Dagger storm is joke when comparing to tornado - buff ideas.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> >

> > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

>

> Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

 

How the heck, a skill that barely got changed since like 2016 is now OP? What is wrong with you? People use it to interrupt stomps/resses at most, barely seen anyone use it beyond that and you call it op? Get your facts straight, dmg is non-existant compared to other transform elites like Rampage or Lich, CC is the only thing it's somehow "so-so" compared to some other classes that can spam them(waving at hammer warrior). Perma stab, like, what? Every Transform skill have pulsing "perma stab", UNIMAGINABLE!

How someone can even compare Dagger Storm to Tornado is beyond me.

One of the weakest elite skills among elite skills since 2012 that barely has any use now is called "op", hilarious.

[XECOR.2814]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> > >

> > > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

> >

> > Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

>

> How the heck, a skill that barely got changed since like 2016 is now OP? What is wrong with you? People use it to interrupt stomps/resses at most, barely seen anyone use it beyond that and you call it op? Get your facts straight, dmg is non-existant compared to other transform elites like Rampage or Lich, CC is the only thing it's somehow "so-so" compared to some other classes that can spam them(waving at hammer warrior). Perma stab, like, what? Every Transform skill have pulsing "perma stab", UNIMAGINABLE!

> How someone can even compare Dagger Storm to Tornado is beyond me.

> One of the weakest elite skills among elite skills since 2012 that barely has any use now is called "op", hilarious.

 

You have no idea what you are talking abt. Try playing the game first.

[wasss.1208]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> -Reduce cooldown to 60s

> -Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s

> -Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)

> -Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

 

This would make the skill a: 60 second cooldown, 8x1 second long pulsing stun (8 seconds in total, since you want it to stack in duration), which also damages, and gives 5 seconds of evade to the thief. The only counterplay would be wards (there are 7 wards in total in spvp, majority of them never really seen use, and are on unviable weapons/utilities.), or loading the thief with conditions _before_ they use this skill. I make a hard assumption, and say that the skill you want to make would be the most broken skill in the games history.

 

This would also make Basilisk Venom useless. Why would anyone pick that, over this?

 

Sources: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Fires up to 8 daggers, at a rate of about one per 0.34 seconds"

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ward - wards

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom - for reference

 

 

Also your whole argument is "Dagger storm is joke when comparing to tornado". You can't compare skills 1:1 in vacuum. You have to look at whole builds, see what they can do, what they are good at, what is their weaknesses, and so on...

 

[DonNee.5128]

id say give it psn and launch so u can truly counter glyph now

[LazySummer.2568]

all these terribad thieves should just come clean and say they need a nuke button that'll auto win the game for them when pressed, usable pre-match.

[Babylon.8972]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> all these terribad thieves should just come clean and say they need a nuke button that'll auto win the game for them when pressed, usable pre-match.

 

This post was made by

-rev

-holo

-necro

[Babylon.8972]

> @"zarcon.7820" said:

> > @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > > @"zarcon.7820" said:

> > > All thiefs elite skills are super bad

> >

> > Every other class have even 1 decent useful elite, but thief have 0. Just joke tier elites. I would pay a lot to swap my elites with engineer.

>

> Here is what I would like to see to balance thief out with other classes.

>

> 1: tripple the BLIND pulsing on BLINDING POWDER as it was yeaRs ago. Literally every class has gained aoe in the recent years. It is inpossible for thief to compete with this now. They get killed to easily.

>

> 2: Make DJ on DEADEYE unblockable. There is more reflection then ever.

>

> 3: Steal is okay. However I think mug should be made baseline.

>

> 4: Remove the cooldown of backstab. Its stupid and I have no clue why this is in the first place also dmg is garbage. But this is due to the bunker meta were stuck in for years.

>

> 5: Remove the binding at the start of heartseeker. Rn it locks you from movement. It feels buggy.

>

> 6: Make basilisk venom and heal venom instant. So it goes in par with the other venoms.

>

> Anything I missed?

 

Those are actually very good implementions, would like to point out devs to see this and take a hint.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> > >

> > > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

> >

> > Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

>

> How the heck, a skill that barely got changed since like 2016 is now OP? What is wrong with you? People use it to interrupt stomps/resses at most, barely seen anyone use it beyond that and you call it op? Get your facts straight, dmg is non-existant compared to other transform elites like Rampage or Lich, CC is the only thing it's somehow "so-so" compared to some other classes that can spam them(waving at hammer warrior). Perma stab, like, what? Every Transform skill have pulsing "perma stab", UNIMAGINABLE!

> How someone can even compare Dagger Storm to Tornado is beyond me.

> One of the weakest elite skills among elite skills since 2012 that barely has any use now is called "op", hilarious.

 

If you pair tornado with LR, you can wipe entire teamfights with it. Pair it with an already CC heavy ele build, and by the time you use your elite the enemy is likely out of cooldowns or tools to focus/booncorrupt you. If it' used correctly, tornado can be insanely strong.

 

So yeah it's a good skill. Might need some shave even(or LR does, the interaction between the skill and the trait is stoinks). But I also agree that comparing it to Dagger Storm is dumb. They are different skills, they dont need to match in powerlevel or function.

[Leonidrex.5649]

What the fuck am I reading.

If you think dagger strom is bad then you dont even know how it works, its 90s cd, 3s evade. with movespeed boost, that constantly applies cripple, and bleed.

And if used properly it also deals 3.0 ??? if I remember right, coof damage -> to put it into perspective, 3 clone in melee range F1 shatter deals LESS damage then dagger storm in melee range. Oh it also reflects!.

 

Summing up the skill.

1 -> 3s evade.

2 -> Medicore cooldown of 90s. ( 72s traited )

3 -> 3s of projectile reflection

4 -> 4x whirl finisher that will fire 12 projectiles if used in a field ( hint hint, 12 blinds flying in random direction fun fun fun )

5 -> one of the biggest damage dealing skills in the entire game, cloaking at ( googled it ) 3.2 coof damage ( this is more then pre nerf grenade barrage )

 

@"zarcon.7820" Right now thief is one of, if not the strongest classes in the game.

Thief is MANDATORY in every pvp team comp. IF you want those buffs you better be ready to give up arm or leg for them, what are you willing to give up? lets talk about it.

 

EDIT

I used daggerstorm against heavy golem

1 NO MIGHT AT ALL

2 NO VULNERABILITY AT ALL

3 NO LEAD ATTACK STACKS AT ALL

Total hits -> 6

Bleed damage -> 846

Cripple duration -> 12s

Power damage -> 2700

Total value

3s evade

3s reflect

2700 power damage

850 condi damage

12s cripple

3s 100% movespeed bonus

Edit 2

after using just steal before daggerstorm, it did 5k damage to the golem ( still no lead attacks or any vulnerabilit )

It was also used on the bullshit full utility thief build that takes 0 damage traits in the first place.

If you want to deal damage as thief take traits that give damage, instead of going full utility and asking for buffs to skills that hit like a truck already.

 

[Highlie.7641]

 

 

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> Ok, but then also remove the evade from dagger storm and replace it with pulsing stability so that we can burst down a thief that is using daggerstorm.

 

Sure sounds good, they should also remove the limit on the amount of projectiles that can hit a single target....

 

And it's exactly like it used to be in 2012. Glorious.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.

> I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

>

> -Reduce cooldown to 60s

> -Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s

> -Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)

> -Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

>

> If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

 

Eh theyre completely diff skills. Elite thief skill,i cant immob him with projectiles. Tornado,i can just immob him from range and be fine. Thief reflects,Tornado doesnt. You shouldnt even compare the two as theyre completely different. Neither needs a nerf or buff.

 

How is an Elite that reflects and ignores projectiles,while upclose doing crazy damage needs a buff ? Come on now. They dont need any of the suggestions you provided because dagger storm is viable as it is.

[otto.5684]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> >

> > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

>

> Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

 

Does it provide 3 sec evade? No. You could argue it is an over performing skill. However, comparing it to thiefs dagger storm has no relevance.

 

[Shao.7236]

Comparisons that makes no sense, Daggerstorm was never used until it's gotten an evade. Now that all people use unless they're condition. All Thief elites have a particular purpose and that's how you know they are mostly balanced even when DS can actually camp a node for 3 extra seconds safely while nothing else can, there is little wards in the game to stop them as well.

[wevh.2903]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

>

> The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

 

Imagine thinking preventing a ress is not a important thing , ele tornado had low cd and lot of utility

[mortrialus.3062]

If anything dagger storm should get nerfed to remove the stupid RNG projectiles. The melee damage on top of the reflection and evade is already enough to make it an extremely excellent elite skill.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lmao so necros elite 6k autos are cool ,tornado and so on but daggeratorm current form isnt, man these forums are priceless. DS is fine as is.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> If anything dagger storm should get nerfed to remove the stupid RNG projectiles. The melee damage on top of the reflection and evade is already enough to make it an extremely excellent elite skill.

 

It doesnt have melee damage. Its damage exclusively comes from the daggers.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > If anything dagger storm should get nerfed to remove the stupid RNG projectiles. The melee damage on top of the reflection and evade is already enough to make it an extremely excellent elite skill.

>

> It doesnt have melee damage. Its damage exclusively comes from the daggers.

 

It should just be a point blank AoE. It's stupid that the 3 second evade will randomly hit you and cripple you from 900 units with some of the least visible projectiles in the entire game.

[Supreme.3164]

> @"wevh.2903" said:

> > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> >

> > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

>

> Imagine thinking preventing a ress is not a important thing , ele tornado had low cd and lot of utility

 

Even a simple chocking gas can do that....or a chaotic release...or a rampage....a gravity well.....a thunderclap....a "chilled to the bones"...an elite that is as good as an weapon skill without further benefits....it's not a good elite

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > @"zarcon.7820" said:

> > All thiefs elite skills are super bad

>

> Every other class have even 1 decent useful elite, but thief have 0. Just joke tier elites. I would pay a lot to swap my elites with engineer.

 

Not true. Every elite Thief has except for uppercut is good/viable, even thieves guild. Uppercut isn't even **bad**, it's just too situational as it stands to be as viable as the others.

 

That being said-

 

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > all these terribad thieves should just come clean and say they need a nuke button that'll auto win the game for them when pressed, usable pre-match.

>

> This post was made by

> -rev

> -holo

> -necro

 

This is true.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> I main thief. I think daggerstorm is unfun to fight and too simple and effective to use.'

 

Easy there, it's a 3 second evade, not a build or game winner.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"zarcon.7820" Right now thief is one of, if not the strongest classes in the game.

>

 

hate it when people say that..

 

so lets just say i got to do balance and i remove shortbow 5 (i know theres more to remove to completely remove thief from the game)

now i ask again is thief the strongest class still?

no right its probably the most useless class out there right? thief used to do dmglike a shiro rev thief is nerfed into ground on all points beside mobility.

so ye is thief really strong or just fast decap bot and +1 bot and beside all that pretty much useless.

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > If anything dagger storm should get nerfed to remove the stupid RNG projectiles. The melee damage on top of the reflection and evade is already enough to make it an extremely excellent elite skill.

> >

> > It doesnt have melee damage. Its damage exclusively comes from the daggers.

>

> It should just be a point blank AoE. It's stupid that the 3 second evade will randomly hit you and cripple you from 900 units with some of the least visible projectiles in the entire game.

 

It would have to have its damage buffed up pretty significantly to compensate then. Not that I disagree that the skill is quite unreadable.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > If anything dagger storm should get nerfed to remove the stupid RNG projectiles. The melee damage on top of the reflection and evade is already enough to make it an extremely excellent elite skill.

> > >

> > > It doesnt have melee damage. Its damage exclusively comes from the daggers.

> >

> > It should just be a point blank AoE. It's stupid that the 3 second evade will randomly hit you and cripple you from 900 units with some of the least visible projectiles in the entire game.

>

> It would have to have its damage buffed up pretty significantly to compensate then. Not that I disagree that the skill is quite unreadable.

 

It doesn't need buffs. It's already plenty strong as a 3 second evade with projectile reflection with decent easy damage to boot.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"zarcon.7820" Right now thief is one of, if not the strongest classes in the game.

> >

>

> hate it when people say that..

>

> so lets just say i got to do balance and i remove shortbow 5 (i know theres more to remove to completely remove thief from the game)

> now i ask again is thief the strongest class still?

> no right its probably the most useless class out there right? thief used to do dmglike a shiro rev thief is nerfed into ground on all points beside mobility.

> so ye is thief really strong or just fast decap bot and +1 bot and beside all that pretty much useless.

>

 

every class that loses crucial part of their kit becomes shit, but even without sb 5 I still think thief would be viable.

Its like saying that holo isnt OP cuz if you remove shield 5 they will be easy to kill... yes, they would be. But they have shield 5 so they are not easy to kill.