Wayne.6253 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Actually we have 3 classes (thief, guardian and revenant) that are completely inside the meta, in specially thief that is the strongest. Why after a balance patch these 3 classes will be more and more inside the meta on the contrary of others that will dye as the Fireweaver and Mirage ? I understand that the damage and healing of all classes has been nerfed, but it doesn't mean "balance" because you touched very badly some important skills and mechanics that can give a sense to a specific profession. I think that in pvp you should be able to play with the same potential all the classes, and I don't like to hear "you can play it but you cant have the same power of others" because no one loves to plays somenthing that can't help the party, in particular in ranked matches. So I agree with the general nerf of power/damage/healing of all profession, but I think you should review the nerfing of some traits and utility, or if you want nerf, do it with sense and complete the nerfing also to the profession like thief and firebrand. I hope that the balance will be rework soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Dunno, d/p was kinda limited for a while. It was only good since people decided to take assassins signet. I doubt it could kill anything apart from other glass builds with out it, so with the aa (again)/smoke screen/shadowshot ini cost nerf, the daredevil version wont even be taking pi now, not even on s/p will. But yes, it still retains its mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLS.4095 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Defend weaver and mirage, we can see the type of player you are ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ". which is a little contradicting, thief is one of the strongest in the meta because mirage and weaver are meta thief wasn't the strongest when scourge+fb was meta, and it won't be strong in the meta if nec+guard+war will define it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > > > > > No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ". > > which is a little contradicting, thief is one of the strongest in the meta because mirage and weaver are meta > thief wasn't the strongest when scourge+fb was meta, and it won't be strong in the meta if nec+guard+war will define it Not saying he is right or wrong just trying to clarify the thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 fair enough i think the buff to choking gas is stupid (unblockable daze on hit) - with the remove of lots of stab this will be quite spammy. Not sure if 4 to 6 ini is gonna make difference because you only need 1 to hit now Other than that thief got lots of nerfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne.6253 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Wayne.6253" said: > Actually we have 3 classes (thief, guardian and revenant) that are completely inside the meta, in specially thief that is the strongest. > Why after a balance patch these 3 classes will be more and more inside the meta on the contrary of others that will dye as the Fireweaver and Mirage ? > I understand that the damage and healing of all classes has been nerfed, but it doesn't mean "balance" because you touched very badly some important skills and mechanics that can give a sense to a specific profession. > I think that in pvp you should be able to play with the same potential all the classes, and I don't like to hear "you can play it but you cant have the same power of others" because no one loves to plays somenthing that can't help the party, in particular in ranked matches. > So I agree with the general nerf of power/damage/healing of all profession, but I think you should review the nerfing of some traits and utility, or if you want nerf, do it with sense and complete the nerfing also to the profession like thief and firebrand. > > I hope that the balance will be rework soon. > First off, Fire weaver will still ok in 1 vs 1 but not anymore fighting vs 2-3 ppl and stay alive and yep, the 1 dodge profession will be anihilate. Thief !!! I don't remember well 2-3 days ago, i've been in twitch between 17:00 and 18:00, 8-9 GW2 PVP streamers, 4 thief's main....maybe a part of the answer and why @net favors the thief..... at least for the moment. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Wayne.6253" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;) Which makes no sense. Meta in gw2 is defined on all classes performance, including thief. And how can you say thief was one of the strongest in meta? In NA rev/fb/weav is the highest populated one in tourneys compared to thief for example? What stats do you have thief performs better than other classes in ranked? You have no facts or stats to back you up. The only region tournament wise that has higher representation of thief is EUl Source https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1143819#Comment_1143819 Even holo has a higher number in NA compared to thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"Wayne.6253" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > > > > > i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;) > > Which makes no sense. > > Meta in gw2 is defined on all classes performance, including thief. > > And how can you say thief was one of the strongest in meta? In NA rev/fb/weav is the highest populated one in tourneys compared to thief for example? What stats do you have thief performs better than other classes in ranked? You have no facts or stats to back you up. > > The only region tournament wise that has higher representation of thief is EUl > > Source https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1143819#Comment_1143819 > > Even holo has a higher number in NA compared to thief. > The facts he has are the same facts most the community go off of which are all the thief complaint threads spammed in the forums which he's now bandwagoning as most seem to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 the 4 thiefs per match agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"shinta.8906" said: > the 4 thiefs per match agree > **+1** Chaos Is Coming -Thief Profession will assure the death of the game- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Well i agree with u , this is not good. but that's not the point of this patch. this patch is not about balancing classes, but balancing the game, which brings down overall stats. so what's good will still be good, just the game overall will have a game play shift..which will define new meta.. btw that mAT population thread is pointless, which included 2 October and 2 November stats, that's before meta swifts, of course Holo is going to be higher number then thief, even EU hardly had thief for october and november, it's after december they shifted to double thieves for two months. and i'm not sure why NA can play double mirage, if thief counters mesmer so much like everybody says, this is the part where i don't understsand. but i doubt NA seriously considered best team comp, just playing what's the cheesiest and stack them and just find who's online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Meta probably guardian and thieves. Maybe a warrior and rev. Do not see a place for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Wayne.6253" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;) No such mmo exists. Meta shifts. Tiers will always be a thing because people figure out different things afte erg big changes. If your class can be B+, be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Wayne.6253" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta? > > > > > > > > > > i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;) > > No such mmo exists. > > Meta shifts. > > Tiers will always be a thing because people figure out different things afte erg big changes. > > If your class can be B+, be grateful. > > nah, every class should have S tier build. if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that. example since Im lazy, nobody played core necro. it got some small cooldown reductions here and there, boom its good A-S tier build. If something is too strong slight nerf, something too weak. slight buff. sooner or later you make things balanced-ish. Druid was dead in pvp, did they try anything? even reduce cooldowns by 10%, upp the damage by small ammounts? increase CC by trivial numbers? increase aoe from skills? up the mobility? anything? I do hope they will chisel out the balance sculpture after the hammer dropped, and not leave it as it was. where over half the specs are druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I don't care whats meta as long as its not teef nah jk nah i'm not idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > If your class can be B+, be grateful. > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > nah, every class should have S tier build. > if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that. No to both of these. There will always be low and high tier classes. No class should be so low that it is mechanically -impossible- to create a build that cannot matchup a high tier class, however. The largest you should let a class imbalance get is 60/40 in a particular classes favor. Exceptionally skilled low tiers should be able to beat average or inexperienced mid and high tiers, and at least put up a fight against players in their skill bracket. For those matchups of equal skill where your class is disadvantaged, that's what counterpicks/secondary characters of a different class that covers your weaknesses are for. Against people that are fresh off of metabattle pressing buttons, however, your weird necro build should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > If your class can be B+, be grateful. > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > nah, every class should have S tier build. > > if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that. > > No to both of these. > > There will always be low and high tier classes. > No class should be so low that it is mechanically -impossible- to create a build that cannot matchup a high tier class, however. > > The largest you should let a class imbalance get is 60/40 in a particular classes favor. Exceptionally skilled low tiers should be able to beat average or inexperienced mid and high tiers, and at least put up a fight against players in their skill bracket. For those matchups of equal skill where your class is disadvantaged, that's what counterpicks/secondary characters of a different class that covers your weaknesses are for. Against people that are fresh off of metabattle pressing buttons, however, your weird necro build should work. has the bar dropped so low that every class is not even expected to be really good? I feel really old now, I feel like old man looking and young peoples lowered standars. im fucking 20 and you make me feel old. FeelsWeirdMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > has the bar dropped so low that every class is not even expected to be really good? We cant go by any arbitrary definition of 'really good' because it is always relative. The meta changes and classes become good or bad based on whichever class is the best/easiest/strongest/most versatile. The only way we can approach the definition above is if every class can fight every other class to some extent without being a complete shutdown due to forces beyond the player's control. (mechanical disparity). Even if we get there, people won't agree that we have, so the only thing we should be focusing on is "If this class/spec main complains about class/spec x, is there a kit or playstyle the class/spec main can play that lets him challenge class/spec x and have some chance of winning?" If any matchup is a wash we haven't balanced. You and I want the same thing, but everyone on these forums has a different idea of what every class being good is, and most of them involve having overwhelming mechanical advantage in the current meta for the class they play. S tiers by definition only arise because they are by nature better mechanically to play in more situations. > I feel really old now, I feel like old man looking and young peoples lowered standars. > im kitten 20 and you make me feel old. > FeelsWeirdMan Not low, just realistic~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 It's karma. Remember when Thief was garbage for like 10 years and everyone kept saying "buff thief"? Well that's happening now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > It's karma. > > Remember when Thief was garbage for like 10 years and everyone kept saying "buff thief"? > > Well that's happening now. No I do not remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widmo.3186 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 That's okay, let all those boiz switch from their current classes to teef. Watching all those newcomers struggling with teef and pretending they know what they're doing is always funny and entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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