The obstacle preventing me from returning to GW2 - Living Story

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'm entirely sympathetic to the OP. If you decide, as the game's design allows, to take a break for a year, you might be locked out of maps. And that feels weird.

 

However, what would the OP prefer ANet to do?

* Charge more for expansions, so that they can afford not to charge at all for Living World stories?

* Also charge those who play every month, annoying them as much as the OP?

* Stick to a more traditional approach and only release major story and features with expansions?

 

One way or another, ANet has to turn enough of a profit so that they can continue to produce the game in the manner to which we are accustomed. They can't do that by giving everything away to everyone.

 

tl;dr if folks who play less also pay less (than they do now), then folks who play more would have to pay more. Which is the better business choice?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> You don't think you should have to pay for the STORY. Seriously? That's like going to the movie theater and complaining that you shouldn't have to pay for popcorn and a drink because you bought a ticket, or vice versa.

>

> I do think it would be beneficial for Anet to add an OPTION to include the living world seasons, individually selected and added to the cart, when you buy one of the expansions. And when you activate the key on your account, if you've unlocked one of the episodes, you get refunded the price difference in gems in-game. For example, my SiL has HoT and unlocked only 3 Season 3 episodes (and has unlocked all Season 4 episodes), but doesn't have PoF. When she goes to buy PoF, she could add Season 3 to her purchase. Then when she activates the code on her account, it recognizes that she has 3 Season 3 episodes unlocked and refunds 430 gems (assuming 960 gem price for the complete season) to her in-game. Logically, it is very simple to do. Practically, implementation may be much more difficult, but that's why devs are paid the big bucks. :)

 

I don't think that would work, because of the nature of "season passes" in the industry right now. That gravy train is turning sour fast, now that there isn't even a plan in place far enough ahead to guesstimate how many blocks of content will even be in it. Not to mention S4 being split into Season 5 under the "pre-bought system" would had immediately turned into a PR disaster, despite essentially changing nothing since we didn't know how many episodes were planned until recently. Then theres the delays of episodes, incomplete content, the Stigma of the Istan Farm (which would had been called out as Pay2Win if it was behind a paywall from the start), the value of trinkets now that they are considered a major reward aspect of LS chapters, the pricing scheme that makes them almost half the cost of the expansions, plus losing traction in the Gem store, as that pricing model changes consumer psychology in a significant way.

 

The pricing model of the LS chapters isn't even the real underlying goal here. The chapters are released for free for players who are active during that time, because it keeps players in the system long enough to capitalize on the Gem store offerings. The Gem store is what keeps this game alive. From a business perspective, the main reason they're charging for Expansions is to better ensure return on investment (due to the attention it creates)... but its still the Gemstore that makes the majority of their ongoing revenue. If theres something I've learned from watching other games, only a fraction of the players buy and/or play the second half of a game's DLC schedule. I've even bought season passes for big multiplayer games, and still quit before DLC 2 release date gets announced. For single player games I rarely even start the first DLC release unless its within 1 month of the game's launch.

 

See whats happening? Free LS chapters drive retention, and retention is what enables the Gem store to work on its rolling inventory model. Think of it as "Daily achievements", except made into a business model. Habitualize a player, and you stand a decent chance of getting them to spend money on something.... anything.

[zealex.9410]

Considering how much u love the game id assume you pay at least some of the money for lw. Or at the very least log in game and farm the gold for it.

 

 

Wew thats alot of love there dude.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

For me, $2.50 for a map, story, Legendary, Raid/Fractal/Mount/Mastery and more seems quite reasonable. Especially when the studio also offers the content at no charge for very little effort (logging in once per multi-month period).

 

Each to their own, I suppose.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"juhna.4980" said:

> Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't.

 

So, ANet gives free, for-the-life-of the-game access to various DLC, with two requirements. You're OK (at least it seems) with having to pay for the XPac that preceded given story episodes. You're not OK with having to log in once in a period of a couple of months (or more) for each episode. Is that a fair assessment?

 

MMO's make money when players play the game. Even if some players only buy XPacs, players don't pay anything if they aren't playing at all. That is very likely to hold true across a vast majority of cases.

 

What a log-in to unlock DLC access model does is: if you do log in, there's a chance you'll play the game, look in the store or both. Perhaps more importantly, if you're making an effort (however small) to think about the game, there's a much better chance you will come back eventually, than if the game is nowhere in your mind. If/when you play more regularly, there's a chance you'll spend money, which supports the game. The log-in unlock model is one way ANet is trying to improve the chance that lapsed players will come back.

 

Of course, in your case, that seems to have back-fired. That's also a percentage issue. Only if there are more players who get turned off by the log-in model than who do log in to unlock is ANet going to look at the model with an eye to change how it works. I believe, since making that content is not cheap, they'd have to just start charging everyone for DLC. I can't imagine that kind of a reversal is going to please very many of the active players.

 

I thought for a time that bundling the episodes with the XPac at a cost greater than the XPac alone would satisfy people like yourself, but I no longer think that. Knowing that other people got them for free and you didn't is the key issue. You can see similar reactions in retail when a customer comes in the week after a sale and demands he be given the items he wants at the sale prices, even though the sale is over.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > You don't think you should have to pay for the STORY. Seriously? That's like going to the movie theater and complaining that you shouldn't have to pay for popcorn and a drink because you bought a ticket, or vice versa.

> >

> > I do think it would be beneficial for Anet to add an OPTION to include the living world seasons, individually selected and added to the cart, when you buy one of the expansions. And when you activate the key on your account, if you've unlocked one of the episodes, you get refunded the price difference in gems in-game. For example, my SiL has HoT and unlocked only 3 Season 3 episodes (and has unlocked all Season 4 episodes), but doesn't have PoF. When she goes to buy PoF, she could add Season 3 to her purchase. Then when she activates the code on her account, it recognizes that she has 3 Season 3 episodes unlocked and refunds 430 gems (assuming 960 gem price for the complete season) to her in-game. Logically, it is very simple to do. Practically, implementation may be much more difficult, but that's why devs are paid the big bucks. :)

>

> I don't think that would work, because of the nature of "season passes" in the industry right now. That gravy train is turning sour fast, now that there isn't even a plan in place far enough ahead to guesstimate how many blocks of content will even be in it. Not to mention S4 being split into Season 5 under the "pre-bought system" would had immediately turned into a PR disaster, despite essentially changing nothing since we didn't know how many episodes were planned until recently. Then theres the delays of episodes, incomplete content, the Stigma of the Istan Farm (which would had been called out as Pay2Win if it was behind a paywall from the start), the value of trinkets now that they are considered a major reward aspect of LS chapters, the pricing scheme that makes them almost half the cost of the expansions, plus losing traction in the Gem store, as that pricing model changes consumer psychology in a significant way.

>

> The pricing model of the LS chapters isn't even the real underlying goal here. The chapters are released for free for players who are active during that time, because it keeps players in the system long enough to capitalize on the Gem store offerings. The Gem store is what keeps this game alive. From a business perspective, the main reason they're charging for Expansions is to better ensure return on investment (due to the attention it creates)... but its still the Gemstore that makes the majority of their ongoing revenue. If theres something I've learned from watching other games, only a fraction of the players buy and/or play the second half of a game's DLC schedule. I've even bought season passes for big multiplayer games, and still quit before DLC 2 release date gets announced. For single player games I rarely even start the first DLC release unless its within 1 month of the game's launch.

>

> See whats happening? Free LS chapters drive retention, and retention is what enables the Gem store to work on its rolling inventory model. Think of it as "Daily achievements", except made into a business model. Habitualize a player, and you stand a decent chance of getting them to spend money on something.... anything.

 

What if they only did it for completed seasons?

 

Season 2 acts as an introduction to HoT and Season 3 acts as an introduction to PoF. Presumably 4 and 5 are building up to the 3rd expansion in the same way. So they could bundle each season with it's associated expansion. That way everyone would know (or be able to find out) exactly what they were paying for and they'd get it immediately.

[Squirrel.6318]

Yeah i'm missing part of living season 4. Only 200 gems, but money is money. I've already paid for some of the other ones, I spent $10 usd on living story season 3 I think, but I haven't been satisfied with arenanet in a while so that part of living season 4 that i'm missing i'm just going to skip.

 

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> For me, $2.50 for a map, story, Legendary, Raid/Fractal/Mount/Mastery and more seems quite reasonable. Especially when the studio also offers the content at no charge for very little effort (logging in once per multi-month period).

>

> Each to their own, I suppose.

That would be fair if arenanet let us pay $2.50. But we have to pay the full amount of $10 USD for the minimum amount of gems, and $10 USD is $13 CDN.

 

For people saying that you could buy it with gold, that's fair, I can't complain about that, but I think a lot of us don't have the time to consistently grind. I have about 1500 hours and i've only had 100 gold once.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Or you could pay nothing, and use Gold-to-Gems, instead.

Or consider it banking 3 more 'missed' Episodes in the future. It's not like one would have to pay that $10.00 for every episode.

[Obtena.7952]

I guess a "Too Bad" is in order here.

[Gehenna.3625]

I had a similar situation when I came back. It's just strange to have the core game and both expansions and still have to pay for extra story and maps. I do expect that to be part of the expansion really.

 

I haven't made a big deal out of it because the expansions came cheap when I bought them but it does feel off that having the game and expansions doesn't unlock all content for you.

[Healix.5819]

> @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> For people saying that you could buy it with gold, that's fair, I can't complain about that, but I think a lot of us don't have the time to consistently grind. I have about 1500 hours and i've only had 100 gold once.

 

200 gems is currently 66g. Just selling the mystic coins and laurels from the login rewards is currently worth 60g every 28 days.

 

[Opopanax.1803]

Isn't ot like 5$ per season? That is extremely reasonable imo. I miss some of season 2 and had no problem buying the rest of it because it is so cheap.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > > You don't think you should have to pay for the STORY. Seriously? That's like going to the movie theater and complaining that you shouldn't have to pay for popcorn and a drink because you bought a ticket, or vice versa.

> > >

> > > I do think it would be beneficial for Anet to add an OPTION to include the living world seasons, individually selected and added to the cart, when you buy one of the expansions. And when you activate the key on your account, if you've unlocked one of the episodes, you get refunded the price difference in gems in-game. For example, my SiL has HoT and unlocked only 3 Season 3 episodes (and has unlocked all Season 4 episodes), but doesn't have PoF. When she goes to buy PoF, she could add Season 3 to her purchase. Then when she activates the code on her account, it recognizes that she has 3 Season 3 episodes unlocked and refunds 430 gems (assuming 960 gem price for the complete season) to her in-game. Logically, it is very simple to do. Practically, implementation may be much more difficult, but that's why devs are paid the big bucks. :)

> >

> > I don't think that would work, because of the nature of "season passes" in the industry right now. That gravy train is turning sour fast, now that there isn't even a plan in place far enough ahead to guesstimate how many blocks of content will even be in it. Not to mention S4 being split into Season 5 under the "pre-bought system" would had immediately turned into a PR disaster, despite essentially changing nothing since we didn't know how many episodes were planned until recently. Then theres the delays of episodes, incomplete content, the Stigma of the Istan Farm (which would had been called out as Pay2Win if it was behind a paywall from the start), the value of trinkets now that they are considered a major reward aspect of LS chapters, the pricing scheme that makes them almost half the cost of the expansions, plus losing traction in the Gem store, as that pricing model changes consumer psychology in a significant way.

> >

> > The pricing model of the LS chapters isn't even the real underlying goal here. The chapters are released for free for players who are active during that time, because it keeps players in the system long enough to capitalize on the Gem store offerings. The Gem store is what keeps this game alive. From a business perspective, the main reason they're charging for Expansions is to better ensure return on investment (due to the attention it creates)... but its still the Gemstore that makes the majority of their ongoing revenue. If theres something I've learned from watching other games, only a fraction of the players buy and/or play the second half of a game's DLC schedule. I've even bought season passes for big multiplayer games, and still quit before DLC 2 release date gets announced. For single player games I rarely even start the first DLC release unless its within 1 month of the game's launch.

> >

> > See whats happening? Free LS chapters drive retention, and retention is what enables the Gem store to work on its rolling inventory model. Think of it as "Daily achievements", except made into a business model. Habitualize a player, and you stand a decent chance of getting them to spend money on something.... anything.

>

> What if they only did it for completed seasons?

>

> Season 2 acts as an introduction to HoT and Season 3 acts as an introduction to PoF. Presumably 4 and 5 are building up to the 3rd expansion in the same way. So they could bundle each season with it's associated expansion. That way everyone would know (or be able to find out) exactly what they were paying for and they'd get it immediately.

 

But thats missing the entire point...... The goal is to have make sure you're around when the content drops, not just show up periodically and blow through the back catalog of story chapters. They want you ACTIVE in the game, because having a large, active population is both directly and indirectly profitable.

[Wolfb.7025]

The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

 

Active players get a 100% discount on a DLC episode if they log in once between when it’s released and when the next DLC or expansion is released. I don’t know many games where DLC’s are just given away for free. It’s not a punishment.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

 

Not giving you something that you didn't pay for is not punishment.

 

Are you punishing me by not giving me your computer?

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > You don't think you should have to pay for the STORY. Seriously? That's like going to the movie theater and complaining that you shouldn't have to pay for popcorn and a drink because you bought a ticket, or vice versa.

> >

> > I do think it would be beneficial for Anet to add an OPTION to include the living world seasons, individually selected and added to the cart, when you buy one of the expansions. And when you activate the key on your account, if you've unlocked one of the episodes, you get refunded the price difference in gems in-game. For example, my SiL has HoT and unlocked only 3 Season 3 episodes (and has unlocked all Season 4 episodes), but doesn't have PoF. When she goes to buy PoF, she could add Season 3 to her purchase. Then when she activates the code on her account, it recognizes that she has 3 Season 3 episodes unlocked and refunds 430 gems (assuming 960 gem price for the complete season) to her in-game. Logically, it is very simple to do. Practically, implementation may be much more difficult, but that's why devs are paid the big bucks. :)

>

> I don't think that would work, because of the nature of "season passes" in the industry right now. That gravy train is turning sour fast, now that there isn't even a plan in place far enough ahead to guesstimate how many blocks of content will even be in it. Not to mention S4 being split into Season 5 under the "pre-bought system" would had immediately turned into a PR disaster, despite essentially changing nothing since we didn't know how many episodes were planned until recently. Then theres the delays of episodes, incomplete content, the Stigma of the Istan Farm (which would had been called out as Pay2Win if it was behind a paywall from the start), the value of trinkets now that they are considered a major reward aspect of LS chapters, the pricing scheme that makes them almost half the cost of the expansions, plus losing traction in the Gem store, as that pricing model changes consumer psychology in a significant way.

>

> The pricing model of the LS chapters isn't even the real underlying goal here. The chapters are released for free for players who are active during that time, because it keeps players in the system long enough to capitalize on the Gem store offerings. The Gem store is what keeps this game alive. From a business perspective, the main reason they're charging for Expansions is to better ensure return on investment (due to the attention it creates)... but its still the Gemstore that makes the majority of their ongoing revenue. If theres something I've learned from watching other games, only a fraction of the players buy and/or play the second half of a game's DLC schedule. I've even bought season passes for big multiplayer games, and still quit before DLC 2 release date gets announced. For single player games I rarely even start the first DLC release unless its within 1 month of the game's launch.

>

> See whats happening? Free LS chapters drive retention, and retention is what enables the Gem store to work on its rolling inventory model. Think of it as "Daily achievements", except made into a business model. Habitualize a player, and you stand a decent chance of getting them to spend money on something.... anything.

 

I think you are missing my intent in adding the ability to purchase the seasons with the expansion. It is NOT meant to replace the current model of getting them free when you log in. It IS meant to make the seasons that you may have missed obtainable at the same time you buy the new expansion. You wouldn't be able to buy Season 4 and 5 with PoF until after those seasons have been completed. For example, on my alternate account, I bought season 2 just within the last month. But if I could have added it to my purchase at the time I bought PoF, I may very well have. What my suggested model does is reduce the 'I bought the expansion, and now that I'm in the game, I've got to buy the DLC too!' complaint. It wouldn't be like a season pass where you pre-pay for content, but it would be a catch-up pass where you pay for content that you missed out on.

[Wolfb.7025]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

>

> Active players get a 100% discount on a DLC episode if they log in once between when it’s released and when the next DLC or expansion is released. I don’t know many games where DLC’s are just given away for free. It’s not a punishment.

 

Yeah its pretty nice for them to do that, I only said that as I joined recently, besides paying for HoT and PoF, I had to pay with another 2k of gems to play the rest of the story, as I didn't get the opportunity to "log in and get them for free" because I wasnt playing at that given moment.

 

Dont get me wrong, I love this game, I already got all the story content.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"juhna.4980" said:

> I apologize if this isn't the right forum for this but I didn't see anywhere else to post general feedback...

> So GW2 is perhaps my most played game. I love it, obviously. I've been away a while and after running into the GW2 booth at PAX a few weeks ago I really got the itch to return. But I'm not going to this time and here's why - the gated Living Story.

> Having been gone a while I'm now expected to pay to play past LS. Sure I could have logged in each release but I didn't. I don't like having the main story held hostage like this. I've taken other breaks over the years and bought the LS I've missed. But not this time. I just wanted to let ArenaNet know that I'd like to come back but this is the roadblock that's preventing me.

 

If you think that 2-5 dollars per episiode, considering everything that gets packed into them, is excessive or somehow "holding the story hostage", I submit that MMORPGs may not be the best hobby for you.

 

The price of the LS content drops are easily some of the best value in online gaming.

[Blude.6812]

Just to let the OP know there is a new Living story next week, and it is free if you take 30 seconds to log on and activate it, just like all the LS episodes that

came out. You could have logged on--Oh well, too bad. Buy them or not, but don't complain about missing out on free content cause you didn't stay current.

 

[Xbon.9086]

You can pay with gold, and steps are often worth any gold investment you put into them, a new mount in one of them for example, griffon cost 250g, a living story step is far cheaper than that.

[DaFishBob.6518]

> @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > > You don't think you should have to pay for the STORY. Seriously? That's like going to the movie theater and complaining that you shouldn't have to pay for popcorn and a drink because you bought a ticket, or vice versa.

> > >

> > > I do think it would be beneficial for Anet to add an OPTION to include the living world seasons, individually selected and added to the cart, when you buy one of the expansions. And when you activate the key on your account, if you've unlocked one of the episodes, you get refunded the price difference in gems in-game. For example, my SiL has HoT and unlocked only 3 Season 3 episodes (and has unlocked all Season 4 episodes), but doesn't have PoF. When she goes to buy PoF, she could add Season 3 to her purchase. Then when she activates the code on her account, it recognizes that she has 3 Season 3 episodes unlocked and refunds 430 gems (assuming 960 gem price for the complete season) to her in-game. Logically, it is very simple to do. Practically, implementation may be much more difficult, but that's why devs are paid the big bucks. :)

> >

> > I don't think that would work, because of the nature of "season passes" in the industry right now. That gravy train is turning sour fast, now that there isn't even a plan in place far enough ahead to guesstimate how many blocks of content will even be in it. Not to mention S4 being split into Season 5 under the "pre-bought system" would had immediately turned into a PR disaster, despite essentially changing nothing since we didn't know how many episodes were planned until recently. Then theres the delays of episodes, incomplete content, the Stigma of the Istan Farm (which would had been called out as Pay2Win if it was behind a paywall from the start), the value of trinkets now that they are considered a major reward aspect of LS chapters, the pricing scheme that makes them almost half the cost of the expansions, plus losing traction in the Gem store, as that pricing model changes consumer psychology in a significant way.

> >

> > The pricing model of the LS chapters isn't even the real underlying goal here. The chapters are released for free for players who are active during that time, because it keeps players in the system long enough to capitalize on the Gem store offerings. The Gem store is what keeps this game alive. From a business perspective, the main reason they're charging for Expansions is to better ensure return on investment (due to the attention it creates)... but its still the Gemstore that makes the majority of their ongoing revenue. If theres something I've learned from watching other games, only a fraction of the players buy and/or play the second half of a game's DLC schedule. I've even bought season passes for big multiplayer games, and still quit before DLC 2 release date gets announced. For single player games I rarely even start the first DLC release unless its within 1 month of the game's launch.

> >

> > See whats happening? Free LS chapters drive retention, and retention is what enables the Gem store to work on its rolling inventory model. Think of it as "Daily achievements", except made into a business model. Habitualize a player, and you stand a decent chance of getting them to spend money on something.... anything.

>

> I think you are missing my intent in adding the ability to purchase the seasons with the expansion. It is NOT meant to replace the current model of getting them free when you log in. It IS meant to make the seasons that you may have missed obtainable at the same time you buy the new expansion. You wouldn't be able to buy Season 4 and 5 with PoF until after those seasons have been completed. For example, on my alternate account, I bought season 2 just within the last month. But if I could have added it to my purchase at the time I bought PoF, I may very well have. What my suggested model does is reduce the 'I bought the expansion, and now that I'm in the game, I've got to buy the DLC too!' complaint. It wouldn't be like a season pass where you pre-pay for content, but it would be a catch-up pass where you pay for content that you missed out on.

 

Hey, I kinda like that line of thinking, and it can be rationalized too from a business standpoint: it's old content, it's not the hot stuff in the game, the gem store won't be as flavorful towards this older stuff so this is a way to move it out faster to those who missed it and are currently in a money spending mood.

[Opopanax.1803]

I paid 5$ for all of season 2. Maybe that was a sale, but that is perfectly reasonable, imo

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"juhna.4980" said:

> Do not misunderstand. I have spent many times the base cost of this game over the years. I want to spend that money on what I want. Not on the story.

 

So what I am getting from this. You are willing to spend money on things you want. But you don't want to spend money on the living story. So you must not want the living story? Then why are you asking for it to be given to you for free?

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> > @"juhna.4980" said:

> > Do not misunderstand. I have spent many times the base cost of this game over the years. I want to spend that money on what I want. Not on the story.

>

> Well, you can save up a little money and choose to not buy stuff in the gemstore for a while, and use that money instead on the LW episode you need. Or you could save up some in-game gold and convert it. You can also never pay for them when they come out again if you log in once every couple months. The point is that it's either this, or we're all forced to have a monthly subscription fee, *which I don't think anybody wants*.

 

Actually it's more like "either way you'll have to pay" but the current way also allows you to pay with gold.

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > The only concern I have about this topic is, why do us, the new players, have to pay for the living world chapters just to play them. It feels like it is a punishment for not playing the game before we actually joined.

>

> Active players get a 100% discount on a DLC episode if they log in once between when it’s released and when the next DLC or expansion is released. I don’t know many games where DLC’s are just given away for free. It’s not a punishment.

 

With F2P games perhaps but GW2 is not a F2P game.