Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > If only thief could switch weapons and use an Evade or Kite spec for survibility , if their opener hit didnt hit ... > > > > > > > > > > U mean like all other classes can do as well all while not being balanced around stealth being a big part of their sustain ie more hp, armor, blocks on skills not just one utility, invulnerability skills, healing skills that absorb damage acting like invulnerability etc etc yeah imagine thief builds like dp where stealth wasnt available during combat lol it be completely outclassed by almost every class and their builds, it be completely useless and dead unless as I said thief's sustain got reworked than again that starts taking the rogue like playstyle away and its identity. Good stuff. > > > I get tons of overall evades on my warrior,ranger and rev just as examples, a lot of evades as a whole so the thief has a lot of evades isn't really a great point these days as so do a lot of the more sustain based classes as well. > > > Been 8 yrs, stealth isn't changing I'd bet. > > > > I mean like other games . > > Where you do you oppener attacks > deal 50% of the target hp > you use your defensive cds while you deal the rest of 50% of his hp . > > You can Switch weapons > you dont have to stay on dp > > Stealth isnt changing , but the damage will get lowered or other classes will get more survibility , or they will do the same damage :P > > Oh wait you will whine about powercreep + tankwars and leave once again :P > > Nope their will always be high stealth burst dps in this game from thief or their would be zero incentive for a class like thief to stealth burst in the first place while putting it in the danger of melee range. All that will happen is whining like these post will just keep happening until the game is no more, the same as all the mmo's with rogue type classes :) > It's what makes it so fun to stealth gank in the first place is knowing all the players on the other end cursing over taking the game so seriously lol What ? Thiefs + Rogues in other games works just like that Long Stealth > Burst > use defensive spells > contuinue to dps the target If we are going to use other games , like Eso m, we must do like that > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > Are you implying all those shadow steps, teleports and other skills that change their placement on the fly aren't enough to escape and run away? > > Their extreme survivability already got needlessly buffed with evade on Daggerstorm. > > If u run shodowstep or sb, if not u have no better and even in some cases worse disengage than other more sustainy classes so let's not box them into needing a weaponset and a utility as that's the opposite direction to go. Also as I kinda stated alot of classes have leaps and reat mobility skills these days. A thief shouldn't be boxed into bursting with low damage(as its aperant u all want) to just have to run away cuz it can, with kinda playstyle would that be? It needs something to allow it to stay around the fight for a chance to down its opponent, besides us see a lot less people complaining about the thief disengaging before they could squish em if the thief had tools to stay in the fight and didn't have to run so often. Issue is people want to limit thief's sustain tools without compensation because in the end a dead thief is a good thief am I right? Lol > To put it simple again think where do thief is right now, it's ok but not super strong, now remove stealth in combat with no compensation and where would dp thief be? Yeah in the dumpster Switch weapon , to a more evasive one You have 2 sets of weapons You can be Assasin to one and Rogue to an other dp + s/d + Unhintered Combatant (long range dash on Dodge) trait for mobility > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > Yeah, stealth probably isn't going to change significantly in this game. > > > > > > Let go, you'll feel better. > > > > +1 > > > > after 8 years, the writing is all over the wall > > > > **Toxicity is not going anywhere** > > Actually agree kinda. It's like saying mesmers should have to suffer penalties for every clone deployed because clones is a toxic design in a pvp mode. That would destroy mesmer as a class. > People need to realize rogue like classes and classes like mesmer are meant to feel toxic or cheap as that is their design and theme. Imagine a thief class or class based around confusion distraction etc feeling fair to fight or how much the playstyle would feel off to the players who chose those classes if fighting fair was its playstyle, it wouldn't fit the theme at all. > It's like these players think that the devs are magically going to rework a rogue class or rogue like classes into something that feel fair to fight lmao, not only would they not be a rogue like class at that point but players that would usually use and play the rogue like class wouldn't play it anymore and just leave to another mmo with the rogue like playstyle lol. And that's what gw2 needs even less players. > Ultimately every class even ones like warrior that cant port, go invisibile etc can have aspects that feel OP or unfair to other classes. I get if numbers are to high or if something is over performing at what it does being toned down, that's fine but don't they and make a huge aspect of a actual playstyle unusable because u yourself don't like it cuz it's a waste because u won't succeed as the rogue archetype isn't ever going to change in a way that fights fair nor feels fair to fight, cuz wouldn't be a rogue if it did. For some reason you are describing Eso , where you can mix ad every1 has stealth :) So GW2 every1 must have long stealth ! especially in WvWvW We wont needs mount , if every1 is stealthed :P Eit: Allow ppl to use again https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harpy_Feathers_(consumable) (a bundle sold by Forager Hitkiti in the Harathi Hinterlands) > 3sec Stealth , 6 sec cd in WvWvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > > > If only thief could switch weapons and use an Evade or Kite spec for survibility , if their opener hit didnt hit ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > U mean like all other classes can do as well all while not being balanced around stealth being a big part of their sustain ie more hp, armor, blocks on skills not just one utility, invulnerability skills, healing skills that absorb damage acting like invulnerability etc etc yeah imagine thief builds like dp where stealth wasnt available during combat lol it be completely outclassed by almost every class and their builds, it be completely useless and dead unless as I said thief's sustain got reworked than again that starts taking the rogue like playstyle away and its identity. Good stuff. > > > > I get tons of overall evades on my warrior,ranger and rev just as examples, a lot of evades as a whole so the thief has a lot of evades isn't really a great point these days as so do a lot of the more sustain based classes as well. > > > > Been 8 yrs, stealth isn't changing I'd bet. > > > > > > I mean like other games . > > > Where you do you oppener attacks > deal 50% of the target hp > you use your defensive cds while you deal the rest of 50% of his hp . > > > You can Switch weapons > you dont have to stay on dp > > > Stealth isnt changing , but the damage will get lowered or other classes will get more survibility , or they will do the same damage :P > > > Oh wait you will whine about powercreep + tankwars and leave once again :P > > > > Nope their will always be high stealth burst dps in this game from thief or their would be zero incentive for a class like thief to stealth burst in the first place while putting it in the danger of melee range. All that will happen is whining like these post will just keep happening until the game is no more, the same as all the mmo's with rogue type classes :) > > It's what makes it so fun to stealth gank in the first place is knowing all the players on the other end cursing over taking the game so seriously lol > > What ? > Thiefs + Rogues in other games works just like that > Long Stealth > Burst > use defensive spells > contuinue to dps the target > If we are going to use other games , like Eso m, we must do like that > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > Are you implying all those shadow steps, teleports and other skills that change their placement on the fly aren't enough to escape and run away? > > > Their extreme survivability already got needlessly buffed with evade on Daggerstorm. > > > > If u run shodowstep or sb, if not u have no better and even in some cases worse disengage than other more sustainy classes so let's not box them into needing a weaponset and a utility as that's the opposite direction to go. Also as I kinda stated alot of classes have leaps and reat mobility skills these days. A thief shouldn't be boxed into bursting with low damage(as its aperant u all want) to just have to run away cuz it can, with kinda playstyle would that be? It needs something to allow it to stay around the fight for a chance to down its opponent, besides us see a lot less people complaining about the thief disengaging before they could squish em if the thief had tools to stay in the fight and didn't have to run so often. Issue is people want to limit thief's sustain tools without compensation because in the end a dead thief is a good thief am I right? Lol > > To put it simple again think where do thief is right now, it's ok but not super strong, now remove stealth in combat with no compensation and where would dp thief be? Yeah in the dumpster > > > Switch weapon , to a more evasive one > You have 2 sets of weapons > You can be Assasin to one and Rogue to an other > dp + s/d + Unhintered Combatant (long range dash on Dodge) trait for mobility Yeah they do work like that and so did do thief but community complained about its bursts so dagger autos etc got nerfed among its other aspects like blinding powder resulting in a weak stealth burst in and get out build. That's why its it's barely played. It tool skill to play and was a perfect example of a high burst hit and run playstyle but it got nerfed for zero real reason other than complaints and no compensation basically killing it and making it's only viable dps backstab. I run DA/CS/SA assassin signet bit for full power damage and is glassy asf that can drop a class that's also pure glass in one hit and a few autos if I get the autos off without to much pressure which in that case I'd have to disengage and that's how it should be against all classes not just glass but that full damage glass asf build sets up a backstab on a class like warrior,scourge or similar and it takes half their hp and they just reveal and the thiefs non backstab dagger dps is that of a tanks dps at that poi t and is forced to leave and do another backstab over and over as they reveal and rinse repeat. In eso some tank builds require the nightblades dps to down where in gw2 thiefs dps on autos and skills esp daggers etc outside of backstabs are less than a tanky class like warrior or guard. U go smack a dummy with ur booned up guard or warrior than do the same with thief and tell me the warriors autos and skills dont out dps the thief which is soposed to be a hit hard and run class. That's why thieves resort to stuff like backstab builds where they JUST do stealth backstabs and incorporate as many cheese things as they can cuz if they dont they dont stand a chance. U guys seem like u want the thief to not use cheese mechanics or tactics but don't want it to have the tools to do anything without using those tactics lol. U guys dislike the rogue like tactics that are employed in gw2 which are similar in any rogue in any mmo hence why all those foru.s have these same complaints. The devs arnt gonna change the rogue into a different archetype cuz some people dont like it as it's a staple in all mmo's and always will be, just as these very complaints will always be posted and they day they arnt can only mean that stealth and or the rogue class has been rendered so underpowered and useless that it causes no one grief fighting it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > If only thief could switch weapons and use an Evade or Kite spec for survibility , if their opener hit didnt hit ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U mean like all other classes can do as well all while not being balanced around stealth being a big part of their sustain ie more hp, armor, blocks on skills not just one utility, invulnerability skills, healing skills that absorb damage acting like invulnerability etc etc yeah imagine thief builds like dp where stealth wasnt available during combat lol it be completely outclassed by almost every class and their builds, it be completely useless and dead unless as I said thief's sustain got reworked than again that starts taking the rogue like playstyle away and its identity. Good stuff. > > > > > I get tons of overall evades on my warrior,ranger and rev just as examples, a lot of evades as a whole so the thief has a lot of evades isn't really a great point these days as so do a lot of the more sustain based classes as well. > > > > > Been 8 yrs, stealth isn't changing I'd bet. > > > > > > > > I mean like other games . > > > > Where you do you oppener attacks > deal 50% of the target hp > you use your defensive cds while you deal the rest of 50% of his hp . > > > > You can Switch weapons > you dont have to stay on dp > > > > Stealth isnt changing , but the damage will get lowered or other classes will get more survibility , or they will do the same damage :P > > > > Oh wait you will whine about powercreep + tankwars and leave once again :P > > > > > > Nope their will always be high stealth burst dps in this game from thief or their would be zero incentive for a class like thief to stealth burst in the first place while putting it in the danger of melee range. All that will happen is whining like these post will just keep happening until the game is no more, the same as all the mmo's with rogue type classes :) > > > It's what makes it so fun to stealth gank in the first place is knowing all the players on the other end cursing over taking the game so seriously lol > > > > What ? > > Thiefs + Rogues in other games works just like that > > Long Stealth > Burst > use defensive spells > contuinue to dps the target > > If we are going to use other games , like Eso m, we must do like that > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > Are you implying all those shadow steps, teleports and other skills that change their placement on the fly aren't enough to escape and run away? > > > > Their extreme survivability already got needlessly buffed with evade on Daggerstorm. > > > > > > If u run shodowstep or sb, if not u have no better and even in some cases worse disengage than other more sustainy classes so let's not box them into needing a weaponset and a utility as that's the opposite direction to go. Also as I kinda stated alot of classes have leaps and reat mobility skills these days. A thief shouldn't be boxed into bursting with low damage(as its aperant u all want) to just have to run away cuz it can, with kinda playstyle would that be? It needs something to allow it to stay around the fight for a chance to down its opponent, besides us see a lot less people complaining about the thief disengaging before they could squish em if the thief had tools to stay in the fight and didn't have to run so often. Issue is people want to limit thief's sustain tools without compensation because in the end a dead thief is a good thief am I right? Lol > > > To put it simple again think where do thief is right now, it's ok but not super strong, now remove stealth in combat with no compensation and where would dp thief be? Yeah in the dumpster > > > > > > Switch weapon , to a more evasive one > > You have 2 sets of weapons > > You can be Assasin to one and Rogue to an other > > dp + s/d + Unhintered Combatant (long range dash on Dodge) trait for mobility > > Yeah they do work like that and so did do thief but community complained about its bursts so dagger autos etc got nerfed among its other aspects like blinding powder resulting in a weak stealth burst in and get out build. That's why its it's barely played. It tool skill to play and was a perfect example of a high burst hit and run playstyle but it got nerfed for zero real reason other than complaints and no compensation basically killing it and making it's only viable dps backstab. > I run DA/CS/SA assassin signet bit for full power damage and is glassy asf that can drop a class that's also pure glass in one hit and a few autos if I get the autos off without to much pressure which in that case I'd have to disengage and that's how it should be against all classes not just glass but that full damage glass asf build sets up a backstab on a class like warrior,scourge or similar and it takes half their hp and they just reveal and the thiefs non backstab dagger dps is that of a tanks dps at that poi t and is forced to leave and do another backstab over and over as they reveal and rinse repeat. > In eso some tank builds require the nightblades dps to down where in gw2 thiefs dps on autos and skills esp daggers etc outside of backstabs are less than a tanky class like warrior or guard. U go smack a dummy with ur booned up guard or warrior than do the same with thief and tell me the warriors autos and skills dont out dps the thief which is soposed to be a hit hard and run class. That's why thieves resort to stuff like backstab builds where they JUST do stealth backstabs and incorporate as many cheese things as they can cuz if they dont they dont stand a chance. > U guys seem like u want the thief to not use cheese mechanics or tactics but don't want it to have the tools to do anything without using those tactics lol. > U guys dislike the rogue like tactics that are employed in gw2 which are similar in any rogue in any mmo hence why all those foru.s have these same complaints. > The devs arnt gonna change the rogue into a different archetype cuz some people dont like it as it's a staple in all mmo's and always will be, just as these very complaints will always be posted :) Blinding powder got nerfed form 1-2 sec pulse , because Caed found the only way to counter S/D evade in 2014 tournaments Blame him Dagger autos , just like Rev Sword auto attack when HoT was lanched , could do signicifant amount of damage and you didnt need to do any other spell . It was better the finish the combo to do 2200+2200+3800 with the autos rather than doing a 5500 crit heartseeker. Auto attacks where nerfed 15% ...and guess what the old geezers did ..... they created ''Lead attacks'' (+15% increase damage) on a defensive tree...i mean really ? Before HoT we had an old talent tree , where each points spent on Deadly Arts => offered 10 power ...so maxing out offered 300 Strengh regadles of what class/spec you where . Mud was nerfed and couldnt crit (from 4000 > 2000 damage) , CnD got reduced by 33% ... (along with dancing dagger 3300 crit... from that Clocktower match) Bcakstab dmage was left the same . Before the nerf you could crit the Shasha ..i mean an Enginner with its Rabit/toughness amount gear for 85% of this hp Get you rf acts right.... And coomon .... having an istant teleport from Mug +stun from Basilisc Posion + + Deadly Arts offered Poison + immobilize for 4 sec when you got at 50% of your hp ... it doent seems High skill > High reward . All the job must be done by the victim ... to bring a Stun breaker + Condition Removal + gain distance + use a 0,5 sec heal ..... in 1,5 sec battle Again what are you saying about eso .... I cannot understand you Even S/D that removes Boons + can do 3k crit of the Guardian or Ele tank (which has 11.000 hp) , does not need stealth -Backstab constadly . In d/p you can spam interupt his auto attacks or anything he does and he wont cast anything , while you wear him don with auto attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If only thief could switch weapons and use an Evade or Kite spec for survibility , if their opener hit didnt hit ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U mean like all other classes can do as well all while not being balanced around stealth being a big part of their sustain ie more hp, armor, blocks on skills not just one utility, invulnerability skills, healing skills that absorb damage acting like invulnerability etc etc yeah imagine thief builds like dp where stealth wasnt available during combat lol it be completely outclassed by almost every class and their builds, it be completely useless and dead unless as I said thief's sustain got reworked than again that starts taking the rogue like playstyle away and its identity. Good stuff. > > > > > > I get tons of overall evades on my warrior,ranger and rev just as examples, a lot of evades as a whole so the thief has a lot of evades isn't really a great point these days as so do a lot of the more sustain based classes as well. > > > > > > Been 8 yrs, stealth isn't changing I'd bet. > > > > > > > > > > I mean like other games . > > > > > Where you do you oppener attacks > deal 50% of the target hp > you use your defensive cds while you deal the rest of 50% of his hp . > > > > > You can Switch weapons > you dont have to stay on dp > > > > > Stealth isnt changing , but the damage will get lowered or other classes will get more survibility , or they will do the same damage :P > > > > > Oh wait you will whine about powercreep + tankwars and leave once again :P > > > > > > > > Nope their will always be high stealth burst dps in this game from thief or their would be zero incentive for a class like thief to stealth burst in the first place while putting it in the danger of melee range. All that will happen is whining like these post will just keep happening until the game is no more, the same as all the mmo's with rogue type classes :) > > > > It's what makes it so fun to stealth gank in the first place is knowing all the players on the other end cursing over taking the game so seriously lol > > > > > > What ? > > > Thiefs + Rogues in other games works just like that > > > Long Stealth > Burst > use defensive spells > contuinue to dps the target > > > If we are going to use other games , like Eso m, we must do like that > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > > > Remove the option to enter stealth while in combat. > > > > > > > And remove Stealth from all Non-thief skills, except the few elites dedicated to only apply stealth (Scrapper's drone and Mesmer's mass invisibility). > > > > > > > Rework rune of the trapper to not give stealth. > > > > > > > Make blasting Smoke fields give AoE blind instead of Stealth. > > > > > > > Have Stealth give some detrimental effects (like reducing movement speed or reduce stats while stealth). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many ways to reduce Stealth output and to make Stealth balanced, but apparently Arenanet doesn't want to. > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth in combat and some of ur other suggestions would mean thiefs sustain would need a significant buff or any stealth build would be useless and dead. > > > > > > > > > > Are you implying all those shadow steps, teleports and other skills that change their placement on the fly aren't enough to escape and run away? > > > > > Their extreme survivability already got needlessly buffed with evade on Daggerstorm. > > > > > > > > If u run shodowstep or sb, if not u have no better and even in some cases worse disengage than other more sustainy classes so let's not box them into needing a weaponset and a utility as that's the opposite direction to go. Also as I kinda stated alot of classes have leaps and reat mobility skills these days. A thief shouldn't be boxed into bursting with low damage(as its aperant u all want) to just have to run away cuz it can, with kinda playstyle would that be? It needs something to allow it to stay around the fight for a chance to down its opponent, besides us see a lot less people complaining about the thief disengaging before they could squish em if the thief had tools to stay in the fight and didn't have to run so often. Issue is people want to limit thief's sustain tools without compensation because in the end a dead thief is a good thief am I right? Lol > > > > To put it simple again think where do thief is right now, it's ok but not super strong, now remove stealth in combat with no compensation and where would dp thief be? Yeah in the dumpster > > > > > > > > > Switch weapon , to a more evasive one > > > You have 2 sets of weapons > > > You can be Assasin to one and Rogue to an other > > > dp + s/d + Unhintered Combatant (long range dash on Dodge) trait for mobility > > > > Yeah they do work like that and so did do thief but community complained about its bursts so dagger autos etc got nerfed among its other aspects like blinding powder resulting in a weak stealth burst in and get out build. That's why its it's barely played. It tool skill to play and was a perfect example of a high burst hit and run playstyle but it got nerfed for zero real reason other than complaints and no compensation basically killing it and making it's only viable dps backstab. > > I run DA/CS/SA assassin signet bit for full power damage and is glassy asf that can drop a class that's also pure glass in one hit and a few autos if I get the autos off without to much pressure which in that case I'd have to disengage and that's how it should be against all classes not just glass but that full damage glass asf build sets up a backstab on a class like warrior,scourge or similar and it takes half their hp and they just reveal and the thiefs non backstab dagger dps is that of a tanks dps at that poi t and is forced to leave and do another backstab over and over as they reveal and rinse repeat. > > In eso some tank builds require the nightblades dps to down where in gw2 thiefs dps on autos and skills esp daggers etc outside of backstabs are less than a tanky class like warrior or guard. U go smack a dummy with ur booned up guard or warrior than do the same with thief and tell me the warriors autos and skills dont out dps the thief which is soposed to be a hit hard and run class. That's why thieves resort to stuff like backstab builds where they JUST do stealth backstabs and incorporate as many cheese things as they can cuz if they dont they dont stand a chance. > > U guys seem like u want the thief to not use cheese mechanics or tactics but don't want it to have the tools to do anything without using those tactics lol. > > U guys dislike the rogue like tactics that are employed in gw2 which are similar in any rogue in any mmo hence why all those foru.s have these same complaints. > > The devs arnt gonna change the rogue into a different archetype cuz some people dont like it as it's a staple in all mmo's and always will be, just as these very complaints will always be posted :) > > Blinding powder got nerfed form 1-2 sec pulse , because Caed found the only way to counter S/D evade in 2014 tournaments > Blame him > > Dagger autos , just like Rev Sword auto attack when HoT was lanched , could do signicifant amount of damage and you didnt need to do any other spell . > It was better the finish the combo to do 2200+2200+3800 with the autos rather than doing a 5500 crit heartseeker. > Auto attacks where nerfed 15% ...and guess what the old geezers did ..... they created ''Lead attacks'' (+15% increase damage) on a defensive tree...i mean really ? > > Before HoT we had an old talent tree , where each points spent on Deadly Arts => offered 10 power ...so maxing out offered 300 Strengh regadles of what class/spec you where . > Mud was nerfed and couldnt crit (from 4000 > 2000 damage) , CnD got reduced by 33% ... (along with dancing dagger 3300 crit... from that Clocktower match) > Bcakstab dmage was left the same . > Before the nerf you could crit the Shasha ..i mean an Enginner with its Rabit/toughness amount gear for 85% of this hp > > Get you rf acts right.... > > And coomon .... having an istant teleport from Mug +stun from Basilisc Posion + + Deadly Arts offered Poison + immobilize for 4 sec when you got at 50% of your hp ... it doent seems High skill > High reward . > All the job must be done by the victim ... to bring a Stun breaker + Condition Removal + gain distance + use a 0,5 sec heal ..... in 1,5 sec battle > > Again what are you saying about eso .... > I cannot understand you > Even S/D that removes Boons + can do 3k crit of the Guardian or Ele tank (which has 11.000 hp) , does not need stealth -Backstab constadly . > In d/p you can spam interupt his auto attacks or anything he does and he wont cast anything , while you wear him don with auto attacks > > Lmao yeah u just spam ur autos and headshot to interrupt a warrior and see how that goes as it's just that easy is it? anyway just by that statement I can see this has no point, just like this post :) it wont be changed and u guys will just have to suck it up or keep pointlessly spamming ur stealth OP threads, either way could care less:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 But when you reistall the game collec some gold.....and give me next time to me when you quit :P I am poor:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > I’ve had to say this a lot recently: > > Repeating the same incorrect arguments over and over in new threads every week doesn’t make your argument stronger. > > It just makes you look foolish. Particulary when it comes from the same people each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssisis.3971 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > Imagine crying about stealth while the actual problem is powercreep > > > > Imagine two problems existing at the same time > > Imagine one of them not beeing a problem until the other emerged Stealth has always been a problem, long before the power creep of pof and hot. Not sure about whether it was in pvp, but it certainly was a pain in the ass in wvw with the old invisible thief build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > TLDR: I play a class that doesn't rely on stealth and I don't like fighting the ones that do and are balanced around stealth. > > Here's a load of biased examples with cherry picked information to make stealth in GW2 look broken mechanically. > > Edit: I guess I should "be constructive" before that overzealous mod takes the stick out of where it is and hits this post, the only problem with stealth in this game is that stacking of it needs to be brought under control. Classes outside of mesmer and thief should not have access to long duration stealth and they should have their stealth options cut down. Why a class with warrior levels of sustain, the best block in the game, high levels of endurance regen, evades that make daredevils look worried, the longest range and an ai to do half the damage needs to also have one of the highest singular stealth uptime skills in the game is beyond me. But long durations of stealth have also been important for PvE. You would need to do more skill splits in order to make it fair in PvP and useful in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flandre.2870 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 xxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Also something the OP forgot to mention is that all it takes to break combat in World of Warcraft is 6 seconds of not taking or dealing damage. And unlike GW2 proximity does not matter. So a rogue can hit you with a gouge or blind (Soft CC that break on damage), both of which are long enough to allow a rogue to break combat and restealth. And even if he has dots on him he can time it so he can still time it so he can land a very powerful stealth attack. So imagine if instead of all the individual skills that grant stealth in short bursts, imagine if thieves and mesmers had another profession mechanic with a functional 6 second cooldown that gave PERMANENT stealth at the push of a botton. And if they don't want to wait that six seconds they have a cooldown for that. I do not think for all the sour grapes people have about stealth any one would actually find that preferable. Again, this is what you guys are talking about as so much more healthy than GW2. Definitely a case of "grass is always greener." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"hellsqueen.3045" said: > But long durations of stealth have also been important for PvE. For what exactly? Other than for skipping content that Anet designed to be played? I can't think of any meaningful application in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > To put it in very simple terms...**stealth in Gw2 is just broken**, the implemented design is not healthy and lacks all competitive elements found in all other well known MMOs out there sporting the same stealth concept. To cite few examples : > > 1) World of Warcraft > https://wow.gamepedia.com/Stealth > > 2) Final fantasy : A realm reborn > https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hide > > 3) Elder scroll Online > https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stealth > > The main points here are : > - You cannot restealth while in combat > - AoE dmg reveals you > - Penalties while stealthed > - Easy for the enemy to detect you > > All the elements above are **missing** from Gw2 in their entirety, it is for this reason that I consider stealth in GW2, one of the worst implementations I have ever seen in a MMO, there is no other way to say it but I still have hope in one small corner of my heart that anet devs will address all these issues with the next balance pass..a faint hope. > > I have no doubt that the thief/mesmer police will come here mocking, "insulting" and with the usual L2P gibberish but..I am not worried about that, those among you who played other MMOs..know that I am right, the devs here know that I am right...whether any of this will ever be addressed....... > > Things like deadeye, PU one shot....should not exist in a MMO By this logic, mounts are also weirdly implemented. They are part of your actual progression, not just something you buy for gold once you reach a certain level. They are way too fluid and fun to use, each and every mount has a distinc feel to it instead of being a simple resking of the "walking" or "flying" mount. As we all know, things cannot be different, all games have to work alike, so I hereby petition to make mounts either fly or walk, be proper reskins of each other, and give them simpler animations that only correlate with how I press WASD, not with how actual animals would move. #Makemountsbadagain On a serious note, if you want to criticise stealth, explain why it's bad in the context of THIS game, noone in their right mind cares about other games when balancing things in this one. The combat system of this game is truly unique, inserting a stealth model from any other games you mentioned wouldn't work here. It would only create problems: How would Deadeye(or thief in general) work if you cannot restealth in combat? What would the point be to all the traits/skills revealing the enemy if they cannot stealth anyway? Stealth needs continous investment to be maintained, it prevents capture point contribution, why would you need a penality on top of that? Also, saying "everyone knows I'm right" makes you more wrong. I'm just saying what everyone's thinking... (See?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"hellsqueen.3045" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > TLDR: I play a class that doesn't rely on stealth and I don't like fighting the ones that do and are balanced around stealth. > > > > Here's a load of biased examples with cherry picked information to make stealth in GW2 look broken mechanically. > > > > Edit: I guess I should "be constructive" before that overzealous mod takes the stick out of where it is and hits this post, the only problem with stealth in this game is that stacking of it needs to be brought under control. Classes outside of mesmer and thief should not have access to long duration stealth and they should have their stealth options cut down. Why a class with warrior levels of sustain, the best block in the game, high levels of endurance regen, evades that make daredevils look worried, the longest range and an ai to do half the damage needs to also have one of the highest singular stealth uptime skills in the game is beyond me. > > But long durations of stealth have also been important for PvE. > You would need to do more skill splits in order to make it fair in PvP and useful in PvE. No it haven't, ask any speed runner from the dungeon days and most of it is skipped by using mobility skills and not being hit or getting out of aggro range. Only place long duration stealth is of any real use is Arah path 2 at the end but even then 5 people who aren't complete fools can plough through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I played NVO where one could be stealthed WHILE contesting the node, and attacking didnt reveal you. and it was fine on most classes. was only OP on rogue ( the most broken thing in the history of gameing, never seen more piece of shit broken class ANYWHERE and that includes bugged karthus in lol that couldnt die, and gf ) for the rest of the classes it was fine. If game balance is fine, then stealth is fine. 1shoting is toxic but so is dodging for 30s+ nonstop. defensive powercreep led to this shit, relisticaly how do you kill someone that can dodge 30 times in a span of 60s? he HAS to fuck up, you playing good not gonna cut it unless you can land something with no real way to counter, like instacast or stealth attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenix.6198 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I honestly prefer GW2's stealth mechanic over ESO's and WoW's implementation (have played both in the past as well). It's more dynamic and active compared to where stealth is kind of "permanent" until you open on somebody.....which - at least imo - is way less interactive. Not talking about power-levels here (since those can simply be adjusted via numeric values).....merely from a design PoV. The only real difference I see between those implementations is, that in GW2, stealth can also more reliably used as a defensive mechanic. And the effectiveness of stealth as a defense-mechanic is mostly tied to it's duration. Mesmer stealth for instance (apart from Mass invis) seems like a good middle-ground between offensive and defensive effectiveness. If a mesmer uses Torch#4 for instance, you can still somewhat chase them down if you can vaguely predict their pathing. Same with DP-thief, which are somewhat limited in their stealth-stacking by having to combo inside stationary smoke-fields (or standing in a stationary SR for that matter). Also, against (somewhat) aware players, it is not exactly easy to surprise them from stealth if you have to stealth up in their field of view with low-ish duration stealths. Like, If you get oneshot from stealth by a mesmer that used Torch#4, chances are, that he already was in your field of view. Problems only arise, when stealth lasts long enough for someone to not make predictions (or if it was cast outside of someones field of view). So I somewhat agree that stealths with a longer duration of ~5seconds could need a look at by the balance devs. Mainly, Mass invis, elixir S toss, and potentially even scrapper elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I've been saying that since the game released. Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide. Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short. It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > I've been saying that since the game released. > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide. > Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short. > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on... you also forgot to mention that most other games have stealth tied to the characters for free. they dont have to give up anything for it, they just have it. and they sure as hell dont have less stats/damage/good traits becouse of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 On a side note, I'm all to giving aoe rollfacing builds instead of stealth to mesmer to be in pair with gwenr class but seeing how the only aoe aka chaostorm get multi whine, I think some will still be there to cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasss.1208 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 To the original post/poster: You really shouldn't compare GW2 balance to WoWs. That game has instant cast, multiple seconds long hard CCs; two people can chain up more than half minute long CC chains; and stunbreaking abilities are usually on a 2 minutes+ cooldown. That game is balanced completely differently. As for the stealth there: Rogue has access to instant stealth, that is permanent, as long as they are not hit. (Just a reminder: In GW2 you can spam autoattacks without a target, so everyone has free spammable short ranged aoe.) And their damage depends on blowing all of their cooldowns, along with a 5 minute one, to combo down their enemies. So let me tell you: You get an even more toxic gameplay against rogue there, where you just watch your monitor as you are getting chain CCd to death. In my opinion, GW2 stealths only problem is, that low-end computers needs more time to render the ambushing player. But other than that, nothing that some simple balance adjustments couldn't fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > To put it in very simple terms...**stealth in Gw2 is just broken**, the implemented design is not healthy and lacks all competitive elements found in all other well known MMOs out there sporting the same stealth concept. To cite few examples : > > > > > > 1) World of Warcraft > > > https://wow.gamepedia.com/Stealth > > > > > > 2) Final fantasy : A realm reborn > > > https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hide > > > > > > 3) Elder scroll Online > > > https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stealth > > > > > > The main points here are : > > > - You cannot restealth while in combat > > > - AoE dmg reveals you > > > - Penalties while stealthed > > > - Easy for the enemy to detect you > > > > > > All the elements above are **missing** from Gw2 in their entirety, it is for this reason that I consider stealth in GW2, one of the worst implementations I have ever seen in a MMO, there is no other way to say it but I still have hope in one small corner of my heart that anet devs will address all these issues with the next balance pass..a faint hope. > > > > > > I have no doubt that the thief/mesmer police will come here mocking, "insulting" and with the usual L2P gibberish but..I am not worried about that, those among you who played other MMOs..know that I am right, the devs here know that I am right...whether any of this will ever be addressed....... > > > > > > Things like deadeye, PU one shot....should not exist in a MMO > > > > In all those games it's also literally permanent until you decide to end it manually or damage an opponent. > > > > Also in all those games are ways to re-enter stealth in combat, it's just a different spell. > > > > So yeah the actual rogue skill Stealth doesn't work in combat. But the skill Vanish puts them back in stealth in combat. > > > > Or Mage casts Invisiblity on themselves to become invisible. Or Mass Invisiblity to make them and their allies invisible. And yes, it works in combat. > > > > Also while I can't say for how it is in retail WoW right now, between Classic and WotLK when I played stealth was not easy to detect. Impossible if they were behind you and if the rogue was in front of you trying to attack very, very little warning. About melee range +50%. > > > > > > > > At around 19 minutes in you can see exactly what Stealth looks like and how "easy to detect". And that is consistent with stealth until I stopped playing during WotLK. > > > > And I know that by Legion WoW stealth lost it's movement penalty removed. > > > > So right from the word "go" your post is loaded with outright misinformation or hiding important facts like the fact that in at least WoW and FF14 Stealth is PERMANENT until cancelled. > > Dots/Posions/Bleeds , didnt allow you to restealth They wouldn't allow you to stay restealthed, but as long as you weren't hit with another attack or didn't do another attack you could break combat with a cc, restealth and then land another stealth attack if you timed it right. And later on they added ways for rogues to remove all dots except bleeds. > Only in you where a Mage , where you casted ''Shields'' (Mana Shield) on yourself and the damage of Dots/Posions/Bleeds couldnt destealth you . > But mages got a 5 min cd , Mass invisibility 2 expanions later > > Not damaging-Aoes-Debuffs , like warriors Reduce-Attack-Power-aoe-Shouts could destealth you First off they need to know you're there. If you're competent on rogue that isn't happening until it's too late. Second they need to spend cooldowns like Blood Rage to get the rage needed to actual cast those shouts, and if those shouts missed which is entirely possible because they don't have a huge range that was you're one chance to do so for an entire minute. > > Potions of lesser detect invisibility , which gave the exact buff as Felhunter , or you could command your pet to give its buff to every team8 , while you waited in 1:30 min before the match starts . I don't think this is accurate. Invisibility is different than stealth in World of Warcraft. I do not think this potion impacts stealth detection. Detect Invisibility is about stuff like the Ghosts that are in the entrance of Undercity or in front of Scholomance. Stealth is just stealth. > (i used to be a Human Soul link(trasfer 30% of damage to the pet) Warlock) > @@ Human for their Racial -See-more-easily-stealth Again it's a three minute cooldown and they need to know you're there before hand and a smart rogue will either stay far enough away to not get seen or is rushing them before they know they'll even need to push it. > > If the Rogue was moving towards you , without the 50% increase movement speed cd (Sprint) , there was a 50% chance to detect him (bonus survibility if you had a mount) . > The chance depents of the engine + if you where moving sideways (while the thief towards you) to give the engine 2-3 sec to ''proceess it'' (just like the ''culling'' in the WvWvW 2expanions ago , that you could see the enemy showing in your schreen 2000 yards away from you , rather to see him from afar) . > As the optimazation of the engine became beter and you could see enemies from afar more faster , they implanted traits in TBC or Wrath , that stealth was more hard-to-see-them (but flying mounts where introduced in TBC for open-World-Pvp/pve , so they counter each other ?) I don't think any of this is accurate. 50% chance to detect a rogue doesn't even make sense. It's based on proximity and cone of vision. Even the way you'd code a mechanic like that into the engine, it'd be something like increase the range at which you detect the rogue by 50% based on certain variables. > (In Vanilia PvP from the Allaince (good guys) you didnt have a healer , bcause the Horde had Shamans (spamm removed boons / 4 sec silence / 20% chance to hit you for 40% of your hp with Windfurry + the damage vs healing was too high.... Uhhh. In Vanilla PvP your healers are Priests, Druids, and the Alliance only Paladins. > but thank god we had Warrior => if the enemy dodged (Rogue had more chance) => they casted Overpwered (if crit=30% of Rogues hp as damage) cannot be Dodged) > A rogue who knows what they are doing will beat the warrior in vanilla wow. Overpower helps it from being insanely onsided in the rogues favor, but Evasion is still a brutal cooldown to have to go up against for a warrior. And even if the rogue can't beat the warrior there's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > To put it in very simple terms...**stealth in Gw2 is just broken**, the implemented design is not healthy and lacks all competitive elements found in all other well known MMOs out there sporting the same stealth concept. To cite few examples : > > > > > > > > > > 1) World of Warcraft > > > > > https://wow.gamepedia.com/Stealth > > > > > > > > > > 2) Final fantasy : A realm reborn > > > > > https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hide > > > > > > > > > > 3) Elder scroll Online > > > > > https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stealth > > > > > > > > > > The main points here are : > > > > > - You cannot restealth while in combat > > > > > - AoE dmg reveals you > > > > > - Penalties while stealthed > > > > > - Easy for the enemy to detect you > > > > > > > > > > All the elements above are **missing** from Gw2 in their entirety, it is for this reason that I consider stealth in GW2, one of the worst implementations I have ever seen in a MMO, there is no other way to say it but I still have hope in one small corner of my heart that anet devs will address all these issues with the next balance pass..a faint hope. > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubt that the thief/mesmer police will come here mocking, "insulting" and with the usual L2P gibberish but..I am not worried about that, those among you who played other MMOs..know that I am right, the devs here know that I am right...whether any of this will ever be addressed....... > > > > > > > > > > Things like deadeye, PU one shot....should not exist in a MMO > > > > > > > > In all those games it's also literally permanent until you decide to end it manually or damage an opponent. > > > > > > > > Also in all those games are ways to re-enter stealth in combat, it's just a different spell. > > > > > > > > So yeah the actual rogue skill Stealth doesn't work in combat. But the skill Vanish puts them back in stealth in combat. > > > > > > > > Or Mage casts Invisiblity on themselves to become invisible. Or Mass Invisiblity to make them and their allies invisible. And yes, it works in combat. > > > > > > > > Also while I can't say for how it is in retail WoW right now, between Classic and WotLK when I played stealth was not easy to detect. Impossible if they were behind you and if the rogue was in front of you trying to attack very, very little warning. About melee range +50%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At around 19 minutes in you can see exactly what Stealth looks like and how "easy to detect". And that is consistent with stealth until I stopped playing during WotLK. > > > > > > > > And I know that by Legion WoW stealth lost it's movement penalty removed. > > > > > > > > So right from the word "go" your post is loaded with outright misinformation or hiding important facts like the fact that in at least WoW and FF14 Stealth is PERMANENT until cancelled. > > > > > > 'To put it in very simple terms...stealth in Gw2 is just broken, **the implemented design is not healthy and lacks all competitive elements** found in all other well known MMOs' > > > > > > That is the exact point of the Op thread > > > > > >  > > > > > > > You and the OP are being deliberately misleading about the "competitive elements" of stealth other MMORPGs. That is the point of my response. > > you're missing the whole point again, The Op is stating how guild wars 2 stealth design is Toxic-unhealthy compare to other games who implements healthy competitive stealth design > > **Healthy Competitive Stealth Design vs Toxic Unhealthy Non-Competitive Stealth Design** > > **-T R U T H-** > > guild wars 2 stealth design is Toxic You're the one that's "missing" (or pretending to miss) the point -OP (and you) lies about his examples of stealth in other mmos in order to push his agenda, which is what mortialus pointed out. And he's correct about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > I've been saying that since the game released. > > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide. > > Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short. > > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on... > > you also forgot to mention that most other games have stealth tied to the characters for free. > they dont have to give up anything for it, they just have it. > and they sure as hell dont have less stats/damage/good traits becouse of it What do you give up to get stealth here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > What do you give up to get stealth here? They probably referred to the utility slots used for skills that grant Stealth, as other games allow/expect you to have every single skill (and other stuff, too) on your bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > I've been saying that since the game released. > > > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide. > > > Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short. > > > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on... > > > > you also forgot to mention that most other games have stealth tied to the characters for free. > > they dont have to give up anything for it, they just have it. > > and they sure as hell dont have less stats/damage/good traits becouse of it > > What do you give up to get stealth here? utilities/weaponsets/traits. core 1shot mes for example takes : 1 torch 2 decoy 3 mass invis 4 chaos traitline 1 weapon set, 1 utility,1 elite, 1 entire traitline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > I've been saying that since the game released. > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide. > **Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive** but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short. > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on... **+1** Enough said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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