Should dps meters get banned?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

This is an issue of ppl spying on what other ppl do in groups. Or kick ppl for not playing the meta. Pleasw explain why you choosed an option

[kharmin.7683]

Rather than answer another poll, why not just use the forums search function and read the many other DPS related threads. Those might answer your question.

[Yggranya.5201]

If there wasn't any forced grouping, then none of this would matter. "You don't need to do them!" Yeah, i know. It's still true.

[Raknar.4735]

Should have asked if players that abuse 3rd party applications to harm others should be banned imo.

 

Edit: People like that_shaman mentioned in his tweet [https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/1299736372757114883](https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/1299736372757114883)

[Strider Pj.2193]

I like the term ‘spying’ on other people.

 

There is more ‘spying’ going on in the background on your PC/laptop/tablet/phone that you created this poll on than is going on in a DPS meter.

 

[aspirine.6852]

If others feel they need to use dps meters to feel good about themselves fine. I dont care about them at all.

[BadHealer.3608]

Yeah, it is really spying when I see that I did take 50% of a mob away with one hit and I see someone else hitting it for 30s seconds and only doing 5% damage and than complaining that my DPS is not high enough and I should get kicked out of the group.

[Halbarz.3854]

I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

 

I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

 

Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

 

 

[DesiRe.1348]

What people seem to forget these days is, that there have always been means to filter out "good" players from others. Before dps meters were a thing, people were looking at achievement points and only allowed players join with > XY AP, or hard class elitism like "no ranger/necro", which was the norm years ago when dungeons were a thing.

The toxicity doesn't stem from dps meters, it has its roots in the inherent difference in player skill and the expectations of different players. Always has, always will be, in every game, ever.

Getting rid of dps meters would not do any good, it would only lead to more injustice, since - let's be real here - people would get kicked for other reasons (not playing class xy, not playing weapon or elite spec xy, having too low AP, kill proofs would get more important...) and none of these other reasons are a better indicator for a players skill than their dps (that is ofc, if they play a dps role). People being mad for getting called out over their low dps and not wiling to improve themselves and instead rather blame the "toxic elitists" are the main reason why this topic is so big. I'd rather be called out for my low dps, than not be allowed in a group because I don't play one of the 2 meta dps specs. And don't @me with the bullying, a-holes are a-holes and will flame people for any other reason as well.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

Dps meters are fun.

I enjoy watching me and my friends get better over time with solid nunerics.

If you're worried about people being toxic with them, at least a dps test lets you get into a group. Whereas the current way people use to make sure their groups will clear is kill proof. Which doesn't even let you in

 

[Cyninja.2954]

I much rather have a numeric and unbiased damage meter tell me how players performed to base my decisions on, versus what we had in the past: assumptions based on what people expected a class "can" do.

 

The issue is not if content can be completed, what most players often assume. It's more about when players want to differentiate or optimize a group or squad, which will always happen, especially as content gets more challenging, on what basis should this happen. The question then becomes: what basis is most fair? The answer here is: hard data based on individual performance.

[Kitich.4580]

Let's start from a 'combat log' concept. It's a built in feature and it's common for all MMORPGs. It helps player to analyze fights after they are done and this is the only way to get answers to many questions: What killed me in this fight? Did I miss any boss mechanics? What was that continued damage? Why did I hit that mob less then usually? How could that warrior hit me for 20k damage? So after all the rush you can take a cup of coffee, read your logs and make some conclusions to better understand the game mechanics and improve your skill.

 

So DPS meters are just a small addon on top of combat log, helping us to visualize some data. It's not a tool for bullying - it's a tool for making yourself better. Yes, some people might act toxic or rude because of this.

 

However imagine person with a low dps as a bad-smelling person in a real world. It's uncomfortable for other people usually. Someone might ignore that, someone might say nothing, someone might make a friendly comment, but someone might be rude or offensive. Should the smelling person ask to ban all noses because of they discriminate those who don't like to take a shower? I hope no :-)

[maddoctor.2738]

So players will be kicked by nature of playing specific professions, without objective data to base the decision on? Why would anyone want DPS meters to be banned and ruin the game?

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

You deserve getting kicked out of group if u arent providing anything to the group... no one want deadweight. If arcdps gets removed we will even face greater problems believe me. One is not being able to play ur class and only playing the meta spec

Not everyone is toxic with arcdps... and if u are doing enough no one will bother u

In groups u have a role and dps role is checked by arcdps and support roles are visible boons and buffs on u. If u are bad at booning and healing ur group for like 10 times u will eventually get kicked

If u do support dps as a dps u will also get kicked.

Arcdps isnt nesseccary for playing but we use it to make sure everyone are doing enough

[zealex.9410]

Ppl kick others from their groups because their performance is bad, not because their build isnt meta. I have had classes or builds that are offmeta in my groups that were playing on a competitive lvl with the meta builds.

 

Banning dps metters will only make things worse as its going to turn calls based on data thats generated in real time into calls that are based on he/she say on random ow map chats and sites.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

DPS meters are fine.

In fact, they are a useful tool in measuring your own performance against that of your peers.

If you're interested in improving your performance, and that of the groups in which you play, DPS meters are invaluable.

There is nothing wrong with DPS meters.

[Jellybean.3475]

> @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

>

> I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

>

> Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

> Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

>

>

 

This ^^

So, YES in thier current form :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Jellybean.3475" said:

> > @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> > I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

> >

> > I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

> >

> > Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

> > Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

> >

> >

>

> This ^^

> So, YES in thier current form :)

 

Knowing your own DPS isn't as helpful as knowing your DPS in relation to others. As others have pointed out, this would only cause players to find less objective measures by which to ensure a minimum level of performance.

[Taril.8619]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> This is an issue of ppl spying on what other ppl do in groups.

 

If people are wanting to do some content that requires a certain amount of DPS, surely they should be allowed to make note of when people are not performing to a satisfactory level?

 

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Or kick ppl for not playing the meta.

 

Ironically, DPS meters help prevent this very thing.

 

Without DPS meters, people will kick for "Not playing meta". While with DPS meters, people can actually see if you perform to a satisfactory standard on a non-meta build.

 

DPS meters are the reason why people are allowed to play Necromancer. Before DPS meters were popular, people would not let Necro's into parties because they "Weren't meta" but once people realized that Reapers could actually put out decent numbers (For a rando PuG run) they're now accepted into parties.

 

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Pleasw explain why you choosed an option

 

DPS meters are a helpful tool. But they're just that, a tool. It's down to how a person uses it.

 

Many people don't care about other people's DPS, so long as it's not abysmal. They'd rather just focus on improving their own performance and DPS meters are the way to accurately track that.

 

Discrimination from DPS meters is a minor aspect of them as a whole (One that is not unique to them either, just look at LI/killproof complaint threads...). An aspect that their very existence can actually help combat.

[Halbarz.3854]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Jellybean.3475" said:

> > > @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> > > I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

> > >

> > > I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

> > >

> > > Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

> > > Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This ^^

> > So, YES in thier current form :)

>

> Knowing your own DPS isn't as helpful as knowing your DPS in relation to others. As others have pointed out, this would only cause players to find less objective measures by which to ensure a minimum level of performance.

 

What stops you from asking a friend for his DPS? This way you can still group up with people that want X dps, you can still prep for your raid/build.

 

It is a good middle ground that a lot of people both for and against the meter are not willing to go for. As they want everything or nothing ...

[Nodo.6907]

I use the DPS meter for myself and compare it against benchmarks. I don't really care what everyone else is doing although it does tell that story as well. It's not the meter that's the issue but just some people's mentality when it comes to pve content and/or their personal time.

[Naxos.2503]

I dont like results being thrown at me when I dont ask for them. You use it, you keep it to yourself unless I ask. I'm aware enough to know when I mess up and when I dont. I dont care for numbers. I care for actions. I like to review how I performed in Actions. If the person throwing said results at me doesn't produce said actions, then I dont care. Too many variables can influence numbers. Few can influence actions.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Jellybean.3475" said:

> > > > @"Halbarz.3854" said:

> > > > I voted YES, as I do not believe a DPS meter is required to play any of the current content in the game and in its current form are not healthy for the game.

> > > >

> > > > I will say this: I would not mind it if I could only see my own damage and if it was built by Anet. This would still give people the option to use it and optimize their build if they cannot figure it out on their own.

> > > >

> > > > Anet should with this: Restrict the usage of it, to reflect only your own output!

> > > > Also the Poll is missing an option, No but should be restricted to personal output only

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > This ^^

> > > So, YES in thier current form :)

> >

> > Knowing your own DPS isn't as helpful as knowing your DPS in relation to others. As others have pointed out, this would only cause players to find less objective measures by which to ensure a minimum level of performance.

>

> What stops you from asking a friend for his DPS? This way you can still group up with people that want X dps, you can still prep for your raid/build.

>

> It is a good middle ground that a lot of people both for and against the meter are not willing to go for. As they want everything or nothing ...

 

Well, first of all, it's really inconvenient to keep asking everyone their DPS and in practice I wouldn't do it. Second, as this thread demonstrates, people don't always respond well to that query! The fact remains that it is a more useful tool when one can objectively measure performance on this metric against other players in real time as opposed to comparing themselves to things like golem benchmarks or, worse, "Show me how many LI you have!"

 

I don't need to compromise with you. You aren't holding the keys and neither am I. But if it's a question of what I would prefer, my answer is: arcdps as it is. It works fine for me and I wouldn't like ANet getting their hands on it after what they did with that build template garbage. I advise other players who want to improve to use arcdps also and think it's unfortunate that people take sides on this as if it were a virtue to be against having useful information available to you.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Nodo.6907" said:

> I use the DPS meter for myself and compare it against benchmarks. I don't really care what everyone else is doing although it does tell that story as well. It's not the meter that's the issue but just some people's mentality when it comes to pve content and/or their personal time.

 

^Like this guy said.

[Raizel.1839]

Yes and also those who use them.