GW2 Stealth : Extremely poor implementation respect to other MMOs

[vesica tempestas.1563]

Aoe should break stealth as a minimum and you should only be able to stealth for a few seconds and then have a cool down of 5-10.

[Avatar.3568]

Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth, if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

 

Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

>

> **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**

 

'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'

 

 

'Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve'

 

[bluri.2653]

you forgot to mention that soon every single class has reveal :) maybe use them

[Daishi.6027]

Only thing stealth has EVER needed was for whiffs to reveal. You screw up and your opponent evades or block (or hell you time it poorly in a team fight and they randomly dodge, or you throw out an attack while blinded) you shouldn't keep your safety; and you should be revealed.

 

I can understand AoE not revealing in a game where pretty much everything AoE's with cleave.

It makes sense for Stealth not punishing your movement or having a strange requirement, because- and particularly in this fast paced game- that would feel awful.

I don't mind every class not having simple easy access reveal, because I think that creates a good variety in match-ups.

 

What I cannot really condone is how wiffs are not punished, and frankly stealth is only ONE of many things in the game that I wish followed that standard.

 

I know A-net early on did something because thieves would accidentally auto attack and reveal themselves; but I'm sorry that should just be part of the learning curve if they cannot program in some sort of "Hit vs Player" interaction, even if it's a miss or block. If this messes with some skill interactions and removes functionality, simply makes those skills with the intended functionality alone not reveal.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"lightstalker.1498" said:

> > In elder scrolls, nightblades are cloaked, invisible. It's not stealth.

> >

> > https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Invisibility

>

> Yes its invisible, cleanses and chains together with press of a button, no having to use a skill than other skills to stack it ie smoke fields in gw2. Long duration stealth is 10x easier in eso, archeage u get 10+ seconds at press of one button and bdo as well lol. Actually I'd say gw2 has the most hoops to go thru for long duration stealth, most limitations as well compared to all the other mmo's I've played. Devs even went as far as marked zones in wvw where more than 2 sec stealth reveals u lol.

 

The idea in GW2 is stealth is very low duration, but very overpowered.

 

In most other games some kind of serious limitations exist. Such as requiring you to stand still or go very slow. Only allowing a very limited skillset to be used during stealth. Requiring the player to go through an "unstealth" animation before being able to attack again. These are the kind of limits other games have, and GW2 has none of them.

[Curennos.9307]

Something to control the stealth-stacking builds would be nice + reveal options w/opportunity cost where needed.

 

Feels like stealth is in a perpetually weird state depending on class. Stealth on most thief builds is fine cuz they have a decent amount of access, but not much ability to stack. Shadow arts could use more attention on how it increases stealth durations and has a trait or two that still over-rewards stacking. Shadow Meld probably should not remove revealed. Binding Shadow should have a reveal attached to casting.

 

A lot of issues, I think, are not with stealth - rather, they're how classes lose and acquire options that interact with stealth. Mes stealth wasn't an issue until a trait got buffed and the build retained 1-sec-instant-death capability.

 

DE stealth wasn't a problem until people realized you could cast Binding Shadow and it would hide the animation.

 

I don't have beef with ranger stealth so much as I have beef with that a class that was given extra beefiness because it didn't have stealth, suddenly had access to it on a pet that also gives a ton of other things.

 

Damage modifiers have been piling up for years - but that's not exactly a stealth problem, it's a powercreep thing. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet assassin's signet used to have its power spread out across 5 hits xD

 

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth, if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

>

> Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve

 

The skill curve is irrelevant, the issue is that a player should not be able be in stealth for a significant % of time, it's poor gameplay. If they have to be on stealth for significant periods of time then fix the root cause.

[lare.5129]

as player who play wow 5+ years 90% as rogue main I have another vision..

 

And why I don't play non stop thief, my favorite class in GW2? It is hard. I like once time press stealth and don't worry .. But in GW2 I should always keep rotation to get invise, blast, again blast, and "eat" you skill bars for that skill. It is to hard.

Also I not have sap, and other features ..

 

So we set "Thumbs Up" that you get old nice memories, but you have wrong view.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth, if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

> >

> > Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve

>

> The skill curve is irrelevant, the issue is that a player should not be able be in stealth for a significant % of time, it's poor gameplay. If they have to be on stealth for significant periods of time **then fix the root cause**.

 

**+1**

 


 


 

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > I've been saying that since the game released.

> > > > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide.

> > > > Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short.

> > > > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on...

> > >

> > > you also forgot to mention that most other games have stealth tied to the characters for free.

> > > they dont have to give up anything for it, they just have it.

> > > and they sure as hell dont have less stats/damage/good traits becouse of it

> >

> > What do you give up to get stealth here?

>

> utilities/weaponsets/traits.

> core 1shot mes for example takes :

> 1 torch

> 2 decoy

> 3 mass invis

> 4 chaos traitline

> 1 weapon set, 1 utility,1 elite, 1 entire traitline.

 

Every other offhand is trash.

SoM is better but also provides stealth.

The only elite worth it on core is MI, the others are trash not even worth the elite status.

Chaos is for noobs anyway.

 

To sum it up you gave up damage for some survival, damage that still is more than enough for instagib. You didn't gave up much.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > I've been saying that since the game released.

> > > > > Stealth in gw2 is a "how to **not** do 101" guide.

> > > > > Stealth as a whole should not exist in any game that wants to be competitive but some other games make it more fair with movement speed penalties, you still can see through stealth, damage reveals them, long CDs, you can't restealth in combat, and so on. This game is the total opposite, stealth grants a kittenton of bonus, you can restealth and CDS are short.

> > > > > It's one of the mechanics were ANerf though they were smarter than every other game developer and done goofed, similar smartkittenery with shadowsteps, no resource mechanics and so on...

> > > >

> > > > you also forgot to mention that most other games have stealth tied to the characters for free.

> > > > they dont have to give up anything for it, they just have it.

> > > > and they sure as hell dont have less stats/damage/good traits becouse of it

> > >

> > > What do you give up to get stealth here?

> >

> > utilities/weaponsets/traits.

> > core 1shot mes for example takes :

> > 1 torch

> > 2 decoy

> > 3 mass invis

> > 4 chaos traitline

> > 1 weapon set, 1 utility,1 elite, 1 entire traitline.

>

> Every other offhand is trash.

> SoM is better but also provides stealth.

> The only elite worth it on core is MI, the others are trash not even worth the elite status.

> Chaos is for noobs anyway.

>

> To sum it up you gave up damage for some survival, damage that still is more than enough for instagib. You didn't gave up much.

 

focus offhand is amazing, if you think otherwise you are wrong.

only thing torch does is give stealth

midnight isnt better, it doesnt even cover mantra recharge -> burst, thats why decoy is used.

with MI I will agree, but still doesnt change a fact that you cant use other heroics.

and chaos provides nothing other then invisibility duration and superspeed.

The fact that you find this giving up " nothing " says many things about you.

What games actually do is bake stealth for FREE into the kits.

 

Example, one hero has movespeed boost that deals bonus damage on autoattack, thats it.

Stealth hero uses ability to stealth and gain movespeed, and his next auto crits, thus dealing extra damage.

Meaning stealth is FREE.

You dont give up stupid utility slots for it or entire traitlines or god forbid entire weapon skills.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> Something to control the stealth-stacking builds would be nice + reveal options w/opportunity cost where needed.

>

 

Why would you need that? Maintaining stealth needs continous investment, and it means you're basicly doing nothing for your team as you cannot contest/capture points nor are you fighting, you're just sitting in stealth. Also reveal opportunities are already there. Almost every class can fit a reveal into it's skillbar, 90% of them are multipurpose skills prepping a burst.

 

> Feels like stealth is in a perpetually weird state depending on class. Stealth on most thief builds is fine cuz they have a decent amount of access, but not much ability to stack.

 

What? Stacking stealth to basicly infinite durations is easy even without shadow arts on thief. It was since game release. Simply just for the reasons stated above (not contributing to the match while sitting in stealth) noone does it.

 

> Shadow arts could use more attention on how it increases stealth durations and has a trait or two that still over-rewards stacking. Shadow Meld probably should not remove revealed. Binding Shadow should have a reveal attached to casting.

 

The main point to shadow arts is to increase stealth durations. Go try being unpredictable as a DE with 1 second of stealth on dodge... All the rest the traitline does is just a nice plus. The main reason the traitline exists is what you want gone. SA elongating stealth is perfectly fine.

Also pretty much the only thing Shadow Meld does is removing revealed. Without it it's not even worthy of being a support skill, let alone an elite. There are insane amounts of revealed around, a spec that is abolsutely dependent on stealth needs some counterplay to permareveal. SM is perfectly fine.

Binding Shadow revealing you would entirely defeat its purpose. It's a DE skill for prepping a burst, and burst on DE strictly requires an opener from stealth. You don't give warrior a burst prepping skill that takes away adrenaline either. Make the animation visible on the target regardless of the caster being in stealth or not, and leave the rest alone.

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I cant believe stealth is singled out in gw2 of all games lol right now every class is the epitome of cheese with atleast a couple builds each. Game is about out cheesing ur opponent, do that and ur fine lol. Because of the ridiculous state of the game every class has the same playstyle cheese rotation strategy being imobilizes, stuns etc so player cant move or use skills than followed by a burst that downs the player in one burst due to the damage power creep, rinse repeat, stealth play is no worse, speaks volumes for the games state.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > > > > > Imagine crying about stealth while the actual problem is powercreep

> > > > >

> > > > > Imagine two problems existing at the same time

> > > >

> > > > Imagine one of them not beeing a problem until the other emerged

> > >

> > > Immagine if stealth was not a problem , why the company tried unsuccefully to create 3 sec cast time Stealth Disruptor traps > Stealth Detection Balloons > HoT Warriors aoe utilities stealth detection > throw paint ball stealth detection

> > > (2014)

> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcPZyINzcXY....

> > >

> >

> > The mistake wasn't that stealth existed, the mistake was sending 20 guys to do what 2 or even 1 would do. Though now they gave thief portal so they messed up balance there.

> >

> > Though it does go back to what I was saying, "the only problem with stealth in this game is that stacking of it needs to be brought under control."

>

> Giving more tools in theifs , like the portal/new traps , its fine .

> Give them even more , like Blade and Soul .

 

Been waiting for someone to bring up blade and soul for a while now thankfully someone has a good idea of how balanced stealth in a game should be. imo blade and soul stealth was always the best of the examples ive seen talked about so far with ESO being a close second.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

> >

> > **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**

>

> 'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'

>

>

>

LOL

I remember seeing this dude in pvp

One Evade man!

 

I laughed so hard the whole time.

 

 

[kraai.7265]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Eso u can restealth and aoe's take u outa stealth but going into stealth and being in stealth is a auto cleanse. Also way easier and longer stealth :)

 

No it's not, if you are affected by a condition, each tick will reveal you, you can go back into stealth but it's useless, it doesn't cleanse, on the contrary condi damage will reveal you again and again, any sort of damage will actually, to me it's the best way to implement it in a mmo ever

 

Also you can't stack stealth why you lie about a game you clearly don't even know..? each time you cast stealth you spend mana, and stealth is not infinite nor usable by everyone, only nightblades can, and it's a low duration skill, only way to do some sort of "perma invi" is to build your nightblade into full magicka, and spam it over and over again but one hit and you are in trouble

 

You might be confused with regular stealth, which every class can do, and it's crouching, like in skyrim, it spends stamina for each second, and if you get close to an enemy you become visible, you can't get close enough to burst someone

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"kraai.7265" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Eso u can restealth and aoe's take u outa stealth but going into stealth and being in stealth is a auto cleanse. Also way easier and longer stealth :)

>

> No it's not, if you are affected by a condition, each tick will reveal you, you can go back into stealth but it's useless, it doesn't cleanse, on the contrary condi damage will reveal you again and again, any sort of damage will actually, to me it's the best way to implement it in a mmo ever

 

I think he is considering the aspect of your eso meets gw2 in other words in gw2 when a thief gains stealth with shadow arts and the right traits they clense conditions meaning the idea of having conditional ticks pull some one out of stealth just wouldnt work

 

But you are looking from the eso perspective where its not as easy to cleanse afflictions on you especially against some builds as there is no universal poison dot for example there can be various dots on you that all deal poison damage while in gw2 poison is just a universal dot. As gw2 has a rarity of effects (which cant be cleansed) that deal dot style damage. For example Guardian GS5.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

> > >

> > > **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**

> >

> > 'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'

> >

> >

> >

> LOL

> I remember seeing this dude in pvp

> One Evade man!

>

> I laughed so hard the whole time.

>

>

 

from 5:05 to 6:05 . 1 minute

he dodged 40 times xd

 

[Curennos.9307]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > Something to control the stealth-stacking builds would be nice + reveal options w/opportunity cost where needed.

> >

>

> Why would you need that? Maintaining stealth needs continous investment, and it means you're basicly doing nothing for your team as you cannot contest/capture points nor are you fighting, you're just sitting in stealth. Also reveal opportunities are already there. Almost every class can fit a reveal into it's skillbar, 90% of them are multipurpose skills prepping a burst.

>

> > Feels like stealth is in a perpetually weird state depending on class. Stealth on most thief builds is fine cuz they have a decent amount of access, but not much ability to stack.

>

> What? Stacking stealth to basicly infinite durations is easy even without shadow arts on thief. It was since game release. Simply just for the reasons stated above (not contributing to the match while sitting in stealth) noone does it.

>

> > Shadow arts could use more attention on how it increases stealth durations and has a trait or two that still over-rewards stacking. Shadow Meld probably should not remove revealed. Binding Shadow should have a reveal attached to casting.

>

> The main point to shadow arts is to increase stealth durations. Go try being unpredictable as a DE with 1 second of stealth on dodge... All the rest the traitline does is just a nice plus. The main reason the traitline exists is what you want gone. SA elongating stealth is perfectly fine.

> Also pretty much the only thing Shadow Meld does is removing revealed. Without it it's not even worthy of being a support skill, let alone an elite. There are insane amounts of revealed around, a spec that is abolsutely dependent on stealth needs some counterplay to permareveal. SM is perfectly fine.

> Binding Shadow revealing you would entirely defeat its purpose. It's a DE skill for prepping a burst, and burst on DE strictly requires an opener from stealth. You don't give warrior a burst prepping skill that takes away adrenaline either. Make the animation visible on the target regardless of the caster being in stealth or not, and leave the rest alone.

>

>

 

No, shadow arts increases stealth duration. That's nowhere near 'the main point' - what the traits do doesn't somehow justify any sort of classification. There's one auto-acquire trait in there that adds 1 sec on to stealth. That's it - and the duration increase isn't needed in the slightest except where something has been overnerfed (sniper's cover).

 

The 'perpetually weird state' I mention includes how most meta setups don't have all that much stealth for higher ranks - compared to the stealth stacking DEs that plague lower ranks. I would rather thief lose its wildly varying effectiveness and cheese depending on stealth traits and gain a few more healthy builds to pick from.

 

That's a fair suggestion for Binding Shadow. Idc how exactly it gets changed as long as the end result is the same. They could also stand to decrease the cooldown a little, imo.

 

Shadow Meld can gain other buffs when it loses the ability to remove revealed, or have its CD lengthen if it removes revealed, etcetc. Personally, I'd like a little heal, some protection when I come out of stealth, maybe a smol boonrip on my next attack.

[ugrakarma.9416]

add to the list,

 

Neverwinter.

 

https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Stealth

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"kraai.7265" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Eso u can restealth and aoe's take u outa stealth but going into stealth and being in stealth is a auto cleanse. Also way easier and longer stealth :)

> >

> > No it's not, if you are affected by a condition, each tick will reveal you, you can go back into stealth but it's useless, it doesn't cleanse, on the contrary condi damage will reveal you again and again, any sort of damage will actually, to me it's the best way to implement it in a mmo ever

>

> I think he is considering the aspect of your eso meets gw2 in other words in gw2 when a thief gains stealth with shadow arts and the right traits they clense conditions meaning the idea of having conditional ticks pull some one out of stealth just wouldnt work

>

> But you are looking from the eso perspective where its not as easy to cleanse afflictions on you especially against some builds as there is no universal poison dot for example there can be various dots on you that all deal poison damage while in gw2 poison is just a universal dot. As gw2 has a rarity of effects (which cant be cleansed) that deal dot style damage. For example Guardian GS5.

 

Not to mention eso version of hidden killer is baked into the cloak already giving crits within 3 seconds after.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > > > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.

> > > >

> > > > **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**

> > >

> > > 'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > LOL

> > I remember seeing this dude in pvp

> > One Evade man!

> >

> > I laughed so hard the whole time.

> >

> >

>

> from 5:05 to 6:05 . 1 minute

> he dodged 40 times xd

>

 

to be fair d/d 3 is not seamless when used back to back, especially at least with charr it has a horrid after cast which make it feel clunky and leaves room for being stunned

That said the warrior was bunker af and likely lacked the damage to kill him as he even managed to catch him a few times with some hits and cc.

 

He would have not lasted so long if the warrior was not a bunker build.

 

Still its funny to watched but this would frustrate me if i was the person getting flipped over like that.

I might try this build just for giggles to see how effective it is lol

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"kraai.7265" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Eso u can restealth and aoe's take u outa stealth but going into stealth and being in stealth is a auto cleanse. Also way easier and longer stealth :)

> > >

> > > No it's not, if you are affected by a condition, each tick will reveal you, you can go back into stealth but it's useless, it doesn't cleanse, on the contrary condi damage will reveal you again and again, any sort of damage will actually, to me it's the best way to implement it in a mmo ever

> >

> > I think he is considering the aspect of your eso meets gw2 in other words in gw2 when a thief gains stealth with shadow arts and the right traits they clense conditions meaning the idea of having conditional ticks pull some one out of stealth just wouldnt work

> >

> > But you are looking from the eso perspective where its not as easy to cleanse afflictions on you especially against some builds as there is no universal poison dot for example there can be various dots on you that all deal poison damage while in gw2 poison is just a universal dot. As gw2 has a rarity of effects (which cant be cleansed) that deal dot style damage. For example Guardian GS5.

>

> Not to mention eso version of hidden killer is baked into the cloak already giving crits within 3 seconds after.

 

Eso sneak is kind of weird though but it easily goes both ways. Most skills that would do damage or alot of them cant be pre cast from sneak and will auto reveal you on cast While there are a few exceptions to this there are not too many overall though dots in gw2 are too generous and too fast for this version of stealth to work in gw2.

 

Thief would need major reworks.

 

For now i think the best thing anet could do would be trade risk with reward. shadow arts providing more stealth with the penalty of massively slowing the persons movement speed in the process. So if you want to be sneaking for long periods you are slower meaning its harder to do damage with no tell should anyone opt to just move away.

 

I would prefer a more balanced permanet solution but no thief main will ever agree with any version of lesser stealth without arguing for compensation on something else that also annoys non thief mains that they also wont agree with so i mean.... oof its in a tough spot.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Okay, but if you nerf stealth buff thief damage mitigation.

I won't play a disadvantaged class, so if you give them more options to evade, block, or outright ignore attacks I'm totally fine with giving up current stealth access.

 

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > Are you implying all those shadow steps, teleports and other skills that change their placement on the fly aren't enough to escape and run away?

 

Yes.

Most skills autotrack placement changes, so ranged classes would be advantaged versus them. Also what if thieves actually want to fight you instead of run away?

 

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"hellsqueen.3045" said:

> > But long durations of stealth have also been important for PvE.

>

> For what exactly?

> Other than for skipping content that Anet designed to be played?

>

> I can't think of any meaningful application in PvE.

 

Stealth is part of the damage mitigation of thief in that it helps cooldowns reset and allows for repositioning on a class that cannot afford to take much of any kind of damage. It's active armor. Its like guardian's passive armor, except it needs more skill to use right.

 

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> The skill curve is irrelevant, the issue is that a player should not be able be in stealth for a significant % of time, it's poor gameplay. If they have to be on stealth for significant periods of time then fix the root cause.

 

Said it before, will say it again.

Stealth time goes down, armor, active mitigation, or some other version of sustain goes up.

Pick your poison. I have no problem with stealth being nerfed. Just be sure that is indeed what you want and you are willing to let them mitigate as much as mesmer, warrior, guardian, ranger, elementalist, and holo/scrapper in exchange. Whether that means extreme cd reductions on shadowstep or what have you. If you're just frustrated at thief in general, shuffling up how they play won't get rid of that. They will generally be annoying. That is their archetype.

 

The one thing that I won't agree to, however, is "but shortbow/but shadowstep" as an excuse to take all the defense away from that class, because some of its defense consists of you not being able to see it and that's kind of annoying.

If you want less stealth, so be it. Prepare for more pistol whip, vault spam, dagger/dagger or tankier thieves, though; because we share the lowest hp pool in the game with Ele and Guardian and both of them have mitigation out the kitten.

 

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> no thief main will ever agree with any version of lesser stealth without arguing for compensation on something else that also annoys non thief mains that they also wont agree with so i mean.... oof its in a tough spot.

 

You're damn right. Asking for stealth nerfs with no compensation is the destruction of the class. Most of its mitigation is built into that. Put something else in its place or no deal.