Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > ?

> >

> > Create a guild for chill people. Slowly acquire chill people. Practice in unranked. Go do tournaments.

> > Why do people think you need to give toxic players the time of day for any reason? Leave them to struggle in ranked. There's a bunch of people hanging out in duel rooms/the HoTM Arena that are also decent teammates and can also likely pull their weight in tournaments, and they can __also__ write complete sentences without being angry.

> >

> > There is literally no reason to play ranked at the moment, especially with match manipulation upsetting the higher tiers of play and basically making it a contest of who is willing to sink the most gold for an arbitrary title. If you want to have fun in pvp, go find the fun people instead of trying to tolerate the people who make it their aim to be as intolerable as possible, then claim the pvp community is dying.

>

> the thing is that ranked play is very rewarding...

> the chest pips gives lots of gold and it gives you a legendary via the Year of Ascencion... :/

I don't think lots of gold/legendaries are worth putting up with what ranked has become to be honest. Not when those things also can come if you put groups together that you actually like being around, whatever the hit to efficiency is, but I understand the reasoning.

[And tournaments are pretty lucrative too]

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> Who runs .... such bs builds? NA... ?

Nobody runs bs builds. I'm just whispering a counter to that specific mesmer build into the wind.

> Why even mal 7 over extra damage from quickness?

Because you're not using rifle, you become free to use premeditation, which gives you 6% damage boost on top of the 300 power might gen if you hit 7 stacks.

Because your focus is backstab, the only telegraph presented to the opponent other than the mark is the full malice voice line/its visual.

Specifically for fighting that mesmer build mentioned, you don't want quickness since its invuln chain is only rarely vulnerable. you want your only strike to down the mesmer.

It sure as hell isn't a meta build but it can break mesmers without even running Deadly arts. It's essentially old core thief with a telegraph.

If you wanna hear more about BS builds I have this Mace/Shield Sage Mallyx Herald that can beat Holosmiths/scrappers / Those annoying scepter condi mirage builds that have started to surface.

?

Create a guild for chill people. Slowly acquire chill people. Practice in unranked. Go do tournaments.

Why do people think you need to give toxic players the time of day for any reason? Leave them to struggle in ranked. There's a bunch of people hanging out in duel rooms/the HoTM Arena that are also decent teammates and can also likely pull their weight in tournaments, and they can __also__ write complete sentences without being angry.

There is literally no reason to play ranked at the moment, especially with match manipulation upsetting the higher tiers of play and basically making it a contest of who is willing to sink the most gold for an arbitrary title. If you want to have fun in pvp, go find the fun people instead of trying to tolerate the people who make it their aim to be as intolerable as possible, then claim the pvp community is dying.

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> One shot builds like mantra mes are balanced by the fact that they're not remotely viable in any competitive environment. Take away the ability to make all in builds like this then you're just removing build flexibility from the game.

>

> Who here has actually played one shot mantra mes lately? I have. You literally get farmed by so many classes (especially a thief or condi mes) once they know that ur running a one shot build. And that's how it should be. Farm me or I'll farm your necros etc. - plenty of counterplay there, just dont let the mantra mes free cast. Have map awareness or get punished for not having it.

>

> Case in point - MLGKorno farmed me yesterday so badly while i was playing mantra mes. I've never been farmed that hard b4 in a game. He just ignored my teammates and waited for me to spawn and cut me off from doing anything the entire game. He kept tabs on me like i was a Tijuana hooker. It was pretty awful and glorious at the same time. It also made me realize how much i suck. Oof.

Psst.

That build he runs is allergic to D/P Deadeyes running mal 7. He can't put pressure on you and one backstab puts his hp to panic mode if it doesn't outright kill him. If you don't mind taking a hit to your decap potential you can disable Krono in a match w/it.

You didn't hear that from me though.

> @"tacoclaw.8251" said:

> What class has the most cleanse? That’s all that matters anymore.

Scourges are balanced by their inability to do anything to you unless you're determined to hug them. Kite them until they burn cooldowns, run in, put damage on them and leave. Or meet them with anything that has an attack over 900r.

Never fight two of anything on your own. leave.

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> But I do want to point out that Trevor is right about a lack of trust in your team.

Agreed-

> The solution is give players an incentive to fight losing battles. Give them no reason to give up unless they are actually win trading.

And agreed. If there was some way to quantify as metrics how actively each player participated relative to their team and reward them based on that, we might be able to at the very least avoid ragequitting. That seems like a horrendously tall order to cram into an algorithm though.

> @"coro.3176" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

> >

> > * If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.

> > * if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.

> > * If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.

> > * If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.

> > * if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

> >

> > basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

>

> ^ I would add to this:

>

> * If the burst is unblockable, it should have an obvious tell (red circle on the ground, clear animation, etc.) and it should have fairly long window for the opponent to react (~0.75s). The unblockable effect should not be able to be applied to attacks that don't have these properties. (eg. Unstoppable Union, Signet of Might, etc.)

Agreed. Getting nuked by prime light beam: fine. Getting nuked by something normally blockable being unblockable, with the only indication that it is unblockable being a small square under the target's hp bar: not fine.

I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

* If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.

* if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.

* If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.

* If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.

* if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.

> Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

>

> Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded (well known guild too from ATs).. He started playing properly after that and we almost won after being down 200 points.

>

>

>

> If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

>

> End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

Every time I consider taking ranked seriously for some pipe-dream shot at a title, I get reminded of this kind of stacking.

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Not really, it need way more clic and preparation than all other burst class to do the same damage output.

I've always worried about that. People say that burst is difficult to pull off because of the above reasons, but does the ability to land a full burst combo from a safe distance/without needing to heavily weigh counterpressure unless you whiff get considered skillful simply because you have to press more buttons?

That's digression though. Let's not nerf power mesmers right now. Mantras having no telegraph is silly, but power lock as a utility is fine, and power spike has a low base damage. They still need utility given back to portal, besides.

Revenants I can take or leave. They all run shiro/glint because nobody condibombs them.

It certainly is obnoxious, but if we survived wing backpacks we will survive this. people are still enamored with their Dragon buddies, eventually the allure will wear of to the point that it's much easier to stand around where you need to be than mount and hover at a specific point, methinks.

Ehhh.

I want it too, but considering the voice acting, the model animations, the outfitting, etc, I dunno if I -want- want it.

As for the personal story hangup

Mmmmaybe just have a brief personal story as a Tengu that drops them into an XPack associated map? We all kind of know that much of Tengu life is -fighting destroyers behind walls-, so we don't need a whole lot of world building there IMO. It doesnt need to be the same as every other races or even that long. Just lock them unless you have a level 80 char already, and then you can just fast track them to level 80 on a living world episode's worth of quests.

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

> >

> > Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.

> > Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

> >

> > Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

>

> "If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play" --> "I'm low on CD's but it's still unfair that I can't win when I'm targeted by Revenant"

Right right, I saw and updated. Missed that.

The way it is now, I'm not leaning either way nerf/buff wise. As was brought up multiple times before they are __violently allergic to conditions.__ and since their rotation forces them to mag to you you can certainly load them with those if you run a condi build.

Yes they have high damage, yes they have high evade. But they also have a glaring, obvious weakness, and really that's all I need from classes here. Something that can easily punch it down if its built properly.

If you HAVE to nerf it maybe offset its phase traversal a bit more but I dont think its in a position to warrant that right now. I run a Sage Mally/Glint Rev with mainhand mace and usually any rev that puts itself on me kills itself with torment.

.... Wait-

Wasn't that the mesmer counterplay too?

NERF IT

NERF IT NOW

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> The whole idea of revenant is to be able to chase their enemy. That's their role just like thief can chase you forever. Also why do you expect to be able to run away if you're out of cooldowns? You shouldn't be able to survive if you manage your CD's bad and are in a vulnerable spot. That's your fault.

~~Nobody said they were out of cooldowns.~~ Trevor said that. I am not of that opinion. You can still be magneted to even if you have disengage cooldowns via phase traversal and unrelenting.

Also, is it really their role? I thought they were group support. Thats what the majority of their kit seems to be built around.

Not that I feel they need to be shoehorned into that, but chase potential is only present in one of their traits and weapon types. All of the other traitlines focus on pushing benefits to allies.

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> Sometimes i think us players are at fault why this game became what it is now. And Anet... should've never listened to us. But they did. And now we have what we have now. No balance. No decent PvP community. No build diversity. Classes/builds that are chopped down and crippled every now and then by balance devs. And like 70% of PvPers are gone... Yea.. keep on going with your "nerf that nerf that one too" threads you "experts".

This is indeed true.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Hey everyone. Just wanted to put up a quick note that we are actively investigating the issue with getting stuck unable to queue up for PvP matches. This bug is something that would come up occasionally in the past.

>

> A bit of simplified explanation: For a currently unknown reason, players are sometimes not removed from the roster (group) they were in during a PvP match. Then, when you try to queue up, the system sees that you're in an active roster and decides to do nothing. As this used to be somewhat rare, we created some scripts that comb the system looking for old rosters and clear them out, which would fix the problem. These scripts can only be run so often and against rosters of a certain age, since the automated tournament system keeps players in the same roster for longer periods and we don't want to destroy those rosters.

>

> In the last 2-3 weeks, the frequency of this bug has gone up dramatically and we're not sure why, though we have some thoughts on ways to work around it. We're currently in the process of building some additional logging to further help us track down the issue.

>

> We understand that this is extremely frustrating, it is for us as well. We'll keep you updated as we get more information.

Give the bug dishonored stacks for queue dodging.

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> but I'm skeptical of A-net to do this properly given, the amount of bias and double standards there is against mesmer from both devs and players alike. Let's say that's all in the past and devs have an even handed perspective: Even if they are going to do it reasonably well, and honestly **I'm totally on board with bringing everything down** a bit; but I have my doubts a-net will do this in a timely manner. If it's going to take them till the end of August or September to bring those specs down, then they should have left mesmer par and reduced everything together.

Fair points. and I've heard that viewpoint before. I would be inclined to agree, except I am almost positive that the more things Anet tries to "fix" at once without taking a barometric reading, the easier it is for things to go horribly, horribly wrong.

Increments are fine, as long as they are timely. If they're not I can work on something else until things get finished up.

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> Revs arguably has the same or more blocks than guardian. (Core) while having a plethora of evades to work with.

Uh?

It has a ton of evades yes, but it only has two blocks IIRC. And both of those blocks are active.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Miyu.8137" said:

> > All these topics about nerfing "InsertRandomClass" won't help anything. Can you not be more specific? What exactly do you find OP? What skill? What trait? What utility? When we know, we can actually discuss the problematic parts and evantually propose solution.

>

> At first, you'd think it's the damage output. But it isn't actually the damage that's the problem, it's the chase potential. You seriously cannot escape a Herald that wants you dead. Between Unrelenting Assault and Phase Traversal, it's too much chase power. If it engages you when you are already low on resources, there is no way to counter play the mixture of its chase potential paired with its very consistent high damage output. Unlike a Soulbeast, who has his kill burst in short intervals that go on significant CDs, the Herald actually has high "Damage Per Second", even with random spam attacks, that ultimately cannot be avoided.

>

> Preferably Arenanet needs to configure something so that heralds are easier to disengage. If they don't want to do that, they should lower the damage output.

>

I think this is reasonable. An energy cost bump to phase traversal might be a good place to start, and if that isn't enough have unrelenting check its range after every hit so that you cant magnet to people that blink/port far away.

I say that tentatively though. Getting harassed at range by bomb-and-disengage condi builds or projectiles ain't a good feel, and they dont have as much block potential as guards. Gonna need to buff their active defenses if you want them to not stick to you the moment they see you.

So either nerf damage or nerf chase/buff defense. And depending on when they land from there, condi cleanse or a significant buff to resistance on mallyx to make people consider corruption line.

> @"Bazooka.3590" said:

> Anet doesn't give a kitten about anything now because they will bankrupt soon. They don't have the resources.

If a quick look in PVE has taught me anything, it is that they make so much money from PVE players through shiny sales that they will probably have a steady stream of income for a while yet.

Also the last few patches have been brutal, but fair in terms of balancing. It seems like the recent focus shift has brought new eyes to pvp balancing, so these threads are still necessary to shed light on -why- things are broken/overpowered.

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> I get your points, but ranger is probably the most hated class next to thief.

Nah, it's mes. Let's not deny the obvious there. It is definitely mes, followed by any thief that makes a mistake.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> -=it's the unholy duration of unblockable that Soulbeasts have access to:

Yes.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> it's not being cried about simply because it's more popular. It is being whined about because, slowly, the weaknesses of that build are being patched out with minor changes.

>

> For example, the recent change to unstoppable union and unblockables in general make it so that the only projectile hate that worked actively, projectile destruction, now longer works against that damage. Add that to the fact that ranger longbow skills are markedly longer ranged than their tooltip claims, and you have classes that can open on you from outside of 1500 range and force you to burn dodges if you do not happen to be near a pillar or some obfuscating terrain.

Add stacked unblockable to "projectile destruction now counts as block" and you have a huge problem on your hands. Sanctuary wont work, poison cloud wont work, smoke screen wont work- How does that bode for anyone that needs to get a critical res in a firefight? It's too free,

I still think that the damage bonus stacking needs to be looked at as well, but this is the core issue. Spreading damage out across the rotation would be better, because obviously maul can be stealthed, obfuscating the telegraph

LulDdos? /2morechars

No thanks. Even with the choices we have now, the imbalances usually only amount to a handful of things per class that just don't get fixed for months on end. There's no need to dumb the game down even more. All that the game needs is a close eye kept on what builds allow players to do too much and a relatively quick response time to that knowledge.

> @"Commander Blue.3826" said:

> yeah

eh. You can sneeze on it with any condi and the meta build will die. I'm seeing the problems with herald, I'm just... reluctant to think they need nerfing.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> buff condi

You don't actually want that. Mallyx is actually really strong, people just haven't figured it out yet. Making anything more powerful on that condi side with Embrace the Darkness as it is now is going to be trouble.

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> Always when sseing ppl playing charr+teef its an automatic loose

> I think some races put together with some classes garante you an automatic loose in tpvp.

[Laughs in standard enemy models]