. o/

[Stand The Wall.6987]


 

somehow 3 characters short

 

[Dante.1508]

Thieves need a massive overhaul... especially in pve.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> Nerf condi thieves.

> Leave the ones that die when you breathe in their general direction alone.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

NUUUU LIES!

[TheGrimm.5624]

Perma stealth and near on perma stealth should not be a thing, have to agree there.

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker.

>

> Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth.

> Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam.

 

I whole heartedly support this. It’s a really sneaky nerf that has high impact on playstyle without touching damage.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"ens.9854" said:

> Looks like you didn't even react. Also it only does 8k when you are <25% (its a finisher move) and probably have only 5k health. i.e. you would have died even if they nerfed it by another 33%. The finisher damage only matters in rare situations that thief finds a low health tank.

>

> Glass thief not in a great spot right now as 90% of meta builds will ignore their burst. I feel for you playing warrior though they are in an even worse. Should probably be asking for war buffs not thief nerfs.

 

Well on 2,4k Armor got hit by 15k vaults in zergs and 14k malicious backstab.

 

Thief is definetly overtuned atm.

[Doug.4930]

> @"sayori.4836" said:

> Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay.

> have played warrior since the beginning,

 

Account with very few posts. Plays zerker warrior. Claims to be a vet. Core warrior profile picture. Hates thieves......

 

Is..... is that you hitman?

[alain.1659]

People are always defending any build with: well zergs dont have x so it is not that op.

 

Well news to you guys, people dont complain about op builds in zergs. People are actually not that bothered dying when they zerg. People get angry when they get killed while roaming, when it is 1v1 or 1vx, when they are trying to reach their zerg or even just cap a camp. That is why no matter what you do, roaming professions will get the nerf hammer in the end. Nobody cares about firebrands and scourges in zergs. But everyone will cry about thieves, mesmers, rangers, engineers etc. Why? Because they are roamers. And their builds, heck even their professions are designed to roam effectively. Havoc squads are in the middle of this fight.

 

A profession that is designed to deal heavy single target damage "should" deal heavy single target damage. And you should be at disadvantage vs it. Why the hell those medium armor professions exist in wvw then? Why the heck does mesmer explanation has "duelist" in it? Anet does not want to give a proper place to those professions in zergs, as they nerf their valid zerg builds mostly. So they should be roaming and yes they should be at advantage in 1v1 situations.

I am not saying that the game is ok now, it is not. More nerfs or some buffs are needed. But no matter what they do, those professions should have the upper hand in combat.

Another solution would be to give them valid zerg builds and enable them to join zergs but I don't think that will happen any day soon.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Antipode.7830" said:

> Malicious Backstab* - this still looks like a Deadeye problem. Deadeye is a pain in the kitten. Part of the big damage here is probably because of huge might stacks and malice.

 

As I suspected... traits iteration issue, sounds easy to balance/fix.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > I knew it. heartseek OP

> > **nerf teef**

>

> > @"sayori.4836" said:

> > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

> >

> > 

> >

> **+1**

>

> **Thief Profession Immunity To Nerfings continues.....**

>

> Heartseeker

> (notice the date>>>>**Sep 7, 2012**<<<<)

>

>

>

> Backstab

> (notice the date>>>>**Nov 14, 2012**<<<<)

>

>

> -this really never gets old-

>

> 8 years later.........**WHERE ARE THE 'NERFS!!!!!''????**

 

The nerfs have what made theif today. There is nothing left apart from condi theif or 1 shot perma stealth, most "normal" theif builds got nerfed too much to bother putting effort to play them, not when you can just mark/assassins signet burst.

[LetoII.3782]

Keep nerfing til I can just walk up and 100 blades ftw

[Strider.7849]

> @"sayori.4836" said:

> Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

>

> 

>

 

All I can say is you guys really need to play a glassy thief with D/P. Try it: mauraders armor, marauders amulet, rest of the pieces all berserker. Rune is up to you - but needs to be power based. I think if you play the class you'll one, learn how to fight it and two gain a better respect for what your enemy is doing. It really is one of those classes that only seems OP when you don't know what their skills do or how to watch for what they will do next.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"sayori.4836" said:

> > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

> >

> > 

> >

>

> All I can say is you guys really need to play a glassy thief with D/P. Try it: mauraders armor, marauders amulet, rest of the pieces all berserker. Rune is up to you - but needs to be power based. I think if you play the class you'll one, learn how to fight it and two gain a better respect for what your enemy is doing. It really is one of those classes that only seems OP when you don't know what their skills do or how to watch for what they will do next.

 

if that damage drops somewhere to 5-7kish that would be ok but they need to pressure bunkers as well, maybe Anet needs to reduce some quoficients but increase base damage, that would kinda fix the very high damages, or revise some thief traits to make some elite traits only work with the elite designed weapon.

 

It would still hurt, base damage would be better.

Also stealth is a another monster that must be spagethincoded all over this years, deadeye stealth traits should only work with a rifle, and perma stealth needs to be addressed.

 

 

[ilMasa.2546]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"sayori.4836" said:

> > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

> >

> > 

> >

>

> I think if you play the class you'll one, learn how to fight it and two gain a better respect for what your enemy is doing. It really is one of those classes that only seems OP when you don't know what their skills do or how to watch for what they will do next.

 

Stealth so good u can be a clicker and win anyway.... :p

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"ilMasa.2546" said:

 

> Stealth so good u can be a clicker and win anyway.... :p

>

>

 

Yea, this video literally shows Stealth carrying a "low skilled" player due to how frequent a DE can enter it.

 

Like seriously guys, he didn't even use Dagger/Pistol but can pop in and out of Stealth + remove Revealed multiple times in a single fight.

 

With SA traits, yu can easily get 2 free instances of Stealth using Steal and Heal skill, with 2 slot utilities yu can still get more instances of Stealth, and in DE's case, they can use remove revealed and stealth - twice.

 

This is all without D/P, which adds to this by enabling infinite Stealth application.

 

And we still have people blatantly arguing that Stealth is not op, it's fine, and that it's for skilled players.

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"alain.1659" said:

> People are always defending any build with: well zergs dont have x so it is not that op.

>

> Well news to you guys, people dont complain about op builds in zergs. People are actually not that bothered dying when they zerg. People get angry when they get killed while roaming, when it is 1v1 or 1vx, when they are trying to reach their zerg or even just cap a camp. That is why no matter what you do, roaming professions will get the nerf hammer in the end. Nobody cares about firebrands and scourges in zergs. But everyone will cry about thieves, mesmers, rangers, engineers etc. Why? Because they are roamers. And their builds, heck even their professions are designed to roam effectively. Havoc squads are in the middle of this fight.

>

> A profession that is designed to deal heavy single target damage "should" deal heavy single target damage. And you should be at disadvantage vs it. Why the hell those medium armor professions exist in wvw then? Why the heck does mesmer explanation has "duelist" in it? Anet does not want to give a proper place to those professions in zergs, as they nerf their valid zerg builds mostly. So they should be roaming and yes they should be at advantage in 1v1 situations.

> I am not saying that the game is ok now, it is not. More nerfs or some buffs are needed. But no matter what they do, those professions should have the upper hand in combat.

> Another solution would be to give them valid zerg builds and enable them to join zergs but I don't think that will happen any day soon.

 

This^ but I say have u seen the threads in this forum? Did u expect different? Lol. Classes cam condi bomb groups, cleanse groups, drop good and impactful aoe's and in general add multiple things to a zerg but a staff thief has high single target dps and...... lol yeah nerf it so its completely useless in a zerg cuz who cares right if u don't play it

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > I knew it. heartseek OP

> > > **nerf teef**

> >

> > > @"sayori.4836" said:

> > > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> > > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> > > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> > > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > **+1**

> >

> > **Thief Profession Immunity To Nerfings continues.....**

> >

> > Heartseeker

> > (notice the date>>>>**Sep 7, 2012**<<<<)

> >

> >

> >

> > Backstab

> > (notice the date>>>>**Nov 14, 2012**<<<<)

> >

> >

> > -this really never gets old-

> >

> > 8 years later.........**WHERE ARE THE 'NERFS!!!!!''????**

>

> The nerfs have what made theif today. There is nothing left apart from condi theif or 1 shot perma stealth, most "normal" theif builds got nerfed too much to bother putting effort to play them, not when you can just mark/assassins signet burst.

 

This^ from the years of bad players constantly flooding the forums with constant nerf thief threads instead of improving their own game no more are there any actually mechanically interesting thief playstyle as they've had to resort to gimmick builds or simply spamming the one or 2 effective skills over and over. I donno how sind can play thief solely.

D/p used to be high skill using interups with PI and didn't rely on perma stealth back stabs as it's only damage source. All dp is now is permastealth backstab-->HS and repeat.

S/D is s2 and s3 spam whoa so fun

Staff thief vault and bount with occasional WS.

Pp is a joke in pvp

S/p pw spam again so fun

Condi thief apply condi covers thru dodge and few attacks than back off before repeat so fun lol.

U guys need to learn the difference of overperforming and annoying.

[appelflap.8310]

Just give players in stealth dmg over time after 2-3secs of stealth, that way players in stealth will have to choose to be aggressive or not and gives the other players a window to counter or an idea of what the player in stealth is up to. Ofcourse perma stealth would still be in the game but atleast the player with (perma)stealth will get punished and not ONLY rewarded like it is now.

Im posting this here since thief is the only class that can permastealth, but this should apply to all sources of stealth.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker.

>

> Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth.

> Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam.

 

Nah, heartseeker ini cost should be increased, so they cant spam it 3 or 4 times for stealth.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2.

> >

> > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc.

> >

> > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage.

>

> A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1.

> One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend.

 

Use a sigil for quickness and save a utility slot.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> > > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2.

> > >

> > > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc.

> > >

> > > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage.

> >

> > A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1.

> > One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend.

>

> Use a sigil for quickness and save a utility slot.

 

Frenzy is also a stun break

[Anput.4620]

Wait so youre saying your eviscerate doesn't take away 80% of the zerker DE's health?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> > > > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2.

> > > >

> > > > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc.

> > > >

> > > > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage.

> > >

> > > A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1.

> > > One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend.

> >

> > Use a sigil for quickness and save a utility slot.

>

> Frenzy is also a stun break

 

And 400 powa