Vancho.8750 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 It shouldn't have block it was fine with counter attack, why did they add block to ranger, they made Ranger GS combination of Warrior gs + shield with a bonus cc, why would you take the best parts of another class and cram it into one part of other class. Sword/dagger was the defensive option and GS was the offensive but they powercrept gs with block and made the other option pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > It shouldn't have block it was fine with counter attack, why did they add block to ranger, they made Ranger GS combination of Warrior gs + shield with a bonus cc, why would you take the best parts of another class and cram it into one part of other class. Sword/dagger was the defensive option and GS was the offensive but they powercrept gs with block and made the other option pointless. I believe it was exploitable by just jumping during the animation to block anyways. I personally think anets doing a good job in removing exploitable things for workable ones, even if ranger mains complain about them being weaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > It shouldn't have block it was fine with counter attack, why did they add block to ranger, they made Ranger GS combination of Warrior gs + shield with a bonus cc, why would you take the best parts of another class and cram it into one part of other class. Sword/dagger was the defensive option and GS was the offensive but they powercrept gs with block and made the other option pointless. > > I believe it was exploitable by just jumping during the animation to block anyways. I personally think anets doing a good job in removing exploitable things for workable ones, even if ranger mains complain about them being weaker... Make it a dodge it will fit better or make it like fullcounter, why not give necromancer multiple dodges and blocks then and warriors 5 to 6 easy to apply conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerer.2167 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > side noder ranger gs burst? keep in mind this is the only busted spec as of right now for ranger. > > > > i guess this is why they just choose to sit camp at tranquility in the mota, so much burst from gs that it's just not worth even attemping it.............. right? > > Brah the build your talking about is absolute garbage against anything but condition rev side node and a condition thief plus at the same time. How is that busted meanwhile it’s possible to land 6-7k Gs burst consistently on actually overall strong core side node builds... but those builds dont get played in top level play ... it's simple, if you go burst with GS you lose survivability so much so that you will just be a liability against good players - against bads yea sure , you can get away with it and you'll get the illusion that it's "good". it's that simple. for ranger's case, you lose that survivability in traits / utilities - not the weapon itself , because naturally by design the weapon's coefficients are already lowered because ranger has a pet. this is why GS is good at the moment with the current side node build and not good as a burst weapon. it has condi/power survival and good node potential. but if you try to go dmg enough to be able to burst with GS , you're a liability. this isn't rocket science it's simple logic that understood between most top players. but this is the difference between forum players and players who actually are good that hardly get on the forums to complain about stuff, the spectrums are entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > > side noder ranger gs burst? keep in mind this is the only busted spec as of right now for ranger. > > > > > > i guess this is why they just choose to sit camp at tranquility in the mota, so much burst from gs that it's just not worth even attemping it.............. right? > > > > Brah the build your talking about is absolute garbage against anything but condition rev side node and a condition thief plus at the same time. How is that busted meanwhile it’s possible to land 6-7k Gs burst consistently on actually overall strong core side node builds... > > but those builds dont get played in top level play ... it's simple, if you go burst with GS you lose survivability so much so that you will just be a liability against good players - against bads yea sure , you can get away with it and you'll get the illusion that it's "good". it's that simple. for ranger's case, you lose that survivability in traits / utilities - not the weapon itself , because naturally by design the weapon's coefficients are already lowered because ranger has a pet. > > this is why GS is good at the moment with the current side node build and not good as a burst weapon. it has condi/power survival and good node potential. but if you try to go dmg enough to be able to burst with GS , you're a liability. this isn't rocket science it's simple logic that understood between most top players. > > but this is the difference between forum players and players who actually are good that hardly get on the forums to complain about stuff, the spectrums are entirely different. Idk what ur talking about against anything except condi rev and condi thief the soulbeast bunker build is a liability, the first person who played even clearly explained that. It’s simple if your not in an at and side noding against a condi rev don’t play that build it’s that bad, it will make a plat3+ player, me btw for past 4 seasons I’ve played, look like a gold player. You can play a bunker core build with valk + marks or sometimes nature magic with menders all the time in ranked and daily ats and out perform the other build 90% of the time has no difference if the opponent is good, because the other build is admittedly not against anything besides condi rev with a condition thief to plus it and even then it’s not that good as pmuch everyone knows from watching obindo play in the mota... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistsim.2748 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Tazer.2157" said: > Burst: check > Mobility: check > Stun:check > Block:check. > Why can this weapon do so many things at once? because it took them 8 years to get it right. you do realize that right? the recent GS nerfs were perfect, it's a good balanced weapon. leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistsim.2748 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > > > side noder ranger gs burst? keep in mind this is the only busted spec as of right now for ranger. > > > > > > > > i guess this is why they just choose to sit camp at tranquility in the mota, so much burst from gs that it's just not worth even attemping it.............. right? > > > > > > Brah the build your talking about is absolute garbage against anything but condition rev side node and a condition thief plus at the same time. How is that busted meanwhile it’s possible to land 6-7k Gs burst consistently on actually overall strong core side node builds... > > > > but those builds dont get played in top level play ... it's simple, if you go burst with GS you lose survivability so much so that you will just be a liability against good players - against bads yea sure , you can get away with it and you'll get the illusion that it's "good". it's that simple. for ranger's case, you lose that survivability in traits / utilities - not the weapon itself , because naturally by design the weapon's coefficients are already lowered because ranger has a pet. > > > > this is why GS is good at the moment with the current side node build and not good as a burst weapon. it has condi/power survival and good node potential. but if you try to go dmg enough to be able to burst with GS , you're a liability. this isn't rocket science it's simple logic that understood between most top players. > > > > but this is the difference between forum players and players who actually are good that hardly get on the forums to complain about stuff, the spectrums are entirely different. > > Idk what ur talking about against anything except condi rev and condi thief the soulbeast bunker build is a liability, the first person who played even clearly explained that. It’s simple if your not in an at and side noding against a condi rev don’t play that build it’s that bad, it will make a plat3+ player, me btw for past 4 seasons I’ve played, look like a gold player. You can play a bunker core build with valk + marks or sometimes nature magic with menders all the time in ranked and daily ats and out perform the other build 90% of the time has no difference if the opponent is good, because the other build is admittedly not against anything besides condi rev with a condition thief to plus it and even then it’s not that good as pmuch everyone knows from watching obindo play in the mota... this. the bunker Soulbeast is trash in 90% of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > @"Tazer.2157" said: > > Burst: check > > Mobility: check > > Stun:check > > Block:check. > > Why can this weapon do so many things at once? > > because it took them 8 years to get it right. you do realize that right? > > the recent GS nerfs were perfect, it's a good balanced weapon. leave it alone. I don't know dude. I mean they can spam maul, whoop, hilt bash which allows them to spam maul even more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 doesnt make sense from lore perspective that a ranged class is more proficient in melee than a melee class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > doesnt make sense from lore perspective that a ranged class is more proficient in melee than a melee class It only doesn't makes sense because you're giving them some arbitrary labels based on your own preconceptions due to other games. What makes ranger a ranger class? And not "its in the name" doesn't count since that's not what ranger means. What makes warrior a melee class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazer.2157 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Tazer.2157" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Tazer.2157" said: > > > > > @"aymnad.9023" said: > > > > > Lack of sustained damage : check > > > > > Long cd : check > > > > > Huge warnings : check > > > > > The burst has both a huge animation and a massive sound warning making it one of the easiest skill to avoid. > > > > > Gs mobility is one of those things people have no clue what they are talking about. The cd is huge. If ranger uses it to go away, he concedes the node. If he doesn’t then he used it to avoid a skill and has 0 mobility left on gs. > > > > > The knockback has a huge animation + a big warning because it can only be triggered after the first block. So a double warning sign. > > > > > The only skill that is hard to avoid is hilt bash. Since it has >90% chance to be followed by a huge bear attack, you know that is the only time you need to trigger a defensive utility. > > > > > Conclusion ? > > > > > L2P issue : check > > > > > > > > > > Edit : it also misses on targets just running in the opposite direction > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does not matter. No other weapon in the game has this much utility. Couple this with the recently changed protect me. A skill that breaks stuns, grants protection and a barrier of 3,973 on top of it. It becomes ridiculously difficult to take down a ranger. The ranger GS and the protect me skills transforms a DPS ranger into a tank with DPS. Not a good thing! The game should separate DPS and sustain builds not merge them into one. > > > > > > Say that to necro will ya? Or engineer? or revenant? or guardian with FB? Why won't you say that to the rest of the game?? Biased much? The only class which can't tank and DPS is **elementalist** since launch, the rest get a free pass on sustain...especially necro > > > > These classes do not have an escape that the ranger gets with gs swoop. Swoop, block, barrier, then with longbow or smokescale it can even go into stealth. That is insane. > > Don't **derail** my post thank you very much.... > > >The game should separate DPS and sustain builds not merge them into one > > This is what my post referring to , don't change the subject, you are talking about DPS+sustain and I have listed almost all specs that are included in that category. You're talking about that now...no longbow/gs+smokescale build Stealth and escape mechanisms are a form of sustain and it is especially strong with a class that utilizes a long bow or a ranged weapon. Other classes can be taken down if targeted. The ranger is much harder. Let us compare the ranger gs with the ranger sword. The sword is perfect at one thing only which is escape and kiting. It can’t stun, it cannot burst, it cannot block Why is there such a large disparity between these two weapons? The gs is a sword with mobility, a shield with block along with the stun and the burst. Why is the gs made into a shield? It makes no sense. If you want to complain about other classes having both dps and sustain you can make a thread about that. My focus is on the ranger because that is the class I’m most familiar with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazer.2157 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Tinkerer.2167" said: > > > > > side noder ranger gs burst? keep in mind this is the only busted spec as of right now for ranger. > > > > > > > > > > i guess this is why they just choose to sit camp at tranquility in the mota, so much burst from gs that it's just not worth even attemping it.............. right? > > > > > > > > Brah the build your talking about is absolute garbage against anything but condition rev side node and a condition thief plus at the same time. How is that busted meanwhile it’s possible to land 6-7k Gs burst consistently on actually overall strong core side node builds... > > > > > > but those builds dont get played in top level play ... it's simple, if you go burst with GS you lose survivability so much so that you will just be a liability against good players - against bads yea sure , you can get away with it and you'll get the illusion that it's "good". it's that simple. for ranger's case, you lose that survivability in traits / utilities - not the weapon itself , because naturally by design the weapon's coefficients are already lowered because ranger has a pet. > > > > > > this is why GS is good at the moment with the current side node build and not good as a burst weapon. it has condi/power survival and good node potential. but if you try to go dmg enough to be able to burst with GS , you're a liability. this isn't rocket science it's simple logic that understood between most top players. > > > > > > but this is the difference between forum players and players who actually are good that hardly get on the forums to complain about stuff, the spectrums are entirely different. > > > > Idk what ur talking about against anything except condi rev and condi thief the soulbeast bunker build is a liability, the first person who played even clearly explained that. It’s simple if your not in an at and side noding against a condi rev don’t play that build it’s that bad, it will make a plat3+ player, me btw for past 4 seasons I’ve played, look like a gold player. You can play a bunker core build with valk + marks or sometimes nature magic with menders all the time in ranked and daily ats and out perform the other build 90% of the time has no difference if the opponent is good, because the other build is admittedly not against anything besides condi rev with a condition thief to plus it and even then it’s not that good as pmuch everyone knows from watching obindo play in the mota... > > this. the bunker Soulbeast is trash in 90% of circumstances. It is not about comparing the viability of the build. It is about improving the class as a whole. With the gs having so much utility, it is most often picked as a weapon of choice. There is too much reward and no risk when picking the gs. This invalidates the other ranger weapons. I always prefer some sort of trade off when picking weapons. There should be some thought about playstyle that goes into a weapon choice. The gs with its high utility is a blind pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:> > doesnt make sense from lore perspective that a ranged class is more proficient in melee than a melee class> > It only doesn't makes sense because you're giving them some arbitrary labels based on your own preconceptions due to other games. > > What makes ranger a ranger class? And not "its in the name" doesn't count since that's not what ranger means. > What makes warrior a melee class?Guild Wars says so, so go read some lores> Rangers are unique in their ability to succeed with the help of, or even in spite of, their environment. Nature rituals allow them to manipulate the environment to hinder their enemies, or borrow the very power of creation to heal and aid their allies. They favor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs. They are the only profession with the ability to charm animals, which then accompany them on their travels and assist them in battle, gaining experience and levels over time. Rangers are also blessed with survival skills that help keep them alive by causing regeneration of health.> — The Guild Wars Manuscripts> https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/> Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.>Warriors rely on stout hearts, brute strength, and melee weapons to subdue their enemies and protect their allies. They generally disdain long-range warfare, preferring instead to charge directly into the fray swinging their weapon of choice. They can take a beating unlike anyone else. Warriors are equally comfortable wielding axe, hammer, or sword, though many choose to master one weapon over all others. Many Warrior skills require adrenaline, which builds up during combat to enable those skills, and usually results in major damage. Defensive tactics help the Warrior to avoid damage and protect allies, but Strength is the Warrior’s biggest asset, allowing this hero to do more damage with every attack.> — The Guild Wars Manuscripts> The mightiest of mighty, the bravest of the brave, the Warrior is the master of melee combat and heavy armor.> — in-game description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 You guys are talking ridiculous kitten, old block was a reason that many players played axe, because it was eaayinterrupterable by mesmer with clones, warrior with gs3, other rangers with bets, weavers, thiefs, guards was just ultra lol and revs without any punishment. New block has the same cooldown as warrior shield has, but warrior can swap their weapons every 5 seconds. Maul does got hardly nerfed and you can barely do dmg on core with it, soulbeast is an other thing, but soulbeast is either not surviving or dmg dealing. Hilt bash has 25 sec cd/20 when traited and is not spamable, easy to miss/dodge. They even removed the evade on the super slow auto attack and gave it endurence, but most of the time you will not do the third auto attack because it takes a ton of time and you get a pretty easy target, I use it only if I have quickness. Swoop and the new block are only. Real good abilities at ranger Greatsword, but since they increased the block from 25/20 to 30/24 seconds, are ranger is actually forced to go axe/dagger as second weapons and not longbow. If you see a ranger with greatsword longbow, it's not hard to take him down, if it can survive a chase through the map, a 1vs2 or even some 1vs1, than it's clearly your fault and a l2p issue. Ranger greatsword was insane good weapon before big patch, it was a super good weapon after big patch, but at the current state its an actual okay weapon, it has it strength and it weaknesses. The balance team shaved it slowly but they made a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Avatar.3568" said: > You guys are talking ridiculous kitten, old block was a reason that many players played axe, because it was eaayinterrupterable by mesmer with clones, warrior with gs3, other rangers with bets, weavers, thiefs, guards was just ultra lol and revs without any punishment. > > New block has the same cooldown as warrior shield has, but warrior can swap their weapons every 5 seconds. yes, you realize the new block is also an evade and a knock back right? greatsword is still busted remove evade from kick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > You guys are talking ridiculous kitten, old block was a reason that many players played axe, because it was eaayinterrupterable by mesmer with clones, warrior with gs3, other rangers with bets, weavers, thiefs, guards was just ultra lol and revs without any punishment. > > > > New block has the same cooldown as warrior shield has, but warrior can swap their weapons every 5 seconds. > > yes, you realize the new block is also an evade and a knock back right? > greatsword is still busted > remove evade from kick than we have 1 evade on a complete kit, and 2 evades on the only viable weaopons for ranger, uh yeah i realy want that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > > You guys are talking ridiculous kitten, old block was a reason that many players played axe, because it was eaayinterrupterable by mesmer with clones, warrior with gs3, other rangers with bets, weavers, thiefs, guards was just ultra lol and revs without any punishment. > > > > > > New block has the same cooldown as warrior shield has, but warrior can swap their weapons every 5 seconds. > > > > yes, you realize the new block is also an evade and a knock back right? > > greatsword is still busted > > remove evade from kick > > than we have 1 evade on a complete kit, and 2 evades on the only viable weaopons for ranger, uh yeah i realy want that All of the ranger weapons are viable, GS is just powercrept like i said it takes all the good aspects of warrior GS and adds shield to it so you get the whole kit of a warrior with one fucking weapon.People are using GS on condi builds FFS. If you look at warrior that has little bit more variation in weapons,but not by allot, you can see that it has truly unviable weapons like rifle, hammer(these 2 had a mechanical rework and are still bad) and some might say mace and of course the off hand options that bring nothing to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumusikoo.1360 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 People love to complain about everything, Ranger isn't even a top class and people still complain about it. Impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Apparently doubling the cooldowns on skills 2-4, removing the auto attack evade and crippling throw, and removing the damage on 2/5 of our skills weren't enough. Let's triple the cooldowns, make maul deal no damage, and remove both pets from soulbeast? I think swoop could have its evade removed and remove the kick from the block so it's just a block too. Then, top it off by having the third chain of the auto attack remove 50 endurance in exchange for a 10% damage boost on the ranger's pet's next cc skill to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > Apparently doubling the cooldowns on skills 2-4, removing the auto attack evade and crippling throw, and removing the damage on 2/5 of our skills weren't enough. > > Let's triple the cooldowns, make maul deal no damage, and remove both pets from soulbeast? I think swoop could have its evade removed and remove the kick from the block so it's just a block too. Then, top it off by having the third chain of the auto attack remove 50 endurance in exchange for a 10% damage boost on the ranger's pet's next cc skill to compensate. so warrior greatsword ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeqkOneStylez.8047 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 It would help if alot of the other qeapons didn't feel terrible and clunky to play, before and moreso after some of these balance changes. The problem is whenever they make changes to the game, they are never consistent. Warrior offhand sword and any other similar block with a counter on any class should have also had this treatment. PS ranger mainhand sword auto attack 1 swing animation is TERRIBLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssisis.3971 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said: > It would help if alot of the other qeapons didn't feel terrible and clunky to play, before and moreso after some of these balance changes. > > The problem is whenever they make changes to the game, they are never consistent. > > Warrior offhand sword and any other similar block with a counter on any class should have also had this treatment. > > PS > > ranger mainhand sword is TERRIBLE Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sznurek.8791 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > doesnt make sense from lore perspective that a ranged class is more proficient in melee than a melee class I mean, ranger was a ranged class and then everyone complained that longbow is too strong even when the class wasn't meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Ranger great sword has been nerf enough IMO it doesn't need to be touch on again. They do need to address and fix the double knock back already..... Been Months and still the same bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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