Next weeks patch rundown , inside scoop

[CookiesOverCake.1862]

another wall of nerfs to damage , sustain untouched. buff damage or we see..

 


 

[Filip.7463]

Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

Where did u get info about damage nerf?

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Filip.7463" said:

> Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> Where did u get info about damage nerf?

 

Im fairy certain this post was jus made as a joke against how the previous nerfs have been. Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. Holo might get a tiny change but it wont be massive i think since its position is pretty good.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

>

> (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

 

**Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

 

I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

 

However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

 

Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

 

If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

[ollbirtan.2915]

yeah damage nerfs to dh cause of all the whining on the forums, slight buffs to FB. Nerfs to rene. But I may be wrong, However, there was yet another discord call between a couple of so called 'top players' and anet's dev that is supposed to look after pvp. -shrug-

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> >

> > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

>

> **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

>

> I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

>

> However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

>

> Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

>

> If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

 

Ye apologies on that, i didnt specify other issues. The only reason i would say to nerf ele in is the fact it has absurd passive damage and good barrier uptime, even as warrior if you CC its meant to be an "opportunity" to deal damage however ele passives does more than what warrior can if you stay near ele for more than 2 seconds. Thats my only issue with ele personally. Rev has been an issue for over 2 years now being in the meta somehow or other with builds that are a tier above everything else. Whether its renegade or herald and druid shouldve been removed from viability (decap) but stayed in. Assuming these 2 get changes ele might be next and meta will be less tanky (hopefully)

[Shao.7236]

If that's to be taken seriously, core rev has already been nerfed in a broken way which did not affect Renegade because people don't actually play like it.

 

They seriously need to consider the real issue on Renegade which is speed rune, legitimately the only reason why the build is so strong and that doesn't account other builds that exploits the 66% as well which could use it also instead of having their class changed in anyway.

 

Being able to kite so much by just moving should not be part of the PvP choice. You also well know that while the kitting happens upkeep is being easily rewarded whether you get in range or not because Shortbow range and Hammers heal every hit in range of them.

[Kuma.1503]

Patch Preview:

 

Renegade:

Sevenshot nerf. Sustain cut.

 

Dragonhunter:

SoJ power coeff reduced. Traited burning reduced. 1 less charge in PvP

 

Holosmith:

Grenade Barrage damage reduced to 0.1 per grenade (It almost does as much dps as Shrapnel Grenade. Nerfed so that it's weaker than the auto attack.)

 

Thief:

Shadow arts nerf. Increased ini on heartseeker to 4 (dagger is obv overperforming compared to other mh weapons)

 

Mesmer: Mirage endurace regeneration cut by 50%. (Too many evades even with one dodge)

 

Ranger: Jacaranda no longer selectable in PvP.

 

Weaver: All burning applied now instantly cleanses itself. They chill themselves when attuning to water.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Removed:

 

Trapper Rune (too much stealth)

Divinity Rune (Obviously overperforming based on usage)

Resistance Rune (Makes builds too tanky)

 

Rabid Amulet (too much toughness. Enables earth weaver)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[foste.3098]

- spvp changed so that when you enter a map your class is replaced with a stick figurine that only has 1 skill that deals 1 damage upon use.

 

There, perfectly balanced, now every one is on a level playing field and no one can bitch about losing to poor balance.

[Stallic.2397]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> >

> > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

>

> **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

>

> I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

>

> However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

>

> Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

>

> If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

 

Nerfing smothering auras would be a huge core nerf and take away perhaps the best ligitimate cleanse option they have. If sustain is too strong on tempest and weaver, then nerf those classes. Ex. Barrier or aura spam, etc.

 

Smothering auras and transmuting auras was probably the best thing Anet did for core ele in years. But core doesn't have an overpowered sustain problem and shouldn't get nerfed for it.

 

But I agree, offhand Dagger should definitely be a thing and needs some love

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> > >

> > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

> >

> > **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

> >

> > I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

> >

> > However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

> >

> > Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

> >

> > If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

>

> Nerfing smothering auras would be a huge core nerf and take away perhaps the best ligitimate cleanse option they have. If sustain is too strong on tempest and weaver, then nerf those classes. Ex. Barrier or aura spam, etc.

>

> Smothering auras and transmuting auras was probably the best thing Anet did for core ele in years. But core doesn't have an overpowered sustain problem and shouldn't get nerfed for it.

>

> But I agree, offhand Dagger should definitely be a thing and needs some love

 

I do not want to see it deleted. But make it more egoistic - stop cleanses for allies. Core ele can not really use that anyways, but it forces tempest into fire (and therefor focus) and weaver some team fight presence. It is basically better cleansing than with water in almost any situation.

 

The fire aura spam with the cleanses and focus is what once again deleted ele's options. Water is not competitive anymore due to the necessary nerfs to the rest of ele - weaver and tempest both.

[Kuma.1503]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> > > >

> > > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

> > >

> > > **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

> > >

> > > I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

> > >

> > > However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

> > >

> > > Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

> > >

> > > If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

> >

> > Nerfing smothering auras would be a huge core nerf and take away perhaps the best ligitimate cleanse option they have. If sustain is too strong on tempest and weaver, then nerf those classes. Ex. Barrier or aura spam, etc.

> >

> > Smothering auras and transmuting auras was probably the best thing Anet did for core ele in years. But core doesn't have an overpowered sustain problem and shouldn't get nerfed for it.

> >

> > But I agree, offhand Dagger should definitely be a thing and needs some love

>

> I do not want to see it deleted. But make it more egoistic - stop cleanses for allies. Core ele can not really use that anyways, but it forces tempest into fire (and therefor focus) and weaver some team fight presence. It is basically better cleansing than with water in almost any situation.

>

> The fire aura spam with the cleanses and focus is what once again deleted ele's options. Water is not competitive anymore due to the necessary nerfs to the rest of ele - weaver and tempest both.

 

You don't need smothering auras on auramancer tempest. It's nice, make no mistake, but you can have plenty of teamfight presence while running the earth or air traitlines.

 

Earth/Water gives you access to elemental shielding. AoE prot is arguably stronger into power heavy compositions. You also gain passive toughness, reduced CD on obsidian flesh and Stone Heart for some personal survivability.

 

The benefits of running Air/Water are less immediately obvious. It's a more aggressive take, allowing you to grant allies near-permenant uptime on fury and swiftness. This is team comp specific, but it can make a large difference in certain compositions. Reapers will greatly appreciate both boons, while your guardians will appreciate the swiftness you give them. You can also spam Overload air, which not only does good damage even when running mender's, but it also applies AoE vuln, and allows you to spam out shocking Aura. You can optionally pair this with rune of radiance for an oppressive amount of AoE shocking Aura uptime. You can also consider running this varient if your comp has 2 supports. Especially one who can cover you on cleanse.

 

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > > > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > > > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> > > > >

> > > > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

> > > >

> > > > **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

> > > >

> > > > I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

> > > >

> > > > However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

> > > >

> > > > Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

> > > >

> > > > If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

> > >

> > > Nerfing smothering auras would be a huge core nerf and take away perhaps the best ligitimate cleanse option they have. If sustain is too strong on tempest and weaver, then nerf those classes. Ex. Barrier or aura spam, etc.

> > >

> > > Smothering auras and transmuting auras was probably the best thing Anet did for core ele in years. But core doesn't have an overpowered sustain problem and shouldn't get nerfed for it.

> > >

> > > But I agree, offhand Dagger should definitely be a thing and needs some love

> >

> > I do not want to see it deleted. But make it more egoistic - stop cleanses for allies. Core ele can not really use that anyways, but it forces tempest into fire (and therefor focus) and weaver some team fight presence. It is basically better cleansing than with water in almost any situation.

> >

> > The fire aura spam with the cleanses and focus is what once again deleted ele's options. Water is not competitive anymore due to the necessary nerfs to the rest of ele - weaver and tempest both.

>

> You don't need smothering auras on auramancer tempest. It's nice, make no mistake, but you can have plenty of teamfight presence while running the earth or air traitlines.

>

> Earth/Water gives you access to elemental shielding. AoE prot is arguably stronger into power heavy compositions. You also gain passive toughness, reduced CD on obsidian flesh and Stone Heart for some personal survivability.

>

> The benefits of running Air/Water are less immediately obvious. It's a more aggressive take, allowing you to grant allies near-permenant uptime on fury and swiftness. This is team comp specific, but it can make a large difference in certain compositions. Reapers will greatly appreciate both boons, while your guardians will appreciate the swiftness you give them. You can also spam Overload air, which not only does good damage even when running mender's, but it also applies AoE vuln, and allows you to spam out shocking Aura. You can optionally pair this with rune of radiance for an oppressive amount of AoE shocking Aura uptime. You can also consider running this varient if your comp has 2 supports. Especially one who can cover you on cleanse.

>

>

 

While I agree it can be composition related:

 

Smothering Auras on tempest allows you to take Aura Share in water and even the aura duration rune. This has been the main reason for the obnoxious shocking aura spam. Also enables stability in the tempest traitline, which water tempest cannot take. None of the other builds have been as strong and way more situational.

 

However, tempest is not a big offender right now. It is strong, yes, but I would still like to see this change or some other idea to change the current tempest situation.

[Khalisto.5780]

There's a tiny chance we get another big patch, cuz you know, 1 year.

 

If this happens most classes will be changed

 

I dont believe this, cuz all amet resources are on expansion

 

We prolly have some burn dh nerf + rune of trapper nerf

 

 

[Kuma.1503]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > > > @"Filip.7463" said:

> > > > > > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs?

> > > > > > > Where did u get info about damage nerf?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...)

> > > > >

> > > > > **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed:

> > > > >

> > > > > I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again!

> > > > >

> > > > > However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen.

> > > > >

> > > > > Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths.

> > > > >

> > > > > If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

> > > >

> > > > Nerfing smothering auras would be a huge core nerf and take away perhaps the best ligitimate cleanse option they have. If sustain is too strong on tempest and weaver, then nerf those classes. Ex. Barrier or aura spam, etc.

> > > >

> > > > Smothering auras and transmuting auras was probably the best thing Anet did for core ele in years. But core doesn't have an overpowered sustain problem and shouldn't get nerfed for it.

> > > >

> > > > But I agree, offhand Dagger should definitely be a thing and needs some love

> > >

> > > I do not want to see it deleted. But make it more egoistic - stop cleanses for allies. Core ele can not really use that anyways, but it forces tempest into fire (and therefor focus) and weaver some team fight presence. It is basically better cleansing than with water in almost any situation.

> > >

> > > The fire aura spam with the cleanses and focus is what once again deleted ele's options. Water is not competitive anymore due to the necessary nerfs to the rest of ele - weaver and tempest both.

> >

> > You don't need smothering auras on auramancer tempest. It's nice, make no mistake, but you can have plenty of teamfight presence while running the earth or air traitlines.

> >

> > Earth/Water gives you access to elemental shielding. AoE prot is arguably stronger into power heavy compositions. You also gain passive toughness, reduced CD on obsidian flesh and Stone Heart for some personal survivability.

> >

> > The benefits of running Air/Water are less immediately obvious. It's a more aggressive take, allowing you to grant allies near-permenant uptime on fury and swiftness. This is team comp specific, but it can make a large difference in certain compositions. Reapers will greatly appreciate both boons, while your guardians will appreciate the swiftness you give them. You can also spam Overload air, which not only does good damage even when running mender's, but it also applies AoE vuln, and allows you to spam out shocking Aura. You can optionally pair this with rune of radiance for an oppressive amount of AoE shocking Aura uptime. You can also consider running this varient if your comp has 2 supports. Especially one who can cover you on cleanse.

> >

> >

>

> While I agree it can be composition related:

>

> Smothering Auras on tempest allows you to take Aura Share in water and even the aura duration rune. This has been the main reason for the obnoxious shocking aura spam. Also enables stability in the tempest traitline, which water tempest cannot take. None of the other builds have been as strong and way more situational.

>

> However, tempest is not a big offender right now. It is strong, yes, but I would still like to see this change or some other idea to change the current tempest situation.

 

That's a fair point actually. I'll have to think for a bit on how best to tackle that issue. The first thing that comes to mind is a trait reshuffling.

Perhaps moving the Aura Share mechanic into the tempest traitline. Core Aura share builds are already outclassed by Tempest builds in every way. Why not go all in and make aura share part of Tempest's identity.

 

You could merge the effect with Elemental Bastion. Remove the effect: Grant nearby allies frost aura when struck below the health threshold, and replace it with Aura share.

 

This does however, create a problem. Tempest would be able to run aurashare, smothering auras, Invigorating torrents and cleansing water. If you paired that with Soldier rune, the AoE cleanses would be insane. However this would come at the cost of not running Harmonious Conduit. I'm uncertain if that loss would be enough to offset the amount of AoE cleanse they'd be able to pump out.

[Buran.3796]

Why do you want damage removed from the game? You want even longer fights? Also, why you want runes removed? There's barely 7-8 on use in the entire game mode, and the same happens with the amulets: barely one third of the available roster has any use, and sometimes the builds aren't running what they should but what is left, what isn't utterly terrible.

 

I mean, Rev had the Durability runes, which were removed because "op", so we moved to Leadership, which then were nerfed so hard that I wouldn't touch them with a ten feet pole, so we moved to Resistance, and is not like they are great, but due everything else is terribad. Nerf them and we already known the next ones which will be "op": Melandru. So in six months we will be in the same place, but people will be using amongst 5-6 runes and amulets for the whole 27 specs. And is even worse with the sigils: I don't even need to swap sigils between 6 builds and three clases: the "not useless ones" are always the same.

 

You known what's the real nerf in PvP? The developer support.

[Ryuk.6840]

Inside scoop:

a) Thief get more aoe spells for team presence (just like traps) .

b) Not dealing enough damage (with offensive Amulets) , reduced the cd of those aoes/each sec , otherwise specific spells that haven't been used for a while ,reduce it by 3 sec .

c) Rev , gets more single damage :))

[Liewec.2896]

but what about Shatterstone? gotta adjust the aftercast delay or cast time by 0.01s or else elementalists won't feel complete!

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> If that's to be taken seriously, core rev has already been nerfed in a broken way which did not affect Renegade because people don't actually play like it.

>

> They seriously need to consider the real issue on Renegade which is speed rune, legitimately the only reason why the build is so strong and that doesn't account other builds that exploits the 66% as well which could use it also instead of having their class changed in anyway.

 

Generally dont agree.

Renegade was untouched for months LITTERALLY until they reworked seven shot to make shortbow a decent weapon in pvp. Speed rune has been in the game far longer and if the main issue was speed rune and only speed rune then renegade would have been ideally just as strong before the changes to the shortbow weapon which was certainly not the case as almost none was playing renegade at that time.

 

In my opinion the reasoning why renegade is as strong as it is is because of how safe it can be while now pushing out above average dps from ranged even with seven shot alone (A skill initially designed to not have all 7 arrows hit the single target, that had very high power scaling and condition cover out put.) This along with other small tweaks to shortbow which made its ability to hit much more consistent made renegade viable as a pvp option.

 

The idea that suddenly speed rune makes it overperform when there were several other factors that are being over looked makes me disagree with you on this.

- Multiple changes that considerably improved the shortbow's ease of use and performance possibly putting it above swords effectiveness with less risk as a ranged weapon.

- New combo potential with jails legend providing more sustain and defense which most players did not touch in the past because everyone was too busy playing glint/shiro standard.

 

You dont have to agree but i think speed rune is a bit too basic to be the main factor to blame in that case. Its a good rune option but one that everyone can more or less use evenly and can even be negated entirely by using the rune yourself or stripping the foe's swiftness. Its not restrictive while also be super advantageous as something like Trapper (on Ranger or DH) or Resistance (more effective professions that have low cd elites like rev)

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > If that's to be taken seriously, core rev has already been nerfed in a broken way which did not affect Renegade because people don't actually play like it.

> >

> > They seriously need to consider the real issue on Renegade which is speed rune, legitimately the only reason why the build is so strong and that doesn't account other builds that exploits the 66% as well which could use it also instead of having their class changed in anyway.

>

> Generally dont agree.

> Renegade was untouched for months LITTERALLY until they reworked seven shot to make shortbow a decent weapon in pvp. Speed rune has been in the game far longer and if the main issue was speed rune and only speed rune then renegade would have been ideally just as strong before the changes to the shortbow weapon which was certainly not the case as almost none was playing renegade at that time.

>

> In my opinion the reasoning why renegade is as strong as it is is because of how safe it can be while now pushing out above average dps from ranged even with seven shot alone (A skill initially designed to not have all 7 arrows hit the single target, that had very high power scaling and condition cover out put.) This along with other small tweaks to shortbow which made its ability to hit much more consistent made renegade viable as a pvp option.

>

> The idea that suddenly speed rune makes it overperform when there were several other factors that are being over looked makes me disagree with you on this.

> - Multiple changes that considerably improved the shortbow's ease of use and performance possibly putting it above swords effectiveness with less risk as a ranged weapon.

> - New combo potential with jails legend providing more sustain and defense which most players did not touch in the past because everyone was too busy playing glint/shiro standard.

>

> You dont have to agree but i think speed rune is a bit too basic to be the main factor to blame in that case. Its a good rune option but one that everyone can more or less use evenly and can even be negated entirely by using the rune yourself or stripping the foe's swiftness. Its not restrictive while also be super advantageous as something like Trapper (on Ranger or DH) or Resistance (more effective professions that have low cd elites like rev)

>

 

The build is not optimally played like Rev should be, it's campy and easy to survive on because nothing can catch up to it while the user can sit back and relax on upkeep, reason being speed runes exclusively.

 

Without it, it's a complete different game to play the build.

 

Because every professions can use it doesn't mean it's balanced, values are too high and to tell people they should use it is not solving the issue.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Patch Preview:

>

> Renegade:

> Sevenshot nerf. Sustain cut.

>

> Dragonhunter:

> SoJ power coeff reduced. Traited burning reduced. 1 less charge in PvP

>

> Holosmith:

> Grenade Barrage damage reduced to 0.1 per grenade (It almost does as much dps as Shrapnel Grenade. Nerfed so that it's weaker than the auto attack.)

>

> Thief:

> Shadow arts nerf. Increased ini on heartseeker to 4 (dagger is obv overperforming compared to other mh weapons)

>

> Mesmer: Mirage endurace regeneration cut by 50%. (Too many evades even with one dodge)

>

> Ranger: Jacaranda no longer selectable in PvP.

>

> Weaver: All burning applied now instantly cleanses itself. They chill themselves when attuning to water.

>

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>

> Removed:

>

> Trapper Rune (too much stealth)

> Divinity Rune (Obviously overperforming based on usage)

> Resistance Rune (Makes builds too tanky)

>

> Rabid Amulet (too much toughness. Enables earth weaver)

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Dont. A-net might listen to you!

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > If that's to be taken seriously, core rev has already been nerfed in a broken way which did not affect Renegade because people don't actually play like it.

> > >

> > > They seriously need to consider the real issue on Renegade which is speed rune, legitimately the only reason why the build is so strong and that doesn't account other builds that exploits the 66% as well which could use it also instead of having their class changed in anyway.

> >

> > Generally dont agree.

> > Renegade was untouched for months LITTERALLY until they reworked seven shot to make shortbow a decent weapon in pvp. Speed rune has been in the game far longer and if the main issue was speed rune and only speed rune then renegade would have been ideally just as strong before the changes to the shortbow weapon which was certainly not the case as almost none was playing renegade at that time.

> >

> > In my opinion the reasoning why renegade is as strong as it is is because of how safe it can be while now pushing out above average dps from ranged even with seven shot alone (A skill initially designed to not have all 7 arrows hit the single target, that had very high power scaling and condition cover out put.) This along with other small tweaks to shortbow which made its ability to hit much more consistent made renegade viable as a pvp option.

> >

> > The idea that suddenly speed rune makes it overperform when there were several other factors that are being over looked makes me disagree with you on this.

> > - Multiple changes that considerably improved the shortbow's ease of use and performance possibly putting it above swords effectiveness with less risk as a ranged weapon.

> > - New combo potential with jails legend providing more sustain and defense which most players did not touch in the past because everyone was too busy playing glint/shiro standard.

> >

> > You dont have to agree but i think speed rune is a bit too basic to be the main factor to blame in that case. Its a good rune option but one that everyone can more or less use evenly and can even be negated entirely by using the rune yourself or stripping the foe's swiftness. Its not restrictive while also be super advantageous as something like Trapper (on Ranger or DH) or Resistance (more effective professions that have low cd elites like rev)

> >

>

> The build is not optimally played like Rev should be, it's campy and easy to survive on because nothing can catch up to it while the user can sit back and relax on upkeep, reason being speed runes exclusively.

 

Tbh this statement seems very subjective as each person could have a different vision of how "It should be" played so im not sure that has value here.

 

Part of it is also having a valid ranged weapon speed rune or not rev DID NOT have this before because hammer is not viable in spvp. The difference in having a viable ranged weapon and not having one extremely changes how a class can be played regardless of its movement speed options. If they made rifle less clunky on warrior you would find them harder to chase down too because they would have reliable source of ranged damage to pressure with when you kite them or when they need to kite you.

Ignoring this fact makes me less faithful in the claim you are making that "oh speed runes makes the build an issue."

We still also have to consider how jails fits into the picture providing a no stun zone, damage reduction, and a taunt which people literally chose not to use because everyone ran glint/shiro. obviously Jails has proven to provide a nice chunk of sustain when used properly especially with damage nerfed.

 

Truth is its likely not just the speed rune its a combo of everything above all together. I get you dont want core rev skills changed or shortbow nerfed when it just became viable but I'm not willing to blame a rune for making the build perform well alone too many factors mixed in for me to just out right say that at this point.

 

> Without it, it's a complete different game to play the build.

I could also say this if you take away the now viable shortbow though.

 

> Because every professions can use it doesn't mean it's balanced, values are too high and to tell people they should use it is not solving the issue.

If more professions can use it more or less equally its more balanced than many of the other rune options in the game.

Again telling someone to use it is an option to negate the bonus if you have trouble catching your targets. Right now i dont see the rune as an issue globally.

There are also other options that work like stripping the swiftness from the user.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Renegade:

> Sevenshot nerf. Sustain cut.

 

What would you cut on Renegade when there's nothing to remove, there's only core that's left in an already pathetic inconsistent state. Steadfast has been nerfed twice and is not anymore effective than Versed In Stone (And never was.), Righteous Rebel is not used in the meta, Wrought Iron-Will does nothing that overperforms, Brutal Momentum is high risk high reward.

 

It baffles me that people think Renegade or Sevenshot right now is the problem where as the build because of speed rune is nearly untouchable unless you have it yourself or have means to constantly strip or pressure at range within the same time of negating weakness. The mobility is the real issue and there's literally nothing left to nerf without killing the class altogether just so we can have the same BORING Herald Power all over the place again which might as well be considered dead the moment Resistance gets nerfed also, good riddance though, I hate that Rune with a passion and it's been carrying TOO MANY builds right now, including Herald Condition as well.

 

Seriously, what could you nerf. The vague statement that you suggest alone really shows that even yourself don't know.

 

We could nerf Sevenshot even more but that won't stop people from running around and away from all danger just poking damage over and over while sharing the intricate sustain of Core Revenant that works "good" enough right now unless you add speed runes and just avoid everything altogether to camp upkeep and don't even play the class at all. It's seriously boring, most of Renegade relies around not using evades to maximize damage and it's obvious where the problem comes when one rune makes it so you NEVER have to dodge or avoid everything with movement speed that is not available outside Superspeed which is available to almost no one or niches like Impossible Odds + Rising Momentum but these two have an actual cost to be had unlike the unfathomable amount of Swiftness that's easily accessible.

 

Y'all should look at Bloodbane Path and Spiritcrush instead, those skills haven't had their PvP co-efficient split yet and are undeniably just as heavy hitting as Sevenshot in the right instances. In fact, Sevenshot at best with the current used build can do 5k or so with 25 Might and 6k on zerk, it's definitely lower than what it used to be and the other skills are to be put in consideration because BP does add easily 2k to this, 3k if you're zerk when EVERYTHING crits.

[Kuma.1503]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > Renegade:

> > Sevenshot nerf. Sustain cut.

>

> What would you cut on Renegade when there's nothing to remove, there's only core that's left in an already pathetic inconsistent state. Steadfast has been nerfed twice and is not anymore effective than Versed In Stone (And never was.), Righteous Rebel is not used in the meta, Wrought Iron-Will does nothing that overperforms, Brutal Momentum is high risk high reward.

>

> It baffles me that people think Renegade or Sevenshot right now is the problem where as the build because of speed rune is nearly untouchable unless you have it yourself or have means to constantly strip or pressure at range within the same time of negating weakness. The mobility is the real issue and there's literally nothing left to nerf without killing the class altogether just so we can have the same BORING Herald Power all over the place again which might as well be considered dead the moment Resistance gets nerfed also, good riddance though, I hate that Rune with a passion and it's been carrying TOO MANY builds right now, including Herald Condition as well.

>

> Seriously, what could you nerf. The vague statement that you suggest alone really shows that even yourself don't know.

>

> We could nerf Sevenshot even more but that won't stop people from running around and away from all danger just poking damage over and over while sharing the intricate sustain of Core Revenant that works "good" enough right now unless you add speed runes and just avoid everything altogether to camp upkeep and don't even play the class at all. It's seriously boring, most of Renegade relies around not using evades to maximize damage and it's obvious where the problem comes when one rune makes it so you NEVER have to dodge or avoid everything with movement speed that is not available outside Superspeed which is available to almost no one or niches like Impossible Odds + Rising Momentum but these two have an actual cost to be had unlike the unfathomable amount of Swiftness that's easily accessible.

>

> Y'all should look at Bloodbane Path and Spiritcrush instead, those skills haven't had their PvP co-efficient split yet and are undeniably just as heavy hitting as Sevenshot in the right instances. In fact, Sevenshot at best with the current used build can do 5k or so with 25 Might and 6k on zerk, it's definitely lower than what it used to be and the other skills are to be put in consideration because BP does add easily 2k to this, 3k if you're zerk when EVERYTHING crits.

 

Y'know... The fact that you took that post seriously really makes me question some things.

 

What if ANet took it seriously?

 

How many dumb half-baked arguments must you have slogged through that this one, a parody, hardly stood out from the rest?

 

...Either that or you stopped reading at the first line and decided to write a 4 paragraph long rebuttal on it. :P

If so, you should really give the rest of the post a read over, especially the "Weaver chills itself" bit... I mean... I thought it was funny...

 

 

 

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > > Renegade:

> > > Sevenshot nerf. Sustain cut.

> >

> > What would you cut on Renegade when there's nothing to remove, there's only core that's left in an already pathetic inconsistent state. Steadfast has been nerfed twice and is not anymore effective than Versed In Stone (And never was.), Righteous Rebel is not used in the meta, Wrought Iron-Will does nothing that overperforms, Brutal Momentum is high risk high reward.

> >

> > It baffles me that people think Renegade or Sevenshot right now is the problem where as the build because of speed rune is nearly untouchable unless you have it yourself or have means to constantly strip or pressure at range within the same time of negating weakness. The mobility is the real issue and there's literally nothing left to nerf without killing the class altogether just so we can have the same BORING Herald Power all over the place again which might as well be considered dead the moment Resistance gets nerfed also, good riddance though, I hate that Rune with a passion and it's been carrying TOO MANY builds right now, including Herald Condition as well.

> >

> > Seriously, what could you nerf. The vague statement that you suggest alone really shows that even yourself don't know.

> >

> > We could nerf Sevenshot even more but that won't stop people from running around and away from all danger just poking damage over and over while sharing the intricate sustain of Core Revenant that works "good" enough right now unless you add speed runes and just avoid everything altogether to camp upkeep and don't even play the class at all. It's seriously boring, most of Renegade relies around not using evades to maximize damage and it's obvious where the problem comes when one rune makes it so you NEVER have to dodge or avoid everything with movement speed that is not available outside Superspeed which is available to almost no one or niches like Impossible Odds + Rising Momentum but these two have an actual cost to be had unlike the unfathomable amount of Swiftness that's easily accessible.

> >

> > Y'all should look at Bloodbane Path and Spiritcrush instead, those skills haven't had their PvP co-efficient split yet and are undeniably just as heavy hitting as Sevenshot in the right instances. In fact, Sevenshot at best with the current used build can do 5k or so with 25 Might and 6k on zerk, it's definitely lower than what it used to be and the other skills are to be put in consideration because BP does add easily 2k to this, 3k if you're zerk when EVERYTHING crits.

>

> Y'know... The fact that you took that post seriously really makes me question some things.

>

> What if ANet took it seriously?

>

> How many dumb half-baked arguments must you have slogged through that this one, a parody, hardly stood out from the rest?

>

> ...Either that or you stopped reading at the first line and decided to write a 4 paragraph long rebuttal on it. :P

> If so, you should really give the rest of the post a read over, especially the "Weaver chills itself" bit... I mean... I thought it was funny...

 

Your sarcasm doesn't help people thinking any better. It's a serious issue on Revenant still.