Rush range

[bethekey.8314]

This has been a long time coming. Rush has ridiculous range beyond its stated 1200 value. Based on my crude tests in the video, I'd say it's more like 1500+ range.

 

In my opinion, this error gives warriors free mobility on top of their already very mobile kit and makes it difficult to know when a dodge is necessary. I recorded two clips recently that exemplify this issue. Enjoy!

 

Edit: We've learned that Holo Leap's range in the tooltip is misleading and the "bonus" Rush range is probably less than I originally suggested.

 

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Raffrey.5271" said:

 

> Is it just me? I think it is unfair because look, ranger and guardian GS leap couldn't hit their target, even when they stand still. And warrior GS rush can run AND hit.

 

Considering they can still be movement impaired during the entire 1200 range swag run toward yur target and has no evade frames plus they are skill locked for the entire run or will have to cancel the run itself, I don't think it's that huge of an issue.

 

Maybe for clarity's sake, they should speed up the run, but make the skill run +seek within 1200 as the tooltip says.

 

[Ryuk.6840]

Do the experiment in reverse . Try to use them downhill , going to the npc .

In the jump mechanics , you jump and mid air the animation stops , allowing you to "keep gliding" forward by pushing the "W" key .Downhill , you have more time till you reach the ground and holding "W"" allo you to traverse more area . While upstais you dont have more space to freely "glide"

Bull Rush + Sword 5 are "straight line" spells

Meaning he traveled 1200 range , while you did 380 uphill with Arc (they estimate the distance from the start of the animation till it auto lands , in straight line + no pushing any other bottun)

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Absolutely nobody thinks this is an issue except you. A slightly extended range on a skill that is listed at 1200, so what. Very mobile kit? That consists of Rush, Gs3, and Bulls Charge, all key skills that can't be used at any time if you want to actually achieve anything and are still so ridiculous telegraphed in the case of Rush and Bulls Charge that dodging them needs practically no focus.

 

This isn't even taking into consideration that Rush does pitiful damage even if it does miraculously hit, and it having a bit of extra range than listed is QQ post worthy? One of the most telegraphed skills in the game on the weakest class and you still want it nerfed. Ridiculous. Update the tooltip to show 1500 range if it's such a game breaking issue.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > It's because Rush gives Warrior Increased movespeed for the length of the 1200 range and the skill itself has a seek range of around 200 more to "connect" to their target.

> > Think of it as a homing missile.

> >

> > Is this needed? Not really, but it does help the skill actually land, which is a nice thing to have especially when yur skill runs on cooldowns.

> >

> > Hard to dodge?

> > It's actually extremely easy to dodge because they have an awkward movement cut before their seeking swings the sword. Dodge when their movement abruptly stops and yur entire dodge frame will cover the sword swing.

> >

> > If anything, it's just making them run faster for 1200 range with an attack with a small seek range on their locked target near the end.

> >

> > Is this a big issue? Not at all.

> > Does this give them an extremely unfair advantage? I don't think so.

> >

> > Here's a suggestion for yur next useless thing to complain about :

> > Sigil of Energy giving Mirages and DE an unfair advantage in pvp /s

> >

>

> Is it just me? I think it is unfair because look, ranger and guardian GS leap couldn't hit their target, even when they stand still. And warrior GS rush can run AND hit.

 

Both are leap finishers, one heals and blinds while the other has evade frames. If you seriously believe Rush is unfair compared to these, I don't know what to tell you.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

 

> Both are leap finishers, one heals and blinds while the other has evade frames. If you seriously believe Rush is unfair compared to these, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Not to mention Rush is locked into a channel for the entire length of the Rush + Hit.

This means Warriors have to either cancel it into a cooldown if they want to stop the Rush or let it run its course for it to either hit or get dodged.

 

Rush apparently op.

[Raffrey.5271]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > It's because Rush gives Warrior Increased movespeed for the length of the 1200 range and the skill itself has a seek range of around 200 more to "connect" to their target.

> > > Think of it as a homing missile.

> > >

> > > Is this needed? Not really, but it does help the skill actually land, which is a nice thing to have especially when yur skill runs on cooldowns.

> > >

> > > Hard to dodge?

> > > It's actually extremely easy to dodge because they have an awkward movement cut before their seeking swings the sword. Dodge when their movement abruptly stops and yur entire dodge frame will cover the sword swing.

> > >

> > > If anything, it's just making them run faster for 1200 range with an attack with a small seek range on their locked target near the end.

> > >

> > > Is this a big issue? Not at all.

> > > Does this give them an extremely unfair advantage? I don't think so.

> > >

> > > Here's a suggestion for yur next useless thing to complain about :

> > > Sigil of Energy giving Mirages and DE an unfair advantage in pvp /s

> > >

> >

> > Is it just me? I think it is unfair because look, ranger and guardian GS leap couldn't hit their target, even when they stand still. And warrior GS rush can run AND hit.

>

> Both are leap finishers, one heals and blinds while the other has evade frames. If you seriously believe Rush is unfair compared to these, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Leap of Faith heals _only if_ it hits your target(s). Both Swoop and Leap of Faith can only be used as a gap closer, you can't really expect them to hit, unless you use them point-blank, whereas Rush actually run a long way and deal damage to your foe.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> Leap of Faith heals _only if_ it hits your target(s). Both Swoop and Leap of Faith can only be used as a gap closer, you can't really expect them to hit, unless you use them point-blank, whereas Rush actually run a long way and deal damage to your foe.

 

Are yu actually serious?

So yu mean Rush doesn't actually have to hit to deal damage?

 

And since when can Swoop and Leap of Faith only be used as gap closers?

Am I blind when I see Rangers and Guardians with greatswords using these skills to cover ground and as mobility tools?

 

OH HAHAH WOW.

 

By yur logic :

Leap of Faith and Swoop needs to be target only, because it can be used even without a target despite being a Gapcloser (according to yu)

 

Also an additional tidbit : if Rush is cast without a target locked on, it loses its "seeking" property and doesn't even do the Damage swing at the end. Crazy. I know.

 

[Raffrey.5271]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > Leap of Faith heals _only if_ it hits your target(s). Both Swoop and Leap of Faith can only be used as a gap closer, you can't really expect them to hit, unless you use them point-blank, whereas Rush actually run a long way and deal damage to your foe.

>

> Are yu actually serious?

> So yu mean Rush doesn't actually have to hit to deal damage?

>

> And since when can Swoop and Leap of Faith only be used as gap closers?

> Am I blind when I see Rangers and Guardians with greatswords using these skills to cover ground and as mobility tools?

>

> OH HAHAH WOW.

>

> By yur logic :

> Leap of Faith and Swoop needs to be target only, because it can be used even without a target despite being a Gapcloser (according to yu)

>

> Also an additional tidbit : if Rush is cast without a target locked on, it loses its "seeking" property and doesn't even do the Damage swing at the end. Crazy. I know.

>

 

????

 

Not sure if it was me that sounded too literal at first, or you're taking them too literally. Anyway, gonna steer clear before things start getting unhealthy.

[Shao.7236]

As long as it's not bugged depending on movement speed, it can't really be an issue. Clearly Rush not just one skill but two depending if the target is reached or not hence why it's not comparable to Swoop or Leap of Faith in practice. Best they can do is fix the tool tip with the proper info about it so that's it's better understood, such as;

 

Damage: 686 (1.7)

Attack Range: 300

Range:1200

 

They've done something similar with Deathstrike which is mostly how Warrior Rush feels like anyway, a sequence.

 

@"Yasai.3549" People actually retarget with Rush, so nah. It's seeking property is never really lost.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> This has been a long time coming. Rush has ridiculous range beyond its stated 1200 value. Based on my crude tests in the video, I'd say it's more like 1500+ range.

>

> In my opinion, this error gives warriors free mobility on top of their already very mobile kit and makes it difficult to know when a dodge is necessary. I recorded two clips recently that exemplify this issue. Enjoy!

>

>

>

 

You clearly never played warrior against actual players. Calling warrior very mobile in this day and age of gw2, lol.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > > Leap of Faith heals _only if_ it hits your target(s). Both Swoop and Leap of Faith can only be used as a gap closer, you can't really expect them to hit, unless you use them point-blank, whereas Rush actually run a long way and deal damage to your foe.

> >

> > Are yu actually serious?

> > So yu mean Rush doesn't actually have to hit to deal damage?

> >

> > And since when can Swoop and Leap of Faith only be used as gap closers?

> > Am I blind when I see Rangers and Guardians with greatswords using these skills to cover ground and as mobility tools?

> >

> > OH HAHAH WOW.

> >

> > By yur logic :

> > Leap of Faith and Swoop needs to be target only, because it can be used even without a target despite being a Gapcloser (according to yu)

> >

> > Also an additional tidbit : if Rush is cast without a target locked on, it loses its "seeking" property and doesn't even do the Damage swing at the end. Crazy. I know.

> >

>

> ????

>

> Not sure if it was me that sounded too literal at first, or you're taking them too literally. Anyway, gonna steer clear before things start getting unhealthy.

 

No no no.

**Come back here and explain exactly what yu meant.**

 

Yu trying to argue that Leap of Faith only gets their secondary effects of Heal and Blind only if they hit?

And that they can only be used as gapclosers?

 

Leap of Faith does indeed only trigger the heal and blind if it hits, this much is true.

 

What about the part where they can ONLY BE USED AS GAPCLOSERS?

Wanna explain that?

Wanna show us a video where Leap of Faith and Swoop cease to cover distance if not using it to gap close on the target?

 

Does it not occur to yu that Rush ALSO has to hit in order to deal damage?

 

Please do enlighten all of us, we don't understand what yu meant.

Words are hard.

 

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

 

> @"Yasai.3549" People actually retarget with Rush, so nah. It's seeking property is never really lost.

 

Good point.

I totally missed that Rush can be retargeted mid run in order to change directions to the other target.

 

Still, I was making a point to someone who was trying to argue that Rush is somehow stronger than 2 other skills which function differently in addition to that ridiculous arguement that they can only be used as Gapclosers.

 

And somehow Rush's running is stronger than the other 2 skill's direct displacement of their character model during a leap.

 

Which is strange too, because Swoop is also similar to Rush where it runs 600 Range and leaps 400 range (with evade baked in) with a total of 1000 range covered.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> > @"Yasai.3549" People actually retarget with Rush, so nah. It's seeking property is never really lost.

>

> Good point.

> I totally missed that Rush can be retargeted mid run in order to change directions to the other target.

>

 

If like 3 dudes are surrounding you in a triangular position, you can run in a complete triangle with rush/target next before its range increment ends.

 

Amazing pro techniques. Enjoy the whispers from people who think you are hacking after you do it.

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> If like 3 dudes are surrounding you in a triangular position, you can run in a complete triangle with rush/target next before its range increment ends.

>

> Amazing pro techniques. Enjoy the whispers from people who think you are hacking after you do it.

 

Since this thread is about Rush anyway, do yu think Rush is OP being able to do this?

 

[Alabastrum.9361]

Also all movementskills can be retargeted not just rush.

Rush also very easily Misses when the target moves after the final dash is initiated. Or when other movementskills are acrivated by the target.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > If like 3 dudes are surrounding you in a triangular position, you can run in a complete triangle with rush/target next before its range increment ends.

> >

> > Amazing pro techniques. Enjoy the whispers from people who think you are hacking after you do it.

>

> Since this thread is about Rush anyway, do yu think Rush is OP being able to do this?

>

 

Skills like this OP? hrm.. maybe.

 

Unintended mechanics that provide a heightened skill ceiling for the skill when good players learn to wield it? Definitely.

 

There is some pretty wonky trickery that you can pull while target shifting during mobility skills. Example: A Warrior is at mid in legacy and he is in a 3v3. That Warrior can use a single use of Bull's Charge and bait a dodge or defense skill from his first target, and then he changes to the 2nd target baiting a dodge or defense skill from that target, and then shifts a second time towards the 3rd target with the intention of landing the strike on the 3rd target. <- In this regard, target shifting is turning what is supposed to be a single strike skill, into a skill with the baiting power of an AoE like Dragon's Maw. Rush in particular could be used in the exact same manner.

 

So depending on how you look at it, this could be viewed as a higher skill ceiling in which to utilize a skill, or possible broken or maybe OP.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> > @"Yasai.3549" People actually retarget with Rush, so nah. It's seeking property is never really lost.

>

> Good point.

> I totally missed that Rush can be retargeted mid run in order to change directions to the other target.

>

> Still, I was making a point to someone who was trying to argue that Rush is somehow stronger than 2 other skills which function differently in addition to that ridiculous arguement that they can only be used as Gapclosers.

>

> And somehow Rush's running is stronger than the other 2 skill's direct displacement of their character model during a leap.

>

> Which is strange too, because Swoop is also similar to Rush where it runs 600 Range and leaps 400 range (with evade baked in) with a total of 1000 range covered.

>

 

I think Swoop final leap is the reason it's not as clunky, while Rush "second" skill has some mandatory distance to at least go over before doing damage and then probably dislocate the hitbox at that point hence why it just misses. Personally I never had Rush miss on me from long distances, only short.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Raffrey.5271" said:

> > > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > It's because Rush gives Warrior Increased movespeed for the length of the 1200 range and the skill itself has a seek range of around 200 more to "connect" to their target.

> > > > Think of it as a homing missile.

> > > >

> > > > Is this needed? Not really, but it does help the skill actually land, which is a nice thing to have especially when yur skill runs on cooldowns.

> > > >

> > > > Hard to dodge?

> > > > It's actually extremely easy to dodge because they have an awkward movement cut before their seeking swings the sword. Dodge when their movement abruptly stops and yur entire dodge frame will cover the sword swing.

> > > >

> > > > If anything, it's just making them run faster for 1200 range with an attack with a small seek range on their locked target near the end.

> > > >

> > > > Is this a big issue? Not at all.

> > > > Does this give them an extremely unfair advantage? I don't think so.

> > > >

> > > > Here's a suggestion for yur next useless thing to complain about :

> > > > Sigil of Energy giving Mirages and DE an unfair advantage in pvp /s

> > > >

> > >

> > > Is it just me? I think it is unfair because look, ranger and guardian GS leap couldn't hit their target, even when they stand still. And warrior GS rush can run AND hit.

> >

> > Both are leap finishers, one heals and blinds while the other has evade frames. If you seriously believe Rush is unfair compared to these, I don't know what to tell you.

>

> Leap of Faith heals _only if_ it hits your target(s). Both Swoop and Leap of Faith can only be used as a gap closer, you can't really expect them to hit, unless you use them point-blank, whereas Rush actually run a long way and deal damage to your foe.

 

Rush only damages if you hit your target, so your point is? They have less range? They have more utility, that's called tradeoffs. Guardian can heal and leap in while blinding people or use it as a finisher in whatever field they chose, and Ranger can use it as a gap closer as well while having a free stealth leap finisher in Smokescale F2 while having dodge frames on the attack.

 

Rush is literally just running straight at the target, no damage reduction, no finisher, no secondary effects or use besides run from Point A to Point B and damage if it hits. Because of that it goes farther and can shift at the last second to track, otherwise it would be completely useless and is still already the easiest thing to dodge in the warriors kit, especially when used at range. Iirc it also has a longer CD than both LoF and Swoop even when traited.

[apharma.3741]

If I remember correctly the leap distance on holo leap isn't actually 600, it's something like 450 + 150 is the range of the attack.

 

Warrior not mobile? What alternate dimension have I woken up in, they're mobile _if they want to be_

[bethekey.8314]

> @"Ryuk.6840" said:

> Do the experiment in reverse . Try to use them downhill , going to the npc .

> In the jump mechanics , you jump and mid air the animation stops , allowing you to "keep gliding" forward by pushing the "W" key .Downhill , you have more time till you reach the ground and holding "W"" allo you to traverse more area . While upstais you dont have more space to freely "glide"

> Bull Rush + Sword 5 are "straight line" spells

> Meaning he traveled 1200 range , while you did 380 uphill with Arc (they estimate the distance from the start of the animation till it auto lands , in straight line + no pushing any other bottun)

 

I'll refer you to the second half of the video on flat ground.

 

Also, what you're describing here is a natural result of the "physics" in game. Rush's behavior here is not.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> If I remember correctly the leap distance on holo leap isn't actually 600, it's something like 450 + 150 is the range of the attack.

>

> Warrior not mobile? What alternate dimension have I woken up in, they're mobile _if they want to be_

 

Best response here. After testing, Holo Leap seems shorter than expected, which brings the Rush range closer in line. Thanks for sharing something useful.

 

Yes, greatsword meta builds are and have been very mobile. Forum warriors seem especially touchy about anyone saying their class is good at something.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> There is some pretty wonky trickery that you can pull while target shifting during mobility skills. Example: A Warrior is at mid in legacy and he is in a 3v3. That Warrior can use a single use of Bull's Charge and bait a dodge or defense skill from his first target, and then he changes to the 2nd target baiting a dodge or defense skill from that target, and then shifts a second time towards the 3rd target with the intention of landing the strike on the 3rd target. <- In this regard, target shifting is turning what is supposed to be a single strike skill, into a skill with the baiting power of an AoE like Dragon's Maw. Rush in particular could be used in the exact same manner.

>

> So depending on how you look at it, this could be viewed as a higher skill ceiling in which to utilize a skill, or possible broken or maybe OP.

 

Target shifting to bait a dodge isn't any more op than stowing to cancel a skill. If you're going to balance based on the potential of emergent gameplay, consider context. Namely that that warrior is within 1200 range of three people and any one of them can blind/block/cc/leave the area (In terms of rush,

I'm not sure how often you can target shift bull's charge.)

 

Also don't balance on the potential of emergent gameplay if the end result is easily counterable.

 

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> Yes, greatsword meta builds are and have been very mobile. Forum warriors seem especially touchy about anyone saying their class is good at something.

 

That's not without reason, we saw what people did to signet/zerker damage/damage mitigation off of spellbreaker.

Update the tooltip to account for the attack distance and leave it at that. Warrior won't be suddenly overpowered if rush tooltip says 1500 instead of 1200.

 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > If I remember correctly the leap distance on holo leap isn't actually 600, it's something like 450 + 150 is the range of the attack.

> >

> > Warrior not mobile? What alternate dimension have I woken up in, they're mobile _if they want to be_

>

> Best response here. After testing, Holo Leap seems shorter than expected, which brings the Rush range closer in line. Thanks for sharing something useful.

>

> Yes, greatsword meta builds are and have been very mobile. Forum warriors seem especially touchy about anyone saying their class is good at something.

 

It's not about being touchy the class can be good at something, it's that you're looking at it in a vacuum while also only looking at the positives, crying wolf at something already weak when it's not an issue in the slightest both in said vacuum and in the grand scheme of things.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> It's not about being touchy the class can be good at something, it's that you're looking at it in a vacuum while also only looking at the positives, crying wolf at something already weak when it's not an issue in the slightest both in said vacuum and in the grand scheme of things.

 

Except it is. I post a simple video asking for consistency between skill behavior and description. And then I receive sensitive responses like these:

 

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> Absolutely nobody thinks this is an issue except you.

 

Speaking for everyone.

 

> A slightly extended range on a skill that is listed at 1200, so what. Very mobile kit? That consists of Rush, Gs3, and Bulls Charge, all key skills that can't be used at any time if you want to actually achieve anything

 

What is this hyperbole? Good players use the same skills for different purposes, yes. Good warriors are able to be very slippery with Rush, Whirlwind, Bulls Charge, Rampage 3 + 5, and Dagger or Sword leaps. Obviously, this is somewhat build dependent. The vast majority of warrior builds I've faced have been GS + dagger/shield.

 

> and are still so ridiculous telegraphed in the case of Rush and Bulls Charge that dodging them needs practically no focus.

 

More hyperbole. All the "just dodge" balance team members on this forum must never be hit by any ability. I'd love to set up some duels between you and other warriors and watch as you dodge every each Rush and Bulls Charge outside of a vacuum. Remember, if you ever get hit, you're bad (according to you), so keep your focus!

 

> This isn't even taking into consideration that Rush does pitiful damage even if it does miraculously hit

 

I think I get hit for 5k+ in the video? How spoiled are warriors with damage? Again, more hyperbole.

 

> and it having a bit of extra range than listed is QQ post worthy? One of the most telegraphed skills in the game on the weakest class and you still want it nerfed. Ridiculous. Update the tooltip to show 1500 range if it's such a game breaking issue.

 

Weakest class? Nerfed? What are you even on about?

 

How is there supposed to be any sort of discussion and mutual understanding when you respond like this?