Teratus.2859 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > For the love of god...can one mod please please please close this thread?...jesus...I regret opening this thread, always ready with their pitchforks these pvers.... Ya, that what's happens, as with other threads that have less than stellar idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > Because PvE sells MMO's and continues to bring income into the game thus keeping the game alive, PvP and WvW doesnt. Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all. PvE is where the vast majority of players are and PvE is where the Devs need to pull players from to improve PvP and WvW populations, it's impossible to do this without appealing to them and made more difficult when the elitist PvP/WvW crowd keep pushing them away newcomers and complaining every time any change is made to try and bring more players in. I always hear people say WvW is Endgame content yet you don't want pvers coming there.. they complain the gamemode is dying yet you don't want pvers coming there.. WvW maps are empty and low population yet you don't want pvers coming there.. The devs don't care about WvW and neglect the content.. but you don't want pvers coming there.. How can you possibly remedy any of that without increasing the population and making people want to go there?.. Unless it gets more popular every change and update made in an attempt to make it better and increase the population is a colossal waste of the devs time and money and I would not be surprised at all if multiple conversations have been had over the years about pulling the plug on WvW entirely. Truth is you need Pvers to come to WvW and get invested in this content.. and like I said the only way that's going to happen is if they get incentive to come there, and since the bulk of the content in WvW is defined by the actions of other players it also falls to regular WvW players to play a part and ensure that WvW remains a fun and welcoming place to keep people coming back.. sadly that is something that just hasnt happened over the years and a big part of the reason WvW has such a bad reputation outside of it's regular players. We don't need you, but you do need us.. personally I don't want to see this gamemode fail anymore than you do. That's why I want to see more incentives to bring Pvers to WvW and I want to see you WvW guys embracing this and benefitting from it as well, but that's not going to happen if WvW remains a place that pushes people away and caters only to the minority of diehard WvW players.. that's how you kill WvW.. or at the very least keep it in a perpetual state of mediocrity and boredom like it has been for many years. Gotta have the playerbase if you want the devs to justify big investments like new maps etc which is something the game mode desperately needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > For the love of god...can one mod please please please close this thread?...jesus...I regret opening this thread, always ready with their pitchforks these pvers.... That’s simple: self report it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualkenny.9817 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I can't think of a single (valid) reason/con to object to making the warclaw (which I don't own) slightly slower than raptor/jackal in pve. If someone is willing to sacrifice a bit of his speed to use his (imo ugly) kitty in pve, how does it affect anybody else? Aside from the subjective element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"casualkenny.9817" said: > I can't think of a single (valid) reason/con to object to making the warclaw (which I don't own) slightly slower than raptor/jackal in pve. If someone is willing to sacrifice a bit of his speed to use his (imo ugly) kitty in pve, how does it affect anybody else? Aside from the subjective element. It has three dodges and more HP than any other mount. Would you be OK with giving those up for speed? Like cut it’s HP by 66%? Make its engage do less damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"casualkenny.9817" said: > I can't think of a single (valid) reason/con to object to making the warclaw (which I don't own) slightly slower than raptor/jackal in pve. If someone is willing to sacrifice a bit of his speed to use his (imo ugly) kitty in pve, how does it affect anybody else? Aside from the subjective element. it already is slower so mission accomplised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > Because PvE sells MMO's and continues to bring income into the game thus keeping the game alive, PvP and WvW doesnt. > Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all. That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > PvE is where the vast majority of players are and PvE is where the Devs need to pull players from to improve PvP and WvW populations, it's impossible to do this without appealing to them and made more difficult when the elitist PvP/WvW crowd keep pushing them away newcomers and complaining every time any change is made to try and bring more players in. The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around > I always hear people say WvW is Endgame content yet you don't want pvers coming there.. they complain the gamemode is dying yet you don't want pvers coming there.. WvW maps are empty and low population yet you don't want pvers coming there.. Nothing wrong with people coming to try wvw, but the vast majority of pvers only want rewards. Again, eotm is a perfect example of how pvers exploited a map, skipped pvp content to maximize profit. Wvw, sadly, has a strong pvp element. > The devs don't care about WvW and neglect the content.. but you don't want pvers coming there.. I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > How can you possibly remedy any of that without increasing the population and making people want to go there?.. Again, people will want to go there if they like pvp. If they dont, the only way to entice them is to remove pvp altogether and give them better rewards than SW farming in terms of gold/hour > Unless it gets more popular every change and update made in an attempt to make it better and increase the population is a colossal waste of the devs time and money and I would not be surprised at all if multiple conversations have been had over the years about pulling the plug on WvW entirely. > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > Truth is you need Pvers to come to WvW and get invested in this content.. and like I said the only way that's going to happen is if they get incentive to come there, and since the bulk of the content in WvW is defined by the actions of other players it also falls to regular WvW players to play a part and ensure that WvW remains a fun and welcoming place to keep people coming back.. sadly that is something that just hasnt happened over the years and a big part of the reason WvW has such a bad reputation outside of it's regular players. Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > We don't need you, but you do need us.. personally I don't want to see this gamemode fail anymore than you do. So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > That's why I want to see more incentives to bring Pvers to WvW and I want to see you WvW guys embracing this and benefitting from it as well, but that's not going to happen if WvW remains a place that pushes people away and caters only to the minority of diehard WvW players.. that's how you kill WvW.. or at the very least keep it in a perpetual state of mediocrity and boredom like it has been for many years. You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > Gotta have the playerbase if you want the devs to justify big investments like new maps etc which is something the game mode desperately needs. No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > It's not hard to obtain a warclaw in wvw even if you've never played wvw before, you can come in and get your mount in a couple of days max , I see no reason why the mount supposed to be useless **(especially after I paid RL cash for the skins)** in a pve setting, now that the mount is getting "rebalanced" in wvw...make sure we get something back in PvE You do realize, that this "rebalanced" means "nerfed" this time? You sure you want the Warclaw to get nerfed in PvE as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. That's why you need us Pvers coming there and staying there. For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that crap is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? I'm not arguing to "change" it. I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. It's not possible to balance the game across 3 vastly different game modes with skill sharing.. it simply cannot be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 ?If we now start balancing the Warclaw for PvE, we could just keep it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > > That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. > > I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > That is precisely what you said: "Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all." > > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. > > Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. Dev attention means freebies for pvers? > That's why you need us Pvers coming there and staying there. No, actually, noone wants a mode changed to cater to pver mentality. And this has been proven time and again with the death of eotm when regular exp was removed and rewards were nerfed. If people enjoyed the pvp elements, they would have stayed cause that certainly didnt change. Guess what, everyone left. > For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that kitten is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. EotM did this, pvers did endless ktrains with all wvw rewards plus pve rewards, eotm died when rewards were nerfed. They dont step into wvw cause they hate the pvp part of wvw. This should be clear. Warclaw has nothing to do with this, considering that a lot of pvers got the mount and never reentered wvw. > WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. I dont know which server you are in, but if you have a shortage of fights, move to a server that suits you better. Wvw has battles, of course it does, but every reset is plagued by lag, huge lag, making it unplayable. I have yet to hear about a server that doesnt fight, at least in EU. Eotm had that absence of battles, people avoided each other. > Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. WvW is organized, comms ask for specific classes abd builds to maximize efficiency. Pvers cant change their mindset, play pve builds, die over and over, complain about wvw being toxic, leave. I play many hours of wvw each day, I keep seeing this every day. > I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > If you dont like it, dont roam. Roaming has a special place in the way of denying supply, sneaky camp caps, distracting the enemy, cutting off reinforcements. Again, you cant tell people how to play. Yet you do. > > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > > > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > > > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > > Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. Again, pvers will only enter wvw if rewards are substantially buffed and pvp elements nerfed. > There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > Players hate content cause they hate seeing their toon die. > > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > > > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > > I'm not arguing to "change" it. > I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. > Fractals are Core content, too. Should we allow people to have HoT/PoF specs to "draw more people in"? Nope. PoF has the strongest specs for wvw. The mount It is accessible to those who wvw, provided they buy PoF. Everyone else doesnt need it. 7 PoF mounts are enough. "p2w" could apply as far as the specs are concerned, but... Warclaw? Really? > Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. Its not fine. It ruined many wvw aspects, added to lag, while it catered to pvers not liking to get ganked. And thats why they announced they will nerf it even further. Rightly so. > I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. > To you, a pver, it certainly is. To me, not really. I mentioned things above. > The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. You vastly underestimate roaming. > In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > It is a pvp map cause wvw is a... Mainly pvp mode. How is that surprising? > > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things > > You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. > Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. > I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. > Imagine pvers waiting for a new living world episode for 2 years. Hah. > Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. They dont play it cause, again, pvp isnt for everyone. > Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. > Players make metas, builds etc. Pvers play "however they want". They get farmed. People dont tag up anymore. Not surprising. > As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. > WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. > Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. Because pve is their main target, which you fully agree with. Cant understand why youre baffled. > It's not possible to balance the game across 3 vastly different game modes with skill sharing.. it simply cannot be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > > > > That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. > > > > I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > > > That is precisely what you said: "Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all." > I didn't however say you couldn't do it as you're implying, only that it doesn't make sense to buy a game and dismiss the vast majority of it's content. Most would agree that makes little to no sense, specially if you're paying money for it. > > > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. > > > > Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. > Dev attention means freebies for pvers? > No, actually, noone wants a mode changed to cater to pver mentality. And this has been proven time and again with the death of eotm when regular exp was removed and rewards were nerfed. If people enjoyed the pvp elements, they would have stayed cause that certainly didnt change. Guess what, everyone left. No it means a better game for everyone. You do realize WvW is based in a PVEVP setting right? It is NOT! pure PvP as duelists and solo roamers tend to treat it. If anything WvW has had it's more PvE elements butchered over the years partly because of complaints by WvW players and the actual WvW experience has died because everyone would rather cap and recap, duel or solo roam than actually stage and fight big battles which is what the mode was designed for and what should be a regular occurance there. You can't blame Pver's and dev neglect for that.. that was all on you guys. WvW doesn't need to cater to Pver mentality but it does need to change and return to what WvW is supposed to be.. and everyone needs to adapt to that or just accept that WvW is never going to get any better. > > For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that kitten is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. > EotM did this, pvers did endless ktrains with all wvw rewards plus pve rewards, eotm died when rewards were nerfed. They dont step into wvw cause they hate the pvp part of wvw. This should be clear. Warclaw has nothing to do with this, considering that a lot of pvers got the mount and never reentered wvw. Yes I remember that time and all the awesome big battles I had due to the large number of players playing the game mode.. My favourite was when my server's army had a 35minute standoff with another, It was awesome even though we eventually lost it. Removing the rewards is connected in part to the butchering of PvE elements from a PvEvP game mode that I mentioned above, and that was largely to blame for such a population drop in the first place. You can't put that on Pve players because when the rewards stopped and the pver's left the WvW players continued the same cap and recap stuff only now it wasn't rewarding and became very boring because all the big battles which were the best part of WvW went away because the players now avoided them. > > WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. > I dont know which server you are in, but if you have a shortage of fights, move to a server that suits you better. Wvw has battles, of course it does, but every reset is plagued by lag, huge lag, making it unplayable. I have yet to hear about a server that doesnt fight, at least in EU. Eotm had that absence of battles, people avoided each other. Seafarers Rest, I used to get my battles often enough back in the day, not so much now though. Either my squad runs or theirs does. Only time I get any kind of battle is if a group of people decide to defend a location which is rare, usually they abandon it and just recap it later.. because it's more rewarding than defending. > > Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. > WvW is organized, comms ask for specific classes abd builds to maximize efficiency. Pvers cant change their mindset, play pve builds, die over and over, complain about wvw being toxic, leave. I play many hours of wvw each day, I keep seeing this every day. Yep been those kinds of squads too.. and they often avoid big skirmishes as well choosing only to engage if they know they will win. I've even had an instance where I've been following a huge squad and a huge enemy squad runs past.. we size each other up and then both squads just walk away because they don't want to fight each other.. I logged out after that and didn't come back to WvW until the Warclaw was released because it annoyed me so much. > > I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > > > If you dont like it, dont roam. Roaming has a special place in the way of denying supply, sneaky camp caps, distracting the enemy, cutting off reinforcements. Again, you cant tell people how to play. Yet you do. It does have a place, but not if everyone is doing it and having 1v1 duels.. Being forced into the role because nobody wants to do anything else is partly what is killing WvW. > > > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > > > > > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > > > > > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > > > > Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. > Again, pvers will only enter wvw if rewards are substantially buffed and pvp elements nerfed. Buffed rewards would help but so would WvW actually being WvW and not the pseudo PvP joke it's become. As I said most people who want to PvP go to PvP., and that's where they belong. WvW is for PvEvP and you guys treating it like PvP is part of the problem that's killing it. > > There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > > > Players hate content cause they hate seeing their toon die. That's just ridiculous, nobody would play the game if that was the case. > > > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > > > > > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > > > > I'm not arguing to "change" it. > > I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. > > > Fractals are Core content, too. Should we allow people to have HoT/PoF specs to "draw more people in"? Nope. > PoF has the strongest specs for wvw. The mount > It is accessible to those who wvw, provided they buy PoF. Everyone else doesnt need it. 7 PoF mounts are enough. "p2w" could apply as far as the specs are concerned, but... Warclaw? Really? Elite Specs don't replace core classes, they add to them and there are plenty of viable core builds that don't use elite specs. Mounts on the other hand create a huge mobility gap between players that have them and players that dont, in WvW where players need to stay together in large groups.. not having access to a mount because you don't have the expansion puts you at a massive disadvantage and practically forces you to solo roam which for a new player is the fastest way to kill their interest in WvW. If you don't think that is a problem then im inclined to believe that you simply don't want new players there in the first place. > > Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. > Its not fine. It ruined many wvw aspects, added to lag, while it catered to pvers not liking to get ganked. And thats why they announced they will nerf it even further. Rightly so. What WvW aspects would those be? do elaborate on your complaints because I don't have any. As for the lag.. I don't get it often but then I have a good Pc and a fast connection which is pretty much essential for a gamemode like WvW anyway. > > I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. > > > To you, a pver, it certainly is. To me, not really. I mentioned things above. Mostly a Pver, I can enjoy all game modes providing they are fun and WvW isn't fun in it's current state largely because there is no WvW in WvW and far too much PvP. > > The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. > You vastly underestimate roaming. No, im forced to do it almost every time I go there. It's boring and the only action it gives is solo capping or small pvp skirmishes which are far more enjoyable in actual PvP as that's what PvP is for in the first place. WvW is for big battles between armies of players and those big battles are a rarety in it. > > In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > > > It is a pvp map cause wvw is a... Mainly pvp mode. How is that surprising? It's PvEvP. > > > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things > > > > You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. > > Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. > > I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. > > > Imagine pvers waiting for a new living world episode for 2 years. Hah. We've been waiting for the next expansion for over 2 and probably will have to wait another year or 2 for it. I'm waiting on alliances just like you, you don't need to keep making salty jabs at content you have full access to but choose not to play. > > Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. > They dont play it cause, again, pvp isnt for everyone. Again it's not PvP it's PvEvP, they're not the same thing and they cater to different people. Some don't like WvW so the go to PvP. Some prefer to stay in PvE. And some don't care for PvP and want to exprience WvW as a WvW game mode not a pseudo PvP game mode which isn't fun to them. > > Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. > > > Players make metas, builds etc. Pvers play "however they want". They get farmed. People dont tag up anymore. Not surprising. Because a lot of the WvW commanders have given up and moved on.. largely because they got fed up with the state of WvW. This isn't Pvers fault it's WvW players fault. > > As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. > > WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. > > Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. > Because pve is their main target, which you fully agree with. Cant understand why youre baffled. That has nothing to do with it. The only way non skill splitting makse sense is if Gw2 was an open world PvEvP game in general.. but it's not. It has 3 disctinctly different game modes that should be balanced individually, it's more resources and time initially sure but it's also common sense and saves you far more trouble down the road. 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XatraZaytrax.2601 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I use my warclaw all the time in pve. Sometimes I just want to ride around and enjoy the scenery. It is a good option for a regular mount. Just because it does not spit fire and fart rainbows, does not mean it is useless. Why does everything in this game have to be fantastical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > > > > > > That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. > > > > > > I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > > > > > That is precisely what you said: "Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all." > > > > I didn't however say you couldn't do it as you're implying, only that it doesn't make sense to buy a game and dismiss the vast majority of it's content. > Most would agree that makes little to no sense, specially if you're paying money for it. > > > > > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. > > > > > > Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. > > Dev attention means freebies for pvers? > > > No, actually, noone wants a mode changed to cater to pver mentality. And this has been proven time and again with the death of eotm when regular exp was removed and rewards were nerfed. If people enjoyed the pvp elements, they would have stayed cause that certainly didnt change. Guess what, everyone left. > > No it means a better game for everyone. > > You do realize WvW is based in a PVEVP setting right? It is NOT! pure PvP as duelists and solo roamers tend to treat it. > If anything WvW has had it's more PvE elements butchered over the years partly because of complaints by WvW players and the actual WvW experience has died because everyone would rather cap and recap, duel or solo roam than actually stage and fight big battles which is what the mode was designed for and what should be a regular occurance there. > You can't blame Pver's and dev neglect for that.. that was all on you guys. > > WvW doesn't need to cater to Pver mentality but it does need to change and return to what WvW is supposed to be.. and everyone needs to adapt to that or just accept that WvW is never going to get any better. > > > > For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that kitten is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. > > EotM did this, pvers did endless ktrains with all wvw rewards plus pve rewards, eotm died when rewards were nerfed. They dont step into wvw cause they hate the pvp part of wvw. This should be clear. Warclaw has nothing to do with this, considering that a lot of pvers got the mount and never reentered wvw. > > Yes I remember that time and all the awesome big battles I had due to the large number of players playing the game mode.. My favourite was when my server's army had a 35minute standoff with another, It was awesome even though we eventually lost it. > Removing the rewards is connected in part to the butchering of PvE elements from a PvEvP game mode that I mentioned above, and that was largely to blame for such a population drop in the first place. > You can't put that on Pve players because when the rewards stopped and the pver's left the WvW players continued the same cap and recap stuff only now it wasn't rewarding and became very boring because all the big battles which were the best part of WvW went away because the players now avoided them. > > > > WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. > > I dont know which server you are in, but if you have a shortage of fights, move to a server that suits you better. Wvw has battles, of course it does, but every reset is plagued by lag, huge lag, making it unplayable. I have yet to hear about a server that doesnt fight, at least in EU. Eotm had that absence of battles, people avoided each other. > > Seafarers Rest, I used to get my battles often enough back in the day, not so much now though. > Either my squad runs or theirs does. > Only time I get any kind of battle is if a group of people decide to defend a location which is rare, usually they abandon it and just recap it later.. because it's more rewarding than defending. > > > > Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. > > WvW is organized, comms ask for specific classes abd builds to maximize efficiency. Pvers cant change their mindset, play pve builds, die over and over, complain about wvw being toxic, leave. I play many hours of wvw each day, I keep seeing this every day. > > Yep been those kinds of squads too.. and they often avoid big skirmishes as well choosing only to engage if they know they will win. > I've even had an instance where I've been following a huge squad and a huge enemy squad runs past.. we size each other up and then both squads just walk away because they don't want to fight each other.. I logged out after that and didn't come back to WvW until the Warclaw was released because it annoyed me so much. > > > > I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > > > > > If you dont like it, dont roam. Roaming has a special place in the way of denying supply, sneaky camp caps, distracting the enemy, cutting off reinforcements. Again, you cant tell people how to play. Yet you do. > > It does have a place, but not if everyone is doing it and having 1v1 duels.. > Being forced into the role because nobody wants to do anything else is partly what is killing WvW. > > > > > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > > > > > > > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > > > > > > > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > > > > > > Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. > > Again, pvers will only enter wvw if rewards are substantially buffed and pvp elements nerfed. > > Buffed rewards would help but so would WvW actually being WvW and not the pseudo PvP joke it's become. > As I said most people who want to PvP go to PvP., and that's where they belong. > WvW is for PvEvP and you guys treating it like PvP is part of the problem that's killing it. > > > > There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > > > > > Players hate content cause they hate seeing their toon die. > > That's just ridiculous, nobody would play the game if that was the case. > > > > > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > > > > > > > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > > > > > > I'm not arguing to "change" it. > > > I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. > > > > > Fractals are Core content, too. Should we allow people to have HoT/PoF specs to "draw more people in"? Nope. > > PoF has the strongest specs for wvw. The mount > > It is accessible to those who wvw, provided they buy PoF. Everyone else doesnt need it. 7 PoF mounts are enough. "p2w" could apply as far as the specs are concerned, but... Warclaw? Really? > > Elite Specs don't replace core classes, they add to them and there are plenty of viable core builds that don't use elite specs. > Mounts on the other hand create a huge mobility gap between players that have them and players that dont, in WvW where players need to stay together in large groups.. not having access to a mount because you don't have the expansion puts you at a massive disadvantage and practically forces you to solo roam which for a new player is the fastest way to kill their interest in WvW. > If you don't think that is a problem then im inclined to believe that you simply don't want new players there in the first place. > > > > Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. > > Its not fine. It ruined many wvw aspects, added to lag, while it catered to pvers not liking to get ganked. And thats why they announced they will nerf it even further. Rightly so. > > What WvW aspects would those be? do elaborate on your complaints because I don't have any. > As for the lag.. I don't get it often but then I have a good Pc and a fast connection which is pretty much essential for a gamemode like WvW anyway. > > > > I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. > > > > > To you, a pver, it certainly is. To me, not really. I mentioned things above. > > Mostly a Pver, I can enjoy all game modes providing they are fun and WvW isn't fun in it's current state largely because there is no WvW in WvW and far too much PvP. > > > > The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. > > You vastly underestimate roaming. > > No, im forced to do it almost every time I go there. > It's boring and the only action it gives is solo capping or small pvp skirmishes which are far more enjoyable in actual PvP as that's what PvP is for in the first place. > WvW is for big battles between armies of players and those big battles are a rarety in it. > > > > In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > > > > > It is a pvp map cause wvw is a... Mainly pvp mode. How is that surprising? > > It's PvEvP. > > > > > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things > > > > > > You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. > > > Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. > > > I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. > > > > > Imagine pvers waiting for a new living world episode for 2 years. Hah. > > We've been waiting for the next expansion for over 2 and probably will have to wait another year or 2 for it. > I'm waiting on alliances just like you, you don't need to keep making salty jabs at content you have full access to but choose not to play. > > > > Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. > > They dont play it cause, again, pvp isnt for everyone. > > Again it's not PvP it's PvEvP, they're not the same thing and they cater to different people. > Some don't like WvW so the go to PvP. > Some prefer to stay in PvE. > And some don't care for PvP and want to exprience WvW as a WvW game mode not a pseudo PvP game mode which isn't fun to them. > > > > Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. > > > > > Players make metas, builds etc. Pvers play "however they want". They get farmed. People dont tag up anymore. Not surprising. > > Because a lot of the WvW commanders have given up and moved on.. largely because they got fed up with the state of WvW. > This isn't Pvers fault it's WvW players fault. > > > > As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. > > > WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. > > > Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. > > Because pve is their main target, which you fully agree with. Cant understand why youre baffled. > > That has nothing to do with it. > The only way non skill splitting makse sense is if Gw2 was an open world PvEvP game in general.. but it's not. > It has 3 disctinctly different game modes that should be balanced individually, it's more resources and time initially sure but it's also common sense and saves you far more trouble down the road. "wvw has too much pvp". There we have it. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > > > > > > > > That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. > > > > > > > > I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > > > > > > > That is precisely what you said: "Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all." > > > > > > > I didn't however say you couldn't do it as you're implying, only that it doesn't make sense to buy a game and dismiss the vast majority of it's content. > > Most would agree that makes little to no sense, specially if you're paying money for it. > > > > > > > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. > > > > > > > > Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. > > > Dev attention means freebies for pvers? > > > > > No, actually, noone wants a mode changed to cater to pver mentality. And this has been proven time and again with the death of eotm when regular exp was removed and rewards were nerfed. If people enjoyed the pvp elements, they would have stayed cause that certainly didnt change. Guess what, everyone left. > > > > No it means a better game for everyone. > > > > You do realize WvW is based in a PVEVP setting right? It is NOT! pure PvP as duelists and solo roamers tend to treat it. > > If anything WvW has had it's more PvE elements butchered over the years partly because of complaints by WvW players and the actual WvW experience has died because everyone would rather cap and recap, duel or solo roam than actually stage and fight big battles which is what the mode was designed for and what should be a regular occurance there. > > You can't blame Pver's and dev neglect for that.. that was all on you guys. > > > > WvW doesn't need to cater to Pver mentality but it does need to change and return to what WvW is supposed to be.. and everyone needs to adapt to that or just accept that WvW is never going to get any better. > > > > > > For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that kitten is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. > > > EotM did this, pvers did endless ktrains with all wvw rewards plus pve rewards, eotm died when rewards were nerfed. They dont step into wvw cause they hate the pvp part of wvw. This should be clear. Warclaw has nothing to do with this, considering that a lot of pvers got the mount and never reentered wvw. > > > > Yes I remember that time and all the awesome big battles I had due to the large number of players playing the game mode.. My favourite was when my server's army had a 35minute standoff with another, It was awesome even though we eventually lost it. > > Removing the rewards is connected in part to the butchering of PvE elements from a PvEvP game mode that I mentioned above, and that was largely to blame for such a population drop in the first place. > > You can't put that on Pve players because when the rewards stopped and the pver's left the WvW players continued the same cap and recap stuff only now it wasn't rewarding and became very boring because all the big battles which were the best part of WvW went away because the players now avoided them. > > > > > > WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. > > > I dont know which server you are in, but if you have a shortage of fights, move to a server that suits you better. Wvw has battles, of course it does, but every reset is plagued by lag, huge lag, making it unplayable. I have yet to hear about a server that doesnt fight, at least in EU. Eotm had that absence of battles, people avoided each other. > > > > Seafarers Rest, I used to get my battles often enough back in the day, not so much now though. > > Either my squad runs or theirs does. > > Only time I get any kind of battle is if a group of people decide to defend a location which is rare, usually they abandon it and just recap it later.. because it's more rewarding than defending. > > > > > > Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. > > > WvW is organized, comms ask for specific classes abd builds to maximize efficiency. Pvers cant change their mindset, play pve builds, die over and over, complain about wvw being toxic, leave. I play many hours of wvw each day, I keep seeing this every day. > > > > Yep been those kinds of squads too.. and they often avoid big skirmishes as well choosing only to engage if they know they will win. > > I've even had an instance where I've been following a huge squad and a huge enemy squad runs past.. we size each other up and then both squads just walk away because they don't want to fight each other.. I logged out after that and didn't come back to WvW until the Warclaw was released because it annoyed me so much. > > > > > > I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > > > > > > > If you dont like it, dont roam. Roaming has a special place in the way of denying supply, sneaky camp caps, distracting the enemy, cutting off reinforcements. Again, you cant tell people how to play. Yet you do. > > > > It does have a place, but not if everyone is doing it and having 1v1 duels.. > > Being forced into the role because nobody wants to do anything else is partly what is killing WvW. > > > > > > > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > > > > > > > > > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > > > > > > > > > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > > > > > > > > Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. > > > Again, pvers will only enter wvw if rewards are substantially buffed and pvp elements nerfed. > > > > Buffed rewards would help but so would WvW actually being WvW and not the pseudo PvP joke it's become. > > As I said most people who want to PvP go to PvP., and that's where they belong. > > WvW is for PvEvP and you guys treating it like PvP is part of the problem that's killing it. > > > > > > There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > > > > > > > Players hate content cause they hate seeing their toon die. > > > > That's just ridiculous, nobody would play the game if that was the case. > > > > > > > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > > > > > > > > > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > > > > > > > > I'm not arguing to "change" it. > > > > I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. > > > > > > > Fractals are Core content, too. Should we allow people to have HoT/PoF specs to "draw more people in"? Nope. > > > PoF has the strongest specs for wvw. The mount > > > It is accessible to those who wvw, provided they buy PoF. Everyone else doesnt need it. 7 PoF mounts are enough. "p2w" could apply as far as the specs are concerned, but... Warclaw? Really? > > > > Elite Specs don't replace core classes, they add to them and there are plenty of viable core builds that don't use elite specs. > > Mounts on the other hand create a huge mobility gap between players that have them and players that dont, in WvW where players need to stay together in large groups.. not having access to a mount because you don't have the expansion puts you at a massive disadvantage and practically forces you to solo roam which for a new player is the fastest way to kill their interest in WvW. > > If you don't think that is a problem then im inclined to believe that you simply don't want new players there in the first place. > > > > > > Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. > > > Its not fine. It ruined many wvw aspects, added to lag, while it catered to pvers not liking to get ganked. And thats why they announced they will nerf it even further. Rightly so. > > > > What WvW aspects would those be? do elaborate on your complaints because I don't have any. > > As for the lag.. I don't get it often but then I have a good Pc and a fast connection which is pretty much essential for a gamemode like WvW anyway. > > > > > > I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. > > > > > > > To you, a pver, it certainly is. To me, not really. I mentioned things above. > > > > Mostly a Pver, I can enjoy all game modes providing they are fun and WvW isn't fun in it's current state largely because there is no WvW in WvW and far too much PvP. > > > > > > The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. > > > You vastly underestimate roaming. > > > > No, im forced to do it almost every time I go there. > > It's boring and the only action it gives is solo capping or small pvp skirmishes which are far more enjoyable in actual PvP as that's what PvP is for in the first place. > > WvW is for big battles between armies of players and those big battles are a rarety in it. > > > > > > In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > > > > > > > It is a pvp map cause wvw is a... Mainly pvp mode. How is that surprising? > > > > It's PvEvP. > > > > > > > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things > > > > > > > > You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. > > > > Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. > > > > I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. > > > > > > > Imagine pvers waiting for a new living world episode for 2 years. Hah. > > > > We've been waiting for the next expansion for over 2 and probably will have to wait another year or 2 for it. > > I'm waiting on alliances just like you, you don't need to keep making salty jabs at content you have full access to but choose not to play. > > > > > > Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. > > > They dont play it cause, again, pvp isnt for everyone. > > > > Again it's not PvP it's PvEvP, they're not the same thing and they cater to different people. > > Some don't like WvW so the go to PvP. > > Some prefer to stay in PvE. > > And some don't care for PvP and want to exprience WvW as a WvW game mode not a pseudo PvP game mode which isn't fun to them. > > > > > > Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. > > > > > > > Players make metas, builds etc. Pvers play "however they want". They get farmed. People dont tag up anymore. Not surprising. > > > > Because a lot of the WvW commanders have given up and moved on.. largely because they got fed up with the state of WvW. > > This isn't Pvers fault it's WvW players fault. > > > > > > As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. > > > > WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. > > > > Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. > > > Because pve is their main target, which you fully agree with. Cant understand why youre baffled. > > > > That has nothing to do with it. > > The only way non skill splitting makse sense is if Gw2 was an open world PvEvP game in general.. but it's not. > > It has 3 disctinctly different game modes that should be balanced individually, it's more resources and time initially sure but it's also common sense and saves you far more trouble down the road. > > "wvw has too much pvp". There we have it. > Good day. WvW a PvEvP game mode has no PvE, no WvW and only really bad PvP due to elitist toxic players who think they own the gamemode but they also wonder why it's dead.. and can't accept the hard truth they are the reason. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 They should give back the bleeding stacks it used to do, but for PVE only. There. WvW mount throws PvE a bone. But yeah, it's mostly a WvW mount and I hope it's not rendered null in WvW with the coming changes. I don't see a problem with it since they added the dismount ability. Maybe give the dismount skill more range and let chain pull do a little more damage to doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I think what we really need to look at is why none of the mounts are even available in spvp, fractals or raids. I mean, if they're rebalancing the warclaw for wvw anyway . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should not have let it be useable in PvE, leading many to not really understand that its a pure wvw mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strongly disagree, if it were not usable in PvE Anet wouldn't have mady anywhere near the kind of money they did from Warclaw skins.. not to mention more recent packs include the Warclaw in them so if you unlocked a RNG warclaw skin players would be justifyably annoyed that they wasted money because they didn't have the mount nor want it because it's only usable in WvW and they don't like the gamemode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is primarily a WvW mount, everyone knows that.. but it is also serves a role as a default core world mount for players who do not want to rush ahead to PoF to unlock the Raptor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only restriction on it being that you need PoF to unlock the Warclaw which is something I strongly do not agree with, it should be made available to everyone without needing an expansion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would not only encourage people to come to WvW to get the mount but it will also encourage them to buy the expansions/PoF at least to unlock the better ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mounts are a PoF thing. That shouldnt change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, it is MUCH easier to unlock the raptor for a new player than warclaw, you should know that. Warclaw needs a whole reward track (pretty sure 8 hours for a new player in wvw will be absolute hell), plus a keep capture (which on many days is impossible, depending on matchup). Anet made a wvw-only useful mount (which wvwers didnt even ask for) . Pve has raptor, jackal, skimmer, bunny, Skyscale, Griffon, Beetle. Which place will a pve-updated warclaw fill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but you need the expansion and have to skip ahead to unlock the raptor and not everyone is ok with doing that. > > > > > > > > > > > If Warclaw were available to all as it should be since WvW is core game content it would function as a base mount and fix mobility problems in both WvW and PvE that often result in people without PoF being left out and unable to keep up with other players because they have no mounts. > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw won't remedy that entirely but it will help a lot and give players much more incentive to pick up PoF, it'll also function as a big non-expansion end game reward to persue that they can obtain and use on all new characters going forward to.. a big enticement for people to try/play WvW which currently they do not have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's simply no reason not to do this imo and many good reasons to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people cant be bothered to "skip ahead" and do minutes' worth of pve to get raptor, I am pretty confident they will have a LOT more trouble in a competitive mode, where gankers wait to oneshot those poor new players. No, warclaw shouldnt be free to get. It is primarily a wvw mount, mounts are a PoF exclusive thing. Wvw being a core mode has nothing to do with it. > > > > > > > > > > People should buy PoF if they want mounts, in the way they should buy HoT and/or PoF for their unique specs. Theyre cheap enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's got nothing to do with not being bothered to skip ahead.. people mainly don't do it becuase of story spoilers! > > > > > > > > > I played through the entirity of LW2, HoT and LW3 with a friend a little over a year back with him refusing to skip ahead because he didn't want to spoil the story for himself. > > > > > > > > > Saying people can't be bothered is just rude and insulting.. they put far more effort into refraining skipping ahead for their mounts than the single day of work I spent getting my Warclaw.. and I'm not a regular WvW player nor did I run any kind of meta or competative builds.. I got my Warclaw just fine with a PvE build and much of it was runing around alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want WvW to be better then you need more people playing it and to get more people playing it you need to incentivise them to play it.. otheriwse people are not going to waste their time on a gamemode they're constantly told is dying and full of elitist players that don't want them there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many pvers got warclaw. I was there during its release and the huge queues. Queues dropped. Pvers got their shiny and left. They arent playing wvw. No incentive there. Warclaw drove more wvwers away than it drew in. I cannot really understand why everything in this game has to cater to pve players, isnt like 95% of the content pve oriented? Cant wvw have its one, unique thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is YOUR opinion. Unless you will/should somehow dictate to everyone how they spend their time and money. God forbid they have fun in different modes > > > > > > > > > > That's not an opinion it's a fact, Devs invest in PvE far more than PvP and WvW because it where the vast majority of players are and what they want more of, it's where they make almost all of their money and PvE content is the biggest, continuous selling point of the game. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying you can't enjoy different game modes, I said it makes no sense why you'd buy or invest in a MMORPG if you limit yourself to an extremely small part of it's content. > > > > > > > > > That is precisely what you said: "Frankly if you buy a MMO exclusivley to play PvP that's like buying a car just to drive up and down a driveway.. or installing a game and only bothering with 1% of it's content.. that makes no sense at all." > > > > > > > > > > I didn't however say you couldn't do it as you're implying, only that it doesn't make sense to buy a game and dismiss the vast majority of it's content. > > > Most would agree that makes little to no sense, specially if you're paying money for it. > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of devs work on PvE stuff, wvw has... Half a dev, at best. Pvers wont magically love a competitive mode where their toon gets killed over and over, unless they can skip pvp. Numerous tips on how to get GoB without meeting enemies exist, eotm perma karma trains were just that, (cap and recap cycles with no fights), to name a few. The "elitist pvp/wvw" crowd had its own rules. People need to adapt to said gamemodes, not the other way around. > > > > > > > > > > Yes but if you want more dev attention then you need WvW to be more popular otherwise they are never going to justify wasting significant dev time on it.. that's my point. > > > > Dev attention means freebies for pvers? > > > > > > > No, actually, noone wants a mode changed to cater to pver mentality. And this has been proven time and again with the death of eotm when regular exp was removed and rewards were nerfed. If people enjoyed the pvp elements, they would have stayed cause that certainly didnt change. Guess what, everyone left. > > > > > > No it means a better game for everyone. > > > > > > You do realize WvW is based in a PVEVP setting right? It is NOT! pure PvP as duelists and solo roamers tend to treat it. > > > If anything WvW has had it's more PvE elements butchered over the years partly because of complaints by WvW players and the actual WvW experience has died because everyone would rather cap and recap, duel or solo roam than actually stage and fight big battles which is what the mode was designed for and what should be a regular occurance there. > > > You can't blame Pver's and dev neglect for that.. that was all on you guys. > > > > > > WvW doesn't need to cater to Pver mentality but it does need to change and return to what WvW is supposed to be.. and everyone needs to adapt to that or just accept that WvW is never going to get any better. > > > > > > > > For the record the cap and recap cycles with no fights are one of the biggest reasons I hated WvW for years.. that kitten is insufferably boring and completely mindnumbing. > > > > EotM did this, pvers did endless ktrains with all wvw rewards plus pve rewards, eotm died when rewards were nerfed. They dont step into wvw cause they hate the pvp part of wvw. This should be clear. Warclaw has nothing to do with this, considering that a lot of pvers got the mount and never reentered wvw. > > > > > > Yes I remember that time and all the awesome big battles I had due to the large number of players playing the game mode.. My favourite was when my server's army had a 35minute standoff with another, It was awesome even though we eventually lost it. > > > Removing the rewards is connected in part to the butchering of PvE elements from a PvEvP game mode that I mentioned above, and that was largely to blame for such a population drop in the first place. > > > You can't put that on Pve players because when the rewards stopped and the pver's left the WvW players continued the same cap and recap stuff only now it wasn't rewarding and became very boring because all the big battles which were the best part of WvW went away because the players now avoided them. > > > > > > > > WvW is supposed to be a place for big chaotic battles not avoiding them.. that's what most people want when they go there and the absense of them is what makes many of us leave. > > > > I dont know which server you are in, but if you have a shortage of fights, move to a server that suits you better. Wvw has battles, of course it does, but every reset is plagued by lag, huge lag, making it unplayable. I have yet to hear about a server that doesnt fight, at least in EU. Eotm had that absence of battles, people avoided each other. > > > > > > Seafarers Rest, I used to get my battles often enough back in the day, not so much now though. > > > Either my squad runs or theirs does. > > > Only time I get any kind of battle is if a group of people decide to defend a location which is rare, usually they abandon it and just recap it later.. because it's more rewarding than defending. > > > > > > > > Those battles can only exist as a result of players participating and organizing them.. if the WvW elites are not actively doing this then they are part of the problem that's killing the game mode. > > > > WvW is organized, comms ask for specific classes abd builds to maximize efficiency. Pvers cant change their mindset, play pve builds, die over and over, complain about wvw being toxic, leave. I play many hours of wvw each day, I keep seeing this every day. > > > > > > Yep been those kinds of squads too.. and they often avoid big skirmishes as well choosing only to engage if they know they will win. > > > I've even had an instance where I've been following a huge squad and a huge enemy squad runs past.. we size each other up and then both squads just walk away because they don't want to fight each other.. I logged out after that and didn't come back to WvW until the Warclaw was released because it annoyed me so much. > > > > > > > > I see far too much 1v1 nonsense and solo roaming popularity in WvW, roaming has a place but not if everyone would rather do it than form an army and actually go to war with another one.. that's what the game mode exists for. > > > > > > > > > If you dont like it, dont roam. Roaming has a special place in the way of denying supply, sneaky camp caps, distracting the enemy, cutting off reinforcements. Again, you cant tell people how to play. Yet you do. > > > > > > It does have a place, but not if everyone is doing it and having 1v1 duels.. > > > Being forced into the role because nobody wants to do anything else is partly what is killing WvW. > > > > > > > > > I urge you to see dev communicating and updated in wvw. Please tell me about what they changes how often those changes get implemented. Bugs still exist after 7 years of wvw, unfixed bugs. > > > > > > > > > > > It is ONE dev working on wvw and not even full time, at that. I am pretty confident this isnt slowing down pve development. Wvwers (surprise!) spend gems on cosmetics, transfers etc much like other players. > > > > > > > > > > > Pvers came to wvw when pips were introduced, saw they have to invest time and gear, and left just as fast. For the last time, you cannot make people like pvp. Unless they can skip it. > > > > > > > > > > Again, more dev attention requires more popular WvW which means you need more players. > > > > Again, pvers will only enter wvw if rewards are substantially buffed and pvp elements nerfed. > > > > > > Buffed rewards would help but so would WvW actually being WvW and not the pseudo PvP joke it's become. > > > As I said most people who want to PvP go to PvP., and that's where they belong. > > > WvW is for PvEvP and you guys treating it like PvP is part of the problem that's killing it. > > > > > > > > There's little the Devs can do to fix this when the thing that sells people on WvW is content that players have to create and participate in. > > > > > > > > > Players hate content cause they hate seeing their toon die. > > > > > > That's just ridiculous, nobody would play the game if that was the case. > > > > > > > > > So why change warclaw? Leave it as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > You dont even know what incentive you want."a better pve warclaw will make me like... Wvw,!" HOW? How will a mount which has 0 place in pve (plenty of other mounts) will make people like wvw? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not arguing to "change" it. > > > > > I'm arguing to make it far more accessable to everyone by removing the PoF requirement, thus making Warclaw serve as a genuine core game endgame reward for people to persue, a bigger incentive to more people to come to WvW to get it and fixing the mobility gap issue that currently exists in both PvE and WvW that is punishing people, turning them away from WvW and making them feel like Path of Fire is pay to win because of the exclusive mount access. > > > > > > > > > Fractals are Core content, too. Should we allow people to have HoT/PoF specs to "draw more people in"? Nope. > > > > PoF has the strongest specs for wvw. The mount > > > > It is accessible to those who wvw, provided they buy PoF. Everyone else doesnt need it. 7 PoF mounts are enough. "p2w" could apply as far as the specs are concerned, but... Warclaw? Really? > > > > > > Elite Specs don't replace core classes, they add to them and there are plenty of viable core builds that don't use elite specs. > > > Mounts on the other hand create a huge mobility gap between players that have them and players that dont, in WvW where players need to stay together in large groups.. not having access to a mount because you don't have the expansion puts you at a massive disadvantage and practically forces you to solo roam which for a new player is the fastest way to kill their interest in WvW. > > > If you don't think that is a problem then im inclined to believe that you simply don't want new players there in the first place. > > > > > > > > Warclaw as a mount is fine imo in both game modes and the only place it should be buffed or granted new abilities is in WvW and only WvW. > > > > Its not fine. It ruined many wvw aspects, added to lag, while it catered to pvers not liking to get ganked. And thats why they announced they will nerf it even further. Rightly so. > > > > > > What WvW aspects would those be? do elaborate on your complaints because I don't have any. > > > As for the lag.. I don't get it often but then I have a good Pc and a fast connection which is pretty much essential for a gamemode like WvW anyway. > > > > > > > > I maintain my stance that WvW is more enjoyable and less tedious since it's introduction but that is my opinion. > > > > > > > > > To you, a pver, it certainly is. To me, not really. I mentioned things above. > > > > > > Mostly a Pver, I can enjoy all game modes providing they are fun and WvW isn't fun in it's current state largely because there is no WvW in WvW and far too much PvP. > > > > > > > > The only incentive I need to play more WvW is for WvW to actually be a WvW game mode and feature WvW battles.. the absense of WvW content is what puts me off playing it and that's because players would rather solo roam or duel or run around capping and recapping instead of actually staging battles. > > > > You vastly underestimate roaming. > > > > > > No, im forced to do it almost every time I go there. > > > It's boring and the only action it gives is solo capping or small pvp skirmishes which are far more enjoyable in actual PvP as that's what PvP is for in the first place. > > > WvW is for big battles between armies of players and those big battles are a rarety in it. > > > > > > > > In it's current form WvW is far more like a giant PvP map.. if I want to duel people then I'll go to PvP, I go to WvW for the Warzone which rarely ever exists. > > > > > > > > > It is a pvp map cause wvw is a... Mainly pvp mode. How is that surprising? > > > > > > It's PvEvP. > > > > > > > > > No big investments have been made to wvw, if you were even remotely aware, that is. Alliances, for example, were annnounced years ago. See how that worked out to this day. Balance has been neglected for years. Powercreep pve raids brought ruined wvw, among other things > > > > > > > > > > You got 2 new maps and everyone complained about them.. personally I like Desert borderlands and EOTM, at least a lot more than the standard Borderlands map which is mindnumbingly boring to play on after so many years.. I would gladly see the dupicate maps replaced with new ones. > > > > > Alliances is something im very much looking forward to as well yet no matter how many times the devs say it will be done when it's done all I ever see are people complaining about it. > > > > > I knew it would be a long wait and im still waiting too. > > > > > > > > > Imagine pvers waiting for a new living world episode for 2 years. Hah. > > > > > > We've been waiting for the next expansion for over 2 and probably will have to wait another year or 2 for it. > > > I'm waiting on alliances just like you, you don't need to keep making salty jabs at content you have full access to but choose not to play. > > > > > > > > Again though these issues come down to dev time and that is something they are not going to waste on a gamemode that most people don't play and there is very little they can do to make it more fun. > > > > They dont play it cause, again, pvp isnt for everyone. > > > > > > Again it's not PvP it's PvEvP, they're not the same thing and they cater to different people. > > > Some don't like WvW so the go to PvP. > > > Some prefer to stay in PvE. > > > And some don't care for PvP and want to exprience WvW as a WvW game mode not a pseudo PvP game mode which isn't fun to them. > > > > > > > > Players make the battles and the battles are the content.. so it falls on players to make WvW fun not the devs and that's where so much has gone wrong imo as many players have done the opposite and made WvW a very boring and un-fun place instead. > > > > > > > > > Players make metas, builds etc. Pvers play "however they want". They get farmed. People dont tag up anymore. Not surprising. > > > > > > Because a lot of the WvW commanders have given up and moved on.. largely because they got fed up with the state of WvW. > > > This isn't Pvers fault it's WvW players fault. > > > > > > > > As for Powercreep and balance issues.. I have been fully 100% behind splitting all skills/traits in every game mode since Gw2 was released 7 years ago. > > > > > WvW, PvP and PvE balancing conflicts have always been a massive pain in the kitten since the game came out.. what works in one doesnt in others, fix a balance problem in one and break it in others it's an absolute disaster. > > > > > Each mode should be split and balanced individually to suit that game mode, that is just basic common sense and it baffles me why the devs still havent fully done this. > > > > Because pve is their main target, which you fully agree with. Cant understand why youre baffled. > > > > > > That has nothing to do with it. > > > The only way non skill splitting makse sense is if Gw2 was an open world PvEvP game in general.. but it's not. > > > It has 3 disctinctly different game modes that should be balanced individually, it's more resources and time initially sure but it's also common sense and saves you far more trouble down the road. > > > > "wvw has too much pvp". There we have it. > > Good day. > > WvW a PvEvP game mode has no PvE, no WvW and only really bad PvP due to elitist toxic players who think they own the gamemode but they also wonder why it's dead.. and can't accept the hard truth they are the reason. > > Good day. "World versus World (also known as WvW, and sometimes referred to in-universe as the Mist War) is a combination Player versus Player/Player versus Environment game mode where players from three different worlds (which can involve 6+ servers), battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several dozen players per map. In World versus World, players can besiege objectives such as Keeps and Towers with siege weapons, and battle over resources, as well as complete other PvE-type content to win World Experience for themselves." Plenty of pve, I think. Cap structures, and other objectives. On a side note, sfr have blobs throughout the day. Unless you share the" i need a comm to play otherwise ded gaem" Elitist, toxic players exist in all modes. Toxic casuals exist in all modes, too, in many forms. The" bad pvp" is something i cant understand, maybe you want to elaborate on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > Greedy pve player wants more goodies not sure how to feel about this considering wvw players beg for things and when things are given to them they rage about it... and ask for it to be removed. Then wonder why they dont get anything in the very next breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > its A WvW Mount. > > It’s why it is completely low tier compared to ANY Mount in PvE. > > Use it in WvW. All the bells and whistles are there. Where they should be. It could be a headbutt KB mount on pve on skill one... even on wvw would be better than the lame aoe down kill. Stamina bar would take 20seconds with one rush dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Warclaw has no reason to be a mount outside of its intended use in wvw, so nah. There are enough mounts in pve already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 It's a WvW mount, It has no use in PvE.. if you want to use it for it's uses go to WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game of Bones.8975 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 If PvE had 1 or 2 mounts, I would agree. Make the Warclaw more applicable to the open world scenarios, but we already have mounts for each mode of travel (except underwater). It may look cool, but has no niche with current abilities in PvE. Edit: if anything I would modify PvE mounts for WvW usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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