Ways to improve Core Game Map

[Dragneel.7389]

I hope they give a taste of the mounts to the f2p players in core maps. They implemented bettle mounts renting, they should have a raptor renting for each map on core maps because it's totally populated with mounts nowadays with veterans replaying the game and doing map completion. I found it really discourages f2p players those came to check out the game and those who bought the game to find it a grind to get to lvl80 before they can get to enjoy. The reason we need to do this is, its 2020 and core maps feel old and we dont have quests like every other MMO to immerse the players into their universe and those mmos introduce mount mechanic in the early lvls but gw2 does it way bad, it breaks the immersion of the story, in order to get raptor I need to go to POF and play it essentially making it a spoiler. We all know that gw2 has the best mount system so I think this is the least effort they can put in the game to attract new players and make it fun.

Anyone has any suggestions please comment and share your views on my idea.

edit:

The free 2 play model is the core problem for adding mount rentals/a mount to the core map. If the game was not f2p, Anet would have implemented the mounts. To help new players to adjust to the new environment, they made new player guide recently and it explains all we need to know as a new player. So, the argument that mount rentals to be added to the core maps is not such a good idea.

We can differentiate the new player into 2 categories

1. A person who will buy the game

This person will play the base game and enjoy it without getting bothered by the mounts in core maps since he knows he is getting them. This helps Anet since its essentially brings money to them.

2. A person who can't buy the game

This person feels the game is unfair and might leave when he sees the mounts but cant get them, this situation helps the Anet since this decreases the server load and helps them indirectly to cut costs. Some people will stick around and will eventually buys the game later since they invested time into the game.

From the way I see it there is no need for Anet to implement mount rentals to core maps.

 

As of now there is a good balance for free players and paid players in the core map.

edit:

If you guys have any ideas or interesting concepts you want it to be implemented in the core maps. Please share them.

I understand the mounts concept in core maps has its pros and cons and its for Anet to decide.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Core Tyria was designed long before the mount system was introduced, with another playstyle in mind. Even permanent swiftness was not really a thing back then. So as a result, those maps have a lot of Waypoints, which shrink the size. The main reason for the raptor is to travel long distances quickly, which is sort of an overkill in Core Tyria.

 

I would rather like to see the Warclaw being repurposed as a starter-mount. The Warclaw was originally designed for the WvW with a cosmetic appearance in PvE. But thanks to all the balances, the mount became sort of a meme in WvW. They removed its speed, power and a lot of its versatility. In PvE it is the most basic of all mounts, it walks a little faster than a player, can dodge, is resistant to crowd-control and that is it. That fits perfectly for a core-tyria mount. Not as powerful as the PoF versions, not too fast to break the immersion, but still useful for exploration.

 

Make it a basic mount that can be unlocked in Lion's Arch for your first character, for a small cat-related collection around the city. Plus a fee of 1-3 gold and a few leather materials for the saddle. Then you have a basic mount you can use on all your characters in PvE. For the WvW version, you still need to do the original tasks.

 

As for the glider, which is also part of the expansion-locked issue, we could us the parachute from the Medizooka. Which is basically a heavily downgraded glider. Without the blaster, it fits perfectly for Core Tyria without ruining the real gliders from HoT.

 

 

 

[sitarskee.5738]

I disagree. Play the game, if you like it without mounts, you will love it with mounts. If you don't like it without mounts, mounts won't change anything.

[Dragneel.7389]

> @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> I disagree. Play the game, if you like it without mounts, you will love it with mounts. If you don't like it without mounts, mounts won't change anything.

The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do. They don't even know that there is personal story at level 10. So, I think in 2020 core maps should be made more fun.

As the core maps are already populated by the veteran players running in their mounts. Adding a mount renting like bettle mount in the core maps will greatly increase the fun factor of the game and let the new people playing giving them a demo of what they can expect from the game.

Most of the MMOs introduce the mount system to the players early on and these people tend to feel that the mounts are a paywall and essentially pay 2 win in guild wars 2 as they are only available in POF and leave.

Since we already have a system of bettle mount renting, it will be less amount of effort for the devs to put another mount rental.

I am not saying to give these people free mounts, add them as an alternative only to the core maps.

[Astyrah.4015]

it's been discussed soo many times in so many threads, if you searched you'd find all the varying opinions of the forumers here.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/114610/should-ftp-players-get-raptor-for-free

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/113643/make-mounts-accessible-without-butchering-the-story-immersion

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/113411/mount-rents-on-f2p-base-maps-on-steam-release

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/108023/new-accounts-and-mount-availability-solution

 

personally i don't care what arenanet does to mounts for free-to-play players. **likely, they wouldn't do anything**. but i think maybe it's a good idea to make the warclaw something free-to-play players can unlock once they can do WvW so brings more players to the game mode. they still need to level to 80 and get exotics to join WvW properly and then work on the warclaw unlock -- it's only fair that people work for something before they get rewarded

 

doesnt mean that they are free-to-play that they should get more stuff for free

 

[Taril.8619]

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> I found it really discourages f2p players those came to check out the game and those who bought the game to find it a grind to get to lvl80 before they can get to enjoy.

 

I enjoyed the game before I got to level 80 and obtained a mount.

 

I enjoyed the game after I got to level 80 and before I obtained a mount.

 

Mounts aren't necessary to enjoy the game. Unless the only thing you find enjoyable, is doing event trains which are not particularly relevant outside of a daily achievement or level 80 zones that have map metas...

 

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> The reason we need to do this is, its 2020 and core maps feel old and we dont have quests like every other MMO to immerse the players into their universe

 

No, instead of quests, GW2 has Hearts, which immerse the players into the universe that way. With events that also provide more immersion.

 

As opposed to opening up a block of text and clicking "Accept" without reading it because who cares why you're collecting 10 boar livers for the umpteenth time...

 

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> those mmos introduce mount mechanic in the early lvls but gw2 does it way bad

 

Many MMO's gate their mounts behind things. Even WoW Classic has mounts gated far worse than GW2 (Requiring level 40 and a bunch of gold, with level 40 taking longer to reach for a casual player than level 80 in GW2 and the gold not being guaranteed by level 40 or even 60 depending on how a player attempts to make gold while leveling)

 

GW2 just needs you to do part of a single quest to get mounts for all characters on your account.

 

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> it breaks the immersion of the story, in order to get raptor I need to go to POF and play it essentially making it a spoiler.

 

It breaks the immersion of the story to not care about the story and rush to get the mount you recieve as part of the story?

 

SurprisedPikachuFace.jpg

 

If you want immersion, play through the game's story and get your mount when it is relevant to the story to do so. It is not required up until that point.

 

Also, as far as immersion breaking and spoilers go, the 1 quest you need to half complete to obtain a mount has very little in terms of spoilers (If you AFK for the monologue at the beginning) given that the entire quest makes 0 sense unless you've played the story to that point.

 

There are far worse things in game for spoilers, such as the paywalls on Living World episodes that mean that many new players will play Core > HoT > PoF > IBS and then start unlocking LW2, LW3, LW4 and earlier IBS episodes and thus face massive spoilers...

 

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> We all know that gw2 has the best mount system so I think this is the least effort they can put in the game to attract new players and make it fun.

 

Arguable.

 

I think GW2's mount system is pretty meh. Especially since the additions of Roller Beetle, Griffon and Skyscale which render other mounts nearly obsolete... With Griffon and Skyscale being essentially other games flying mounts, but with extra clunk (Using just the "Base" mounts, Raptor/Skipper/Skimmer it was more interesting with swapping mounts based off of what terrain you were traversing)

 

At best, I think the Roller Beetle is fun to use due to its momentum based movement, but otherwise it's just a case of "Flying Mounts but bad"

 

Honestly, in my opinion, BDO has the best mount system in an MMO. Since mounts are real, persistent entities in the game, that you can equip with saddlebags to store items (But can weigh them down and make them run slower) and aren't magically summoned between your legs, whenever and wherever you want, but stay where you dismounted them (Unless enemies spook them and make them run off)

 

It's the little things, but it makes a significant impact to the feeling of a mount, with it being an actual mount that you look after the same as your character, that you get attached to like your character (Well, outside of BDO's urge to push you to breed/buy higher tier horses) that also makes it feel like something that's more than simply an out of combat movement speed buff (Which given GW2's actual movement speed decrease when in combat could literally be implemented that way)

 

[Vavume.8065]

New players should play the game as it was first intended without mounts, mounts are not needed for core maps, there are many many waypoints, they will also see players with mounts as an incentive to level to 80 and get their own mount, simple as...

[Dragneel.7389]

From the threads I read it points out that we have a good balance as of now with how f2p players get content and paid players get content.

I suggest atleast implementing a tutorial for the new players teaching them the basics of combat

They do that with dodge roll and thats it.

[Dragneel.7389]

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> New players should play the game as it was first intended without mounts, mounts are not needed for core maps, there are many many waypoints, they will also see players with mounts as an incentive to level to 80 and get their own mount, simple as...

 

I want to point out that those maps are 8 years old and mmo genre has come a long way now. I feel that it is confusing to experience the game without proper tutorial and they have implemented the new player guide but I think its not enough.

and why I wanted to suggest a mount rental is that guild wars 2 doesn't have a sprint system and that walking is not for everyone and especially classes with low mobility

 

[Dragneel.7389]

The free 2 play model is the core problem for adding mount rentals/a mount to the core map. If the game was not f2p, Anet would have implemented the mounts. To help new players to adjust to the new environment, they made new player guide recently and it explains all we need to know as a new player. So, the argument that mount rentals to be added to the core maps is not such a good idea.

We can differentiate the new player into 2 categories

1. A person who will buy the game

This person will play the base game and enjoy it without getting bothered by the mounts in core maps since he knows he is getting them. This helps Anet since its essentially brings money to them.

2. A person who can't buy the game

This person feels the game is unfair and might leave when he sees the mounts but cant get them, this situation helps the Anet since this decreases the server load and helps them indirectly to cut costs. Some people will stick around and will eventually buys the game later since they invested time into the game.

From the way I see it there is no need for Anet to implement mount rentals to core maps.

[mercury ranique.2170]

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> > @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> > I disagree. Play the game, if you like it without mounts, you will love it with mounts. If you don't like it without mounts, mounts won't change anything.

> The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do. They don't even know that there is personal story at level 10. So, I think in 2020 core maps should be made more fun.

> As the core maps are already populated by the veteran players running in their mounts. Adding a mount renting like bettle mount in the core maps will greatly increase the fun factor of the game and let the new people playing giving them a demo of what they can expect from the game.

> Most of the MMOs introduce the mount system to the players early on and these people tend to feel that the mounts are a paywall and essentially pay 2 win in guild wars 2 as they are only available in POF and leave.

> Since we already have a system of bettle mount renting, it will be less amount of effort for the devs to put another mount rental.

> I am not saying to give these people free mounts, add them as an alternative only to the core maps.

 

Just cause most of the games do something, doesnt mean it is a good thing. I believe this attitude is what destroyed a lot in GW2. We demanded loads of features to be adapted from other games and often they are introduced poorly, even those from GW1 (like GH's). Arenanet was much better when they where thinking themself what was good and would work.

 

Core Tyria is a wonderfull place and when on mounts you miss 99% of it. So stop wishing for GW2 to be another WoW clone, but start enjoying the beautifull game as it is.

[Danikat.8537]

If your concern is that new players won't know what content is available or how to immerse themselves in the world because it doesn't use the one format they're most likely to have seen before I really don't think making it even easier than it already is to rush past the content and dialogue that's going on around them will do anything to help the situation. If anything it's likely to make it even worse by giving them the impression that rushing as fast as possible between events where you focus purely on tagging enough enemies for credit and then moving on to the next thing without ever noticing the NPCs is how it's supposed to work.

[Viger.1347]

Doesn't every profession in the game have access to at least a 25% passive movement boost at lower levels? Or at the very least, an active movement speed boost? I know the Revenant has an active boost that is a 50% increase for quite a long time which is massive. I feel like those should be sufficient enough in dealing with the tedium of traversal in core Tyria without a mount.

 

Also, if a new player really doesn't like the idea of doing the whole leveling thing without mounts, or just doesn't enjoy leveling in general and just wants to skip everything - well, that's what the 80 boost is for.

[Antycypator.9874]

It's like giving new players access to elite specs. These, just like mounts and every other thing, are part of the expansion. I think you should pay for something more if you want it.

Feel unfair because you're running slower? What about playing a core profession while elite specs can do everything better? Should you get access to paid content to match other players?

[robertthebard.8150]

So every time this comes up it's "but think of the new players"...

 

Here's my take, as someone that's relatively new: The lack of a mount didn't hinder me in the slightest. It didn't detract from figuring out what the game was, and if I was going to like it for what it was. I didn't think "But it's 2018" in relation to anything, or maybe 2017, not sure, exactly. "But it's 2020" is just as irrelevant. The only way that that would have any relevance is if the game released this year, instead of having the misfortune(?) of being around this long? Even then, if it were to be released the same way, no mounts until an expansion, it's not a big deal, due to mounts not be required for anything in the core maps. This from someone that still doesn't have a griffon or a skyskale. I'm still not feeling like the game has deprived me of anything, and to be quite honest, I'm still not sure how to go about getting the skyskale, because I haven't felt put out enough via not having it to spend any time figuring it out. I didn't even get the skimmer until sometime in March of this year, I think. It was really recent, regardless. So I'm not seeing "but it's going to adversely affect new players" as much as I'm seeing "but I would have liked to have it a lot earlier than I did".

 

Then there's the real kicker: I have the first three mounts, raptor, skimmer and the springer, and about 3/4 of the time, I don't even use them in the expansion maps, let alone the core maps... Mainly because I'll be stopping to gather mats when they come up, or fighting, or just not thinking about summoning it. Probably because I played to 80 before I unlocked the first one, and simply got used to not having it, or trying to rely on it to play the game. For core, it's not required at all, and in the expansions, you can mostly ignore them, except in specific instances where they are required, such as really long jumps, or getting across the "quick sand". Neither of which will adversely affect a new player, playing the core maps.

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do. They don't even know that there is personal story at level 10. So, I think in 2020 core maps should be made more fun.

 

then it is our duty to be available at starting areas and guide them if wanted. i don't see any connection to mounts there.

[Solanum.6983]

I have to disagree, I played the Personal Story and their Maps without Mounts and it was very enjoyable even when others had mounts.

The Game is very solo friendly and those maps are designed with no mounts in mind so there's not much open area with nothing to do. Speed boosts and skills are more then enough to get from one area to another.

It wasn't until I got to Heart of Thorns that I decided to skip ahead to the first part of PoF and unlock the raptor mount and go back.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> > The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do. They don't even know that there is personal story at level 10. So, I think in 2020 core maps should be made more fun.

>

> then it is our duty to be available at starting areas and guide them if wanted. i don't see any connection to mounts there.

 

That's a cop out. If the design is so poor that new players feel lost about what they should be doing, it is a failure of the design. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but when I look at core Tyria I see a game that doesn't do a very good job of showcasing its best features.

 

Hearts feel lame and disconnected because they are. HoT got this right. Instead of hearts, each area of the map has a simple map indicator which shows whether or not the central events in that area have been completed. Once you're in the area, the sidebar indicates which event is currently in progress. This type of system makes it easier for players to determine where they should go to find the action.

 

It's also better for story-telling, as the events are all connected and involve the player in what is happening. One-off events are useful as filler and to give the map a less scripted feel, but when that's all you have it can be pretty confusing. Okay, I just protected this guy's farm. Now what? HoT event chains lead the player from one event to the next, telling a story as they go and usually culminating in some sort of boss event at the end. This is easy to follow and feels more interesting and rewarding than running from heart to heart, collecting apples or protecting random farm from bandits, etc.

 

Of course, this would require a total rewrite of the core maps. That's a pretty ambitious project.

[DeanBB.4268]

I really don't see a problem with core maps/start game. Who comes to GW2 with never having played any type of RPG? They all pretty much dump you at the start of some map, and you start roaming around, doing things. You naturally run into hearts, which have a pop up as well as someone you can talk to for info. It really isn't much different than traditional questing.

 

Level 10 arrives with a pop up and mail. And hopefully if a newbie is befuddled they are reading the level up hints.

 

My brother and daughter started recently and had no trouble. I was there to help, of course, but it's not like they had only ever played Tetris and Solitaire, they knew to wander around and kill things. My daughter on her own has map completed twice already.

 

MMOs by nature are more complicated than RPGs, so if someone is unsure, hopefully they seek answers. If not, maybe MMOs are not for them.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > > @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> > > The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do. They don't even know that there is personal story at level 10. So, I think in 2020 core maps should be made more fun.

> >

> > then it is our duty to be available at starting areas and guide them if wanted. i don't see any connection to mounts there.

>

> That's a cop out. If the design is so poor that new players feel lost about what they should be doing, it is a failure of the design. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but when I look at core Tyria I see a game that doesn't do a very good job of showcasing its best features.

>

> Hearts feel lame and disconnected because they are. HoT got this right. Instead of hearts, each area of the map has a simple map indicator which shows whether or not the central events in that area have been completed. Once you're in the area, the sidebar indicates which event is currently in progress. This type of system makes it easier for players to determine where they should go to find the action.

>

> It's also better for story-telling, as the events are all connected and involve the player in what is happening. One-off events are useful as filler and to give the map a less scripted feel, but when that's all you have it can be pretty confusing. Okay, I just protected this guy's farm. Now what? HoT event chains lead the player from one event to the next, telling a story as they go and usually culminating in some sort of boss event at the end. This is easy to follow and feels more interesting and rewarding than running from heart to heart, collecting apples or protecting random farm from bandits, etc.

>

> Of course, this would require a total rewrite of the core maps. That's a pretty ambitious project.

 

If this were true, how did anyone ever manage to play? Mounts weren't a day one thing in the game after all, and it survived how many years before they were eventually added? So the scouts weren't useful at all in guiding players to where they needed to go? That's odd, because I didn't spend a lot of time on a map confused by that, since scouts would show hearts that needed done, and then a map marker would show up, showing which way I needed to go. Sounds a whole lot more like "but my agenda" than anything that has anything to do with the actual game. As far as being available, when someone in map chat this morning asked if there was a bank in the starter area, I pointed them to any crafting station. Is that really a design flaw, or just something that someone didn't know? You see, my problem is that this game isn't new, it's been around for quite a while, and people are still playing it, and some of them, based on the bank question this morning, are new. The only place I see a lot of "but new players won't get it" is on the forums.

[Chichimec.9364]

> @"Dragneel.7389" said:

> The core maps were designed in 2013 and they are good in their own right but people judge too quickly about the game. The heart system is a new and innovative system but it completely replaces the questing system, only some achievements feel like quests, this confuses the people what to do. As a new player after doing tutorial you are thrown into the world not knowing what to do. I have seen almost all the new players in the starting zones asking what to do...

You are making generalizations here that I have to disagree with a bit as my own experiences differ than yours. When I was a new player almost three years ago, I started as a human on the Queensdale map. There were a lot of things the game that were confusing and overwhelming as a beginner but learning to explore and get around on the Queensdale map was not one of those things. The heart system was new to me but was not all difficult to figure out. Every rpg and mmo I've ever played had npcs with tasks for you to do.

 

To this day I still enjoy leveling up new alts on the core Tyria maps and over the last couple of days I've been running a new one through map completion on the five beginner maps. So I'm on those maps a lot and I simply haven't seen the kind of new player confusion you generalize about. What I do see a lot of on beginner maps is people with mentor tags offering help in map chat to anyone who needs it.

 

As for your idea about renting mounts to new players, I'm a bit hesitant, based on one of my own ingame experiences. Having never felt the need to get a griffon, I was curious to try one the first time I got to someplace where I could rent one. The rented griffon seemed pretty underwhelming and I said as much in a thread here talking about mounts. Someone pointed out to me though that riding a griffon with all its masteries completed was very different than riding a rental with no masteries. As I thought about my other mounts and their associated masteries, that seemed like a reasonable comment to me. So if you give a new player a basic mount, rented or otherwise, they may not be as impressed with it as you assume.

 

[Infusion.7149]

#1 way is to make condi less garbage against the random things you need to hit that aren't mobs.

 

It's ridiculous when :

* engineers start with pistol which is pretty much a joke of a weapon in openworld

* revenants start with mace, a condi weapon with horrible power coefficient on auto that has a ramp time on torment

* warrior start with sword, a condi weapon with respectable power coefficient

* thieves start with dagger , which would benefit from condi being effective

* guardians' virtue of justice needs to work properly ; thematically all structures not made of metal should burn

 

[sorudo.9054]

the only thing the core map needs is a ton load of RPG content

* make taverns fun to get in, even adding some interact-able chairs and some tavern music improves the experience.

* have market places every X day of the week that has exotic items

* every major city based on race should sell armors with skins based on that race (just like what they have with weapons)

* have a choice of poses for your character, allowing more depth in your character's RP experience.

* when you craft something you see your character actually craft something. (which is better than standing there doing nothing)

* NPC's commenting about your latest triumphs (like "good work taking down krakatorik" or "thanks for stopping that crazy soldier"), even a simple wave or clapping does the job well.

* a choice of making nights darker which allows street lanterns to actually matter

 

i have more but this is it for now.

[hugo.4705]

^this.

 

See caledon forest, you have "mabon market" the south corner is obviously a barcwith tables. But there is no chairs! It is easy to spot in every map the places that are bars or taverns. Please devs, add interactive sit-able chairs at places that have no chairs or sit able chair in addition of the tables.

 

I'm very upset by "three legions court" in plain of ashford and lower blood keep "Rank 'n' File pub" those two are literally tavern and you can't sit. But you can find easily example for other races.

 

[Viger.1347]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> * every major city based on race should sell armors with skins based on that race (just like what they have with weapons)

 

Pretty sure the game already has this from Cultural Armor Vendors. I recently leveled a Sylvari and bought a full set at level 40 I believe, which is 1 of 3 armor set tiers.

 

Edit for reference: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cultural_armor