End of Dragons: New Races (Realistic Expectations) and Elite Specializations - [Merged]

[Katary.7096]

> @"Camniel.7238" said:

> It's called a narrowed down topic. I only wanted to focus on one concern and that concern was story continuity. All the rest can be figured out later but if a race muddles the story it needs to be thrown out or reimagined. It's sad that no one can actually talk about a presented topic and stay focused on that topic. I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm saying those associated questions are for a different discussion. But of course everyone else has to be rude and tell me off like I'm some kind of idiot when they simply are refusing to have a polite discussion on the question asked.

Introducing the Revenant as a new profession caused continuity issues for the story, so I would not say that that alone is enough for Arenanet to throw out a potenital new playable species.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Katary.7096" said:

> > @"Camniel.7238" said:

> > It's called a narrowed down topic. I only wanted to focus on one concern and that concern was story continuity. All the rest can be figured out later but if a race muddles the story it needs to be thrown out or reimagined. It's sad that no one can actually talk about a presented topic and stay focused on that topic. I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm saying those associated questions are for a different discussion. But of course everyone else has to be rude and tell me off like I'm some kind of idiot when they simply are refusing to have a polite discussion on the question asked.

> Introducing the Revenant as a new profession caused continuity issues for the story, so I would not say that that alone is enough for Arenanet to throw out a potenital new playable species.

 

It did not since your class have no affect on the story what so ever.

Later living story episodes have had engineer for example use their own flame thrower instead of the one you get in the story instance but it functions the same.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Camniel.7238" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > How can the idea be plausible if it does not take into account any of the associated issues?

> > Would this new race only be allowed to interact with instanced story content? Would every 'Exalted' look exactly the same? If they all look the same, how would they use Gem Store items like Outfits and Backpacks? How does ArenaNet recoup the income loss?

> > Are they barred from interacting with previous story content? Are they barred from using Mounts, as they float above everything?

> > Would ArenaNet want to promote discouraging players from purchasing prior content?

> > What about the Core Tyria content? Is that no longer included (at no cost) with a new expansion featuring this new race? If so, is this new expansion offered at a substantially lower cost? Does that reflect favorably on ArenaNet's bottom line?

> >

> > Just some things to consider.

>

> It's called a narrowed down topic. I only wanted to focus on one concern and that concern was story continuity. All the rest can be figured out later but if a race muddles the story it needs to be thrown out or reimagined. It's sad that no one can actually talk about a presented topic and stay focused on that topic. I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm saying those associated questions are for a different discussion. But of course everyone else has to be rude and tell me off like I'm some kind of idiot when they simply are refusing to have a polite discussion on the question asked.

 

It's because you are so blah say about what is likely the harder, and actual limiting part of the implementation you are trying to talk about.

 

Saying if it doesn't fit with the story they should reconsider it, but if it does they will figure the technical and financial stuff out is a backwards standpoint to have on the matter.

 

The discussion is out of place because it's backwards. If Anet said or indicate that its I'm scope from a financial and technical standpoint then great ,talk about the story details and how to make that work. But talking about the story before that is really a moot discussion because it doesn't feel constructive not will it lead anywhere when you're only looking at one 2d side of a 5d object.

 

It's why you're not getting the replies or discussion you want. Because as far as it's seen there is yet no reason for it. Topic title also didn't help.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Camniel.7238" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > How can the idea be plausible if it does not take into account any of the associated issues?

> > > Would this new race only be allowed to interact with instanced story content? Would every 'Exalted' look exactly the same? If they all look the same, how would they use Gem Store items like Outfits and Backpacks? How does ArenaNet recoup the income loss?

> > > Are they barred from interacting with previous story content? Are they barred from using Mounts, as they float above everything?

> > > Would ArenaNet want to promote discouraging players from purchasing prior content?

> > > What about the Core Tyria content? Is that no longer included (at no cost) with a new expansion featuring this new race? If so, is this new expansion offered at a substantially lower cost? Does that reflect favorably on ArenaNet's bottom line?

> > >

> > > Just some things to consider.

> >

> > It's called a narrowed down topic. I only wanted to focus on one concern and that concern was story continuity. All the rest can be figured out later but if a race muddles the story it needs to be thrown out or reimagined. It's sad that no one can actually talk about a presented topic and stay focused on that topic. I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm saying those associated questions are for a different discussion. But of course everyone else has to be rude and tell me off like I'm some kind of idiot when they simply are refusing to have a polite discussion on the question asked.

>

> It's because you are so blah say about what is likely the harder, and actual limiting part of the implementation you are trying to talk about.

>

> Saying if it doesn't fit with the story they should reconsider it, but if it does they will figure the technical and financial stuff out is a backwards standpoint to have on the matter.

>

> The discussion is out of place because it's backwards. If Anet said or indicate that its I'm scope from a financial and technical standpoint then great ,talk about the story details and how to make that work. But talking about the story before that is really a moot discussion because it doesn't feel constructive not will it lead anywhere when you're only looking at one 2d side of a 5d object.

>

> It's why you're not getting the replies or discussion you want. Because as far as it's seen there is yet no reason for it. Topic title also didn't help.

 

it is merged now so topic title is gone.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> The easiest solution is when they add a new race, to start their story from that point onward. So if a new race is added with the expansion, it will only take part in the expansion content and forget the previous living world seasons and of course the previous expansions. For example, a playable Tengu will start from the Dominion of Winds, then move on to Cantha. Same with Largos, they'd be in their water city and find a reason to move to Cantha. They will never fight Zhaitan, Mordremoth or Kralkatorik.

>

> And this isn't even a new idea, especially for Arenanet, it's how the story of Guild Wars Factions (and Nightfall) worked, players that started in Prophecies and players that started in Factions had a completely different story up to a certain point, interacting with different characters. Tyrians will have Dragon's Watch and be the champions of Aurene, Canthans will have a new story to become the champions of Kuunavang. In fact, disregarding a new race, I'd really love it if I could play a Canthan HUMAN (yes human), with a brand new Canthan exclusive storyline, that doesn't know anything about what's happening outside Cantha.

>

> No need for retcons, no need to mess the story.

That worked, because each campaign was a self-contained story. Basically, the story in each campaign was assuming it was being done by someone that started in said campaign, with characters from other campaigns being shoehorned-in at some later point.

This does not work if your expansion story is a continuation of the previous storyline. I.E. if the new storyline includes Aurene, then you being the Commander (and Aurene's Champion) or not becomes an important plot point.

 

Of course, Anet has been known to ignore a lot of character's background for the sake of the story in the past (the infamous Snining Blade oath being a good example of that), but that's not exactly what we should be encouraging.

 

[Super Hayes.6890]

You could add a race in EoD that has a totally different starting story from core and have them "take over" as commander at some point. Or you could have a starting zone for a new race in the core map area only open to players that purchase the expansion that allows that race to have a "commander" from the begining with new starting quests until the pact story arc which is the same for everyone anyway. A Tengu character, for example, could be a rebel to their culture and the personal story could revolve around them trying to get their kinsmen involved in the fight. They simply join the pact after being unsuccessful and the events of EoD could have them or any other races commander succeed in bringing the Tengu as a whole into the fight. There is always a way to bring a new race into play but it would be a lot of work. I, for one, would love to play a new race from begining to end but not everyone will be up for that. I would take my main through EoD first then go back and play as the new race.

[Ayrilana.1396]

What would a new playable race really offer that couldn't be accomplished without one being added?

[VocalThought.9835]

I see people complaining about Tengu's armor, story, and voice lines. I think all of these are easy to work out. Yes it's going to take time and money, but it's not impossible. I say, just do the darn thing. If they can create mounts in this game, they can create a race. No one is asking for perfection, but with game like this, they can always make improvements with each future game update.

[Linken.6345]

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> I see people complaining about Tengu's armor, story, and voice lines. I think all of these are easy to work out. Yes it's going to take time and money, but it's not impossible. I say, just do the darn thing. If they can create mounts in this game, they can create a race. No one is asking for perfection, but with game like this, they can always make improvements with each future game update.

 

Yes it will cost time and money, neither of those Anet will be able to earn back.

People against a new race would rather see time and money go to something else they might enjoy.

[Oxstar.7643]

I for one do not want Tengu. Birdmen feels super generic, especially if they like to live high up and favor archery, which seems to be the case if you go by the tribes we have seen. We have races that are much more interesting, but tbh, I would personally want Kodan to be playable. Their religion, magic, and culture is present through much of the game, but never properly explored, but it's heavily indicated they got a pretty long history.

 

As for elite speccs, I want something to finally be done about turrets. They should have been fixed properly rather than poorly replaced by gyros, and if not a turret elite specc then at least improve them in some way - give them ammunition, give us back controlled overdrives, or give them upgrade tiers by hitting them with the tool kit, TF2 style.

[ugrakarma.9416]

the real issue with new race is simply armor, they already have lots of trouble with charr cliping issues or adapting, imagine a tengu.. unless they just reeskin one of already existing races, but at end the players will notice the cheap job.

[lokh.2695]

Why hasn't this thread been merged with the thousands of other "Nu rAcE NaO!!!!!"-threads?

Race doesn't matter in this game, so spending resources on implementing a new reace seems like a waste. For more details use the forum's search function to find the bazillion new race threads that already exist.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> For new playble race, please refer to the existing _eleven_ billion threads about it.

> For alliances, if you think of it as open world PvE, there's a million threads about it as well. If it's just a story decission like which faction should guard Amnoon in the PoF stry, then sure, might happen.

> Juggernauts and Siege Turtles, Since the Warclaw wasn't actually well received with the WvW crowd I doubt they would introduce another mount to WvW and where else would you want to use siege? Sure there's drizzlewood, but no one will be there once the expansion hits.

 

you were a little off there, buddy

[Oxstar.7643]

Utterly incorrect statement. Races have their own storylines, their own racial abilities, and dialogue differences in the story. They very much matter.

[lokh.2695]

> @"Oxstar.7643" said:

> Utterly incorrect statement. Races have their own storylines, their own racial abilities, and dialogue differences in the story. They very much matter.

Storylines can be told without a given race being playble and the storyline of your character stops caring about what race you chose after the first five or so story steps. Racial abilities are deliberately sub-par, so that we don't have to live in a world where only certain races are welcome to high end gameplay due to better racials, dialogue differences are minor and come with classes and backgrounds as well, no nedd for a new race only to have varying dialogues. Race doesn't matter beside cosmetics, but you can read all of that in the other threads.

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> I think all of these are easy to work out.

 

This is half the problem with a lot of suggestions on here. People like to vastly underestimate how difficult things are.

 

Everything is easy or doable if you just dismiss or handwave all the hard bits and downsides about them.

 

[Konrad Curze.5130]

The only realistic expectation is no new races. Anything else is by definition unrealistic

[Ayrilana.1396]

Different dialogue when? Like 99.99% of the dialogue, outside of the first three personal story arcs, are exactly the same across all races.

 

I still ask:

 

**What would a new playable race really offer that couldn't be accomplished without one being added?**

[Sylvyn.4750]

I expect nothing, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised...

[Crono.4197]

Too many people here think that you need to have an objective or to accomplish something with a new race or it has no purpose and because they think that, it shouldn't be added. I don't like raids, strikes and I think legendaries were a mistake, but you don't see me complaining all day on the forum about it.

A new race is FUN. Games don't need reasons to add another race. What, WoW or other MMOs couldn't live without, draenei, blood elf, werewolf, panda and who knows what other race they added? No, they added it because they're part of the Warcraft lore and because people might like it. Same for Tengu, they've been here since Guild Wars 1 and they have their own lore and can have their own story.

 

Too many people in this game think that everything that's added to the game needs to have an accomplishment, reward or something. No, some people just want tengu (or any other race) because it's fun and adds to the game story/lore.

 

Combat tonics instead of a race? Same I can say about any game content. You want raids? Go fight random NPCs in world instead. You want PVP? Do old pvp and forget about new pvp modes.

 

Each person has its own idea of fun in a game. That doesn't mean you need to trash what someone else wants.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Different dialogue when? Like 99.99% of the dialogue, outside of the first three personal story arcs, are exactly the same across all races.

>

> I still ask:

>

> **What would a new playable race really offer that couldn't be accomplished without one being added?**

 

In the case of the Tengu it would add a new starter city with a new cultural immersion. Dominion of Winds could be added without playable Tengu but the PC would automatically be an outsider. Playing through the early story line before the Pact arc would be cool imo through the eyes and experiences of a Tengu. I know that doesn't sound like a lot of value for the work involved but it would be huge for some of us. The problem with a new playable race is that it adds massive value to some of us and little to none for others. I think the expansion needs a new playable race and something else that is just as big. This is unrealistic, however.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Different dialogue when? Like 99.99% of the dialogue, outside of the first three personal story arcs, are exactly the same across all races.

> >

> > I still ask:

> >

> > **What would a new playable race really offer that couldn't be accomplished without one being added?**

>

> In the case of the Tengu it would add a new starter city with a new cultural immersion. Dominion of Winds could be added without playable Tengu but the PC would automatically be an outsider. Playing through the early story line before the Pact arc would be cool imo through the eyes and experiences of a Tengu. I know that doesn't sound like a lot of value for the work involved but it would be huge for some of us. The problem with a new playable race is that it adds massive value to some of us and little to none for others. I think the expansion needs a new playable race and something else that is just as big. This is unrealistic, however.

 

None of what you've mentioned are dependent on there being a playable race though. There's nothing preventing Anet from dedicating a city and zone map for Tengu nor is there anything preventing them from dedicated some story arcs around the Tengu. The only thing a new race really adds is a means to RP as a Tengu.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

Maybe they won't give us a new playable race, but chances to play as Tengu/Largos/etc. instead? Something like Visions of the Past, where we play as Ryland, but in this case we would play as a Tengu/Largos/etc.

[Oxstar.7643]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Oxstar.7643" said:

> > Again. You are wrong. Different story, different skills, and different dialogue may not matter to YOU. But you are not the center of the universe. It matters to people who like story and aesthetics in their games. Many do. You are free to care about whatever you want. But blanket statements like that doesn't belong in matters of preferences and opinions.

>

> Combat tonic and switch class pof you got all 3 of your criterias right there

 

No. Story doesn't. The fact that every race had a lengthy story arc unique to that race was a core strength of the game when it launched. The stories had different tones and feelings, and you hopefully understand that atmosphere is important for immersion, and immersion is important for enjoying the story. I think people want a new race because 1. it would also mean a new area for them 2. Novelty and more story. 3. The wombo combo would be a new race AND class.

Of course, neither is likely to happen.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TheLadyOfTheRings.9148" said:

> Maybe they won't give us a new playable race, but chances to play as Tengu/Largos/etc. instead? Something like Visions of the Past, where we play as Ryland, but in this case we would play as a Tengu/Largos/etc.

 

That's a possibility.