Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Bazooka.3590" said:

> > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm

> > > Sooo kitten booooooooring.

> > > Nerf them to the ground.

> >

> > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage.

> >

> > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta.

> . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge.

> That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point.

> Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words.

> A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted.

Nobody said anything about improv. If you want to fix the relationship between improv and Daggerstorm, that's fine.

Objectively the skill is functioning as a stopgap, however. Improvisation is RNG anyway. If they can find a way to modify the trait so it is more reliable and also doesnt lead to daggerstorm chaining, that's fine.

> . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge.

> That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point.

Agreed.

I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. It is like the only defense they have that isnt hard countered by several passives in the game at the moment, though. It needs to functionally remain how it is for sustain purposes right now.

Don't you dare dream of pouring this vileness into pve in any respect. The PvE/WvW community are still by and large sane.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Not gonna go into detail but uh, this kitten poor match quality concerning the algorithm and unchecked manipulation has become too much for me to handle. It's been good times boys, but I've got to walk away from this. With any luck, maybe I'll find a new game with a more fair & clean competitive scene.

See ya. Hope to see you again if morale has a reason to be restored.

> @"bladezero.9470" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > **sips lemonade**

> >

> > I like this post because it suggests that some arbitrary algorithm can identify and mitigate smurfing, locking top players to play amongst themselves is a good idea, and that easy mode isn't itself specifically the handful of meta builds that have run over and all but erased build diversity.

> >

> > Good work champ. You did it.

>

> The algorithm doesn't have to work very hard if the incentive to Smurf is removed.

>

> Top players currently Smurf to manipulate the ranking system. Top players may also try hard in unranked to practice teams or new builds (although this now mostly happens in private arenas and private in houses).

>

> There would be no incentive for someone to want to Smurf a hypothetical Easy-mode.

If unranked is rewarded at all, smurfing will be a problem. People don't smurf simply because of the ranking. They smurf because something they want (titles/clout) is tied to the ranking. If unranked so much as provides good gold per match, there will be people smurfing to grind it.

You cannot put novices all in one place and give them an incentive to be there without people attempting to game the system.

> @"Bazooka.3590" said:

> Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm

> Sooo kitten booooooooring.

> Nerf them to the ground.

Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage.

Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta.

**sips lemonade**

I like this post because it suggests that some arbitrary algorithm can identify and mitigate smurfing, locking top players to play amongst themselves is a good idea, and that easy mode isn't itself specifically the handful of meta builds that have run over and all but erased build diversity.

Good work champ. You did it.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Allowing teams in ranked would be unfair because those teams could balance out their composition to work well and complement each other’s roles better than a pugs. They could communicate with voice comms and make faster decisions and using this they can also guide a team mate who is struggling to make the correct decision with positive constructive criticism. This is especially unfair because they can adjust a weaker players actions without hurting their feelings. They will all be on the same page, working in unison towards the same goal. They can let team mates know that something went wrong and work is on its way mid or wherever. No one would quit on this team against the hardest challenge or against the best players because you never know, this coordination might be able to trump skill if the difference is not as great as believed. That would be really bad if the best players lost to a team. That team would think they were good, een though in reality they were just carried by the team. Shaking my kitten head, the team carried the team. Teams are only for ATs, because a team based game mode is best played solo and bitterly while complaining about your bots for team mates and wondering why they are throwing or giving up against Baruto and Hellburger Helper. Playing with more than 1 friend at a time is actually unhealthy for the game, and those types will just manipulate the leaderboard. Go to unranked because you can’t work towards any nice pvp items or loot there, but you get your precious teams. This isn’t an MMORPG fool. This is an ISORPG (I solo or role play game). Playing well with others and making group decisions is not a skill idiot. That is match manipulation. I don’t care if you don’t have a schedule that doesn’t allow you to participate in the tourneys that the game has for you. Why does it have to be ranked? Is it because you earn more gold and rewards for participation? I mean, like, who the hell cares about loot if you care about pvp? The answer is no. No, not maybe, no. Don’t try to ruin my fun. When I get off work I just want to play with myself.

*Applause*

Mind the poe's law\10, top marks.

*Quietly filing nails*

Good question.

Wonder why.

> @"Rouien.5234" said:

> I remember when Heart of Thorn first came out and when a few weeks after condis got out of control. Like, it was so bad that when playing my support guardian I was running 'Save Yourself', used it during a mid fight and got an **exclamation mark** of bleeds, poison and confusion..

>

> And as I looked for a place to go lay down right before my .5 seconds of resistance went away, drowning in conditions with no help in sight, I thought to myself..

>

> "Well, at least pvp won't get worse from here."

> Coming back now, it looks like I played myself.

This format should be a thing by the way.

unfortunately, in theory, the moment this becomes a meme it will be done poorly.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> I don't see much whining lately, as much as I see honest to god feedback.

Oh nono, I agree with this. There wasn't any implication behind my use of the term 'whining' apart from my personal jaded view of my own forum complaints.

> @"Reikou.7068" said:

> people won't play a game that isn't enjoyable[.]

I'm just lurking right now and opting out of continuously whining about this and that and the other, but it would behoove everyone that has something to lose, whether it be developer or player alike, to remember the above. You can do or advocate whatever you like in terms of mechanics, but if the thing you're building is not enjoyable for all parties involved on some level, it will fall apart eventually.

Eventually, people will question why they put up with X and Y and decide not to. That's the natural course for most people.

Keep in mind that a kill at any point during the game is only worth 5 points, and if you could have capped a node in the time it took you to kill that opponent, it would have likely paid for itself far sooner.

Fighting on point has poor applications, yes. You dont want to 1v2 as glass or 1v3 on point as a bunker. In those situations peeling people off the point or leaving would be best. In most cases though , "Fight on point" is thrown out because it is a short way of notifying someone who has gotten themselves kited out into the wilderness vs distraction while the point remains uncapped/enemy capped that they're not doing their job by chasing that player. Even if they manage to kill that player, the time tick on the point would have paid for the 5 points you get for killing them, and any smart team would know that their ally has baited you there and will be on their way to clean you up/pick up their teammate.

It doesnt apply to every case, or even in general. It's a kinder way of saying "do your job, you're being kited."

I'm glad this is being looked at.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> I'm curious as to what people think about the idea of having a beta season where ranked is a 3 man que, 3 players per team only.

Premade? **kitten sure**.

Pug? **Hit or miss.**

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> maybe just allow team queue again..

> punish win traders and throwers.. they are speeding up the death of this mode. used to be a plat problem but now it happens from silver upwards.

> no one wants to play with that and appears most havent.

+1 for this. The sole reason Ive been skipping ranking is because I have to pray that 4 people:

*dont get tilted

*dont get bribed

*dont have hardware issues

*know what theyre doing

before I even have a shot at actually figuring out how to win the damn match.

And given that almost everyone in pvp is tilted one way or another, its almost a guarantee that someone will AFK or throw to boost opposing team because they're tired of people on their team afking and want the title real bad.

Not worth my time. I have so many other things I can do with 15 minutes that aren't "trusting 4 people I don't know will do their jobs when there is incentive for them to not do so".

also BuFf ThIeF

Yeah. Sure. If it gets the balance in order, you can give me a sub or charge access to pvp.

I'm willing to pitch in gem/moneywise if it gets us:

*A transparent view as to what the devs currently consider balance and why they consider things balanced, as well as plans for balancing/adjusting in the near future

*More frequent balance patches

*Some kind of frequent discourse between developers and players as to why certain playstyles are the way they are (A pvp devstream would be nice.)

*A team of devs actively playing with/against what they push into the game

Thanks for the constructive post, even if its regarding helping Anet see more ways to take money from my wallet. Kinda needed a bit more eyes actively suggesting how to fix things .

Make no mistake though. if the service to the game mode does not address at the very least the major issues with its current state, I'm leaving. I am willing to help motivate, not be exploited.

Sometimes I wonder how the PVP balance team views us, or whether they think what we generally ask for is undeliverable and/or not worth the trouble of actually having presence in the forums.

Then I realize that really isn't my question to answer and go do something else.

The balance is the root of the toxicity and the lack of population in general, compounded by the fact that people cant put together premades to __counter__ the cheese because __premades are disallowed.__

I dont blame people for being harassment levels of angry in pvp. Getting annoyed to death by builds that can both do heavy damage from range and then run away when you manage to get close to them would ruin anyone's mood if it happens enough times.

Let it be low.

It's a waste of a perfectly good combat system to be sure, but let it be low.

1.) Leaderboards and ranking rewards that foster a toxic competitive environment, and a matchmaking system that forces people to play with the aforementioned toxic players.

2.) The removal of premades from ranking, which disincentivised PVP for people who had friends they wanted to play/train with, and forced the remainder of the community to queue with people they would never match up with.

3.) Builds that utilize toxic mechanics or a toxic combination of mechanics running rampant in the aforementioned environment not being actively or frequently vetted by any developers for excessively long periods of time. Patch changes in the middle of competitive seasons that could cause any training done beforehand to be useless.

*Squints*

Hold on a second there, you might be on to something-

Better some people get dishonor for hardware issues than leave any room for people who want to ragequit to do so punishment free.

If you get caught manipulating a match at any point, any PVP related items you have gained on that account should be retroactively removed permanently, and that account should be stuck with dishonor for at least a couple of seasons.

Also, only accounts that have at least purchased core should be able to pvp in ranked matches during season, to prevent smurfing.

I have a little nonverbal chart for how I usually behave when downed

If it was GG and I am not on the point, I wont do anything to you.

If:

* it was GG, and I think hammer toss is gonna buy me time to vengeance,

* I see a teammate coming

* I'm on the point

I'm gonna throw hammer AND junk at you.

If it was GG but I think you're a cheeky little kitten I'm going to throw hammer at you then let you stomp me.

/w everyone other than the person I hate

"I'll give you a gold to report that person I hate for afking"

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > Who runs .... such bs builds? NA... ?

> > Nobody runs bs builds. I'm just whispering a counter to that specific mesmer build into the wind.

> >

> > > Why even mal 7 over extra damage from quickness?

> >

> > Because you're not using rifle, you become free to use premeditation, which gives you 6% damage boost on top of the 300 power might gen if you hit 7 stacks.

> > Because your focus is backstab, the only telegraph presented to the opponent other than the mark is the full malice voice line/its visual.

> > Specifically for fighting that mesmer build mentioned, you don't want quickness since its invuln chain is only rarely vulnerable. you want your only strike to down the mesmer.

> >

> > It sure as hell isn't a meta build but it can break mesmers without even running Deadly arts. It's essentially old core thief with a telegraph.

> >

> > If you wanna hear more about BS builds I have this Mace/Shield Sage Mallyx Herald that can beat Holosmiths/scrappers / Those annoying scepter condi mirage builds that have started to surface.

> I have seen one renegade that running around with mallyx khalla and he is unkillable for condi builds, if you bomb him and being close when he swap legend,you are a toast and everyone who was around him xD

> Also I have no clue about who are you talking about, the guy or build some person used... Some bunker ?

Kronos is a pretty well known, skilled mesmer, he runs a kind of bunkery build that peppers you with condis occasionally until you die

As for that condi rev reflect build, yeahh it's super toxic to things like scourge. I've been polishing the [atrocity I put together here in a drunken stupor](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35313/i-i-think-condi-glint-mallyx-potato-counters-mesmer-1v1#latest "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35313/i-i-think-condi-glint-mallyx-potato-counters-mesmer-1v1#latest") for a few months