Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Swagger.1459]

> @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> Since the introduction of templates I have been in a bit of a weird situation. I have been able to quickly swap both builds and equipment sets at the push of a button, yes.

>

>

> However.... I'm noticing that more often than not, I am now forced to think really hard about whether I want to do a certain mode of the game on a certain character, because I don't have enough build or equipment slots to play an efficient build for that mode.

>

> An example; I have 4 equipment slots and 4 build slots on my warrior (I bought the extra ones as it is my most played character). The four builds I run are Berserker zerging for wvw, Spellbreaker zerging for wvw, Core warrior roaming for wvw, and Spell breaker roaming for WvW. Now I swap between these builds very regularly. I live in NZ, so in peak times I can happily swap between zerg builds, and when its down time with less people I roam on the roaming builds depending what I feel like.

>

>

> Here is the problem though. Even though I have spent quite a bit of money, if I want to do any PvE content on my warrior, I have to essentially "give up" both an equipment slot and build slot, as the templates arnt actually "locked" and then saved. So I default to using my Berserker roaming build (which has greatsword and 2 axes spin to win) for any pve content... but its highly ineffecient, because taking stances for wvw etc, and again, I can't really swap them without having to change them back later, and if I forget to swap back a trait or ability then.. well thats that.

>

>

> And thats on a character I bought some templates for. My necro now is limited to Open world reaper minion master, and celestial scourge for wvw. And if I want to do some roaming on it in wvw? Welp... i guess id better use my inefficient reaper minion master build in wvw.... can't tweak it without opening note pad on all the little (and big) things that I changed to make it work temporarily....

>

> This whole thing can be solved in either 2 ways (these are my solutions, there may be other ways). I hope that this feedback will reach Anet and they will act on it somehow...

>

>

> 1) Templates cost less, or you get more per the current price. Realistically I would probably need something like 6-10 builds per character. I know before templates came out, people had upwards of 20 per character for certain raid encounters/fractal runs/wvw builds etc. But this is unaffordable! I play 8 classes (the only one i dont touch being ele)... And i want to be able to freely play them all in whichever way I feel like at the time, but without any save button, and the high price of templates... I am finding certain characters of mine locked out of content because I really dont want to change my build templates and change them back etc.... I would say a reasonable price of template is 100 gems per build template and 100 gems per gear template, maybe 150.

>

> 2) Give us a save button that LOCKS the SAVED template. You are free to tinker with build and stuff, but if you click on the template again it will undo all the little tweaks and changes that you have made and go back to the original template. While its not perfectly efficient, I would be happy with even this.

>

>

> 3) give us something, anything, to give me freedom. Templates were supposed to be a good thing. Now, inbetween worrying about whether I lost a legendary among my template builds, why I have an extra sigil of force in my bag and going through all my builds to check if one of my builds is missing a sigil, and removing ONE item and having to check through ALL my builds to make sure that I am not missing a piece of gear on said template... ugh.

>

>

> For a quality of life that took so long to come out, its really inconvenient at times. I am grateful, but it could be so much better.

 

So you’re making up fake problems and blaming Anet?

 

We don’t pay a monthly fee to play, but in exchange, we are charged for nonessential (means stuff you don’t need to play or progress in the game) convenience things.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> One option for build templates is to save the chat codes somewhere on your computer and then load them from there. It takes a little bit longer than switching to a template you have loaded, but it's free and there's no limit on how many builds you can save and swap between.

>

> Also it might be worth thinking about if you really need all these different builds. I typically have 1 build per character for PvE,which I use for everything except raids (and high end Fractals, which I don't do). Sometimes I might swap one skill, but I don't make enough changes that it's difficult to swap it back unless I'm redesigning the build (and then I save the chat code so I can revert back if I need to).

>

> Likewise a lot of my characters will use the same equipment for PvE and WvW. I pick something which works for WvW and then just keep it in PvE because it doesn't matter that much what you're using, and I prefer to have some defensive stats anyway.

 

If you have a spare guild slot(or 5 I guess ...) you can store a bunch of the codes in the motd instead.

[Josiah.2967]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> So.... you were able to play just fine before templates and now? If they are cost prohibitive, then don't buy or use them. Go back to the way you were playing before templates were released.

 

How can anyone thumbs this up? Before there was an alternative to Arenanets templates that worked better, and didn't cost a thing. Arenanet made sure we can't use it so we wouldn't have an alternative.

[Infusion.7149]

Yes the templates are really pricey if you play multiple classes, but it's purely optional. Your best bet if you play multiple game modes (especially fractals due to food & potion timers) is using different character slots since you will be able to use 2 equipment templates for that mode.

I wouldn't buy build storage at all in its current monetization state, just save the chat codes ; build templates _might_ be worth it if you often play more than one build in PvE/WvW since they're hotkeyed. For PvP since builds are locked in once the match starts and you have over a minute to change build, there isn't a reason for buying a template to do PvP. The convenience of not having to swap all armor+weapons+trinkets+runes & sigils &infusions (if you have legendary armor) far outweighs the convenience of not having to copy+paste a chatcode which amounts to 3 traitlines + 9 options ...

 

For most users it's probably best to buy a character slot for WvW/PvP since you'd have 2 equipment templates and 3 build templates. The main offender is guardian since there's just so many builds per game mode (power,condi, quickness support, heal) with mesmer a close second if you play it in PvE (power,condi, boon). It's worse if there's rune swapping (see quickness Firebrand and boon mesmers) and much less painful if it's a weapon swap or armor stat swap (legendary has a checkbox to apply to all armor pieces). The least templates would probably be for power+condi elementalist since you can use sword+dagger (weaver) and scepter+warhorn (tempest) on the same equipment template , with the second tab covering sword+dagger condi and dagger+warhorn (tempest) presuming you don't play heal tempest. Engineer, with its reliance on kits is also a low equipment template demand if you don't play condi since you can use the first for power (rifle/sword+pistol/sword+shield for prot holo) and the second for scrapper (WvW).

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > So.... you were able to play just fine before templates and now? If they are cost prohibitive, then don't buy or use them. Go back to the way you were playing before templates were released.

>

> How can anyone thumbs this up? Before there was an alternative to Arenanets templates that worked better, and didn't cost a thing. Arenanet made sure we can't use it so we wouldn't have an alternative.

 

Before there was an alternative there were no templates at all. That was the point. As for Anet making sure that ARC templates could no longer be used, it has been well documented that the only reason that those were allowed was that they would be removed once an official version was implemented. As for why ANet chose to make them in the fashion that they have, well that's a business decision.

 

But, I'd rather not derail the thread arguing this point again as there are plenty of other posts about templates where this has been covered [ad nauseam](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ad-nauseam).

[Sobx.1758]

It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

[PeerlessArch.6547]

They should have done it differently.

 

Equipment templates and build templates, yay. But let us lock them and give us a "free build" mode in which we can modify with whatever changeable build we want/need without changing our saved equip/trait builds.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.

The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

[crepuscular.9047]

feel free to disagree with me, because i disagree with OP's statement

 

it is expensive because you go down the path of wanting to play multiple builds, and want to be able to quickly switch between them

this is like going to car dealer to buy a Toyota Camry, instead of buying the standard model, you buy the one with leather seats, 8 speakers setup, premium paint

 

ok, you may say, "oh, but I could do it for free before with Arc, which is a massive thread elsewhere already"

it existed only because Anet allowed it, Anet have all the rights to deny ArcDPS, or other injection type of software from their game

 

other games like BDO, the micro transaction (like $20 for a single item :astonished: ) is essential, it's basically unplayable after awakening (equivalent of GW2 elite spec)

you spend 30min riding horse to farm spot, farm for 10-15min your bag is full, and you need spend another 30min riding back to town to sell stuffs; and the pet, gosh...

[Dante.1508]

Personally you are better to buy a new character slot, you get three builds and two gear slots.. three new characters (6 builds) on sale is far cheaper than all the template fiasco.

[Hot Boy.7138]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> So.... you were able to play just fine before templates and now? If they are cost prohibitive, then don't buy or use them. Go back to the way you were playing before templates were released.

 

"If your toilet is backed up, just go back to living in a stone age. Weren't your ancestors doing just fine without plumbing"

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"TwoGhosts.6790" said:

> The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.

> The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

 

You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said:

> > The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.

> > The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

>

> You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

 

I'm not sure we can say whether it's NCSoft's monetization policy vs ArenaNet's policy, really. To (forumites and players), it's a black box. I do see the difference between the (software engineer, artist, writer, etc.) and management, though.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said:

> > The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.

> > The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

>

> You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

 

The first is plausible.

The second is stating the obvious.

Neither changes the facts of my original statement.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

wow. I think its impossible to please the modern mmo gamer. they could do better with templates sure, but people got what they asked for and if some of those people weren't expecting a heavily monetized system then they were living in a bubble.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

Also, just to be clear.

I have no problem with paying a reasonable price for a good quality product.

The problem is that it's a ridiculous price for a shity product.

It represents a massive loss of QOL for me in the game, and a major source of frustration and loss of motivation in playing the game the way I had come to enjoy with ARC Templates.

I have stated elsewhere that I would happily spend 5000 gems on an Anet solution that offered the same elegant, reliable and open-ended solution to templates that ARC did.

But I'm not going to spend a penny on the shitshow that we have at the moment.

Those players that used ARC and/or have legendary items will understand my anger and frustration. Those that don't probably won't.

And that's the greatest irony of Anet's so-called templates launch; those players who would make the most use of a templates system are the ones most alienated by the system as it stands. GG.

[Klypto.1703]

What I hated is how it made you click on equipment every time you open the hero panel and then now it opens up the novelties so now I have to click out of that and then equipment every time I open it now. I am sure they will offer some more gemstore crap to get it back the way it used to be which damn this is making me want to just go back to a game I played before even playing this one.

 

Someone need to redefine what Quality of Life means and it doesn't mean this crap Ugggghhhh(and no I am not paying anything at all for this crap that ship has sailed).

[lare.5129]

almost cool, but a little bit strange that I can't bind spvp weapons to automatic pvp build, and always need hand by hand swap it.

[Dawdler.8521]

It is factually cheaper now since the basic free-for-all part of the templates gives you exactly what you had before **plus free inventory space on each of your characters**. Thus saving you bag/bank space you dont have to buy.

 

Now, most of us have already bought that bag/bank space long ago, but it doesnt alter this fact.

 

Somehow the template situation seem to reflect real life today, sigh.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> It is factually cheaper now since the basic free-for-all part of the templates gives you exactly what you had before **plus free inventory space on each of your characters**. Thus saving you bag/bank space you dont have to buy.

>

> Now, most of us have already bought that bag/bank space long ago, but it doesnt alter this fact.

>

> Somehow the template situation seem to reflect real life today, sigh.

 

I agree. It's a direct parallel to the ppl who complain about p2w arguing that they had to buy the game three times to keep up with power creep, ignoring the fact that new players are getting more for less. It is very difficult for most players to see beyond their immediate experience . . .

[ugrakarma.9416]

the new system is good for regular pve player, but punish too much the typical wvw crowd.

[misterman.1530]

I agree with the OP. I have one set of legendary light armor. I main a Necro (not so much anymore given the constant stream of nerfs). If I have two equipment templates, I have to load each one to remove the armor, before I can put the items in the bank, so I can load the armor onto my ele or mesmer. Since each build has different Runes and, possible, different infusions, not only do I get 6 new items into my inventory, but 6 runes and 6 infusions - essentially, the armor has all the upgrades removed. It's just a really tedious process that equipment templates have NOT made simpler.

 

Since you can't save equipment templates like you can build templates, it's a manual process when switching from character to character. Before you just removed the armor, it kept all the upgrades, put it all into the bank, then log and load up your other character. Now it's a bunch of fiddling around.

 

Equipment templates were poorly thought out and do not take into account legendary gear.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

 

Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

>

> Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

 

And then what? How does it make it obligatory? If you don't remember your builds then it's your problem lmao.

[misterman.1530]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

> >

> > Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

>

> And then what? How does it make it obligatory? If you don't remember your builds then it's your problem lmao.

 

Wow. All the time you insult other players. ALL the time. It's bizarre, really.