Infiltrator Arrow

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Kondor.2904" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > > It was a broken skill since launch.

> >

> > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing?

>

> Half of the other specs in the game:

> 

>

 

Not everyone in this game argues in bad faith favoring their profession only lol but I might as well with the crab mentality around here.

[Anomaly.7612]

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change.

 

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle.

 

Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this shit. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done.

 

All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

[pinkmatter.1243]

Thief is still meta even with the nerfs.

 

Have you played spvp recently?

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What? You want more? lol

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return.

> > > >

> > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down.

> > >

> > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good..

> > > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone

> >

> > In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder.

>

> And thief has to go berserker to have similar damage to what it had using marauders before February....These days a marauder amulet backstab hits maybe 3k tops lol.

 

so what you are saying is that thief takes amulet with HP, rune with HP, 3 utility traitlines and 3 survival utilities. and only takes 15% of enemys hp with basic attack from stealth ? what madness is this?

[Kachros.4751]

Okay im gonna say t his as a thief player myself. Shortbow 2 was busted and did more damage than nades did before this patch. Shortbow 4 is an unblockable CC with poison cleave. Shorttbow 5 was spammable 3 times in a row to kite away faster than any class can keep up. This was a good nerf and if you think otherwise then youre either clueless when it comes to thief or just cant play without the overtuned factors of the class.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

This makes me glad I really never ran sb in the many years I ran teef builds/specs. I feel for those impacted however.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"foste.3098" said:

> Now we just need to wait 8 more months for them to actually balance the class around not having as much mobility and we will get to what the thief was advertised as to begin with: a glassy and slippery duelist.

 

If they actually wanted that, D/D would be good.

 

Nope, it's designed as a permastealther that's intended to do nothing but run away or hide.

 

Daredevil wouldn't be designed to only offer power in running away and DE would have been designed to play aggressively and not camp stealth if that were the real intention.

[shadowmaster.5370]

I mean...ANET..if some one even knows how to read there.....THIEF was already the crapiest class in the game, specially on PvP: its ONLY strenght was mobility:

 

>1v1 potencial? = 0

> Tanking potential? = 0

> 1 shoting potential..? = like 0.5 if u want to be a glass canon that...wait....cant run anywhere.

 

ALL thief NERFS where based on: u can stealth, cross the map kill.....now what is it exactly a thief is supposed to do...im telling you:

Every thief is now compeled to take a cancer 0 skill condi mirage or hybrid chrono and faceroll to oneshoot the enemy team at once:

 

Thiefs are so OP they will be a oneshot mesmer to kill every one.

 

thanks anet, your reanimation orb really made it up for us.

 

 

[Yasai.3549]

Hear me out guys :

 

Revert Ini cost of Infiltrator's Arrow.

BUT

Make it no longer usable to scale up cliff-faces.

 

:^)

[Swagger.1459]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW?

 

Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW?

>

> Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it!

 

Oh that be ok cuz just be a placeholder till it gets redesigned 10 month later and counting lol. Honestly from a business standpoint I find it hard to believe ncsoft could be anything but displeased with anets performance. Its kinda ncsoft fault tho as if they wanted gw2 to have any kinda future they really shoulda laid off the whole company and either closed anet or completely re-staffed it cuz these dev seriously have absolutely no clue or direction on how to grow this game, my guys is the devs that did are long gone at this point. I hate to say anyone should lose their jobs but strictly from business perspective these devs at anet are not producing what it takes, not even close.

[Highlie.7641]

And this is why the player base thinks your clueless dev team. a thousand monkey's banging on a typewriter would come up with better balance then your interns.

[Anomaly.7612]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW?

> >

> > Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it!

>

> Oh that be ok cuz just be a placeholder till it gets redesigned 10 month later and counting lol. Honestly from a business standpoint I find it hard to believe ncsoft could be anything but displeased with anets performance. Its kinda ncsoft fault tho as if they wanted gw2 to have any kinda future they really shoulda laid off the whole company and either closed anet or completely re-staffed it cuz these dev seriously have absolutely no clue or direction on how to grow this game, my guys is the devs that did are long gone at this point. I hate to say anyone should lose their jobs but strictly from business perspective these devs at anet are not producing what it takes, not even close.

 

Ehhh, NCSoft doesn't care as long as new gemstore chairs, mount skins, outfits and gliders are being sold.

 

The old crew had their chance to make money off of PvP like they tried to do in vanilla/HoT but they shot themselves in the foot when they pulled out of ESL prematurely instead of just balancing PvP back then and figuring out how to make it interesting to watch.

 

(:::::::::::::::________LOADING__________________)

[Tip: boxing matches with marshmallows aren't interesting to watch or play]

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> And this is why the player base thinks your clueless dev team. a thousand monkey's banging on a typewriter would come up with better balance then your interns.

 

I mean i personally think they done pretty good with this patch. My only issue is healwar is still near unkillable and burn dh wasnt touched, otherwise was good.

[Bazsi.2734]

8/10 patch. Could have been 10/10 but you stopped just 2 inititive too short. I'm not even mad at this point, this is legit funny.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > Okay im gonna say t his as a thief player myself. Shortbow 2 was busted and did more damage than nades did before this patch. Shortbow 4 is an unblockable CC with poison cleave. Shorttbow 5 was spammable 3 times in a row to kite away faster than any class can keep up. This was a good nerf and if you think otherwise then youre either clueless when it comes to thief or just cant play without the overtuned factors of the class.

> >

> > This reads like that white government official that posted "As a gay black man, President Obama did nothing to help me compared to President Trump" or whatever he said. If you wanna pretend to be a thief player then go ahead, however... at least say feasible stuff.

>

> Im saying this after playing it in a high level for the past 2 months. Thief has the best mobility in the game, huge stealth durations, big damage, CC, unblckable CC, unblockable damage, blind, aoe 5k bursts, damage reduction, condi remove, 2 stunbreaks in 1 skill, teleports. Are you saying this is isnt feasible? The fact you can get 2.7k range from shortbow 5 spam to escape is fine? I wouldve nerfed thief shortbow harder than this but EVERY high tier player within the development discord agreed that it was too much and im fairly sure that this opinion is correct. You could try to chase but oh wait shortbow 5, kitten i cant catch up.. then another.. and another then stealth. But oh wait hes back where he started again. Shortbow is not remotely balanced on thief and im fairly certain i know more after playing it vs every matchup at a good level.

> Even Pain (one of the best theives in gw2) says this and agrees like you cant argue with that lol. Just accept the fact thief was busted and now isnt as busted and stop trying to argue about an actual good nerf lol.

 

Yeah no, I gotta give it to him, you *definitely* didnt play thief. I mean, "Shortbow 2 did more damage than grenades"? "big damage" on a class whose hardest hitting burst skill hits for less than 5k, when other classes hit harder with regular skills? "CC" when the class has like, 1 1second daze? "Unblockable damage" when D/P thief *literally has no unblockable damage*? Edit: Other fun ones are "AoE 5k burst" (shortbow 2 does less damage than backstab, which already hardly ever reaches 5k. Realistically it tends to do around 3k) and "condi remove" (Thief is actually one of the worst classes at dealing with conditions, why do you think they have to run *2* condi clear utilities).

 

The *only* part you got right is that shortbow 5 is ridiculously strong, though you completely missed the part where its also the only reason thief is at all playable, and the reason why thief is incapable of winning fair fights.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > > > > It was a broken skill since launch.

> > > >

> > > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing?

> > >

> > > Umm give nothing back? It's a well deserved nerf with no gain like how things with other classes are nerfed with no gain.

> > >

> > > They could have cut the range in half but but instead they went the the route of making it a elite weapon skill with the cost. Good second idea.

> >

> > Or you could ignore what I wrote. Just another thief QQer mindlessly celebrating lol but what could I expect from a guy with a reaper avatar. Players escaping you are basically breaking the game, they're supposed to stand in my melee/AoE kitten!! /s

> >

> > Here it is so you can read it again (and by again, I mean the first time):

> >

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > >

> > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing?

>

> Awe poor raging thief main who uses the most broken speedy character in a pvp mode where speed means more then skill.

>

> Lmao. Least with my homemade (like all my builds since guild wars 1) reaper mm build got me to top 100 in both 2v2 seasons.

>

> I'm not a copy paste joke like some.. lol

 

2v2, the game mode which, on NA, has like 300 ppl playing it? Must be a proud achievement.

 

Homebrew build bragging rights are, as every person who's ever researched the term 'meta', about as empty as it gets.

 

You're making a good case of how Anet listens to nonsense outcries, though.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> (Thief is actually one of the worst classes at dealing with conditions, why do you think they have to run *2* condi clear utilities).

 

I must have missed every dodge removing chilled\cripple\immobilize, a cleanse whenever you evade an attack -with 3 dodges it tends to happen fairly often-, healing skills with either dodge or stealth + cleanse, shadowstep cleansing 3 condis (+1 if traited), signet of agility cleansing 3 condis, and after all that sit just sit in perma stealth to wait for the condis to expire if you managed to get hit by anything even after all of that

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > (Thief is actually one of the worst classes at dealing with conditions, why do you think they have to run *2* condi clear utilities).

>

> I must have missed every dodge removing chilled\cripple\immobilize, a cleanse whenever you evade an attack -with 3 dodges it tends to happen fairly often-, healing skills with either dodge or stealth + cleanse, shadowstep cleansing 3 condis (+1 if traited), signet of agility cleansing 3 condis

 

Yknow that "exhausted" debuff that prevents endurance regeneration? Its kind of a huge deal, and the reason thieves would rather avoid using Dash to remove Cripple or chill. The "cleanse whenever you evade" trait isnt used, because its not good. Even against condi builds. You need burst cleanse, not 1 cleanse every couple of seconds. Plus a smart enemy can just wait and let you bleed out. HiS is the only one that cleanses most damaging conditions, and it is slow. And yes, Shadowstep and Signet of Agility are good at it. But thats 2 utility skills, one of which is picked pretty much entirely for that, and the other one is still super-valuable. How many classes can you think of that *have* to run 2 utility skills (and a heal skill sometimes) just to deal with condis? Probably fewer than classes that can run *0* and be fine.

[Cynz.9437]

I think the change is great. Now we (thieves) have better excuse not to help out teammates, not to decap, not to +1 due to lack of ini. Just heartseaker through the map, grab popcorn and watch our teammates burn in the condi dumpster fire. Time to lay back and get carried :D I am sure rest of the pvp community will enjoy it as much :D

 

> @"Kondor.2904" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > > It was a broken skill since launch.

> >

> > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing?

>

> Half of the other specs in the game:

> 

>

Tbh they have done it to thief plenty of times already. Core is hardly playable and got hit really hard this patch as well (for no reason) but nobody will notice since all you can mainly see in pvp is DD and DE. My best assumptions is that all those changes have been (and will be) done to force us to buy next xpac.

[DoomNexus.5324]

Literally nobody arguing in favor of the initiative increase has ever played thief and it shows. Yea yea keep those lists with dodge, stealth, escape, teleports, etc coming.. This IS true, thief has a ton of utility for avoiding fights but they don't have shit to actually WIN a fight and there's the difference.. Also why does this bullshit with 2,7k distance by spaming IA keep popping up in this thread? Even with a cost of 6 initiative you can just do 2 shots aka 1.8k distance, then you have to wait to get 3 more initiative to do the third but keep in mind folks that the thief then is completely helpless... 0 initiative left, the only thing left to do is auto attacks... and yea, deadeye has a third dodge but literally nothing else... entering stealth either costs firing a utility skill (Blinding Powder) or in case of D/P takes a 9 initiative combo... good luck entering stealth when you just ran out of initiative because you had to "spam those 2,7k distance".. With those 8 initiative you can't even do 2 in quick succession since thief only has a max of 15.. keep in mind that this is after the additional 3 initiative given by Trickery.. Another thing Anet keeps fucking up.. Trickery is a must have trait since every just because Anet can't balance the skills without making them more expensive. Soon IA will cost 13 initiative so you can't even cast it without Trickery, you heard it here first folks.

 

Initiative is the single most important resource to the entire class.. what makes it even more crucial is that all weapons share 100% the same initiative pool. Imagine Rev sharing the energy 100% aka not resetting to 50% on legend swaps.. That's also the reason thieves always take shortbow with them.. Not only because it's an extremely powerful tool but because it's also pretty much the only option that makes sense... if I play d/p, s/d, ... then which other secondary set would complement the playstyle even a little bit? I'll tell you: Nothing. Why would I take d/p as a secondary for s/d for example? It's a completely different playstyle that requires completely different traits, amulets,... The only example I can think of that ditched shortbow was rifle DE for more versatile stealth access but that's gone as well..

 

I just hope you all have fun losing your matches with thieves in your team from now on since they can't do shit anymore. I'm out again, didn't take long for Anet to fuck up their game again after I came back from my break.. weeeell Anet is still pretty consistent with fucking up their balance, at least something we can rely on.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Hear me out guys :

>

> Revert Ini cost of Infiltrator's Arrow.

> BUT

> Make it no longer usable to scale up cliff-faces.

>

> :^)

 

I honestly think they should have left IA cost the same initiative as it did before this patch, but the range should be reduced to 600 if used while in combat. Not sure if that's even possible with the current code, but I said what I said.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > Hear me out guys :

> >

> > Revert Ini cost of Infiltrator's Arrow.

> > BUT

> > Make it no longer usable to scale up cliff-faces.

> >

> > :^)

>

> I honestly think they should have left IA cost the same initiative as it did before this patch, but the range should be reduced to 600 if used while in combat. Not sure if that's even possible with the current code, but I said what I said.

 

How about not nerf core builds that are basically not played because of changes like this? They could have addressed DD, they could have addressed DE but no, of all things they heavily nerfed core build that had barely any mobility on first place. You know some people don't have xpac, some just enjoy playing core and now they get punished for existence of DD? Same goes for engis this patch as well.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said:

> Literally nobody arguing in favor of the initiative increase has ever played thief and it shows. Yea yea keep those lists with dodge, stealth, escape, teleports, etc coming.. This IS true, thief has a ton of utility for avoiding fights but they don't have kitten to actually WIN a fight and there's the difference.. Also why does this kitten with 2,7k distance by spaming IA keep popping up in this thread? Even with a cost of 6 initiative you can just do 2 shots aka 1.8k distance, then you have to wait to get 3 more initiative to do the third but keep in mind folks that the thief then is completely helpless... 0 initiative left, the only thing left to do is auto attacks... and yea, deadeye has a third dodge but literally nothing else... entering stealth either costs firing a utility skill (Blinding Powder) or in case of D/P takes a 9 initiative combo... good luck entering stealth when you just ran out of initiative because you had to "spam those 2,7k distance".. With those 8 initiative you can't even do 2 in quick succession since thief only has a max of 15.. keep in mind that this is after the additional 3 initiative given by Trickery.. Another thing Anet keeps kitten up.. Trickery is a must have trait since every just because Anet can't balance the skills without making them more expensive. Soon IA will cost 13 initiative so you can't even cast it without Trickery, you heard it here first folks.

>

> Initiative is the single most important resource to the entire class.. what makes it even more crucial is that all weapons share 100% the same initiative pool. Imagine Rev sharing the energy 100% aka not resetting to 50% on legend swaps.. That's also the reason thieves always take shortbow with them.. Not only because it's an extremely powerful tool but because it's also pretty much the only option that makes sense... if I play d/p, s/d, ... then which other secondary set would complement the playstyle even a little bit? I'll tell you: Nothing. Why would I take d/p as a secondary for s/d for example? It's a completely different playstyle that requires completely different traits, amulets,... The only example I can think of that ditched shortbow was rifle DE for more versatile stealth access but that's gone as well..

>

> I just hope you all have fun losing your matches with thieves in your team from now on since they can't do kitten anymore. I'm out again, didn't take long for Anet to kitten up their game again after I came back from my break.. weeeell Anet is still pretty consistent with kitten up their balance, at least something we can rely on.

 

Nah Im actually totally in favour of it on paper, and I played Thief until last year. Or perhaps more accurately, Im in favour of it as a first step. Lowering thieves mobility is good, but in exchange thief should also see changes to their fighting capabilities. Make the class actually able to 1v1 people who arent afk. Give it some real survivability. Stuff like that.

[Brokensunday.4098]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"DoomNexus.5324" said:

> > Literally nobody arguing in favor of the initiative increase has ever played thief and it shows. Yea yea keep those lists with dodge, stealth, escape, teleports, etc coming.. This IS true, thief has a ton of utility for avoiding fights but they don't have kitten to actually WIN a fight and there's the difference.. Also why does this kitten with 2,7k distance by spaming IA keep popping up in this thread? Even with a cost of 6 initiative you can just do 2 shots aka 1.8k distance, then you have to wait to get 3 more initiative to do the third but keep in mind folks that the thief then is completely helpless... 0 initiative left, the only thing left to do is auto attacks... and yea, deadeye has a third dodge but literally nothing else... entering stealth either costs firing a utility skill (Blinding Powder) or in case of D/P takes a 9 initiative combo... good luck entering stealth when you just ran out of initiative because you had to "spam those 2,7k distance".. With those 8 initiative you can't even do 2 in quick succession since thief only has a max of 15.. keep in mind that this is after the additional 3 initiative given by Trickery.. Another thing Anet keeps kitten up.. Trickery is a must have trait since every just because Anet can't balance the skills without making them more expensive. Soon IA will cost 13 initiative so you can't even cast it without Trickery, you heard it here first folks.

> >

> > Initiative is the single most important resource to the entire class.. what makes it even more crucial is that all weapons share 100% the same initiative pool. Imagine Rev sharing the energy 100% aka not resetting to 50% on legend swaps.. That's also the reason thieves always take shortbow with them.. Not only because it's an extremely powerful tool but because it's also pretty much the only option that makes sense... if I play d/p, s/d, ... then which other secondary set would complement the playstyle even a little bit? I'll tell you: Nothing. Why would I take d/p as a secondary for s/d for example? It's a completely different playstyle that requires completely different traits, amulets,... The only example I can think of that ditched shortbow was rifle DE for more versatile stealth access but that's gone as well..

> >

> > I just hope you all have fun losing your matches with thieves in your team from now on since they can't do kitten anymore. I'm out again, didn't take long for Anet to kitten up their game again after I came back from my break.. weeeell Anet is still pretty consistent with kitten up their balance, at least something we can rely on.

>

> Nah Im actually totally in favour of it on paper, and I played Thief until last year. Or perhaps more accurately, Im in favour of it as a first step. Lowering thieves mobility is good, but in exchange thief should also see changes to their fighting capabilities. Make the class actually able to 1v1 people who arent afk. Give it some real survivability. Stuff like that.

 

Thief can 1v1 fairly decent and like most clases if you build to it, what thief really lacks is team fight pressence.