Jilora.9524 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain. > > > > Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. > > > > > > I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. > > > > It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class. > > Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. > > 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. No hes engaging 5 players and they all chasing him and can't kill him not he wins and kills all 5. I see it all the time near smc then if he really wants to troll you get the perma keep tapper with 8 or 9 chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > Yeah stealth and group stealth can only be used outa combat but are perma, except group stealth lol but imagine thief in gw2 stealthing a whole zerg for 10 secs on a 5 min cd lol. Vanish is ur in combat stealth which is also perma if u dont take dots and is unusable if u currently have dots so u have to cleanse first and hope u can clear em all. Rogue has a teleport to target and can be have 2 charges if ur sub, most bind kick to it to interrupt immediately after tele lol. I will say damage should definitely reveal stealth'd target's in gw2. > > The point is, that stealth for thief in GW2 should be enough deffence. No reason, to make it most evasive and most mobile class as well. > But there is, u literally described what makes a rogue a rogue lol add in high burst hit and run and that is a rogue like archetype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain. > > > > > Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. > > > > > > > > I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. > > > > > > It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class. > > > Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. > > > > 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. > > No hes engaging 5 players and they all chasing him and can't kill him not he wins and kills all 5. I see it all the time near smc then if he really wants to troll you get the perma keep tapper with 8 or 9 chasing. Ahh ok that makes sense lol well I'd say the fact it can do so and avoid imminent death through disengagement is a legit strength of a class that isn't a great dueler or team fighter and that's ok. That said on ranger and warrior I've managed to at times run a fleeing thief down depending on their ini situation preceding their flee attempt lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > Yeah stealth and group stealth can only be used outa combat but are perma, except group stealth lol but imagine thief in gw2 stealthing a whole zerg for 10 secs on a 5 min cd lol. Vanish is ur in combat stealth which is also perma if u dont take dots and is unusable if u currently have dots so u have to cleanse first and hope u can clear em all. Rogue has a teleport to target and can be have 2 charges if ur sub, most bind kick to it to interrupt immediately after tele lol. I will say damage should definitely reveal stealth'd target's in gw2. > > The point is, that stealth for thief in GW2 should be enough deffence. No reason, to make it most evasive and most mobile class as well. > Yeah try playing thief with just stealth as your defense, see how that works out. Spoilers: youll die over and over and over without any chance of surviving. Stealth is bad in terms of defense. Very bad. Besides, every other class gets at least 2 forms of *better* defense. Blocks, invuln, long evade skills, etc. etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Bzz.1904" said: > The problem is not stealth or dodge or teleport, the problem is do it all at same time with very little investment, and that comparation with lifeforce is just laughble, but tbf marked debuff should counter only stealth and not mark everyone, or myb fix the real problem that is perma stealth and remove this lazy sheet "solution". It's not very little investment, it's what they packed their build for and good timing and pacing doesn't equal happening at the same time. Thief keeps getting priced out by Initiative and people still making outaded years old arguments that were hardly factual in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain. > > > > > Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. > > > > > > > > I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. > > > > > > It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class. > > > Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. > > > > 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. > > No hes engaging 5 players and they all chasing him and can't kill him not he wins and kills all 5. I see it all the time near smc then if he really wants to troll you get the perma keep tapper with 8 or 9 chasing. Depends on the builds and the players. I once killed a 5 man guild group in north camp of DBL on a minimal stealth condi trapper build, and I mean I killed them all, none got away. That said, they were five people who were stupid enough to try ressing each other through traps and choking gas after I got a full trap spike on two of them, downing them shortly after. At the time choking gas was a poison field with a pulsing daze, while I had fun stuff like torment on interrupt and draining/absorption sigils stealing their boons and healing me for 5k a second through interrupts. If they had moved out of my AoE to focus and down me before going to res whoever I got they would have killed me fairly easily, but like I say, they misplayed hard. You are generally right tho, you won't ever win fights against those kind of numbers vs anyone who has actually played thief and knows how to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuchosCZ.2167 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > > > Yeah stealth and group stealth can only be used outa combat but are perma, except group stealth lol but imagine thief in gw2 stealthing a whole zerg for 10 secs on a 5 min cd lol. Vanish is ur in combat stealth which is also perma if u dont take dots and is unusable if u currently have dots so u have to cleanse first and hope u can clear em all. Rogue has a teleport to target and can be have 2 charges if ur sub, most bind kick to it to interrupt immediately after tele lol. I will say damage should definitely reveal stealth'd target's in gw2. > > > > The point is, that stealth for thief in GW2 should be enough deffence. No reason, to make it most evasive and most mobile class as well. > > > > But there is, u literally described what makes a rogue a rogue lol add in high burst hit and run and that is a rogue like archetype. So, thief should have highest burst dmg, highest mobility, highest evasion and stealth.All that + medium armor. Oh ok then. Cool "archetype" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > > > > > Yeah stealth and group stealth can only be used outa combat but are perma, except group stealth lol but imagine thief in gw2 stealthing a whole zerg for 10 secs on a 5 min cd lol. Vanish is ur in combat stealth which is also perma if u dont take dots and is unusable if u currently have dots so u have to cleanse first and hope u can clear em all. Rogue has a teleport to target and can be have 2 charges if ur sub, most bind kick to it to interrupt immediately after tele lol. I will say damage should definitely reveal stealth'd target's in gw2. > > > > > > The point is, that stealth for thief in GW2 should be enough deffence. No reason, to make it most evasive and most mobile class as well. > > > > > > > But there is, u literally described what makes a rogue a rogue lol add in high burst hit and run and that is a rogue like archetype. > > So, thief should have highest burst dmg, highest mobility, highest evasion and stealth.All that + medium armor. Oh ok then. Cool "archetype" If I'm not playing Daredevil I have the same evasion as you but I probably don't have higher burst damage as you. Mobility has cost and thief has been getting slowly priced out of Initiative use over time. You're just parroting dumb stuff other people screech about in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuchosCZ.2167 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 So, just now, rifle thief inside our T3 SM. 5 ppl chasing him around in between guards, no way to lock him, yet he still can one shot me from stealth and then keep runing :D totaly legit bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Wow, I didn't know Infilitrator's Arrow was so crucial for escaping stationary npcs and structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > So, just now, rifle thief inside our T3 SM. 5 ppl chasing him around in between guards, no way to lock him, yet he still can one shot me from stealth and then keep runing :D totaly legit bro. It is legit. They made a good build and played alert, you didn't bother with your build so you had nothing to lock them down with. You also got one shot by rifle somehow in your own t3 sm which tells us what kind of build your running around with and somehow you don't have any shame about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuchosCZ.2167 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > So, just now, rifle thief inside our T3 SM. 5 ppl chasing him around in between guards, no way to lock him, yet he still can one shot me from stealth and then keep runing :D totaly legit bro. > > It is legit. They made a good build and played alert, you didn't bother with your build so you had nothing to lock them down with. You also got one shot by rifle somehow in your own t3 sm which tells us what kind of build your running around with and somehow you don't have any shame about that. there is no point arguing with you, if you see permastealth rifle build as OK, then go on -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > > > > > Yeah stealth and group stealth can only be used outa combat but are perma, except group stealth lol but imagine thief in gw2 stealthing a whole zerg for 10 secs on a 5 min cd lol. Vanish is ur in combat stealth which is also perma if u dont take dots and is unusable if u currently have dots so u have to cleanse first and hope u can clear em all. Rogue has a teleport to target and can be have 2 charges if ur sub, most bind kick to it to interrupt immediately after tele lol. I will say damage should definitely reveal stealth'd target's in gw2. > > > > > > The point is, that stealth for thief in GW2 should be enough deffence. No reason, to make it most evasive and most mobile class as well. > > > > > > > But there is, u literally described what makes a rogue a rogue lol add in high burst hit and run and that is a rogue like archetype. > > So, thief should have highest burst dmg, highest mobility, highest evasion and stealth.All that + medium armor. Oh ok then. Cool "archetype" I can match and out burst a thief on my ranger, guard, reaper, halo and so on, thief does not have the highest burst in the game, especially not now but yes generally because rogue's can not sustain a long time in a fight usually the archetype has its damage front loaded as a high burst and run playstyle, high mobility = the run part, force it to stay in fight and it's dead or play it against its strengths like thief in a team fight and it's bad. Thief can team fight with s/d but it's far from the optimal class to do so. It just so happens where the classes strengths are also what make it annoying to fight. Thing is most thief players while learning learn fast due to its squishyness what situations are strong for thief and what gets u destroyed so most times a player is getting destroyed by thief it's because the situation favors the thief ie +1 etc. Take a good look at the mobility across the rosters with all the tele's, charges, leaps etc across the board and I'll think ull find yes teef is most mobile but not to the degree that their always impossible to catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > So, just now, rifle thief inside our T3 SM. 5 ppl chasing him around in between guards, no way to lock him, yet he still can one shot me from stealth and then keep runing :D totaly legit bro. > > > > It is legit. They made a good build and played alert, you didn't bother with your build so you had nothing to lock them down with. You also got one shot by rifle somehow in your own t3 sm which tells us what kind of build your running around with and somehow you don't have any shame about that. > > there is no point arguing with you, if you see permastealth rifle build as OK, then go on -_- > What does a rifle have to do with long stealth duration? You don't even need SA really to stagger stealth around the map. You might need SA once you're spotted before you get pulled and nuked, unless the group are a bunch of glass players who can't slot any control or know how to pivot and cleave and get one shot by a rifle under structure buffs and likely bloodlust. Do something with your Health or Toughness at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 If in the current meta people die to thief, both dp and sd (1vs1) scenarios, it means you got outplayed, simple as that. And it is so funny to see rangers crying. People are annoyed by thief stealth, but they are okay with condi heralds who needs 5 people to take one down in the current matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > How about this...we remove stealth from the game. Thieves can have their evades, Mes the clones, etc. just no more stealth. > > > > Because, that's what this is about. TC 'mained mesmer for 6 years' most likely because of the ability to shatter bomb from stealth, the massive broken condi's from clones for years, etc. Then mesmer got adjusted / nerfed so moved on to thief...because of stealth and ability to run away. > > > > Essentially if you are dying to necros and ranger pets you have bigger L2P issues. For one, we'd like a vertical teleport like thief has, which is invaluable in WvW. > > It's more that I like Trickster archetypes and mobility... something ripped away from mes. Tell me more about the high skill classes like Guard, Necro, and your lovely Ranger. How long do you think someone would have to practice to be effective on those vs a thief or mes? No, thief and mes are so faceroll that's why everyone plays them. Definitely not an kitten load more rangers, guards and necros. Cause the community plays what's effective. I only know about ranger, but people play it because they love pet classes, not necessarily because it's easy. What most people seem to scream about on here are the glass LB rangers that only work in groups of 3-4 and are hard to target in that situation. In zergs or solo, it shouldn't be hard to be equal to or beat most rangers. Glass LB will melt and any survivability massively takes away from damage potential. I'll tell you every group I'm in I'm targeted first no matter what weapon I use, and I've come to the conclusion that it's because people see rangers as easy targets to down. Which is partially true as we don't necessarily have a ton of tools at the disposal and our class mechanic is either gimped or borderline useless depending on how you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Yikes... Just make marked cause any stealth duration over 3 seconds cause revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 aside from that, someone made a post a while ago that made the case for sentries and towers increasing lag by a lot. if we're honest, these marked debuffs are just a really lazy way to balance something, if they had any competency they would actually fix the problem builds. even tho the stealth spammer is degenerate gameplay, you're right no other profession gets treated like this. anet grow a pair and ~~hire someone~~ give someone who works for you the power to make good changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Why do thieves think the mark/detected mechanic exists just to hassle them? It's a counter to any stealth abusing group of players in enemy territory. The game is full of party stealth sources and this mechanic is its counter. Instead of defending their broken shadow arts traitline thieves could focus on asking for buffs of acrobatics. And bringing that up because infiltrator's arrow costs 2 more initiative than before is ridiculous. Infiltrator's arrow was never meant to be a disengage tool that can be used 3 times in a row to cover 2700 range. And I do also doubt that is was some basis for thief balancing in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Thieves do have traits that proc off being stealthed. Afaik only mes is the only other class that has something that procs off being in stealth. Other than that, it depends on whether the build they have relies on stealth itself, it seems to hit them more than any class that just gets marked on the map, as revealed does nothing for those other classes unless they are in a comp that heavily relies on their group play being in stealth. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth#Traits_that_affect_stealth https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth#Traits_that_benefit_from_stealth_on_self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain. > > > > Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. > > > > > > I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. > > > > It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class. > > Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. > > 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. You can check Dusha's videos, or outright ask him yourself @"Widmo.3186" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > So, just now, rifle thief inside our T3 SM. 5 ppl chasing him around in between guards, no way to lock him, yet he still can one shot me from stealth and then keep runing :D totaly legit bro. Well,some people know how to counter and others,just never learn. But hey lets keep on complaining though ! Im sure it will make you feel better giving yourself this feeling of "Class is broken" instead of, "Im gonna improve myself and learn how to shut them down". Whatever works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorani.7205 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades. I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth. And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 > @"Gorani.7205" said: > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades. > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth. > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;) Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Unrelated to the stealth discussion, the game would be better without watchtower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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