Should dps meters get banned?

[Henry.5713]

I'd much rather get kicked from groups based on actual underperformances of mine than having it based on something as silly as my amount of AP (which happened in the good old dungeon days). But each their own, I guess. People will judge and kick you no matter the tools avaible to them and others will continue to prefer safe runs to not waste their time even without Arc.

[Atomos.7593]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> I'd much rather get kicked from groups based on actual underperformances of mine than having it based on something as silly as my amount of AP (which happened in the good old dungeon days). But each their own, I guess. People will judge and kick you no matter the tools avaible to them and others will continue to prefer safe runs to not waste their time even without Arc.

 

Wow didn't know people kicked others from groups because of AP. :astonished:

 

Like you said, seems like such a silly thing to base performance on.

[Friday.7864]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> I'd much rather get kicked from groups based on actual underperformances of mine than having it based on something as silly as my amount of AP (which happened in the good old dungeon days). But each their own, I guess. People will judge and kick you no matter the tools avaible to them and others will continue to prefer safe runs to not waste their time even without Arc.

 

Hahah. Opener wants to throw us from the frying pan into the fire.

[borgs.6103]

Until they add a _**Battle Summary**_ after every pull on raid bosses be it a success or a wipe, like the one in PvP when a match is over, it's a NO.

 

DPS meters actually made a lot of classes and builds welcome to groups, because it shows one's merits and contributions to everyone participating. If they didn't exist, I doubt the meta would evolve as such and it will be stuck on whatever the 1% of raid groups use. It actually gave creative freedom to experiment because we're not blindly estimating performance. The community would not be able to produce all those viable builds and combinations out there and instead the large majority would stick to the _tried and tested_ compositions.

 

Take for example, the **Reaper**. The first person who boldly brought their reaper into raids would warrant uncertainty and doubt among their peers. Without a DPS meter, whether they succeed in the raid encounter or not, that doubt and uncertainty would not go away. But if they see the numbers it brought, they would welcome that build again and eventually would spread to the community.

[Sir Alymer.3406]

Yes, but with this caveat: Anyone who pulls less than 10k DPS average while having a majority of their stats allocated into DPS stats (Power, Precision, Ferocity, Condition Damage, Expertise) in open world events is barred entry to all instanced content. Anyone with primary healing/support stats (Healing power, concentration, vitality, toughness) that don't give good heals or have good boon uptime are also banned from joining instanced content. You also need to take a Profession correspondence class and pass at least 5 out of 9 classes with an average of 90% along with a crash course into combat mechanics to join instanced content.

 

But also, no, they shouldn't be banned because I l ike being able to see a breakdown of my rotation and mechanics to understand where I went wrong.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

Third party meters that sniff info from the client to tell you the performance of other people should be banned.

 

An official meter that tell only your own info should be available within the client for everyone to use

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Konrad Curze.5130" said:

> Third party meters that sniff info from the client to tell you the performance of other people should be banned.

>

> An official meter that tell only your own info should be available within the client for everyone to use

 

But how do you know did good dps then you only know yours? The main reason all are shown is to compare and also for example if someone is doing nothing but auto or boon uptime if support heals or not or if you got enough. Basicly option should be squad wise. Dmg is not private info you already have data in game. Before meters the meta was even more rigid for it was based on classes and ap. Golem can only show if you fighted an mechanic neutral. The meter actually just gives data wich you could figured out on your own with math

[Deeyra.1476]

im sorry but if you cant kill a mob because someone is doing 1k dps while spamming 1 they dont deserve the loot while the rest are doing their best.

There are ways to see the dps without a meter but its just tedious.

An advice, how about you outdps all of them and then YOU can point out the dps hm?

[Sigmoid.7082]

I find it weird people think that if there was an in-game meter it wouldn't have a share feature. The game is literally broadcasting everything you're doing to everyone already.

 

Also that somehow the parties they are seemingly trying to hide their performance to get into won't require you to be opted into the share and everything would be just as it is now when it comes to group content.

 

/Shrug

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Main issue in instanced high end pve is ppl dont want to learn they like their open world build as open world dont tell your actuall performance

[DesiRe.1348]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

 

> Who said you should spend as little time as possible in the instances? Skip what can be skipped? Exploit every boss and every mechanic? If you do not want to play that content, do not play it! The developers made all of these wonderful mechanics to be played, not exploited by some cheap speedrunners.

>

>

 

Who said I have to carry people through encounters and towards the rewards when they deal absolutely no damage, and I do all the work? Who said I have to play the game the way _you_ want to? Who are you to tell me how to play the game? Maybe skipping and fast clearing is fun _for me_ ? Ever thought about that? Maybe not being able to check dps leads to more and more leechers, and there are so many already? I don't see how it's fair if 8 people in a squad play well and do what they're supposed to, while there are 2 longbow dragonhunters doing less dps than my healer druid, yet they too get the same rewards in the same time.

Do you know the time difference between running a raid clear or even t4 dailies with proper dps players and players who only deal half or a third of that?

Raid clear: W1-W4 in about 2 hours with a decent group. takes probably 8 hours or more with low dps players.

T4: <30 minutes with a good group, easily 1.5 hours with bad dps players.

It's time I should not be forced to invest, if I don't have to. Plus, it's very frustrating.

 

I'm just gonna say this: If I'm a squad commander doing my raid, and our dps sucks or we wipe because we are too slow (Gorseval e.g.), without a dps meter I will start kicking people randomly. First the classes/specs that usually perform worse, second the people using weird weapons, third AP or LI/KP and fourth: just random dps people. How is it a good thing if I have to randomly kick people because there is no way for me to tell who is failing their job? How is it fair if you get kicked from a squad on a necro even though you were top dps, but the commander can't know it, because no dps-meter? And don't @me with the "don't kick people then" bullshit, if you fail a boss time after time you have to change things up.

 

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I don't really care about this kind of thing, I just think any game that has a large part of its player base convinced it needs 3rd party tools to function properly, is an abject failure.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

rather ban the cheaters, not the watchers, oh lord.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Jellybean.3475" said:

> > > @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> > > I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

> > >

> > > I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

> > >

> > > Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

> > > Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This ^^

> > So, YES in thier current form :)

>

> Knowing your own DPS isn't as helpful as knowing your DPS in relation to others. As others have pointed out, this would only cause players to find less objective measures by which to ensure a minimum level of performance.

 

Didn't people use achievement points to try to sort out who did want to kick from different type of content? The higher AP the more experience (and the right gear) where the logic behind it. Like everything else it is a crude way to know if somebody will be good enough to do that content and people always find a way to kick other people for some reason.

 

In game we already can see in chat every damage we are doing, are taking and every heals both in and out, so why would a DPS meter be seen as a problem when people would then use that information to value other players performance? (They would demand a screen shot of logs or something else to compare in grop).

[Tayga.3192]

My friend and I are theorycrafters and we like testing builds like healer thief, signet core warrior etc and compare them to meta builds.

 

Also I play necro (reaper / scourge) in raids/fractals even though it's considered "not optimal", and I am usually in top 3 in terms of dps. This gives me the ability to actually play reaper in instanced content without feeling bad, because I know I am not being a burden to the team.

 

Lastly, proving how much a "utility" build performs can be hard as kitten. I play boonrip - cc chronomancer in WvW and I save logs after each "big" fight, meaning I can easily see how much boons I ripped + self alacrity uptime etc.

[Hyrai.8720]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> This is an issue of ppl spying on what other ppl do in groups. Or kick ppl for not playing the meta. Pleasw explain why you choosed an option

 

people dont get kicked for not playing meta.

people get kicked for leeching.

 

edit:

also, just because its called "dps meter" or "ArcDPS" doesnt mean the only thing it displays is dps...

its also great to monitor your healing, boon uptime and all kinds of others stuff that help you analyze your gameplay to improve.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> I don't really care about this kind of thing, I just think any game that has a large part of its player base convinced it needs 3rd party tools to function properly, is an abject failure.

 

Large part of the player base?

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> My friend and I are theorycrafters and we like testing builds like healer thief, signet core warrior etc and compare them to meta builds.

>

> Also I play necro (reaper / scourge) in raids/fractals even though it's considered "not optimal", and I am usually in top 3 in terms of dps. This gives me the ability to actually play reaper in instanced content without feeling bad, because I know I am not being a burden to the team.

>

> Lastly, proving how much a "utility" build performs can be hard as kitten. I play boonrip - cc chronomancer in WvW and I save logs after each "big" fight, meaning I can easily see how much boons I ripped + self alacrity uptime etc.

 

I was just commenting in another thread on this same sort of thing. I use arcdps to play the way I want to play. I don't want to be inconsiderate toward the reasonable expectations of others. It's important that I know if I am pulling my weight when I run group content. Arcdps gives me information I can use to ensure that isn't a problem as well as to improve as I play.

[Blude.6812]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> I don't really care about this kind of thing, I just think any game that has a large part of its player base convinced it needs 3rd party tools to function properly, is an abject failure.

 

Best comment I have read on this issue. It hits the heart of the matter.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> I don't really care about this kind of thing, I just think any game that has a large part of its player base convinced it needs 3rd party tools to function properly, is an abject failure.

Yes, the massive dps disparity between players is indeed a problem (very big one) caused by game design. A better designed game might not have had as much need to monitor dps values for players even in more demanding content.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

> You deserve getting kicked out of group if u arent providing anything to the group... no one want deadweight.

 

There is indeed content for which this is true. I don't need to have a DPS meter, though, to notice others aren't doing enough DPS or don't provide enough support. ;)

 

[otto.5684]

It is smart To remove measurement tools instead of fixing the actual issues. Ignorance is a bliss.

[LucianDK.8615]

Out with them, leads to nothing but toxicty.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Out with them, leads to nothing but toxicty.

 

And people wont be without them? "But its just another avenue and without it..." etc etc. If you go down that route so much more needs to be removed..and you know what? People would still be toxic.

[Rankomonaut.4708]

I don't use them, I even don't like them too much.

But I see their value - and as soon as Anet decides to monetize on such a feature, 3rd party meters'll be destroyed asap.